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Author: ChocoKitty Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 5082  
Subject: From "The Joy of Not Working" Date: 8/6/2003 1:25 PM
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Ok, starting yet another thread:

IN the book "The Joy of Not Working," the author recommends that you start developing a wide range of hobbies and interests NOW. Or at least write them down. That way, you'll be able to develop your own life structure after retirement, the structure that work used to provide. He recommended at least one that gets you out of the house two or more times a week as well as some form of daily exercise. As much fun as golf or any other single activity may be, it won't be enough to fill an entire life.

So, what's on your list?

CK
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Author: SoftSimp Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 7 of 5082
Subject: Re: From "The Joy of Not Working" Date: 8/6/2003 1:49 PM
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So, what's on your list?

I like to "putter" and "dabble." I putter in the garden (pulling weeds, designing beds), I putter around the house (new crown moldings, replastering walls), I dabble in the stock market. Not only do I think that puttering and dabbling will be activities I'll want to carry over into retirement, but I'll be able to continue using them to generate income. The income generating potential of the stock market is pretty obvious, but I've also discovered a way to make use of my puttering to earn money - buying "fixer-uppers." I'm a landlord and I love it!

My investment goals include a roughly even mix of stock and real estate investments. Right now I've got half as much in real estate as I do in the stock market, which says to me that it's time to buy another property! I just need to finish up some projects for work and I'll start hunting again.

Come to think of it, I think these puttering activities also serve as exercise and a reason to get out of the house. What do you think, have I covered my bases? :)

BTW, my work has almost no structure (although I'm working on that). I'm self-employed, so I work when the mood strikes me. This method is not doing great things for the budget, so I'm going to have to try to add some structure now!

SS

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Author: phantomdiver Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 10 of 5082
Subject: Re: From "The Joy of Not Working" Date: 8/6/2003 2:08 PM
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So, what's on your list?

Oh, gosh, so much stuff!

Biking. Every day, if possible. Ideally ten miles or more a day.

Gardening. I love my pitiful little vegetable garden.

Tutoring. I love tutoring kids who want to learn, and I have a blast every summer when I tutor at an ESL summer camp.

Bookselling. It isn't a job if you love it, right? ;-) I have a small business that I get a huge kick out of. Unfortunately, it can't support my family.

Piano-playing. To practice again! Maybe even to take lessons again! What a luxury that would be!

And so much more!

phantomdiver

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Author: TrudyPhool Three stars, 500 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 11 of 5082
Subject: Re: From "The Joy of Not Working" Date: 8/6/2003 2:17 PM
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Gardening definitely. It is sooo relaxing and fun.

I would love to start tutoring. Tutors around here get about $30 per hour! Can you imagine paying that? Yipes! So I have it in my head that I could tutor in math to earn extra money and spend time with kids/teenagers.

I would also really like to help my brother run his business. Organize his office, answer the phones, coordinate everything. I would do this for free.

--Trudy


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Author: phantomdiver Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 14 of 5082
Subject: Re: From "The Joy of Not Working" Date: 8/6/2003 2:26 PM
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I would love to start tutoring. Tutors around here get about $30 per hour! Can you imagine paying that? Yipes!

Around here, I've heard estimates of up to $50/hour. Where I'm going to retire, it is probably free. Also, I'll probably be tutoring kids of moderate means, so I'm expecting not only no pay but financial outlay for books etc. But it's what I really want to do, so I can plan for that expenditure.

phantomdiver

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Author: lowstudent Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 18 of 5082
Subject: Re: From "The Joy of Not Working" Date: 8/6/2003 2:39 PM
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"As much fun as golf or any other single activity may be, it won't be enough to fill an entire life"


Although I agree in principal, my folks retired with one hobby a a piece. My dad fished and my mom loved crafts, there was a slew of them, but other then from the elobow down they didn't really differ that much, needle point, plastic canvas, crochet, and a few others. They never branched out and were happier than any two people I have seen in my life. So folks is all different, a lot of other folks ended up drawn to my mother and her crafts and she ended up with an entourage of people who never intended to do this crazy stuff all making heart shaped clocks with mail slots and a place to put your keys and such. So I don't worry all that much about having a lot of hobbies. If your a person with an upbeat attitude and believe retirement is going to be good, Iam pretty sure it will be!

Personally, although I do look forward to spending years exploring our countries history and sites as well as some other stuff including staying young by finding ways to stay involved with kids I don't see a value for lists and spending my time now looking for stuff I will do later. I'm still enjoying basketball while I have knees that work!

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Author: malibu114 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 28 of 5082
Subject: Re: From "The Joy of Not Working" Date: 8/6/2003 3:16 PM
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So, what's on your list?

-Write either a book or short stories
-take daily walks (don't have the time to now)
-volunteer at a local animal shelter

Donna



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Author: John3haha Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 32 of 5082
Subject: Re: From "The Joy of Not Working" Date: 8/6/2003 3:26 PM
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Great thread. Both of my parents retired relatively early, e.g. Dad at 55, and had problems figuring out what to do with themselves. This exacerbated relationship problems.

My big hobby is to play European board games. Does this sound weird? In much of Europe, this is a big social trend with Sunday set aside to play board games with children and/or have friends over for wine and a game or two. It fits well with FIRE as the effective cost is darn small. Some of the more interesting U.S. gamers I have met started their own business, had little work and little money in the early days, and became hard core board gamers because it offered the best entertainment value. Living in a major city, Atlanta, there are relatively big groups that meet three times a week in public settings and lots of private groups. There are some interesting folks who are gamers, including TMF's own DavidG and an editor at one of the largest magazines in the world. The quality of games being produced now is also a big plus, there are games with lots of interesting elements and high quality components where it is easy to finish a game in 30-90 minutes for 2-6+ players at a time. There is a pretty good board here at TMF on board games should this quasi-rant appeal to you.

My wife is a scrap book queen, another interesting group that has lots of internet groupies and conventions and reasonably inexpensive get togethers. Not quite as cheap as gaming, IMHO, but you are creating some nice family momentos.

Cheers,

JohnH

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Author: electrasmom Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 33 of 5082
Subject: Re: From "The Joy of Not Working" Date: 8/6/2003 3:27 PM
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These I already do and will definitely continue:
1. Running
2. Quilting
3. Counted cross-stitch
4. Volunteer at animal shelter
5. Reading

want to do when I retire
1. Big vegetable garden
2. Biking and
3. Swimming so I can do...
4. Triathlons
5. Hiking (if we move to the mountains)

electrasmom (who likes to keep busy)



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Author: chooey98 Big red star, 1000 posts 10+ Year Anniversary! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 70 of 5082
Subject: Re: From "The Joy of Not Working" Date: 8/6/2003 5:46 PM
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Letterboxing (thanks, again Chocokitty)
Nature photography / birding
Daytrading (Hey, I'd like to try)
Reading/researching whatever grabs my attention
Keeping house better
Cooking
Hanging with friends and family


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Author: FoolMeOnce Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 71 of 5082
Subject: Re: From "The Joy of Not Working" Date: 8/6/2003 5:47 PM
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CK:

IN the book "The Joy of Not Working," the author recommends that you start developing a wide range of hobbies and interests NOW. Or at least write them down. That way, you'll be able to develop your own life structure after retirement, the structure that work used to provide. He recommended at least one that gets you out of the house two or more times a week as well as some form of daily exercise. As much fun as golf or any other single activity may be, it won't be enough to fill an entire life.

So, what's on your list?


I loved "The Joy of Not Working". Perhaps because it might be a lifesaver later on. I sometimes worry about what life for me will be like in retirement. It's not that I don't have interests. I just think that it is hard to anticipate what the impact of "losing structure" will be. I like to take several long vacations during the year and I have always enjoyed them, but I suspect it's not the same as never going back to work again. My interests:

Reading
Gardening
Real Estate
Hiking
Fishing

My plan is to relocate to the Blue Ridge mountains from the coastal plain of Virginia where I can indulge my interests to the max. I suspect that after a while I may discover that I need challenges beyond what my interests are capable of providing. I hope not, but if so it will be nice to know that the options are endless.

Regards,
FMO


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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 85 of 5082
Subject: Re: From "The Joy of Not Working" Date: 8/6/2003 7:31 PM
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<<Right now I've got half as much in real estate as I do in the stock market, which says to me that it's time to buy another property! I just need to finish up some projects for work and I'll start hunting again.
>>


What do you look for in a house to fix up and sell?



Seattle Pioneer

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Author: JBtheJunkist Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 86 of 5082
Subject: Re: From "The Joy of Not Working" Date: 8/6/2003 7:34 PM
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What do you look for in a house to fix up and sell?

Seattle Pioneer


To answer out of turn, what I look for in property is the same thing I look for in antiques, furniture, etc:

Is it undervalued and can I make money with a fair cost/value purchase of it.

Normally, I make money. IF I'm patient.

:)

JB


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Author: Dilmatz Three stars, 500 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 87 of 5082
Subject: Re: From "The Joy of Not Working" Date: 8/6/2003 7:51 PM
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One word: Jazz.

To listen to it more.

To listen to it LIVE more.

To play it more.

To practice.

Man, that would be cool...Daniel

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Author: SoftSimp Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 99 of 5082
Subject: Re: From "The Joy of Not Working" Date: 8/6/2003 8:52 PM
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What do you look for in a house to fix up and sell?

I don't want to sell them, I want to keep them and rent them out. When I'm ready to retire from being a landlord (which may never actually happen because I really enjoy it) my plan is to sell them and offer seller financing. The idea is to continue to earn a bit of money on them (through interest income) while helping out the next generation of investors.

But what I look for are:

Good bones - no structural issues in the foundation, which, in the area I buy in would not be worth the expense to fix. No rotten structural supports on porches, etc. for safety reasons.

Major systems already in place - upgraded wiring, healthy heating system (I love boilers), sound plumbing.

A roof and exterior that "will do" for at least 2-3 years.

A beat up or dirty interior - reduces price and reduces competition for the property, just takes a bit of elbow grease to fix. I'm a master with the plaster. :)

A yard in need of overhaul - I love landscaping and can tackle this over time.

A garage - just makes it more appealing to prospective tenants to not have to scrape snow off their cars in the winter.

I like doubles with a minimum of two bedrooms per unit and at least 1000 sq' per unit. The neat thing about doubles is that even if one unit is unoccupied, you've still got money coming in.

A seller who, for whatever reason, is willing to sell below market. I use bank financing because I'm comfortable with it.

A house that will "cash flow" as soon as it's fully rented, even if it's just a few bucks. After the initial purchase and fix up, the house needs to be able to pay for any additional work it needs out of the income it generates.

I live in a suburb of Cleveland. I buy in Cleveland proper, in a nice little blue collar neighborhood that I'm familiar with (I dated a couple of guys who lived there and used to go for a lot of walks). The houses in that neighborhood support rents comparable to the rents in the nearby suburbs, but the houses sometimes sell for 2/3 to 1/2 what the houses in the nearby suburbs sell for.

The one we have bought itself new siding, windows, roof, insulation and gutters about a year and a half ago. We financed the upgrades over 12 years at 5%, and that darned cash cow is still cash flowing for me - not as high as it was, but over $100 every month, after deducting for regular expenses and planned maintenance expenses. And that's probably the last major investment that house will need in my lifetime.

I hope that answers your question. :)

SS

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Author: feawen One star, 50 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 135 of 5082
Subject: Re: From "The Joy of Not Working" Date: 8/7/2003 10:23 AM
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Richard Bolles has a really interesting chart in his book "The Three Boxes of Life." It is essentially a circle with leisure activities in four different quadrants. I used to use it a lot when helping patients to develop a more balanced lifestyle. The three boxes are education, work and leisure. Bolles advocates that you can move the boxes around however you want, although generally education comes first.

The quadrants divide leisure activities into things you do alone, with others, outgoing/physical/sports things and more introspective things (as I recall - I can't find my copy of the book now at the moment, but shall try to, later.) For example, ice skating is a sport you can do on your own, football requires others, and both are sports. Hiking is a sport, but can be done in isolation. Meditation is solitary and inner working. Cross stitch is not a sport, reading is done alone usually, volunteering at the hospital is a giving/social activity. I don't think I'm explaining this very well, but the holistic mind people will get this.

Anyway, the chart is very inspiring and provides a nice concept for thinking about leisure activities. Or it can drive you wild that you can't do all the stuff you really have been hankering for. :-)

My list:
gardening, veggies, and flowers
training my dog more
drawing with pencil
writing
hiking
walking
learning Scottish dancing
volunteering at the emergency vet clinic
working in the food pantry
fund raisers for church
volunteering at the museum
befriending a child
swimming in a lake
boating
learning to waterski
learning to scuba dive
pottery
aromatherapy
cooking
baking cookies and bread
traveling to New Zealand, Greece, Italy and England
OK, I'll throw in Hawaii
yoga
meditation
reading the Romantic poets again
making ice cream
reading more history
doing pilates
learning how to play pool better (played once)

you get the drift :-)


feawen


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Author: peteyperson Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 795 of 5082
Subject: Re: From "The Joy of Not Working" Date: 9/20/2003 9:18 PM
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Hi feawen,

Following up from your post last month on the new FIRE wannabee board, I was wondering whether you would recommend the book you mentioned by Richard Bolles?

Thanks,
Petey


Richard Bolles has a really interesting chart in his book "The Three Boxes of Life." It is essentially a circle with leisure activities in four different quadrants. I used to use it a lot when helping patients to develop a more balanced lifestyle. The three boxes are education, work and leisure. Bolles advocates that you can move the boxes around however you want, although generally education comes first.

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