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No. of Recommendations: 53
And you thought the GOP couldn't hate women anymore than they already do:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/24/new-mexico-abortion...


New Mexico Bill Would Criminalize Abortions After Rape As 'Tampering With Evidence'


A Republican lawmaker in New Mexico introduced a bill on Wednesday that would legally require victims of rape to carry their pregnancies to term in order to use the fetus as evidence for a sexual assault trial. House Bill 206, introduced by state Rep. Cathrynn Brown (R), would charge a rape victim who ended her pregnancy with a third-degree felony for "tampering with evidence."


Third-degree felonies in New Mexico carry a sentence of up to three years in prison.




There is an exemption for when the rapist is a GOP politician, of course.
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No. of Recommendations: 18
There have been Republican Presidents in the past. I haven't always agreed with them and some were godd, some bad. I don't think they've benn on average much better or much worse than the Democrats when in power.

However, until now I have never feared for the prospect that a Republican might get into power and the harm that it would do to me personally.

And I don't even live in America!

The GOP and their ardent supporters are complete lunatics!
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That got to be the one of the most ridiculous bills ever introduced. As a woman, you would think she would stop and consider if it happened to her. I don't see how an aborted fetus wouldn't be considered evidence on par with a full-term baby. The DNA is the evidence and that isn't going to change.
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No. of Recommendations: 4
They're declaring open season on women. Unless the woman wants to get saddled with a rape baby, she's going to have to NOT report the rape. Then she can get the abortion without "tampering with evidence".

The GOP has gone so far off the rails I'm not sure they can even see the rails anymore.
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The GOP has gone so far off the rails I'm not sure they can even see the rails anymore.

---------


And yet these people continue to be elected.
I guess this is what the people actually want.

AM
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No. of Recommendations: 4
I guess this is what the people actually want.

What I want is to see (or at least hear about) the author of that bill dying in a fiery car crash in which they are conscious until they die.

And, while we're at it, ditto for the moron who authored the rape-by-ultrasonic-probe-before-you-get-abortion law. Plus a few others.

1poorguy (can you tell I'm getting fed-up with these a-holes?)
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No. of Recommendations: 7
And yet these people continue to be elected.
I guess this is what the people actually want


You're sounding like me, now.

You watch this going on, and you understand how Germans, who weren't Nazis, must have felt in the 1930's.
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1poorguy (can you tell I'm getting fed-up with these a-holes?)

They don't care. They've been saved. They don't have to pay the slightest bit of attention to anything you might think because it is the work of Satan. You're going to hell.
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You're going to hell.

As long as they die screaming in that fiery crash, fine.

And I hope Harry Reid is their passenger when they do. And John Bonehead.

(not in the mood for any of these clowns today)
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No. of Recommendations: 9
As long as they die screaming in that fiery crash, fine.

I get, and share, the anger and frustration.

But

Throttle back.

-spookysquid
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Your title is misleading. This is the sick act of one person, not the entire GOP.
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There is an exemption for when the rapist is a GOP politician, of course.

That's a lie.
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No. of Recommendations: 34
Your title is misleading. This is the sick act of one person, not the entire GOP.



The GOP platform states that they oppose abortion in ALL circumstances. This bill is just one logical expression of that platform.


So I don't think it's misleading at all.
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No. of Recommendations: 5
There is an exemption for when the rapist is a GOP politician, of course.

That's a lie.


Um, duh. Though I don't think that I'd categorize sarcasm as a lie.

-spookysquid
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You watch this going on, and you understand how Germans, who weren't Nazis, must have felt in the 1930's.

That's actually a pretty apt comparison.

6
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No. of Recommendations: 1
Your title is misleading. This is the sick act of one person, not the entire GOP.

Have you found some GOP members who disapprove?

6
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No. of Recommendations: 2
Your title is misleading. This is the sick act of one person, not the entire GOP.

Have you found some GOP members who disapprove?

6

--------

That's what I was wondering.
Where are all the Republicans yelling at this "one sick person"?
I want a list of names. I want to know what action they are going to take to shut her down.

AM
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No. of Recommendations: 16
That's what I was wondering.
Where are all the Republicans yelling at this "one sick person"?
I want a list of names. I want to know what action they are going to take to shut her down.


And if she's such an outlier, why all the anti-choice measures introduced by Republicans *everywhere*?

This woman is 100% representative of the GOP platform. I haven't seen or heard a single thing (except for some of them suggesting maybe they should lie more about their platform in 2014 and 16) from a single person in the GOP that contradicts this.

6
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No. of Recommendations: 2
Throttle back.

They don't throttle back. I'm starting to think they are gaining ground because we do. Maybe we should stop it so we can stop them before they turn this into a pre-9/11 Afghanistan.
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As long as they die screaming in that fiery crash, fine.

And I hope Harry Reid is their passenger when they do. And John Bonehead.


This kind of sentiment is beneath you.
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No. of Recommendations: 2
This kind of sentiment is beneath you.

The prospect of two more years of Congress like the last four years has me a bit perturbed. I'm human. And I'm fed-up with these clowns. GOP clowns like the author of the bill in this thread, and Dem clowns like Reid who couldn't conjure up a full set of testicles among the lot of them.

I think I know how the French people felt in the 1790s. The idea of getting some guillotines is very appealing. (And the symbolism is powerful, too.)
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No. of Recommendations: 2
I think I get what the bill's author is trying to do. She's since clarified, but it was in the language of the bill (which was not written all that well, IMHO).

What she's going for is trying to make it fall under evidence tampering if an abortion is performed with the intent to destroy evidence of a crime, and she was (she says) aiming at men who coerce or force women to have an abortion to cover up rape/incest.

Which is kind of a thing...there are men who will financially threaten or intimidate women (or girls, or girls' mothers/caretakers) to get an abortion. This is most "effective" if the girl is young and the rapist is mom's boyfriend/husband and they're dependent on his income.

I have no idea how much a problem this is or if it is a problem at all these days. In the privacy of a clinic, I would hope that the medical staff could figure out if they're dealing with someone who is being pushed into having an abortion they don't want.

I wouldn't think there would be that many women wanting to continue their pregnancy that resulted from rape, but if they wanted to, and the rapist tried to force force her into an abortion she didn't want, to cover up what he did, I'd be fine with the courts adding that onto the rape charges.

It seems like they could get to the same place by using existing laws about intimidating witnesses and tampering with evidence.

It does sound an awful lot like the victim is responsible for incubating evidence against her rapist, which is pretty "war on women" sounding.

cm
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No. of Recommendations: 3
It does sound an awful lot like the victim is responsible for incubating evidence against her rapist, which is pretty "war on women" sounding.

I don't buy her explanation. Any 8th grader should know that you can abort the fetus, get a tissue sample, and you have all the DNA evidence you need. There is no "tampering" here. Barring a lawyerly reading of the bill that tells us otherwise, it sounds like this net captures most or all women. Not just women being "forced to have an abortion to cover up a rape or incest".

I call BS (not on you, cm, but on the bill's author)
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What she's going for is trying to make it fall under evidence tampering if an abortion is performed with the intent to destroy evidence of a crime, and she was (she says) aiming at men who coerce or force women to have an abortion to cover up rape/incest.




Right, so the obvious thing to do is throw the woman in jail.
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I call BS (not on you, cm, but on the bill's author)




Me, too.
In fact, I call double-BS on the thing.
She may be able to fool the idiots who put her in office, but she's not making any headway with me.

AM
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I don't buy her explanation. Any 8th grader should know that you can abort the fetus, get a tissue sample, and you have all the DNA evidence you need. There is no "tampering" here. Barring a lawyerly reading of the bill that tells us otherwise, it sounds like this net captures most or all women. Not just women being "forced to have an abortion to cover up a rape or incest".

I call BS


Or you could call BS on HuffPo, which is where I think the BS should be directed unless the underscored stuff was added in the interim. Then it's probably just poor writing since she has stated her intent and the underscored stuff seems to follow that.

I followed the link to the actual bill and skimmed it. IANAL but what it seems to say is that if you get an abortion with the intent to cover up a crime you are tampering with evidence. So yeah this could impact women who are not being compelled or coerced. I don't see it saying you have to bring it to term nor that you couldn't get one (as long as the evidence isn't destroyed).
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No. of Recommendations: 2
Looked at some more info about this woman--yeah, it sounds like it was an attempt by an anti-choicer to chip away at legal abortion, she got caught, and is now back-pedaling furiously. That her defense was she didn't read her own bill...wow.

cm
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No. of Recommendations: 11
I think I get what the bill's author is trying to do. She's since clarified, but it was in the language of the bill (which was not written all that well, IMHO).

What she's going for is trying to make it fall under evidence tampering if an abortion is performed with the intent to destroy evidence of a crime, and she was (she says) aiming at men who coerce or force women to have an abortion to cover up rape/incest...

...I wouldn't think there would be that many women wanting to continue their pregnancy that resulted from rape, but if they wanted to, and the rapist tried to force force her into an abortion she didn't want, to cover up what he did, I'd be fine with the courts adding that onto the rape charges.


There are several conditions that define rape, and pregnancy isn't one of them. Pregnancy is not evidence of rape.

The purpose of this bill is to make it more difficult to obtain an abortion in the event of rape or incest, by turning the victims into criminals.
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No. of Recommendations: 3
Umm, pregnancy is evidence of rape, in certain circumstances.

It is an ugly fact that persons who are mentally incapacitated are also victims of sexual assault. A woman can be mentally incapacitated and remain fertile. A woman who is mentally incapacitated is of course unable to give consent to anything. If a woman who is mentally incapacitated becomes pregnant, that is evidence that she was assaulted.

That's what I learned in nursing school this week.
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I want to step into this lightly . However I question the existance of this bill. Althogh nothing would suprise me . From any politican from either side of the isle.
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Nope, no throttling back. I want them all to die as soon as possible, preferably agonizingly, but of natural causes. I do not advocate violence even against such filth.

Wessex
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What difference does it make?
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This is the sick act of one person, not the entire GOP.

Have you found some GOP members who disapprove?

The burden of proof would be with the one making the (false) assertion.
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The purpose of this bill is to make it more difficult to obtain an abortion in the event of rape or incest, by turning the victims into criminals.

As much as I try to be understanding of these people's religious dementia, when they try to hurt others all I can think is they're sick.
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This is the sick act of one person, not the entire GOP.

Have you found some GOP members who disapprove?

The burden of proof would be with the one making the (false) assertion.




Well, since you made the false assertion that only one member of the GOP supports this, it's up to you to prove it.
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I'm not quite sure why you're so proud of your mistake, but here is the proof that you demand:

"A Republican lawmaker in New Mexico introduced a bill"

Please note that the word "lawmaker" is singular and that I'm done with this stupid argument.
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No. of Recommendations: 8
I'm not quite sure why you're so proud of your mistake, but here is the proof that you demand:

"A Republican lawmaker in New Mexico introduced a bill"

Please note that the word "lawmaker" is singular and that I'm done with this stupid argument.




I already pointed out that the GOP platform opposes abortion in any and all circumstances, which refutes your claim that this bill is the viewpoint of only one person. One person wrote it, but the GOP platform proves that they all support it.
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No. of Recommendations: 3
At first read I thought the author simply goofed on the language. Even her Dem counterpart said it was simply a poorly written attempt to enable prosecution of incest and rape events; if the intent of the abortion was to destroy evidence, it's a crime.

HOWEVER.... it opens wider the door to invasion of a womans privacy.

"Honey, if you don't tell us who the daddy is so we can determine why y'all did the nasty, and if there's something to prosecute, we cannot help you."

Any abortion request could be considered to be an attempt to conceal or destroy evidence of a crime. Guilty until proven innocent.

The bill would invade a womens right to privacy and doctor/patient confidentiality.
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No. of Recommendations: 0
And if it comes to a vote we'll see how many just in the NM legislature support it.
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And if it comes to a vote we'll see how many just in the NM legislature support it.

The bill would most likely receive unanimous support from the Republicans, and perhaps a handful of dems who are pandering to the religious voter base.
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No. of Recommendations: 2
And if it comes to a vote we'll see how many just in the NM legislature support it.

The bill would most likely receive unanimous support from the Republicans, and perhaps a handful of dems who are pandering to the religious voter base.



where's Josh when we need her ?

or someone could post a poll at the GOP boards


(>:
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