heaven knows this is something we all try to do, but sometimes, as in thematter i am going to ask your help on, things escalate to a point where bad stuff happens...........when i told michael in the politest, kindest possible terms that i would notbe happy if he moved into the apartment in my building, and that i really really did not want him to, he went absolutely BALLISTIC.....called me every name in the book, told me how selfish i am, how ungrateful i am(for what i dont know)...and on and on.........i must digress now: i have been in a relationship w a married guy for 20years....he is 10 years younger than i am.......we care about each othervery much, and tho we are not particularly sexual after all this time,we are --if not in love--certainly in a deeply lovING relationship, we MATTER to each other..........does his wife know? he says no, i feelshe must...or if not, they have some sort of arrangement.......back to michael........at one completely insane moment, i told michaelabout my relationship w. ken.......and michael is so angry at me aboutthe apartment, he is, in his own words, "thinking about calling ken's wife".as you can imagine, i am beyond beyond, and as i sit here with thetears rolling down my cheeks and onto the keyboard, i am terrified andwonder what to do.......i am so hoping you will be able to advise....re ken: do i say nothing and hope that michael wont fulfill his threat?do i call ken and tell him him that this crazy person is threatening toexpose us to the wife? do i call ken and tell him that this crazy person who is seeking revenge is telling lies about me to everyone?do i write to michael and apologise for making his life so miserable?would it make any difference if i did? probably not.....should i jump out the window? no, i live on the ground floor and the best i'd..get is a sprained ankle...i am grateful for your thoughts...sashaa very sad person.......
when i told michael in the politest, kindest possible terms that i would notbe happy if he moved into the apartment in my building, and that i really really did not want him to, Good for you -- you stood up for what was the best solution for yourself and likely for him as well.he went absolutely BALLISTIC.....called me every name in the book, told me how selfish i am, how ungrateful i am(for what i dont know)...and on and on.........Oh dear -- I am so sorry. This guy is total bad news. He had a track record of seeing the older women in his life "turn mean" and the fault is with him. If not this, then something else would make him turn on you eventually. I am very sorry.back to michael........at one completely insane moment, i told michaelabout my relationship w. ken.......and michael is so angry at me aboutthe apartment, he is, in his own words, "thinking about calling ken's wife".Well, this is awful. What is he trying to prove? Is he thinking that threatening you will make you closer to him? This guy (michael) is unhinged and no sort of adult much less a gentleman.re ken: do i say nothing and hope that michael wont fulfill his threat?do i call ken and tell him him that this crazy person is threatening toexpose us to the wife? do i call ken and tell him that this crazy person who is seeking revenge is telling lies about me to everyone?Tough question -- my first impulse was to say "don't do anything" and this crazy person will eventually move on. But perhaps alerting ken wouldn't be a bad thing. If you point out this person's history: mom was "mean", each girlfriend "turns mean", since you have crossed him now you are "mean" and he has gone crazy.do i write to michael and apologise for making his life so miserable?NONONONONONONONONONOOOOOOOOOO!!!!YOU DIDN'T MAKE HIS LIFE MISERABLE! HE has built his own miserable life and is trying to mess with you and those around you. Do you want this person -- who is starting to show his true colors -- living in your building? Do you want to continue a relationship with him?would it make any difference if i did? probably not.....You would be appeasing the blackmailer if you apologize. Even if it isn't literal blackmail, he is threatening to make you miserable and harm your other relationships to -- what -- get back at you? Get you back in his life? Get the apartment after all? Do you want to give him control over you?If you did apologize to him, then what next? Would he demand to move into the apartment? That would be a disaster for you -- he knows how to play upon your (unjustified) guilt to get what he wants, no matter how unreasonable or damaging to you.should i jump out the window? No, of course not. He may be able to get *your* apartment then! : )There's a wise piece of advice that I have heard applied to very stressful situations (like being laid off, relationship breakup, etc.). The advice is "Don't do anything right away." Basically you should sit back, take a deep breath, take another deep breath, (don't forget to keep breathing), find a sense of calm, and rationally think about the possible actions (or non-actions) which are open to you. If you act right away, you will likely be following impulse or emotions. If you think you can prevent the blackmail (which is what this is) by acting, then talk to ken and leave that part in his hands. If I were you, I would either cut off all communication with michael or keep it cold and unemotional (if you can). If you can't then it may be better to cut him off -- do you still want a relationship with him? You may think you can "fix him" -- you can't. You may think you can "help him" -- you can'tYou may think you can make him happy and satisfied with his life -- you can't.The only person that can do those things for him is michael. But he could drag you down into his messy, delusional life, and you don't deserve that.
I think Rael's advice is very wise. In addition, I would suggest seeking professional counseling if you haven't already done so. You are frankly in a mess, and unknown non-professionals on a message board can give you only so much insight. Probably a real pro who really knows you could help you more. I certainly don't think I would want to handle this situation by myself!And please don't think I'm being judgmental, but you are definitely not following the Golden Rule by being in a relationship with a married man. I once heard it said that if anyone is in a relationship that needs to be kept secret, then that person should not be in that relationship. I do realize that it's a little late to be talking about that right now, and your more immediate problem is dealing with Michael. So I do hope you get help!
You are dating a married man??? Yet you are a frequent poster for advice on ethics? No wonder you don't know what is ethical and what isn't. Sorry to be mean, but you need to reevaluate the DAILY decisions you make. Ethics just isn't about how to deal with the person you don't like who has been fired. It's about having character yourself and making decisions that you can be proud of.I can't even take the time to comment on the rest of your post because to me, you have a much bigger issue to deal with than someone getting made at you because you spoke your mind.
((((Sasha))))Rael gave excellent advice. Here's my suggestion on the matter and I hope you can take her advice, mine and work this mess out.First: You did noting wrong by telling Michael that you weren't comfortable having him live in your building, however, I can totally see that he is now using this information to try to emotionally blackmail you. And yes, it is blackmail. Not even going to give it the pretty name of extortion!Second: You need to let Ken know what Michael threatened. This is damage control. Ken can decide what to tell his wife. If his wife has truly turned a blind eye to a 20 yr affair, then I would imagine that she is already well aware of the situation and for the choice of comfort and financial stability she allows it to continue without saying anything to Ken. Ken needs to decide if this is the time to come clean about it or if he's going to try additional cover-up i.e. "You won't believe what Sasha's ex is saying about her! He's claiming she's having an affair with me!" I'm not suggesting that covering it up is the right way to go, but his wife doesn't need or deserve further humiliation in this situation.Third: Get into counseling, like now! My daughter has an ex, the father of her second daughter, who pulls this kind of crap with her all the time. Every little thing she's ever confided to him becomes a weapon to use against her. She finally got into counseling and has realized that sometimes the worst thing that can happen is not actually as bad as what we fear. She's beginning to stand up for herself with him and while he rages on and threatens, she's learned that sometimes you just have to suck it up and call their bluff. It has helped her immensely to know that her counselor is just a phone call away when things are getting tough.Ironically, his name is Michael also. He's a charming, nice looking man who has so far spent the majority of his life blaming other people for his mistakes. He even took it so far as to blame his parole officer when he tested dirty for drugs "Well, if she didn't make me feel so bad about doing drugs, I wouldn't feel so stressed and I wouldn't smoke." Really??Sasha, I won't make a judgement on your relationship with Ken. I do hope that when the dust settles, you'll find yourself in a peaceful place in your life with someone you love who truly loves you.LWW
thank you.re michael: i received a very nice email this morning telling me hewould never tell my 'secret'......i am very grateful...re ken: we never really know about another person's needs/problems orWHY.....the 'AFFAIR' is mostly historical.....we have lunch or dinneronce a week, and are close, warm friends who help each other survive...she is rarely there...he needs someone to care about him...i do...it's almost as if he has 2 wives......one of us is never around, theother is, divorce is out of the question..and as i said, the 'affair'is mostly historical, but the warm, loving, kindness still exists...given his particular circumstances, i dont feel it is unethical..thank you all.sasha
This is total BS. It's like a script out of a soap opera.rad
re michael: i received a very nice email this morning telling me hewould never tell my 'secret'......i am very grateful...How long do you think it will be before he blows up at you again? The next time he feels thwarted? The next time you speak your mind and he doesn't agree?
THANK YOU RAEL for your kindness, your sagacity, and for not beingjudgemental. you cant know how much i appreciate you.sasha
and thank you to LWW and all the rest of you....even RAD......if we cant be honest here, then where....sasha
heavens forbid we be judgemental on an ethics board...
DEAR L.....you are always so wise, so balanced........i thank you for your kindwish for me....maybe it will come true.....meanwhile, your constantthoughtfulness continues to amaze me.....your message brought tearsto my eyes.thank you....sash
You're welcome. Always here for you my dear:0)LWW
given his particular circumstances, i dont feel it is unethical..You sound like a nice person, but I am fairly sure every person having an affair with a married man/woman would say the same thing about themselves - that THEIR particular situation was different from all those other affairs that one hears about. That THEY had true and deep reasons why it's right and not unethical. An affair without full consent of all parties and agreement as to ground rules - including the wife - is in fact not ethical. It may be emotionally good for one or the other of you. Or not. But ethical? No.
It sounds to me like your relationship with Ken is now along the lines of a solid, supportive friendship. IMO, there's nothing wrong with that, and you've known forever that divorce is not an option.My first thought when I read your OP was that Michael's true colors have shown up. His blow-up felt very abusive and way over the top to me. I think you are very wise not to want this man living so close to you.I also was wondering -- does he know who Ken is? Does he know Ken's last name or enough information about him that he could actually track him down and contact him? If not, then certainly don't worry.Like others have said, his wife probably knows about you, so it wouldn't be an issue if Michael did call her.Maybe one of the lessons in all this is to not divulge too much information to someone you don't know well. Certainly, in a relationship, it's important to be honest about seeing other people, but it may not be necessary to divulge information about that person.
loving.......no, he doesnt know ken's last name.......but he knows who the wife is...she is a celebrity....and boy, are you ever right! a major lesson in all this is not tospill everything i know....and my greatest fear is that KEN wouldknow i couldn't keep my mouth shut...that would end it, i think.s
Sasha,One thing I have learned is that sometimes it is better to say nothing.Or at least, not everything.Having an open conversation w Michael was probably good. You at least made your point clear.His reaction, of anger, causing harm for Ken, accusing you of putting your interests over his, reveals a lot about Him. Please think carefully about what you have learned here, inspite of or despite what you feel for him.I would have some sort of conversation with Ken, just to forewarn him what may occur. And this must be delicatly approached also.jCplease don't jump out the window. You will trash the flower bed and tear and soil your clothes, really not worth losing a nice outfit. ;-)
jC....you are so sweet.....i had lunch w (dare i say it) ken today and toldhim that my trainer was furious w me for kibashing the apartmentthing, and was making all kinds of crazy and scary threats, and thati was nervous and had all the locks changed.....that's as far as i wasprepared to go.........it was a beginning...he is a good and gentle man....you would like him.thank you for your concern...yrs,sasha