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Author: mawhinney Three stars, 500 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 19256  
Subject: foreign Electronic transfer $$ Date: 3/2/2007 2:45 PM
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We may be sellng a boat to someone living in a foreign country. We will not release title until funds are received. We will set up a separate account to receive the funds. Having never done this before I am trying to figure out the best and safest way to handle an electronic transfer of funds. Suggestions & recommendations would be appreciated.

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Author: TMFPMarti Big funky green star, 20000 posts Home Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 11165 of 19256
Subject: Re: foreign Electronic transfer $$ Date: 3/2/2007 3:26 PM
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We may be sellng a boat to someone living in a foreign country. We will not release title until funds are received. We will set up a separate account to receive the funds. Having never done this before I am trying to figure out the best and safest way to handle an electronic transfer of funds.

No insult intended, but do remember that international funds transfer scams related to purported sales of property are the new Nigerian widow. Be careful out there, and talk to your banker for guidance.

I'd say the separate account is definitely a good idea.

Phil

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Author: NewPenny Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 11166 of 19256
Subject: Re: foreign Electronic transfer $$ Date: 3/2/2007 3:27 PM
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<< We may be sellng a boat to someone living in a foreign country. We will not release title until funds are received. We will set up a separate account to receive the funds. Having never done this before I am trying to figure out the best and safest way to handle an electronic transfer of funds. Suggestions & recommendations would be appreciated. >>


Does PayPal handle international transactions?

People all around the world are using this on eBay.


Penny

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Author: theHedgehog Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 11167 of 19256
Subject: Re: foreign Electronic transfer $$ Date: 3/2/2007 3:36 PM
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You don't list any particulars, but my scamdar is going off like crazy. Be very wary if you get an offer to send you a money order or cashiers check for more than the amount of the boat, where you have to send the excess to someone local.

As to international transfers, what about good old Western Union? If they really intend to do the deal, they should be willing to do Western Union. It looks like Wells Fargo and I would guess American Express also offer this service.

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Author: theHedgehog Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 11169 of 19256
Subject: Re: foreign Electronic transfer $$ Date: 3/2/2007 3:38 PM
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I'd say the separate account is definitely a good idea.

If it's a scam that involves loss of money in the account, you can be sure that the bank won't quietly take the loss. In fact, the feds might even come after you as a participant in a banking crime. A separate account might be helpful, but it won't protect you from any monetary losses.

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Author: mawhinney Three stars, 500 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 11173 of 19256
Subject: Re: foreign Electronic transfer $$ Date: 3/2/2007 5:14 PM
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I immediately wondered if the proposed sale might be a scam so I'm trying to be very careful. Won't release the boat title or the boat until the money is safely in a new account opened just to receive the funds. The buyer is arranging for the boat transport to Europe. From what I've learned it is far less expensive to buy a boat in the US & pay all the transport costs than it is to purchase one in Europe.

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Author: MichaelRead Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Winner! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 11174 of 19256
Subject: Re: foreign Electronic transfer $$ Date: 3/2/2007 11:27 PM
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We may be selling a boat to someone living in a foreign country. We will not release title until funds are received. We will set up a separate account to receive the funds. Having never done this before I am trying to figure out the best and safest way to handle an electronic transfer of funds. Suggestions & recommendations would be appreciated.

Mawhinney


WARNING!! This may be a scam. Here's how it works: they send to a check for more than the boat's cost asking you to forward the difference. You deposit their check and you send them the several thousand dollars difference yet, when the check finally gets its time through the banking system, it will not clear. You will be out the money you sent the supposed 'buyer'.

Beware if the buyer suggests using Western Union or similar. If he does then you will know it's a scam.

Suggest they do the following: wire transfer the funds to an account you set up with a reputable foreign exchange broker who will then transfer the converted funds into your bank account. If they demur, again it's a scam.

MichaelR,

President,
Brigantine Marine Group Inc.,
Langley, BC, Canada.




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Author: theHedgehog Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 11175 of 19256
Subject: Re: foreign Electronic transfer $$ Date: 3/2/2007 11:43 PM
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Beware if the buyer suggests using Western Union or similar. If he does then you will know it's a scam.

I believe that the Western Union scam is a seller's scam (never receive goods) rather than a buyer's scam (receive rubber check). I can't believe that Western Union would stay in business if there was a way to send rubber funds.

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Author: MichaelRead Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Winner! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 11176 of 19256
Subject: Re: foreign Electronic transfer $$ Date: 3/2/2007 11:55 PM
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I immediately wondered if the proposed sale might be a scam so I'm trying to be very careful. Won't release the boat title or the boat until the money is safely in a new account opened just to receive the funds. The buyer is arranging for the boat transport to Europe. From what I've learned it is far less expensive to buy a boat in the US & pay all the transport costs than it is to purchase one in Europe.

Mawhinney


Actually, when a foreign boat is imported into Europe, to get registration all appropriate consumption taxes and import imposts must be paid. These import costs do not have to be paid if the boat is purchased locally. Also, unless the boat is already certified by the foreign country as acceptable (EPA, CARB emission standards equivalent) and meets all local safety standards (different than our Coast Guard ratings), it is not allowed into the country. It is far cheaper to buy a boat in Europe than have one imported.

Note one thing: this is a personal transaction and not done through a boat broker (who would expedite by knowing all taxation and other paperwork). That should alone cause alarm bells to ring. And I'll bet they met your asking price with nary a haggle. That's another alarm bell.

We've had several boaters here in BC burned in this scam. As one poster has already written, this is the marine version of the Nigerian scam. A tip: call your local BBB and ask if they've had any information on boats in your area approached by a foreign buyer.

We found that those scammed all had advertised their boats in Boating Journal. Somehow the scammers got hold of a copy and mined it for, well, suckers.

In all honesty I wouldn't touch this one with a ten-foot barge pole.

MichaelR

President,
Brigantine Marine Group, Inc.,
Langley, BC


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Author: MichaelRead Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Winner! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 11177 of 19256
Subject: Re: foreign Electronic transfer $$ Date: 3/3/2007 12:16 AM
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Beware if the buyer suggests using Western Union or similar. If he does then you will know it's a scam.

I believe that the Western Union scam is a seller's scam (never receive goods) rather than a buyer's scam (receive rubber check). I can't believe that Western Union would stay in business if there was a way to send rubber funds.

theHedgehog


What the scammer asks for is the difference in funds between the object's sales price and their check they request be sent through a non-recourse financial media. All Western Union does is act as an intermediary to facilitate funds transfer. They don't (and can't) police if the funds are legitimate to sender or receiver and nor are they liable. Realize it's Mawhinney's funds (real dollars) that are being moved. The scammer doesn't use Western Union at all. Mawhinney is then on the hook.

In most circumstances using Western Union is a good move especially if there's a trust between buyer and seller yet in this circumstance that level of trust doesn't exist.

MichaelR




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Author: MichaelRead Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Winner! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 11185 of 19256
Subject: Re: foreign Electronic transfer $$ Date: 3/5/2007 6:05 PM
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Mawhinney:

I did further research on boat scams and found this: http://boatboss.com/blog/?cat=16

Go down the list of letters sent to sellers and see if the offer made for your boat matches any of them. If so, I'm afraid you're being scammed.

MichaelR




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Author: MichaelRead Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Winner! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 11193 of 19256
Subject: Re: foreign Electronic transfer $$ Date: 3/6/2007 11:59 PM
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In a way I'm hesitant to write this yet I want to set something straight. I hope – really hope – that mawhinney doesn't think that possibly being caught in what maybe a scan in anyway makes me (or anyone else) think he/she is a sucker or any lesser for being caught in an abnegation of trust..

We all work on trust and it's unfortunate that some take that trust and turn it against us. What does that make us? Only what we think it makes us. What I dislike about scams is not because they are what they are but they then cause us to wonder about our trust of others. That way they harm us more than in dollars lost.

I can be conned by my grandkids and I love it. They can wheedle and then twist me around their little fingers and I am happy. Just one more push on the swing, “Because, Granddad, it really isn't that late,” and I do it even if I get a scolding from their parents because we are late. But those who take my trust and turn it against me I cannot accept.

I have been rooked. I am not lily-white. Never profess to be. Does that make me wary? Sure does. Has it changed my view of trusting others? Not really. As the BBB says, “If it's too good to be true, it isn't.” As President Reagan put it: “Trust – and verify.” I do continue to trust and that's because I was raised that way but, now I'm older, my trust has limits.

To me the theft of trust is more than the theft of dollars.

MichaelR




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