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The only safe society against Criminals, Crazies and Governmental Tyranny is an armed society. Drunk drivers kill WAY more people than these mass shootings. This whole subjects stinks of a hidden agenda. Our government is ONCE AGAIN--capitalizing on unfortunate events, trying to rip away our Civil Liberties...

• A 1997 high school shooting in Pearl, Miss., was halted by the school's vice principal after he retrieved the Colt .45 he kept in his truck.
• A 1998 middle school shooting ended when a man living next door heard gunfire and apprehended the shooter with his shotgun.
• A 2002 terrorist attack at an Israeli school was quickly stopped by an armed teacher and a school guard.
• A 2002 law school shooting in Grundy, Va., came to an abrupt conclusion when students carrying firearms confronted the shooter.
• A 2007 mall shooting in Ogden, Utah, ended when an armed off-duty police officer intervened.
• A 2009 workplace shooting in Houston, Texas, was halted by two coworkers who carried concealed handguns.
• A 2012 church shooting in Aurora, Colo., was stopped by a member of the congregation carrying a gun.
• At the recent mall shooting in Portland, Ore., the gunman took his own life minutes after being confronted by a shopper carrying a concealed weapon.

A LITTLE GUN HISTORY
In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control.--From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated
In 1911, Turkey established gun control.--From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.
China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated
Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million educated people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control: 56 million.
You won't see this data on the US evening news, or hear politicians disseminating this information.
Guns in the hands of honest citizens save LIVES, property and, yes, gun-control laws adversely affect only the LAW-ABIDING CITIZENS.

The next time someone talks in favor of gun control, please remind them of these little history lessons.
With guns, we are 'citizens'. Without them, we are 'subjects'.

During WWII the Japanese decided not to invade America because they knew most Americans were ARMED!

SWITZERLAND ISSUES EVERY HOUSEHOLD A GUN!
SWITZERLAND'S GOVERNMENT TRAINS EVERY ADULT THEY ISSUE A RIFLE!
SWITZERLAND HAS THE LOWEST GUN RELATED CRIME RATE OF ANY CIVILIZED COUNTRY IN THE WORLD!!!
IT'S A NO BRAINER!
OUR GOVERNMENT IS WASTING MILLIONS OF OUR TAX DOLLARS IN AN EFFORT TO MAKE ALL LAW ABIDING CITIZENS AN EASY TARGET.

I'm really rather curious as to when our Federal Govt decided that our Nation's Constitution was more a list of Suggested Guidelines instead of the Document of Absolute Law that it was intended to be...

Our Founding Fathers and America: They worked for it...our "civilized" society took a giant dump on it.

History shows that governments always manipulate tragedies to attempt to disarm the people~
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A LITTLE GUN HISTORY
In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control.--From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated
In 1911, Turkey established gun control.--From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.
China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated
Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million educated people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control: 56 million.
You won't see this data on the US evening news, or hear politicians disseminating this information.
Guns in the hands of honest citizens save LIVES, property and, yes, gun-control laws adversely affect only the LAW-ABIDING CITIZENS.


tele says most of this murder is due to religious people.
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True. But most religious extremists are crazy. And crazy people are the ones that go around shooting the general public...

So regardless of the cause of their crazy...they're still crazy.--And I'd like the privilege of being able to put in a good effort at self-preservation against said crazy.

With gun control, who turns in their weapons? Law-abiding citizens.

...I may be wrong here...but most criminals aren't exactly known for their honest and forthcoming behavior.

So they'll keep their guns...and the rest of us are screwed.
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That's my girl (sniff)!!!
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Lol! :-) Great minds think alike ;-)
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True. But most religious extremists are crazy

Josh was being facetious. You'll soon meet telegraph, otherwise known as tele. He's a retired electrical engineer and a prolific poster. Tele has two topics that when he gets rolling, he's not to be reasoned with: peak oil and religion. Otherwise, he's fine to converse with.
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And crazy people are the ones that go around shooting the general public...

That's the whole point, yet the hysterical reactionary libs' focus is on guns. And if the numbers you quote are accurate it serves to illustrate what happens when law-abiding citizens have their guns taken away. First, the government can do what it wants leaving its citizens unprotected from tyranny (primary purposes of the 2nd amendment is to protect citizens from this happening); second, they can't defend themselves from criminals.
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History shows that governments always manipulate tragedies to attempt to disarm the people~
________________________

Well, your data did not include Switzerland trying to grab guns.

The problem is not government. Government is benign some good, some bad, it is required. Just to be pedantic, but in what I think is an important way (but then don't most pendants<grin>)

History shows that tyrannies always manipulate tragedies to attempt to disarm the people~
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"Josh was being facetious. You'll soon meet telegraph, otherwise known as tele. He's a retired electrical engineer and a prolific poster. Tele has two topics that when he gets rolling, he's not to be reasoned with: peak oil and religion. Otherwise, he's fine to converse with. "


Simple.

Peak oil production is real. We're not 'running out of oil'. We're running out of cheap oil. One of the reasons the economy is staggering is the high price of oil. (and all those trillions flowing to the Arabs and Venezuela0.....


Godthingies are made up. You can make them up in lots of flavors. Mix and match. Angels, cherubs, helper beings, demons, ghosts, things that go thump in the night, volcano gods, sea gods, you name it. Someone has made it up.



In case you haven't kept up, here's an update on super natural beings. If your six or eight can exist (well, who knows how many angels there are, and how many cherubs?).....and we got regular angels and arch-angels, right? It must be hard to kept track of all of them.


http://www.listal.com/list/creatures-of-supernatural



Keep 'real' from 'made up' and you've got it down fine.

t.
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In case you haven't kept up, here's an update on super natural beings. If your six or eight can exist (well, who knows how many angels there are, and how many cherubs?).....and we got regular angels and arch-angels, right? It must be hard to kept track of all of them.

I have no need to "keep up" because I don't care. Mankind has long sought answers to the questions: Who are we? Why are we here? Where are we going?

Unfortunately, the hard data to answer those questions is non-existent, so mankind does a variety of things, including creating elaborate systems to explain the unexplainable.

Mankind's long history on this planet has been one of struggle, To quote a famous economist, "nasty, brutish, and short." In order to give each other and themselves hope they create a world on the other side that makes the pain and suffering in the here and now more bearable.

I know that such people secretly wish they could be strong and tough like you are, but we all need our crutches.

Mentally ill flock to religion, just like they do to governemnt, but you always seem content to throw the baby out with the bath water. No credit is given to feeding the hungry, curing the sick, and all of those other things religious people do because they feel motivated and called upon by a Higher Power to try and make this world a little nicer place for everyone.

It is also very easy to point out atheists (Stalin, Pol Pot, etc...) that used their gift of life to destroy others, but somehow you give atheism a pass, but toss every theist into the same pot.

When you search for the splinter of hatred in the theist's eye you somehow overlook the forest of beams in your own.
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Great minds think alike.

Or, put another way, great minds slink alike. ;-)
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Tele has two topics that when he gets rolling, he's not to be reasoned with: peak oil and religion.

And some of his descriptions of "godthingies" are downright clever.
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Unfortunately, the hard data to answer those questions is non-existent, so mankind does a variety of things, including creating elaborate systems to explain the unexplainable.

I don't think Christianity is elaborate. Indeed, its simplicity is stunning.

God is supreme.

He created us.

We rebelled.

God, being God, created a plan to bridge the gap between the Creator and the Rebel. That bridge is Jesus Christ.

If you accept this, you're "redeemed."

End of story.
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Whoa! She's going to be an asset. Welcome aboard.

arrete
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Mankind has long sought answers to the questions: Who are we? Why are we here? Where are we going?

Unfortunately, the hard data to answer those questions is non-existent, so mankind does a variety of things, including creating elaborate systems to explain the unexplainable.
-------------

Iris Dement pretty much sums up what I think.

"My mom, who sang straight up until the day she died, told me one day: 'You know, Iris, singing is praying and praying is singing. There ain't no difference.' So I think, even though I've left the church and moved away from a lot of the things that didn't do me any good, I continued to pray — and that is singing for me. That's as close as I get to praying."

And the song that sums it up:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlaoR5m4L80

arrete - I thought Art would enjoy that.
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"Iris Dement pretty much sums up what I think. "My mom, who sang straight up until the day she died, told me one day: 'You know, Iris, singing is praying and praying is singing. There ain't no difference.' So I think, even though I've left the church and moved away from a lot of the things that didn't do me any good, I continued to pray — and that is singing for me. That's as close as I get to praying." And the song that sums it up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlaoR5m4L80 arrete - I thought Art would enjoy that."
-------------------------

We'll know for sure when we get there. I'm listening to Let the Mystery Be while I'm writing this. Thanks,

Art
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While many of the statements in your post have varying degrees of accuracy, I wanted to concentrate on the comments about Switzerland, as they are re-posted regularly.

SWITZERLAND ISSUES EVERY HOUSEHOLD A GUN!

Switzerland has 45.7 guns per 100 residents vs the US's 88.8 guns per 100 residents.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_guns_per_capita_by_co...


SWITZERLAND'S GOVERNMENT TRAINS EVERY ADULT THEY ISSUE A RIFLE!

Switzerland does not have a standing army, instead opting for a people's militia for its national defense. The vast majority of men between the ages of 20 and 30 are conscripted into the militia and undergo military training, including weapons training. The personal weapons of the militia are kept at home as part of the military obligations;

Is this the political position conservatives are promoting - conscripted military service?

To purchase a firearm in a commercial shop, one needs to have a Waffenerwerbsschein (weapon acquisition permit). A permit allows the purchase of three firearms. Everyone over the age of 18 who is not psychiatrically disqualified (such as having had a history of endangering his own life or the lives of others) or identified as posing security problems, and who has a clean criminal record (requires a Criminal Records Bureau check) can request such a permit.

Do conservatives agree to these ownership limitations?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland


SWITZERLAND HAS THE LOWEST GUN RELATED CRIME RATE OF ANY CIVILIZED COUNTRY IN THE WORLD!!!

Of this incomplete list of 75 countries, 56 (or 75%) of these countries have lower firearm related death rates, with 44 (or 59%) of these countries having lower gun related homocides.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-re...
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Well I guess I stand corrected. My comprehensive knowledge on the inner working of the Swiss has taken its hits over the years ;-) And from my understanding they're supposed to be "Neutral" anyway ;-)

But maybe benign is just a euphemism for malignant?

Because Govt,'s are far from benign. Benign Tumors just sit around taking up space and doing nothing. Malignant Tumors suck the life force right out of you.

And with our benign govt.'s newest installment in its War Against Our Civil Liberties, The Patriot Act---they're sucking the life force right out of us. You can be detained, arrested, and tortured on the mere SUSPICION of Terrorist Activity.<-----And you can't do anything about it.

Sounds pretty malignant to me....

As for God. Those who fail to believe in anything greater than themselves usually suffer the hardest falls and the harshest faces of reality.

If you believe that EVERYTHING---came from NOTHING...then GOD be with you.

In Science (which I'm gonna take a gander that you're a believer in, if not God) its most avid supporters scream "It's Empirical! You can prove this! It's fact! This is how it is! And I can PROVE it!"

You've got your atoms, your electrons, your quarks, and they all spin around in these little spheres making up matter everywhere you look. <-----Well that's great. But what about when you get past the Quark. Oh, yeah. That's right. You can't tell me. You can't prove it. I just have to take your word for it that the Quarks are there and they're doing their Biological Duty. <------So in other words what you're telling me is to have FAITH. To BELIEVE that that's how everything works.

Religion: BELIEVE that there is a God, and that he created Man and so forth. <-----FAITH.

To me, Science and Religion go hand-in-hand.

Ex. In the Book of Genesis, after seducing Eve to eat from the Forbidden Fruit, God deprived the Snake (Satan) of his feet, and cursed to him to slither around the Earth on his belly for all of time.

In Science, when you cut open a snake, there are remnants of little feet inside its body.

...I'm just sayin'.
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You can be detained, arrested, and tortured on the mere SUSPICION of Terrorist Activity.<-----And you can't do anything about it.

The Minority Report has arrived!

In April 2054, Captain John Anderton (Tom Cruise) is chief of the highly controversial Washington, D.C., PreCrime police force. They use future visions generated by three "precogs", mutated humans with precognitive abilities, to stop murders. Because of this, the city has been murder-free for six years. Though Anderton is a respected member of the force, he is addicted to Clarity, an illegal psychoactive drug he began using after the disappearance of his son Sean. With the PreCrime force poised to go nationwide, the system is audited by Danny Witwer (Colin Farrell), a member of the United States Justice Department. During the audit, the precogs predict that Anderton will murder a man named Leo Crow in 36 hours. Believing the incident to be a setup by Witwer, who is aware of Anderton's addiction, Anderton attempts to hide the case and quickly departs the area before Witwer begins a manhunt for him. Anderton seeks the advice of Dr. Iris Hineman (Lois Smith), the lead researcher of the PreCrime technology. She explains to Anderton that sometimes the three precogs see different visions of the future, in which case the system only provides data on the two reports which agree; the "minority report", reflecting the potential future where a predicted killer would have done something different, is discarded. According to Dr. Hineman, the female precog Agatha is most likely to be the precog that witnesses the minority report.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2bmImPNKbM
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LOL! @ JoshRandall I only wish I were that adorable. But on the plus side I AM potty-trained so at least I have a leg up in that category ;-)

@ CC: That is AWESOME :-)
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You've got your atoms, your electrons, your quarks, and they all spin around in these little spheres making up matter everywhere you look. <-----Well that's great. But what about when you get past the Quark. Oh, yeah. That's right. You can't tell me. You can't prove it. I just have to take your word for it that the Quarks are there and they're doing their Biological Duty. <------So in other words what you're telling me is to have FAITH. To BELIEVE that that's how everything works.



Well, you have just proven you don't have any idea what science is. You also have shown that you are as behind on your science information as you are on you Swiss information.

Have you heard of the Higg's Boson? Have you heard of super colliders and the way they actually TEST the existance of these particals? Have you bothered to learn the scientific process which enforces a policy of multiple proofs and peer review before ideas are accepted? And, should anything come along and disprove the current understanding, guess what...the scientific community adapts.

Example from recently:
That leaves two possibilities: either black holes in bright cluster galaxies behave differently by producing more light than we think they should, or the biggest black holes in the Universe might be astoundingly ultramassive.

http://arstechnica.com/science/2012/12/biggest-black-holes-m...

This now means you have been wrong twice in this thread. I have also read that the idea of countries taking away weapons and then killing off people has been rewritten a bit to make it more of a clarion to the right. Which is no surprise, but I do not have a link to that.

....ps...I am a gun owner.
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Pun-licious!
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Because Govt,'s are far from benign. Benign Tumors just sit around taking up space and doing nothing. Malignant Tumors suck the life force right out of you.

Benign tumors can suck the life out of you and kill you just as quickly as a malignant tumor. The main different between benign and malignant is that benign usually doesn't spread/metastasize and is cured by cutting out. Malignant can easily spread and may require chemo/radiation therapy.

Some medical things I just can't let go.

JLC
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In Science, when you cut open a snake, there are remnants of little feet inside its body. - DD87


---------------

George: Then of course with evolution the octopus lost the nostrils and took on the more familiar look that we know today. But if you look really closely you can still see a bump where the nose use to be.

Diane: Really?

George: Yeah, but enough about fish I can talk about other things like...

architecture...
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@ jlduffy: WOW. ...You must be the LIFE of the party...
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