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Author: NailThatJello Big gold star, 5000 posts Ticker Guide Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 1950965  
Subject: GOP hates science, loves tea Date: 8/28/2011 11:39 PM
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Mr. Perry, the governor of Texas, recently made headlines by dismissing evolution as “just a theory”. And on global warming he said “I think there are a substantial number of scientists who have manipulated data so that they will have dollars rolling into their projects. I think we are seeing almost weekly, or even daily, scientists are coming forward and questioning the original idea that man-made global warming is what is causing the climate to change.”

Mr. Romney responded to Mr. Perry’s challenge in trademark fashion: by running away. He thinks the world is getting hotter, but “I don’t know that” and “I don’t know if it’s mostly caused by humans.”

Of course, we know what’s motivating Mr. Romney’s sudden lack of conviction. According to Public Policy Polling, only 21 percent of Republican voters in Iowa believe in global warming (and only 35 percent believe in evolution).

Within the G.O.P., willful ignorance has become a litmus test for candidates, one that Mr. Romney is determined to pass at all costs.


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/29/opinion/republicans-agains...
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Author: MrCynic Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1693089 of 1950965
Subject: Re: GOP hates science, loves tea Date: 8/29/2011 12:49 AM
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Mr. Perry, the governor of Texas, recently made headlines by dismissing evolution as “just a theory”.

Well, if it's not a theory then what the heck is it? Even scientists call it the "Theory of Evolution."

Why do you suppose they use the term "Theory of Evolution?"

How can you say the GOP hates science when you don't even know what science is?

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Author: NailThatJello Big gold star, 5000 posts Ticker Guide Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1693093 of 1950965
Subject: Re: GOP hates science, loves tea Date: 8/29/2011 5:37 AM
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Check a scientific dictionary, then you'll understand the following:

A scientific theory is constructed to conform to available empirical data about such observations, and is put forth as a principle or body of principles for explaining a class of phenomena.

In the humanities, one finds theories whose subject matter does not (only) concern empirical data, but rather ideas. Such theories are in the realm of philosophical theories as contrasted with scientific theories. A philosophical theory is not necessarily scientifically testable through experiment.


So Perry is misleading the tea slurpers by using the non-scientific meaning of "theory" in commenting about science. The scientific meaning of the term that he abused here is that evolution is the overwhelmingly accepted explanation ("theory") for the massive amount of empirical data on biological diversity so far collected.

Either he abused the term purposely, or is too stupid himself to know what it means. It doesn't matter which - I wouldn't want a liar or a dope in the White House.

Reminds me of Bush. Did he not know there were no WMD in Iraq, or just not care (like he failed to heed 9/11 warnings)?

Perry would govern just like Bush. Screw up, meanwhile spewing out a steady smokescreen of truthiness to hide his tracks.

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Author: alstroemeria Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1693098 of 1950965
Subject: Re: GOP hates science, loves tea Date: 8/29/2011 7:25 AM
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Why do you suppose they use the term "Theory of Evolution?"

Do you have similar qualms about other scientific theories (gravitation, quantum mechanics...), or just evolution? Is your confidence in science limited by your religious and/or political beliefs?

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1693100 of 1950965
Subject: Re: GOP hates science, loves tea Date: 8/29/2011 8:35 AM
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"Why do you suppose they use the term "Theory of Evolution?""


For the same reason Einstein's hypothesis is called the Theory of Relativity...

Yet we know atom bombs explode...... and that there are gravity wells and the space/time continuum is distorted..... and that light is bent by gravity...and black holes exist.....

It's also the Big Bang Theory

Of course, the alternative is dogma, and if dogma had won out, you'd 'believe' the sun rotates around the earth because the 'experts' of the day (the Pope and his cronies) decreed it.


t.

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Author: commoncents33 Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1693103 of 1950965
Subject: Re: GOP hates science, loves tea Date: 8/29/2011 9:01 AM
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evolution is the overwhelmingly accepted explanation

Yeah, so is anthropogenic global warming.

At one time, a flat earth and spontaneous generation were the consensus too.

If history is a guide, the consensus typically ends up being wrong.

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Author: commoncents33 Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1693104 of 1950965
Subject: Re: GOP hates science, loves tea Date: 8/29/2011 9:04 AM
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the sun rotates around the earth because the 'experts' of the day (the Pope and his cronies) decreed it.


Please give your citation for the official Roman Catholic text which supports that.

Or admit that you do not know what you are talking about and are making false accusations based on your contempt for religion.

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Author: kenm47 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1693116 of 1950965
Subject: Re: GOP hates science, loves tea Date: 8/29/2011 9:31 AM
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"the sun rotates around the earth because the 'experts' of the day (the Pope and his cronies) decreed it.
Please give your citation for the official Roman Catholic text which supports that."

Summary here:

http://www.scripturecatholic.com/geocentrism.html

Lots of discussion here:

http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=362247

Ken

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Author: Colovion Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1693131 of 1950965
Subject: Re: GOP hates science, loves tea Date: 8/29/2011 9:47 AM
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Doesn't matter. I could't care less what the President thinks about evolution. I happen to "believe" in evolution (or however you want to put it.) Before switching majors I was a microbiology major in college, and loved my biology courses (it was the organic chem, physics and calculus I didn't love so much.) But whatever, even if Perry burned evolutionary texts I'd still vote for him over the anti-capitalist, gun-grabbing American-apologist 0bama.

Those things matter, the President's view on evolution does not. I have a lot of good friends who think the Theory of Evolution is crap... so be it.

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Author: MrCynic Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1693145 of 1950965
Subject: Re: GOP hates science, loves tea Date: 8/29/2011 10:08 AM
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The scientific meaning of the term that he abused here is that evolution is the overwhelmingly accepted explanation ("theory") for the massive amount of empirical data on biological diversity so far collected.

That's correct, but I don't see how that contradicts what Perry said. Perry was differentiating the theory of evolution from beliefs, such as belief in God.

Is that what you think the theory of evolution should be? Accepted as Truth like believers accept God? I suspect that's what it means to folks such as yourself.

A real scientist as a scientist believes nothing and is skeptical of everything. Nothing will overturn a believer's belief in God, but a theory can be overturned by the next anomalous fact that comes along.

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Author: nigelwhalmsley Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1693149 of 1950965
Subject: Re: GOP hates science, loves tea Date: 8/29/2011 10:16 AM
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"Doesn't matter. I could't care less what the President thinks about evolution."

II disagree wholeheartedly with your assessment. It very much does matter to me whether our President is educated in fundamental science. There are far too many decisions he may be faced with that absolutely require it. If he is uneducated, he will make a poor decision. We are not a poor third world country, and we can not afford to look like or behave like one.

We need to have smart, educated people running America Inc. It DOES matter.

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Author: nigelwhalmsley Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1693155 of 1950965
Subject: Re: GOP hates science, loves tea Date: 8/29/2011 10:31 AM
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"That's correct, but I don't see how that contradicts what Perry said. Perry was differentiating the theory of evolution from beliefs, such as belief in God."

Perry is on record as saying the creationism and evolution are both taught in Texas public schools (creationism is not), but he clearly believes creationism to be a 'competing theory'.

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Author: proton500 Big red star, 1000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1693159 of 1950965
Subject: Re: GOP hates science, loves tea Date: 8/29/2011 10:34 AM
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noncents:.If history is a guide, the consensus typically ends up being wrong.

You mean like the consensus among IDers?


For centuries Protestant and Catholic churches, basing their teachings on various texts in the Bible, taught that the air was filled with devils, tempests, and witches. Saint Augustine held this belief to be beyond controversy. Saint Thomas Aquinas stated in his Summa Theologica, “Rain and winds, and whatsoever occurs by local impulse alone, can be caused by demons. It is a dogma of faith that the demons can produce winds, storms, and rain of fire from heaven.” Martin Luther asserted that the winds themselves are only good or evil spirits, and declared that a stone thrown into a certain pond in his native city would cause a dreadful storm because of the devils.

kept prisoner there.

http://www.miltontimmons.com/ChruchesVsLightningRod.html


I tell you that lightning is far too erratic and unpredictable to happen without divine intervention. It can never be understood, what with the thunder sometimes at the same time and other times delayed it must be evidence of the battle between good and evil. Those thousands of 'science' types who control the media and all those fake science journals must be trying to bilk the government out of trillions in research grants to promote their godless beliefs.

We must all stop thinking and Believe or god will keep on hitting our steeples again and again like all these churches that have been struck twice.

http://www.google.com/search?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=&am...

And three times!

http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&safe=off&...


Here is a discussion that might help ID dupes.

http://debunkingchristianity.blogspot.com/2009/10/heres-anot...

Here is the anthology of the issue from the time the supreme court ruled against creationism.

http://www.ntskeptics.org/2009/2009december/december2009.htm...

BTW Signature in the cell is total bunk to put it nicely.

http://www.amazon.com/Signature-Cell-Evidence-Intelligent-De...

Total rehashed BS and never published in any respected journals. I don't care what absurdities you may cling to but out here in the real world don't expect them to be believed.

proton

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Author: nigelwhalmsley Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1693171 of 1950965
Subject: Re: GOP hates science, loves tea Date: 8/29/2011 10:58 AM
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"If history is a guide, the consensus typically ends up being wrong."

Actually, that is completely wrong. History shows that science builds upon consensus. As Newton said "If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants".

Exceptions are more memorable, perhaps, but in science, consensus builds over time to provide what is true. History shows it clearly.

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1693197 of 1950965
Subject: Re: GOP hates science, loves tea Date: 8/29/2011 11:44 AM
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"Actually, that is completely wrong. History shows that science builds upon consensus. As Newton said "If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants".

Exceptions are more memorable, perhaps, but in science, consensus builds over time to provide what is true. History shows it clearly. "


Is that why 50% of the population believe in Little Green Men? ANd think that ROswell really happened? And that aliens disappear when you kill them so there is no body to show to anyone?


Yeah, right....

most people think that they can get trillions in benefits from the government and a money fairy pays for it all, too......

t.

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Author: NailThatJello Big gold star, 5000 posts Ticker Guide Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1693206 of 1950965
Subject: Re: GOP hates science, loves tea Date: 8/29/2011 12:03 PM
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At one time, a flat earth and spontaneous generation were the consensus too.

What scientific evidence supported those beliefs? None. They were conjectures. The "theory of evolution" is supported by voluminous evidence.

On the flat earth: Eratosthenes calculated the circumference of the earth in the year 240 BC, based on the assumption that the earth was a sphere, not flat. Along with other ho-hum achievements like calculating the tilt of the earth's axis and the distance from the earth to the Sun, and asserting that there was no scientific basis for Aristotle's racism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eratosthenes

Eratosthenes was also the third librarian of the Great Library of Alexandria, which housed much of the world's scientific knowledge at the time. Political and religious forces had it burned to the ground. And hence we entered the Dark Ages, where it was OK to just make up stuff to explain the world, especially if it scared you into following some religious dogma.

Perry and his tea crackers would like to return us to those times.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Alexandria
Edward Gibbon claimed that the Library of Alexandria was destroyed by Theophilus, Bishop of Alexandria, who ordered the destruction of the Serapeum in 391... In 642, Alexandria was captured by the Muslim army of Amr ibn al `Aas. There are five Arabic sources, all at least 500 years after the supposed events, which mention the fate of the library. Omar replies: "If those books are in agreement with the Quran, we have no need of them; and if these are opposed to the Quran, destroy them."

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Author: MrCynic Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1693208 of 1950965
Subject: Re: GOP hates science, loves tea Date: 8/29/2011 12:04 PM
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We need to have smart, educated people running America Inc. It DOES matter.

I don't think that word, "smart", means what you think it means.

You guys think Obama's smart.

You don't think Bush is smart, yet he accomplished almost everything he set out to do as President. You didn't think Reagan was smart, and he was one of the most effective and consequential presidents ever. You don't think Perry is smart, and he's already more successful that most of you will ever be.

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Author: nigelwhalmsley Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1693212 of 1950965
Subject: Re: GOP hates science, loves tea Date: 8/29/2011 12:09 PM
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[ Exceptions are more memorable, perhaps, but in science, consensus builds over time to provide what is true. History shows it clearly. " ]

"Is that why 50% of the population believe in Little Green Men? ANd think that ROswell really happened? And that aliens disappear when you kill them so there is no body to show to anyone?"

Sorry, I thought we were talking about science.

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Author: nigelwhalmsley Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1693219 of 1950965
Subject: Re: GOP hates science, loves tea Date: 8/29/2011 12:19 PM
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[ We need to have smart, educated people running America Inc. It DOES matter. ]

"I don't think that word, "smart", means what you think it means. You guys think Obama's smart."

He is.

"You don't think Bush is smart, yet he accomplished almost everything he set out to do as President."

Being smart is different from accomplishing what you set out to do - farm animals do that every day.

"You didn't think Reagan was smart, and he was one of the most effective and consequential presidents ever."

Actually, I do think he was smart - I even voted for him. I was disappointed in him, though.

"You don't think Perry is smart, and he's already more successful that most of you will ever be."

If by 'successful' you mean 'rich', then you are right - he is wealthier than I am ever likely to be. But that does not mean he is smart - as in intellectually smart. It just means he is able to take advantage of opportunities for personal gain. That may be considered 'smart', I guess, but I was think more along the lines of being intellectually smart. You know, smart enough to understand that religion does not equal scientific theory. Or, better yet, just understanding what the term 'scientific theory' actually means. he doesn't. That makes him 'not smart' in my view.

His support of ID/creationism makes him not smart, intellectually speaking.

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Author: feedmeNOWhuman Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1693224 of 1950965
Subject: Re: GOP hates science, loves tea Date: 8/29/2011 12:36 PM
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anti-capitalist, gun-grabbing American-apologist 0bama.


Business is making record profits, he has grabbed no guns, and has asserted America's right to defend itself.


Everything you claimed is a lie. As usual.

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Author: jerryab Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1693226 of 1950965
Subject: Re: GOP hates science, loves tea Date: 8/29/2011 12:42 PM
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Is that why 50% of the population believe in Little Green Men?

About 100% believe on March 17 every year.... Green beer, green hats, green everywhere. Yup, they *do* exist !!!

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Author: jerryab Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1693233 of 1950965
Subject: Re: GOP hates science, loves tea Date: 8/29/2011 12:49 PM
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You don't think Bush is smart, yet he accomplished almost everything he set out to do as President.

He also controlled Congress--which wrote every law the way he (the Party/conservatives) wanted.

Note how he FAILED once Congress was NOT under conservative control.

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Author: Maraith Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1693241 of 1950965
Subject: Re: GOP hates science, loves tea Date: 8/29/2011 1:09 PM
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Actually, evolution is a fact.

"Survival of the fittest" is a theory to explain the fact of evolution.

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Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1693322 of 1950965
Subject: Re: GOP hates science, loves tea Date: 8/29/2011 5:50 PM
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We hate bad science coming from the msm and left but really enjoy green tea.

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Subject: Re: GOP hates science, loves tea Date: 8/29/2011 7:12 PM
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Perry would govern just like Bush. Screw up, meanwhile spewing out a steady smokescreen of truthiness to hide his tracks.


Read my lips: No new Texans.

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Author: Gingko100 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1693400 of 1950965
Subject: Re: GOP hates science, loves tea Date: 8/30/2011 12:05 AM
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Either he abused the term purposely, or is too stupid himself to know what it means.
Most Americans don't understand the correct, technical use of the term "scientific theory." He's merely one of a vast hoard of people in this country who are scientifically illiterate. It's cross-party, cross-region, cross-everything.

Mostly Americans can't be bothered with math and science. We like to think we lead the world in it, but that's mostly due to imported brain power these days.

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Author: Gingko100 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1693407 of 1950965
Subject: Re: GOP hates science, loves tea Date: 8/30/2011 12:59 AM
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I don't think that word, "smart", means what you think it means.
He can be plenty smart and still be a scientific ignoramus. It means I wouldn't want him to build a bridge, so any medical research, build rockets, or try and teach science to anyone including my cat. But that doesn't mean he isn't smart.

I know plenty of very bright humanities majors who are terrified of math and science. They are bright, articulate, well-read people. They just don't know a damn thing about science and think somehow their gut instinct is the same as a scientific education and training.

They can write novels, preach, be politicians, sell stuff, write business books, dance, argue, practice the law, etc etc etc etc for any number of fields. But they really can't start telling me - as an engineer - about engineering and science. Not with any credibility.

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Author: Goofyhoofy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1693421 of 1950965
Subject: Re: GOP hates science, loves tea Date: 8/30/2011 6:57 AM
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Those things matter, the President's view on evolution does not. I have a lot of good friends who think the Theory of Evolution is crap...

Then you have quite a collection of astonishingly ignorant friends.

so be it.

Yeah. Since when does mere "knowledge" matter?
 


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