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Author: Foolferlove Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 445731  
Subject: Re: The power of prayer, is it real? Date: 11/12/2002 1:59 PM
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GeorgeFifth says:
The evidence says you are wrong.

and copies the following from a page that makes the following statement:

The prayed-for patients differed from the non-prayed for patients in the following ways. 1. They were five times less likely to require antibiotics. 2. They were three times less likely to develop pulmonary edema. 3. None of the prayed-for group required an artificial airway in inserted in the throat and attached to a mechanical ventilator, while twelve of the non-prayed for group required this support. 4. FEWER PATIENTS IN THE PRAYED-FOR FROUP DIED.

The evidence proves that someone is deliberately lying, or at best, ignorant.

The study quoted above comes from the southern medical journal. Taken directly from the summary, the authors state (the "IP" group is the prayed for group):

The control patients required ventilatory assistance, antibiotics, and diuretics more frequently than patients in the IP group. These data suggest that intercessory prayer to the Judeo- Christian God has a beneficial therapeutic effect in patients admitted to a CCU.

Notice what is absent in the author's own conclusion? He never states, either in the summary or the text, that "fewer patients in the prayed-for group died". The reason is that it's NOT TRUE. There was no statistical difference in mortality in the 2 groups. None.

So some Christian is either lying to cover-up the facts, or ignorant about medical studies and what the word "PROVEN" means.

In addition, the authors looked at 20 different parameters. Things such as post-op pain, nights in the hostpital, re-addmission rates, etc. Out of 20 or so parameters, only THREE were better, and those were the ones listed above. The other 17 parameters, including DEATH rates, were statistically similar. Not exactly a ringing endorsement for prayer. Just the opposite. It doesn't work.

As for all the other garbage you refer to in your post, you ignored my original argument. Medical people will all agree that faith of ANY sort in ANY god or power can help create a positive outlook and that leads to positive thinking and that is always a good thing. That shows nothing about the truth of the faith-claims. It works equally as well for Hindus as it does for Catholics. Every study you list other than the cardiac study listed above is only another way to prove that positive thinking is good. Funny, no one ever disputed that. I'll bet if you did a study of terminally ill cancer patients where half were fooled into believing that a sugar pill was actually a powerful brand new cure, that half would do better. That would not all of a sudden cause the suger pill to be anything other than what it really is: a fake. It's the same with faith.
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