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Author: salaryguru Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 56818  
Subject: Gifted and Neglected Date: 9/19/2012 3:26 PM
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http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/19/opinion/gifted-students-de...

Young, Gifted and Neglected

BARACK OBAMA and Mitt Romney both attended elite private high schools. Both are undeniably smart and well educated and owe much of their success to the strong foundation laid by excellent schools.  

Every motivated, high-potential young American deserves a similar opportunity. But the majority of very smart kids lack the wherewithal to enroll in rigorous private schools. They depend on public education to prepare them for life. Yet that system is failing to create enough opportunities for hundreds of thousands of these high-potential girls and boys.

Mostly, the system ignores them, with policies and budget priorities that concentrate on raising the floor under low-achieving students. A good and necessary thing to do, yes, but we’ve failed to raise the ceiling for those already well above the floor.

 Public education’s neglect of high-ability students doesn’t just deny individuals opportunities they deserve. It also imperils the country’s future supply of scientists, inventors and entrepreneurs.  
. . .
Here and there, however, entire public schools focus exclusively on high-ability, highly motivated students. . . When my colleague Jessica A. Hockett and I went searching for schools like these to study, we discovered that no one had ever fully mapped this terrain.

In a country with more than 20,000 public high schools, we found just 165 of these schools, known as exam schools. They educate about 1 percent of students. Nineteen states have none. . . Almost all have far more qualified applicants than they can accommodate. Hence they practice very selective admission, turning away thousands of students who could benefit from what they have to offer. Northern Virginia’s acclaimed Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology, for example, gets some 3,300 applicants a year — two-thirds of them academically qualified — for 480 places.
. . .


This is part of the fallout of the way "No child left behind" was implemented. Teabaggers raped our schools of adequate funding, then established a priority for what money was left to raise the floor on the bottom of the class. The unintended consequence was a drastic lowering of the ceiling. As a nation, we will suffer for years from this.
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Author: FCorelli Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 45507 of 56818
Subject: Re: Gifted and Neglected Date: 9/19/2012 3:59 PM
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This is part of the fallout of the way "No child left behind" was implemented. Teabaggers raped our schools of adequate funding, then established a priority for what money was left to raise the floor on the bottom of the class. The unintended consequence was a drastic lowering of the ceiling. As a nation, we will suffer for years from this.

And that's just the way they want it. Less competition at the top for those who "can afford" the appropriate prepping and priming. And of course this keeps wages higher at the top and lower at the bottom as those who could have been so much more must now enter the "regular" world of work with a "regular" education on their resume and "regular", 47%'er contacts to draw on

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 45508 of 56818
Subject: Re: Gifted and Neglected Date: 9/19/2012 4:19 PM
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salaryguru:"This is part of the fallout of the way "No child left behind" was implemented. Teabaggers raped our schools of adequate funding, then established a priority for what money was left to raise the floor on the bottom of the class. The unintended consequence was a drastic lowering of the ceiling. As a nation, we will suffer for years from this. "

Actually, it's more like the libs demanded more and more and more and more stuff for schools. more Councillors....by the tens of thousands. More 'compliance' officers for 100,000 pages of regulations, with at least 5000 new directives each year. It was tens of thousands of admin types to fill in the paper forms for 'diversity' and 'ethnicity' and 'division of students by minority races, districts'...it was a focus on bean counting of counting white, yellow, red, black, tan, brown students and making sure 'quotas' were met. it was dumbing down athletic programs so boys programs didn't cost more than girls programs.....or you had to waste money on girls programs to match the better spent money for boys gym program.

It was nice faculty lounges for every growing faculty/admin per student everywhere.

Way back when, when schools did their jobs for the most part, where you had shop and auto mechanics, and vocational training...you didn't have 50% overhead in extra 'teaching assistants, administrators, councilors, diversity czars, community outreach types, social welfare types, paperwork shufflers, etc.

For a high school of 500, we had a principal, a vice principle, a guidance councilor, and maybe 3 secretaries/file clerks......and that was it. now, you have a staff of 30 for the same size school......

Yes, the Tea Party is right to starve the beast. It's failing and the bloat is omni-present. Worse, you can't even fire the 'rubber room teachers or ones who can't teach well.

We need 20 times the number of charter schools to help out.




t.

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Author: intercst Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 45510 of 56818
Subject: Re: Gifted and Neglected Date: 9/19/2012 4:29 PM
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telegraph,

For a high school of 500, we had a principal, a vice principle, a guidance councilor, and maybe 3 secretaries/file clerks......and that was it. now, you have a staff of 30 for the same size school......

Yes, the Tea Party is right to starve the beast. It's failing and the bloat is omni-present. Worse, you can't even fire the 'rubber room teachers or ones who can't teach well.

We need 20 times the number of charter schools to help out.

</snip>


I bet a for-profit charter school has as much overhead and bureaucracy as a GOP-approved, for-profit health insurer.

intercst

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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 45514 of 56818
Subject: Re: Gifted and Neglected Date: 9/19/2012 10:29 PM
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<<This is part of the fallout of the way "No child left behind" was implemented. Teabaggers raped our schools of adequate funding, then established a priority for what money was left to raise the floor on the bottom of the class. The unintended consequence was a drastic lowering of the ceiling. As a nation, we will suffer for years from this.>>





For a couple of generations liberals have been shedding crocodile tears about the educational plight of poor and minority children --- while doing nothing or undermining the academic achievement of such students.


Liberals have only been concerned about having educational options for their own children, and even rotten public school systems often have schools that cater to families with a real interest in academic achievement, while neglecting the children of the marginalized poor.


What Bush and NCLB did was to take the plight of poor children seriously for a change and attempt to force school districts to pay real attention to educating such children.

Of course it was LIBERALS who hated NCLB, because it threatened their elite programs. Liberals and their buddies in the unions have contrived to undermine the education of poor children and return to a system that protects education for the well off middle class.

I notice that Salary Guru and I share much the same interpretation of the facts. He simply complains about the result because it undermines elite programs liberals value while Republicans, Bush and NCLB made a genuine effort to improve education for the children that have been left behind by public education for generations.

Too bad most poor and minority families remain in the thrall of Democrats and liberals. Their failure to support NCLB politically will leave their children neglected for additional generations.



Seattle Pioneer

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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 45515 of 56818
Subject: Re: Gifted and Neglected Date: 9/19/2012 10:36 PM
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<<With almost three out of four high-school students going to college in an effort to get a top-paying job in one of the leading industrial groups, known as chaebols, South Korea is being flooded with more college graduates than it needs. Its 30 biggest companies hired 260,000 of them last year, leaving another 60,000 to swell the youth-unemployment rate to 6.4 percent in August, more than twice the national average.>>


<<SEOUL, South Korea —

Kim Hye-min boasts a 4.0 grade-point average at one of South Korea's top colleges, a perfect score in English proficiency and internships at Samsung Card and AT Kearney. All of her 20 job applications were rejected.

"A degree from a good university used to guarantee a spot at least at a top 10 company, but that was when a college degree actually meant something," Kim, 25, said as she walked to a Chinese lesson she's taking to boost her chance of joining one of the nation's most prestigious employers. "I studied hard and did everything right, but there are too many of us who did.">>


http://seattletimes.com/html/nationworld/2019185996_koreajob...

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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 45516 of 56818
Subject: Re: Gifted and Neglected Date: 9/19/2012 10:41 PM
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<<I bet a for-profit charter school has as much overhead and bureaucracy as a GOP-approved, for-profit health insurer.

intercst>>


The difference is with public education, you get whatever the government gives you.

With private education, you get what you pay for:


<< every Korean citizen knows where their money is going: private education. Korea has long-prided itself on its educational zeal and achievement nabbing top spots in international math and science competitions. That success, however, comes at a cost. In fact, it sometimes comes at a ruinous cost. The cost of raising a child from birth to graduation from university costs more than 262 million won ($235,000) –higher than the US, Canada, Australia, Japan and Germany. Only in the UK does it cost more.

According to the Chosun Ilbo, Korean parents spend an average of $1,000 per child on education each month. Instead of relying solely on the free public school system, parents often seek extra help for their children in academies and other academic institutions. This arrangement, however, has severe and long-lasting implications. Due to rising education costs, many young Koreans have decided to have only one child or forego the entire childbearing process altogether leaving the Korean government struggling to find incentives to increase Korea’s exceptionally low birthrate.>>


http://www.examiner.com/article/education-costs-crippling-ko...

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Author: PolymerMom Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 45518 of 56818
Subject: Re: Gifted and Neglected Date: 9/20/2012 12:05 AM
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Of course it was LIBERALS who hated NCLB, because it threatened their elite programs.

Well, no. It threatened public education. The way the guidelines were set up, there were always higher goals to meet - to the point that eventually all public schools would fail.

Have you heard of asymptotic limits? That's the graph where the line never quite gets the ever increasing goal.

see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asymptote

PM

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Author: alstroemeria Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 45528 of 56818
Subject: Re: Gifted and Neglected Date: 9/20/2012 12:04 PM
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The school system where my kids grew up offered a chapter of a very good nationwide gifted program called SAGE (something-something Gifted Education). You had to pass a test for abstract thinking to get into it--it had nothing to do with wealth, influence, even teacher recommendation, just whether you were an abstract thinker. SAGE kids were pulled out of the regular classroom a few hours a week, just like the kids who needed extra reading help or special ed.

Both my kids were in the SAGE program and enjoyed it.

I remember an affluent neighbor who complained that there was nothing special for her kids. Of course, that was because her kids didn't need extra help to succeed in school and weren't abstract thinkers. The regular curriculum was designed precisely for children like hers, but she opposed the SAGE program because she saw it as putting her kids down and depriving her kids of...something.

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Author: intercst Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 45529 of 56818
Subject: Re: Gifted and Neglected Date: 9/20/2012 1:32 PM
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In the Hartford Public Schools in the 1960's they had a gifted program that started in the 5th grade based on testing they did in the 4th grade. I think it was funded by the Sputnik hysteria when the USA was afraid of falling behind the Russians. Both my brother and I were placed in the program.

It was a special class with 10-12 students vs. the three classes of 30-35 students for the regular kids in the 5th grade. This arrangement lasted for two years until too many parents complained that the "smart kids" were getting too much attention & resources.

intercst

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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 45530 of 56818
Subject: Re: Gifted and Neglected Date: 9/20/2012 2:20 PM
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<<It was a special class with 10-12 students vs. the three classes of 30-35 students for the regular kids in the 5th grade. This arrangement lasted for two years until too many parents complained that the "smart kids" were getting too much attention & resources.

intercst>>


Democracy in action.


We see the same thing with Democrats promoting programs of discrimination against the wealthy.


And of course people benefit the most from education in proportion to their intelligence, with the very intelligent benefiting hugely from education and the dumb benefiting marginally if at all.

The democratic bias towards "equal education for all" is a waste of scarce resources, and usually winds up disadvantaging those who can benefit from education the most.



Seattle Pioneer

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Author: intercst Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 45532 of 56818
Subject: Re: Gifted and Neglected Date: 9/20/2012 3:02 PM
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SeattlePioneer writes,

We see the same thing with Democrats promoting programs of discrimination against the wealthy.

I wouldn't worry too much about that.

A few years ago they listed all Connecticut towns in order of the percentage of kids diagnosed as "learning disabled". With all the crack babies in Hartford, New Haven and Bridgeport, you'd expect to see one of those cities at the top of the list. Instead wealthy Greenwich had the highest percentage of learning disabled kids in the state. You'd have though the CDC would be called in to see if there was something in the water causing this epidemic of disability.

It turns out that you get extra time to take the SAT test if you have a diagnosis of ADD or something similar. Many wealthy parents were going from doctor to doctor until their kid got the 'correct' diagnosis. Obviously, extra time to take the test would be a significant advantage to a able-brained student.

Wealthy Sons & Daughters of Privilege will find a way to game the system no matter what.

intercst

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Author: alstroemeria Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 45553 of 56818
Subject: Re: Gifted and Neglected Date: 9/21/2012 8:39 PM
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We see the same thing with Democrats promoting programs of discrimination against the wealthy.

You're equating programs for gifted children with special tax breaks for the wealthy?

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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 45555 of 56818
Subject: Re: Gifted and Neglected Date: 9/21/2012 9:43 PM
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<< We see the same thing with Democrats promoting programs of discrimination against the wealthy.

You're equating programs for gifted children with special tax breaks for the wealthy?>>



One of the articles of faith for liberals and part of the liberal catechism is the idea of "progressive" taxation, which is nothing other than a program of discriminatory taxation against the wealthy.



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