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Author: goofnoff Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 465340  
Subject: Grant demands recessionary depression Date: 2/24/2014 10:43 AM
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Grant, from Grant's Interest Rate Observer was on Squawk Box this morning with his shorts in a bunch, He's apoplectic that we didn't have a deflationary depression to (clear the markets). Dam* fed interfered with all the fun. In one breathe he's saying the Fed's actions delayed the recovery and in the next he's saying they did so by preventing a depression. Huh! We tried that do nothing Fed posture back in 1929 to 1939. Needed to clear the markets then, also. How'd that work out.

That clown who runs Squawk Box was cheering Grant on.

Dammit no depression! A good depression would have showed the workers who's boss.
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Author: PosFCF Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 445381 of 465340
Subject: Re: Grant demands recessionary depression Date: 2/24/2014 12:45 PM
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goofnoff

We tried that do nothing Fed posture back in 1929 to 1939.

I think it would be in your better interest to read what actions were really engaged in during the time-frame you mention rather than drink whatever Koolaid has been handed to you.

I'd suggest a book on the Depression Era itself, perhaps Murray Rothbard perhaps someone else, but there were a lot of things (monetary and fiscal) that were engaged in during that period.

What was not done, was to leave in power the idiots who brought on the hyper economic activity that had to result in a crash. That is one of the big differences between then and now. Another big difference was the creation of laws and oversight agencies that were clear enough and strong enough to prevent another bubble for a generation or more. This time, laws have been passed with intentional lack of clarity, have been weakened in committees, and then have been delayed in implementation. Nothing significant has changed, except the taxpayer's bills are much higher and the "bright boys & girls" yachts are bigger and fancier.

That clown who runs Squawk Box was cheering Grant on.

Perhaps because he sees that an important part of healthy capitalism is that those who allocate capital foolishly are washed out of the system when the market corrects. That has not been allowed to happen this time, thus those same morons are still lining their pockets with profits today knowing the public will pay for losses when the house of cards collapses. They didn't pay last time due to "bail out" and they won't pay next time due to "bail in".

There are any number of middle grounds between European-style austerity and American monetary foolishness.

A good depression would have showed the workers who's boss.

We'll have another good depression and it will be a doozy. However, if we continue to privatize profits and socialize losses in the next depression, it will be followed successively by deeper and deeper negative experiences until we finally let the system wring out the "bright boys and girls" who bring us these "can't fail" fat tail black swans.

Austerity isn't the point of contention, it is the point used to distract us from the changes which, if left unmade, keep lining the pockets the "bright boys and girls" who pay no personal price for "good" ideas gone awry.

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Author: rubberthinking Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 445386 of 465340
Subject: Re: Grant demands recessionary depression Date: 2/24/2014 1:15 PM
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However, if we continue to privatize profits and socialize losses in the next depression,

In the long periods between depressions the conservatives would say we socialize profits and privatize losses. It is called taxation. And you know I cant blame the conservatives for feeling that way.

Everyone can be taken for a ride. That does not make them guilty of anything at all. The bankers simply all did what was the order of the day. They were not mass killers. They dont need the electric chair because people of limited means decided that a McMansion needed their name on the deed.

If we are going to talk about the bankers being ejits we need to look at the goldbugs since 2011. Any bull market is a ride and the music stops eventually.

I am not saying I am burning any trails, but lets be honest here the end of the world is not priced into the markets for a reason.

As for the laws that came out of the Great Depression, from tax hikes to the S&L institutions, they all caused the massive rise in inflation in the late 60s and throughout the 70s. The laws coming out of the Great Depression were the worst set of mess ups this world has ever seen. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. If we suffer inflation in the period 20 years out through 30 years out like that of the 1970s we can permanently kiss the dollar good bye. The USD would look more like the Italian Lira did in the 1980s. You can hand it all over to the dictators in China. And therefor you can count of a nuclear war for your kids and grandchildren. They will perish. We need all countries to have wealth. That does not mean we need to had over a complete economic and military victory to a country that is a sick dictatorship for the foreseeable future. The US must remain at the top of any list of military powers for the very long haul. China is much better off if we do remain the leading military and economic power.

Dave

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Author: goofnoff Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 445410 of 465340
Subject: Re: Grant demands recessionary depression Date: 2/24/2014 4:31 PM
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I think it would be in your better interest to read what actions were really engaged in during the time-frame you mention rather than drink whatever Koolaid has been handed to you

And the Koolaid is that Mellon shut down credit and economic activity thus destroying any hope of a recovery.

ll have another good depression and it will be a doozy

We might also be hit by an asteroid. But in the seventy odd years the Fed gave up on the austerity nonsense we've gone further economically than any society in history. that is roughly as long as I've lived. If the right doesn't hurry with another depression I might miss the whole thing.

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Author: PucksFool Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 445414 of 465340
Subject: Re: Grant demands recessionary depression Date: 2/24/2014 5:01 PM
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I heard him on Bloomberg last week and Vonnie Quinn was lapping up the tripe he was ladling out.

PF

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Author: PosFCF Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 445419 of 465340
Subject: Re: Grant demands recessionary depression Date: 2/24/2014 6:08 PM
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And the Koolaid is that Mellon shut down credit and economic activity thus destroying any hope of a recovery.

In fact, if it wasn't for President Coolidge's and Treasury Secretary Mellon's cheer leading of the markets in the mid-1920s, the markets might have corrected from much lower highs and the Great Depression may not have been any more significant than the other recessions we experienced.

Oddly enough, when the crash hit early in Hoover's term as President, the following few sentences are quoted from Rothbard's "America's Great Depression":

There was opposition within the Administration, headed, surprisingly enough, considering his interventions throughout the boom, by Secretary of the Treasury Mellon. Mellon headed what Hoover scornfully termed "the leave-it-alone-liquidationists." Mellon wanted to " liquidate labor, liquidate stocks, liquidate the farmers, liquidate real estate," and so "purge the rottenness" from the economy, lower the high cost of living, and spur hard work and efficient enterprise.

Does that Mellon sound anything like Paulson or Bernanke?

We might also be hit by an asteroid. But in the seventy odd years the Fed gave up on the austerity nonsense we've gone further economically than any society in history. that is roughly as long as I've lived. If the right doesn't hurry with another depression I might miss the whole thing.

What are you defining as austerity? As far as seeing another Depression, if it weren't for public assistance (i.e. disability anyone?), we'd have Hoovervilles right now (I just didn't know it was a Fed program!). If it weren't for food stamps we'd have soup kitchens (Again that sneaky Fed, who knew they were the managers of that program too?). If it weren't for the screw up on the robo-signing, how many homeless would there be? Geez, that clever Fed behind that too!

Just because you can't see what is front of you doesn't mean it doesn't exist. And just because the Fed put the cost of the bail-out on the public tab to be paid later doesn't take away the cost anymore than just because your new car was bought with a car loan means it didn't cost anything.

What you call the result of the Fed, I call living beyond our means by using credit and making promises that someone else will either have to honor or default on.

Color me less than impressed but I think you're missing the whole thing already, but that's OK, this is going to get worse and worse until even you can't miss it. I'm pretty sure we'll be distracted away from the failure of the Fed by something else....like a war, or something so that we can blame it all on anything but the true cause.

Mellon......thanks for the laugh!

Poz

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Author: PosFCF Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 445422 of 465340
Subject: Re: Grant demands recessionary depression Date: 2/24/2014 7:01 PM
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goofnoff

BTW....forgot to mention I've started reading another book you might like: Inflated: How Money and Debt Built the American Dream
http://www.amazon.com/Inflated-Money-Built-American-Dream-eb...

I really do want to understand not only where we are today and how we got here, I want to do it thoroughly enough that perhaps I can get a glimmer of what comes next......kinda like peeking at the back of a crossword puzzle book on a stumper of a clue.

Poz

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Author: namkato Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 445426 of 465340
Subject: Re: Grant demands recessionary depression Date: 2/24/2014 9:30 PM
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We'll have another good depression and it will be a doozy.

I'd suggest a book on the Depression Era itself
================================================

Translation:
My prediction of a depression was not wrong, it was just early.
Notice that there is no time limit on the prediction. Some day.

Forget the book on the Great Depression. Bernanke knows more than all the authors of all the books on the subject.

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Author: PosFCF Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 445427 of 465340
Subject: Re: Grant demands recessionary depression Date: 2/24/2014 9:45 PM
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Translation:
My prediction of a depression was not wrong, it was just early.
Notice that there is no time limit on the prediction. Some day.


Question 1: Has this country had any depressions in its 200+ year history?

Question 2: Has anything been done to prevent future depressions after the previous ones?

Question 3: Have they worked?

Ergo: there will be another depression and another after that, ad nauseam. No, no time limits, just certainty due to past history of depressions and no meaningful change to prevent any in the future.

Forget the book on the Great Depression. Bernanke knows more than all the authors of all the books on the subject.

Yeah his predecessor did too, the book name for him was Maestro
http://www.amazon.com/Maestro-Greenspans-American-Boom-Green...

Seems that Greenspan's rep a number of years on no longer qualifies for the rubric.

Keep translating....you seem to have a flare for it.

Poz

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Author: PosFCF Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 445433 of 465340
Subject: Re: Grant demands recessionary depression Date: 2/24/2014 10:16 PM
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Forget the book on the Great Depression. Bernanke knows more than all the authors of all the books on the subject.

Say What? 30 Ben Bernanke Quotes That Are So Stupid That You Won’t Know Whether To Laugh Or Cry
http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/say-what-30-ben-...

I'll only quote a few of my favorites of the aforementioned genius:

#1 (October 20, 2005) "House prices have risen by nearly 25 percent over the past two years. Although speculative activity has increased in some areas, at a national level these price increases largely reflect strong economic fundamentals."

#4 (January 10, 2008) "The Federal Reserve is not currently forecasting a recession."

#13 (October 31, 2007) "It is not the responsibility of the Federal Reserve – nor would it be appropriate – to protect lenders and investors from the consequences of their financial decisions."


No further comment on his "genius" is needed.....but reading the rest of the 30 shows, if nothing else, the level of the education in this country if this man is considered one of our greatest.

Poz

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Author: namkato Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 445434 of 465340
Subject: Re: Grant demands recessionary depression Date: 2/24/2014 11:13 PM
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Say What? 30 Ben Bernanke Quotes That Are So Stupid That You Won’t Know Whether To Laugh Or Cry
http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/say-what-30-ben-......

Headlines from the Blog:

The Economic Collapse
The Beginning of the End
Harry Dent's Forecast (LOL he's been predicting disaster since the 70s)
Food Hoarding for Pennies
Gold Coins
Silver Coins
Military Surplus
Emergency Food
The sneaky prepper trick to hoard massive amounts of food super cheap
Survival Mom

===============================================

Poz, you obviously do not care about the damage to your credibility by linking tin foil hat websites like that one. Bernanke missed on the 2008 meltdown, but he then realized his mistake and was the main actor in bringing us back from the abyss:

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=^GSPC&t=5y&l=on&...

You need to listen to experts like Bernanke and Yellen, and give up on those internet cranks and crackpots trying to make a buck off of gullible people by spreading unfounded fear.

People should visit that site to get a few good belly laughs.

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Author: rubberthinking Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 445448 of 465340
Subject: Re: Grant demands recessionary depression Date: 2/25/2014 3:12 AM
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In fact, if it wasn't for President Coolidge's and Treasury Secretary Mellon's cheer leading of the markets in the mid-1920s, the markets might have corrected from much lower highs and the Great Depression may not have been any more significant than the other recessions we experienced.


That is the best anyone would do by reading opinions as facts. This is not from any econ textbook.

Dave

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Author: rubberthinking Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 445449 of 465340
Subject: Re: Grant demands recessionary depression Date: 2/25/2014 3:17 AM
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I really do want to understand not only where we are today and how we got here, I want to do it thoroughly enough that perhaps I can get a glimmer of what comes next......kinda like peeking at the back of a crossword puzzle book on a stumper of a clue.

Poz

1. Bull market in the SPX
2. Bear market in gold
3. Bear market in bonds
4. Bull market in the USD
5. Massive increase in global trade
6. US federal deficits shrinking for years to come
7. Much further out a few tax hikes to cut of the budding inflation
8. A slow rise in yields will pick up its pace much futher out as well.

For 7 and 8 we are talking over 15 years from now. And for 1 through 6 I am looking for those to begin some months or a couple of years from now. Some would say the bull market in equities is already here to stay. And of course the bear market in gold will only get worse.

Dave

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Author: PosFCF Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 445458 of 465340
Subject: Re: Grant demands recessionary depression Date: 2/25/2014 9:44 AM
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People should visit that site to get a few good belly laughs.

I think a good belly laugh is good for everyone every now and again and am glad you can appreciate that among those others that the linked site provides there are 30 provided by Bernanke.

You indicated that Mr. Bernanke knows more than all of those who studied the Great Depression. My question to you then, is how did this Recession happen on his watch?

BTW--The Google search I did to find the site I linked was "Bernanke quotes that were wrong"
http://www.bing.com/search?q=bernanke%20quotes%20that%20were...

The linked site was the first hit. Google indicates there are 47,199,999 more sites.

Poz

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Author: namkato Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 445464 of 465340
Subject: Re: Grant demands recessionary depression Date: 2/25/2014 11:01 AM
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You indicated that Mr. Bernanke knows more than all of those who studied the Great Depression. My question to you then, is how did this Recession happen on his watch?
====================================================

How did metar completely miss the recovery this last five years?

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Author: PosFCF Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 445473 of 465340
Subject: Re: Grant demands recessionary depression Date: 2/25/2014 12:38 PM
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How did metar completely miss the recovery this last five years?

So, you can't answer the question.

To answer yours, METAR the last letter stands for the concept of Risk. The discussion here is about Risk, not Reward.

Go to an underwriters convention and you'll also hear about Risk, we're all experiencing the net results of when mortgage underwriting risk and Credit Default Swap risk are ignored.

If you want a board that discusses the merits and opportunities available in the market today, there are many: Value Hounds, Liquid Lounge, and then all the pay sites.

This board is no more about the good side of the market than it is about the bad side. It is about discovering what risks exist on a macro scale, what magnitude those risks are, and what time-scale might be involved if discernible. We assume a plurality of risks exist and so we have plenty of topics for conversation.

Those who ignore the purpose of the title of the board and visit here anyway are only displaying their ignorance of the American language when they complain that we haven't picked winners for them. What is sad is that often they don't even realize it.

Poz

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Author: namkato Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 445508 of 465340
Subject: Re: Grant demands recessionary depression Date: 2/25/2014 3:53 PM
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Those who ignore the purpose of the title of the board and visit here anyway are only displaying their ignorance of the American language when they complain that we haven't picked winners for them. What is sad is that often they don't even realize it.

Poz
========================================================

The third letter in metar stands for trends. Looking back over the last five years, one trend stands out. That trend is economic recovery. Underwriter conventions are big on risk, but they only care about risk in relation to profits.

We haven't had a 100 post gold thread for a couple of weeks, so we are overdue for another one.

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Author: namkato Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 445510 of 465340
Subject: Re: Grant demands recessionary depression Date: 2/25/2014 4:05 PM
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You indicated that Mr. Bernanke knows more than all of those who studied the Great Depression. My question to you then, is how did this Recession happen on his watch?
=====================================================

Many predicted the housing crash. However, no credible sources predicted that Lehman, Bear Stearn, et al would precipitate a global meltdown, except for the permabears who are not credible.

If the Fed had stepped in with drastic measures prior to the 2008 crash, right now, instead of talking about how a recession happened on Bernanke's watch, we would be talking about an overarching Fed who killed the golden goose on a whim. We would be moaning about how big government killed jobs arbitrarily. The chances that metar would now be cheering Bernanke for preventing a crash is about zero. Posters would be denying that a crash had been coming.

Poz, you get it both ways. Crash; Bernanke sucks. No crash because Fed acted strongly; Bernanke still sucks.

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Author: PosFCF Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 445517 of 465340
Subject: Re: Grant demands recessionary depression Date: 2/25/2014 4:34 PM
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The third letter in metar stands for trends. Looking back over the last five years, one trend stands out. That trend is economic recovery.

Another trend stands out: Massive Fed intervention and massive OECD central bank intervention. I think you are conflating market index movement with economic recovery. They are not the same thing or the Fed would have already met its dual mandate of low inflation and low unemployment.

Personally, I don't happen to think that markets going up because seniors are forced to put money into them because they can't get better than close to zero rates from their banks is a sustainable trend.

Given that, I've made decent money on individual stocks but this is not the board to discuss individual stocks.

Now, tell me what happens when (not if) the S&P 500 goes down 10%? My answer is that many seniors will run for the exits, making normal 10% correction much deeper, then the institutional money which was only in the markets for the same reason will leave, etc.

Personally, I'll likely stay in the market but shift allocations. Seniors though have to pray that nothing else happens to cause rates to rise because then the interest rate swap derivatives issues come into play, and then they become subject to bail-in fun and games.

Poz

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Author: PosFCF Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 445518 of 465340
Subject: Re: Grant demands recessionary depression Date: 2/25/2014 4:37 PM
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Poz, you get it both ways. Crash; Bernanke sucks. No crash because Fed acted strongly; Bernanke still sucks.

So, you're saying Bernanke is a man who worries about how the public feels about him rather than doing the right thing?

Reread those 30 quotes, he either had no clue or he lied to Congress, or both.

Poz

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Author: rubberthinking Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 445545 of 465340
Subject: Re: Grant demands recessionary depression Date: 2/25/2014 11:54 PM
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We haven't had a 100 post gold thread for a couple of weeks, so we are overdue for another one.

Namkato,

Be careful what you wish for. Risk gold? Trend gold? Just because Poz cites risk as the factor of the board's intentions does not mean he wont buy as much risk as possible.

American language? Really English was the last dominant language spoken in North America. You know the English with the bad grammar and poor spelling along with the limited idiom. Yeah that English.

Dave

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Author: aleax Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Favorite Fools Global Fool Pro Community Winner Motley Fool One Everlasting Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 445551 of 465340
Subject: Re: Grant demands recessionary depression Date: 2/26/2014 12:39 AM
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I really do want to understand not only where we are today and how we got here, I want to do it thoroughly enough that perhaps I can get a glimmer of what comes next......kinda like peeking at the back of a crossword puzzle book on a stumper of a clue.

I imagine you've already ready James Grant's (yep the one in the subj, of "Interest rate observer" fame;-) classic "Money of the Mind", http://www.amazon.com/Money-Mind-How-1980s-That/dp/037452401... -- dated but still a great read and I suspect aligned with your preconceptions. If you haven't, I would recommend it. Agree or disagree, Grant's an entertaining writer -- and the further the subject, when he writes history, the better the picture he draws [though my dislike for John Adams was barely dented by Grant's worthwhile, long biography of him -- Alexander Hamilton remains my personal hero for that era, with his fierce foe Thomas Jefferson a close second;-)].

If you agree with me that it's indispensable to fight our own preconceptions (AKA "confirmation bias") you may also want to read Graeber's "Debt, the first 5000 years" -- http://www.amazon.com/Debt-First-5-000-Years-ebook/dp/B00513... -- almost a mirror image (an anthropologist's perspective versus a journalist's, a millennia-long world-wide broad-brush picture versus a detailed single-country history of a century, a guy moving towards a libertarian perspective from a left-wing anarchist background versus one moving towards the same distant point from a right-wing background...), but reading both in close succession may offer opportunity for a new synthesis, also integrating your own personal viewpoint and background.

Too many of us react "guts-wise" to the concept of `debt` -- a point Graeber covers in depth, but on which I think Grant would not disagree.

Just think of the various translations in English of one verse of the Lord's Prayer, the one starting with "forgive us" and continuing with "our debts", "our sins", "our trespasses", in the various versions. "Debt == sin == trespass" -- doesn't get much sharper than that;-).

When we shut down the Reason that the Good Lord chose to bestow upon us, and rely instead exclusively on "our guts", be it one way or another, we're anyway not really living up to our moral duties, in my very personal world-view. Take the "guts" into account, by all means -- but, only under the strictest, data-driven scrutiny by Reason, Prudence, and, ideally, Wisdom. To cultivate all of the latter supreme virtues, fight the confirmation bias that's inherent in all of us, by making it a point to regularly read, study, and fairly ponder, well-written [*] arguments coming from viewpoints that are very far away from yours.

[*] I don't think one has to put up with badly-written, senseless rants, unless, maybe, one has a LOT of sins to expiate;-)

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Author: aleax Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Favorite Fools Global Fool Pro Community Winner Motley Fool One Everlasting Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 445552 of 465340
Subject: Re: Grant demands recessionary depression Date: 2/26/2014 12:43 AM
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Bernanke knows more than all the authors of all the books on the subject.

...does that include himself in http://www.amazon.com/Essays-Great-Depression-Ben-Bernanke-e... ...?-)

That would make it a unique case of a guy knowing more than himself!-)

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Author: rubberthinking Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 445554 of 465340
Subject: Re: Grant demands recessionary depression Date: 2/26/2014 12:47 AM
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Given that, I've made decent money on individual stocks but this is not the board to discuss individual stocks.


Boy talk is cheap. I wish you were reading me, I'd call your bluff.

We can freely discuss individual stocks on this board.

Dave

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Author: rubberthinking Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 445555 of 465340
Subject: Re: Grant demands recessionary depression Date: 2/26/2014 12:56 AM
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That would make it a unique case of a guy knowing more than himself!-)

Aleax,

You are one of the most competitive sorts on this board, but you know that Namkato was alluding to his studies and writings.

Poz is easily misled and rabidly a believer. It has nothing to do with authors that will not support his biases or posters who seemingly belittle him. It has to do with his lack of ability.

Hey he is a leader on this board.

Dave

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Author: aleax Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Favorite Fools Global Fool Pro Community Winner Motley Fool One Everlasting Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 445614 of 465340
Subject: Re: Grant demands recessionary depression Date: 2/26/2014 6:07 PM
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You are one of the most competitive sorts on this board

Nothing "competitive" in my innocent, dry quip. Sometimes I try to be funny, I hardly manage, but, hey, that's why I won't quit my day job.

Back in high school I was indeed in a competitive debate team, as I'm sure were many others, but that was over 40 years ago, no trace left.

What IS left is the lesson to study both sides' arguments and data just as thoroughly (the subject of a debate was known well in advance to allow preparation, but we'd be told which side we were to defend only just before it began, thus making it obvious you did need to understand both sides in depth -- not all that hard for a Libra like me, actually;-)...

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