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Author: overspent Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 439292  
Subject: Fundies to take over South Carolina? Date: 5/25/2004 12:35 PM
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Christians look to form
'new nation' within U.S.
Same-sex marriage called last straw prompting plan for 1 state to secede


Calling the approval of same-sex marriage in Massachusetts "the straw that broke the camel's back," a group of Christian activists is in the beginning stages of an effort to have one state secede from the United States to become its own sovereign nation.

"Our Christian republic has declined into a pagan democracy," says Cory Burnell, president of ChristianExodus.org, a non-profit corporation based in Tyler, Texas. "There are some issues people just can't take anymore, and [same-sex marriage] might finally wake up the complacent Christians."


Read the rest at: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=38571

Anyone got an island they can donate to these clowns? Preferably one in the South Pacific...


overspent
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Author: JavaTraveler Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 110695 of 439292
Subject: Re: Fundies to take over South Carolina? Date: 5/25/2004 12:40 PM
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Why is it South Carolina who always secedes? And when will these yahoos get it into their thick skulls that this is NOT a CHRISTIAN nation?

Charlie

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Author: cliff666 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 110696 of 439292
Subject: Re: Fundies to take over South Carolina? Date: 5/25/2004 12:52 PM
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Anyone got an island they can donate to these clowns? Preferably one in the South Pacific...

overspent

Speaking of tropical islands in the South Pacific, you remind me of Somerset Maugham's short story called Rain http://www.englishstory.by.ru/maugham/rain/

Between the Macphails and the Davidsons, who were missionaries, there had arisen the intimacy of shipboard, which is due to propinquity rather than to any community of taste. Their chief tie was the disapproval they shared of the men who spent their days and nights in the smoking-room playing poker or bridge and drinking. Mrs. Macphail was not a little flattered to think that she and her husband were the only people on board with whom the Davidsons were willing to associate, and even the doctor, shy but no fool, half unconsciously acknowledged the compliment. It was only because he was of an argumentative mind that in their cabin at night he permitted himself to carp.
...
Davidson's district consisted of a group of islands to the North of Samoa; they were widely separated and he had frequently to go long distances by canoe. At these times his wife remained at their headquarters and managed the mission. Dr. Macphail felt his heart sink when he considered the efficiency with which she certainly managed it. She spoke of the depravity of the natives in a voice which nothing could hush, but with a vehemently unctuous horror. Her sense of delicacy was singular. Early in their acquaintance she had said to him:

"You know, their marriage customs when we first settled in the islands were so shocking that I couldn't possibly describe them to you. But I'll tell Mrs. Macphail and she'll tell you."
...
"Well, what did I say to you?" cried Mrs. Davidson, exultant, next morning. "Did you ever hear anything more dreadful? You don't wonder that I couldn't tell you myself, do you? Even though you are a doctor."

Mrs. Davidson scanned his face. She had a dramatic eagerness to see that she had achieved the desired effect.

"Can you wonder that when we first went there our hearts sank? You'll hardly believe me when I tell you it was impossible to find a single good girl in any of the villages."

She used the word good in a severely technical manner.

"Mr. Davidson and I talked it over, and we made up our minds the first thing to do was to put down the dancing. The natives were crazy about dancing."

Dare not quote more. But the story is complete on the site I posted. Maugham had a knack of catching the intrinsic evil in people.

cliff


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Author: FoolBalance Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 110697 of 439292
Subject: Re: Fundies to take over South Carolina? Date: 5/25/2004 1:12 PM
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They think it is a Christian nation because they don't use clear thinking or analysis very well. For instance, this list from that article contains many errors of thought or fact.

Abortion continues against the wishes of many states

Children may not pray in our schools

The Bible is not welcome in schools except under strict federal guidelines

The 10 Commandments remain banned from public display

Sodomy is now legal and celebrated as 'diversity' rather than perversion

Preaching Christianity will soon be outlawed as 'hate speech'

Gay marriage will be foisted upon us in the very near future


States don't have wishes, people do. Anthropomorphization of entities such as states is a common error of thinking which can lead to mistaken conclusions. There are many states where the majority of the population wish abortion was illegal, but that is irrelevant. Furthermore, many people who have abortions wish they hadn't needed to do it, but that isn't the same as being against abortion.

Children may certainly pray in school and elsewhere. What they may *not* do is be lead in prayer or otherwise engage in a state mandated prayer moment/session.

The Bible is completely welcome in school. I'm sure the federal guidelines are along the lines of no rule that forces any or all children to read it, etc.

The 10 Commandments may be displayed publicly, like a political yard sign (saw one in a yard here in Salt Lake a couple days ago), or on the bumper of your car, to your hearts content. What it may not be is displayed on publicly held property on government occupied/owned buildings, etc. so that it appears to be a sanctioning of religion.

Sodomy is still illegal in many states, though largely not enforced.

I wonder where preaching Christianity is at risk of being generally labeled hate speech (even though it is occasionally).

Gay marriage is simply granting to a minority community in this nation the same rights held by the majority, similar to what happened with interracial marriage in the middle part of the last century.

Paul

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Author: tenworlds Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 110698 of 439292
Subject: Re: Fundies to take over South Carolina? Date: 5/25/2004 1:12 PM
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Anyone got an island they can donate to these clowns? Preferably one in the South Pacific...
overspent

-----

I think it would be interesting to see what happens if they get their own place, then watch as gays start popping up in their 'Christian republic'.

Hey folks, it's human nature...some are hetero, some are not, some are both. You can't get away from it. Humanity...wherever you go, there you are. Evolve or die off.




Rich


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Author: foolfromoh Three stars, 500 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 110700 of 439292
Subject: Re: Fundies to take over South Carolina? Date: 5/25/2004 2:01 PM
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They can have Texas as far as I'm concerned.

FFO
I have a leader I'll give them there too

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Author: overspent Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 110701 of 439292
Subject: Re: Fundies to take over South Carolina? Date: 5/25/2004 2:27 PM
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They can have Texas as far as I'm concerned.

hee! I thought about saying that, but there are too many AF regulars that live there. Don't want to go giving away their state to the fundie nitwit brigade. ;)


overspent


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Author: dcarper Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 110703 of 439292
Subject: Re: Fundies to take over South Carolina? Date: 5/25/2004 2:41 PM
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I think it would be interesting to see what happens if they get their own place, then watch as gays start popping up in their 'Christian republic'.

Even without that, it would be interesting the hear them argue about what is "Christian". They can't even agree on the CF board, how are they going to agree when it comes to making laws?

David

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Author: AngelMay Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 110704 of 439292
Subject: Re: Fundies to take over South Carolina? Date: 5/25/2004 2:45 PM
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Even without that, it would be interesting the hear them argue about what is "Christian". They can't even agree on the CF board, how are they going to agree when it comes to making laws?

David




Easy. They will just crucify everyone who disagrees with them.
A whole new era of Crusades. :o)

AM

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Author: dcarper Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 110705 of 439292
Subject: Re: Fundies to take over South Carolina? Date: 5/25/2004 2:47 PM
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Easy. They will just crucify everyone who disagrees with them.
A whole new era of Crusades. :o)


LOL! But when you get down to only two left, how is it decided which one gets to be "they" and which one is "them"?

David

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Author: tenworlds Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 110706 of 439292
Subject: Re: Fundies to take over South Carolina? Date: 5/25/2004 2:48 PM
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Easy. They will just crucify everyone who disagrees with them.
A whole new era of Crusades. :o)
AM

-----

Well, if they all disagreed with each other, that would make it a self-eliminating problem. Right?

I say let's find them a place.




Rich


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Author: Foolferlove Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 110707 of 439292
Subject: Re: Fundies to take over South Carolina? Date: 5/25/2004 3:07 PM
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LOL! But when you get down to only two left, how is it decided which one gets to be "they" and which one is "them"?

Well, I at least, have indeed found the one true scotsman:

www.scotsman.com



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Author: Bonhoeffer Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 110708 of 439292
Subject: Re: Fundies to take over South Carolina? Date: 5/25/2004 3:37 PM
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Well, I at least, have indeed found the one true scotsman:

www.scotsman.com


I bet you've been dying for a good opportunity to use that one. How long've you had that waiting in the wings?

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Author: Foolferlove Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 110712 of 439292
Subject: Re: Fundies to take over South Carolina? Date: 5/25/2004 4:16 PM
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I bet you've been dying for a good opportunity to use that one. How long've you had that waiting in the wings?

6 weeks, 8 weeks tops. Waiting has been TORTURE.

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Author: AngelMay Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 110713 of 439292
Subject: Re: Fundies to take over South Carolina? Date: 5/25/2004 4:35 PM
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LOL! But when you get down to only two left, how is it decided which one gets to be "they" and which one is "them"?

David




Well, David... obviously you haven't been paying attention.
"They" are the ones who will use any means to get what they want.
If this is true of both sides, it will boil down to which is the strongest and most ruthless. They...Them... it doesn't really matter. Each will crucify the other until one or the other of them is subdued or dead.

Religion isn't much on compromise.
Just in case you hadn't noticed. :o)

AM

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Author: MDGluon Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 110715 of 439292
Subject: Re: Fundies to take over South Carolina? Date: 5/25/2004 5:08 PM
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They can have Texas as far as I'm concerned.

hee! I thought about saying that, but there are too many AF regulars that live there. Don't want to go giving away their state to the fundie nitwit brigade. ;)


overspent


Why not? After all they gave us their nitwit.

;^)

md (Still donating to the Great Wall of Texas to keep their nitwits in)


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Author: cevera1 Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 110716 of 439292
Subject: Re: Fundies to take over South Carolina? Date: 5/25/2004 5:11 PM
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hee! I thought about saying that, but there are too many AF regulars that live there. Don't want to go giving away their state to the fundie nitwit brigade. ;)

overspent

Why not? After all they gave us their nitwit.


Keep it up, buddy. There's more where they came from.

cliff
jeb 2008


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Author: MDGluon Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 110717 of 439292
Subject: Re: Fundies to take over South Carolina? Date: 5/25/2004 5:16 PM
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hee! I thought about saying that, but there are too many AF regulars that live there. Don't want to go giving away their state to the fundie nitwit brigade. ;)
-overspent

Why not? After all they gave us their nitwit.
-md


Keep it up, buddy. There's more where they came from.

-cliff
jeb 2008


That is what I am afaid off! :^)
md (We tried shipping ours down to you but they kept coming back!)

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Author: tedhimself Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 110720 of 439292
Subject: Re: Fundies to take over South Carolina? Date: 5/25/2004 10:55 PM
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Overspent: Calling the approval of same-sex marriage in Massachusetts "the straw that broke the camel's back," a group of Christian activists is in the beginning stages of an effort to have one state secede from the United States to become its own sovereign nation.

Anyone got an island they can donate to these clowns? Preferably one in the South Pacific...


How about Iraq?
Ted


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Author: JavaTraveler Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 110721 of 439292
Subject: Re: Fundies to take over South Carolina? Date: 5/25/2004 10:58 PM
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Anyone got an island they can donate to these clowns? Preferably one in the South Pacific...

How about Iraq?



Silly...Iraq isn't in the South Pacific.

:-)Charlie

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Author: tedhimself Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 110722 of 439292
Subject: Re: Fundies to take over South Carolina? Date: 5/25/2004 11:05 PM
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Keep it up, buddy. There's more where they came from.

cliff
jeb 2008


Then in 2016 Jenna will give up booze, find god, and run for president.


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Author: proton500 Big red star, 1000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 110723 of 439292
Subject: Re: Fundies to take over South Carolina? Date: 5/25/2004 11:49 PM
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I bet you've been dying for a good opportunity to use that one. How long've you had that waiting in the wings?

I'll bet it's not as long as I've been saving this one. ;-)

proton


"Politics are not the task of a Christian."

Dietrich Bonhoeffer



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Author: Bonhoeffer Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 110724 of 439292
Subject: Re: Fundies to take over South Carolina? Date: 5/26/2004 8:18 AM
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"Politics are not the task of a Christian."

Dietrich Bonhoeffer


Unfortunately, the right-wingers who are so politically active think my namesake was a liberal crazy...

Bon

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Author: Goofyhoofy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 110727 of 439292
Subject: Re: Fundies to take over South Carolina? Date: 5/26/2004 8:37 AM
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Silly...Iraq isn't in the South Pacific.

It used to be. And if you wait long enough, it will be again.

Goofy
now lecturing on plate tectonics and seafloor spreading in Room 304

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Author: feleck Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 110728 of 439292
Subject: Re: Fundies to take over South Carolina? Date: 5/26/2004 11:25 AM
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Anyone got an island they can donate to these clowns? Preferably one in the South Pacific...

Hey, the Libertarians have first dibs!

http://www.freestateproject.org/

Fair is fair, they had the idea/organisation before these Johnny come lately's.

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Author: AngelMay Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 110729 of 439292
Subject: Re: Fundies to take over South Carolina? Date: 5/26/2004 11:35 AM
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Hey, the Libertarians have first dibs!

http://www.freestateproject.org/

Fair is fair, they had the idea/organisation before these Johnny come lately's.



Hi feleck -- Please don't take this as any kind of an attack (AngelSpouse also claims to be Libertarian) -- but if, say, the Libertarians had themselves an island as proposed here, I'm assuming they would set up some form of government for their community/island-country.

What sort of government would it be?

Would commerce between people be regulated or would it be a buyer-beware atmosphere?

Suppose one of your group just couldn't make it and fell upon hard times... would that member be just left there to die without any kind of help from the group?

What sort of educational system would you set up? Would it teach everyone, or just those who could pay?

Would there be any sort of traffic laws? Would there be any protections built in for the weakest among your group?

I ask all these things (and there are lots more questions) because I have never actually understood Libertarianism beyond their desire for fewer laws and more individual responsibility -- whatever that means, exactly. I've asked AngelSpouse on more than one occasion but I've never gotten an answer that I felt was understandable or that I could wrap my mind around to visualize a "Libertarian Society".

But since we are hypothesizing an Island nation of Libertarians here, it would be very interesting if you could answer some/all of these questions for me. It gives you a chance to work from scratch -- to mentally build the libertarian society that you would truly like to see.

Many thanks.

AM

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Author: feleck Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 110730 of 439292
Subject: Re: Fundies to take over South Carolina? Date: 5/26/2004 11:49 AM
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What sort of government would it be?

My guess is it would most closely resemble the goverment of to New Hampshire since that is where this group plans to move.

Which is the state goverment that denied IIRC denied a young women in her twenties SSDI(despite the fact that she had been working, and paying Social Security taxes since she was 16) after she was in a car accident and suffered brain damage because, get this, it occured before she turned 22 - and under state law any mental conditions arising before age 22 are considered developemental.

But hey, that's just a guess. I suppose for a real close look you would have to check out their website.

And than there was the group(I forget what their political/religious ideal was) that planned on building their own island utopia. I think it was called Pacifica?

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Author: AngelMay Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 110731 of 439292
Subject: Re: Fundies to take over South Carolina? Date: 5/26/2004 11:59 AM
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Then you are not a libertarian and cannot answer my questions, right?

AM

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Author: feleck Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 110732 of 439292
Subject: Re: Fundies to take over South Carolina? Date: 5/26/2004 12:07 PM
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Then you are not a libertarian and cannot answer my questions, right?

Correct.

But I still say the libertarians have first dibs on any islands in the south pacific - or at least they get them before the fundies do. They had the idea first(well, not technically first, since I'm sure other groups have had the same idea, but I don't know of any other currently active groups organizing for a mass migration)

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Author: dcarper Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 110734 of 439292
Subject: Re: Fundies to take over South Carolina? Date: 5/26/2004 1:57 PM
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Then in 2016 Jenna will give up booze, find god, and run for president.

I guess that's after the Constitutional convention?

(otherwise, she won't be old enough until 2020; but seeing the Bush's regard for the Constitution, not much of a stumbling block)

David



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Author: tedhimself Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 110737 of 439292
Subject: Re: Fundies to take over South Carolina? Date: 5/26/2004 2:35 PM
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I guess that's after the Constitutional convention?

The amendment allowing people under 35 to be president or the one allowing people who are related to George to serve three terms?

Ted


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Author: dcarper Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 110742 of 439292
Subject: Re: Fundies to take over South Carolina? Date: 5/26/2004 2:48 PM
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The amendment allowing people under 35 to be president or the one allowing people who are related to George to serve three terms?

Either would work; if GW or Jeb is allowed to serve three terms, then Jenna will be old enough by the next election.

Of course, at the rate he's going, Bush might as well throw out the whole Constitution; the only part that his groupies seem to care about is the 2nd Amendment, and they're still pissed because they aren't allowed to own M-16s.

David

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Author: Grumpybiker Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 110747 of 439292
Subject: Re: Fundies to take over South Carolina? Date: 5/26/2004 8:32 PM
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dcarper: <...the only part that his groupies seem to care about is the 2nd Amendment, and they're still pissed because they aren't allowed to own M-16s...>

But we are, Dave! It's just that they can't be in selective fire mode. Just google AR-15 and/or Bushmaster. Besides, my SKS packs a lot more wallop and is more reliable:

http://groups.msn.com/GrumpyPix/online.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=169

Regards,

Grumpy
assuring you that my new red star does not mean I have leftist leanings

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Author: rehowes Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 110754 of 439292
Subject: Re: Fundies to take over South Carolina? Date: 5/26/2004 11:09 PM
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Hey Grumpy, I have a question.

I have my g-g grandfather's Model 1899 Savage .30-30 rifle. Where can I get an idea of what it is worth so I can decide on how much time, money, and effort to put into it?

Randall

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Author: tedhimself Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 110755 of 439292
Subject: Re: Fundies to take over South Carolina? Date: 5/27/2004 12:59 AM
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Randall: I have my g-g grandfather's Model 1899 Savage .30-30 rifle. Where can I get an idea of what it is worth so I can decide on how much time, money, and effort to put into it?

I've got one of those also. You can go to www.savage99.com and enter your serial number to find out when yours was made. Mine was made in 1937 or 1938. There are various barrel lengths and sites for these. Mine's a 22" barrel with a marble sight

I'd be interested in Grumpy's opinion also.

Ted - also has a model 1898 U.S. Springfield Armory #193314 with a 22" barrel. Not sure how old it is.


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Author: Grumpybiker Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 110773 of 439292
Subject: Re: Fundies to take over South Carolina? Date: 5/27/2004 1:09 PM
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<...I'd be interested in Grumpy's opinion also...>

I thank you, Ted, for your faith (oops, wrong board) in my weapons expertise, but I must confess (oops, still wrong board) that, although because of my affiliation with the Border Rangers, I own a lot of seemingly older guns, most are newly manufactured replicas.

http://groups.msn.com/GrumpyPix/grumpyslife.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=188

Of course, that doesn't preclude my interest in more modern weaponry, such as my SKS and other military guns, but I am not really as much into the mechanics as much as you seem to be; I had my gunsmith perform the SKS stock conversion. http://groups.msn.com/GrumpyPix/online.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=168
http://groups.msn.com/GrumpyPix/grumpyslife.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=45

Regards,

Grumpy

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