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Author: TMFSpeck Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 1976315  
Subject: Re: It's over. We are a gulag society. Date: 9/10/2005 10:54 AM
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give it a break. Unless you can prove otherwise, Padilla isn't just "anyone".. last I heard, he was up on charges for planning on letting off a dirty bomb on OUR country...

The problem, you see, is that one of the bedrocks of our justice system is the idea that one is innocent until proven guilty. What you're suggesting is exactly the opposite - since he can't prove himself innocent.

The government doesn't want to try him. They just want to hold him forever.

You would probably bitch if we hung him from a lamp pole or shot him on a street corner, so maybe you should be happy from that aspect. After watching what took place on 9/11 and after reading what Bin Laden has indicated he wants to do to the US of A, I have no problem with using efforts to get information that will protect our country or its citizens, and then ending the burden to house and feed them on the taxpayers dollar shortly thereafter... because as YOU failed to notice, Padilla isn't your "normal" American citizen..

And what happens when you "use efforts" on someone who knows and has done nothing? I guess a few innocent bodies hanging from lamp poles is a small price to pay for "freedom", eh?

by the way, your taking liberty with the No evidence, No trial, No chance to question witnesses DOES NOT mean the government doesn't have the goods on him, now does it?

No, it doesn't, but neither does it prove that they do.

Consider this:

You live on a farm and you like to hunt - great American activities, no? Let's further say that you're a voracious reader and especially love to read about current events. Finally, let's say that you love the President and are thrilled that he's coming to your town for a rally.

Problem is that that neighbor you don't get along with calls the FBI anonymous tip line and tells them that he thinks you're a terrorist.

So, while you're away in town, the FBI and Secret Service show up at your house and find a George Bush biography, and book about Islam and the Kennedy assassination. They also find the Presidents motorcade route that you cut out of the newspaper and the calendar where you've circled his visit in red.

Upon further investigation, they find several hunting rifles, including that nifty Remington semi-auto with the high-powerd scope, along with nice assortment of handguns.

Now it's time to call in the ATF, who also finds huge quantities of ammonium nitrate fertilizer and diesel fuel (both needed for the farm, btw) -- enough to make your own little WMD.

This ruling by the Fourth Circuit allows the President to designate - at his whim - that you are an "enemy combatant". Forget trying to prove your innocence, since it will take three years just to get an attorney, and even then the government will refuse to indict you, preventing you from facing your accusers and offering evidence refuting the government's claims.

Of course, I could always say, as you did that that "DOES NOT mean the government doesn't have the goods on otterrivervalley, now does it?"

But I refuse to.

If Padilla is guilty, let's try, convict and punish him. That's the American way.

Allowing the President unfettered power to unilaterally designate enemies to be held in detention indefinitely smacks more of the behavior of the tyrants and dictators that we're very anxious to depose.

If this is the "Democracy" that Mr. Bush is trying to spread, I fear for us all.

Best,

Speck
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