UnThreaded | Threaded | Whole Thread (379) | Ignore Thread Prev Thread | Next Thread
Author: mom4boys4 One star, 50 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 308230  
Subject: HERE IT IS - MY MAJOR CC DEBT !!! Date: 2/21/2007 3:43 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 12
Ok everyone HERE IT IS - MY DEBT - MY UGLY UGLY DEBT !!!!!!

Any questions or advice PLEASE post - I'm up for any cost savings you can think of.


TOTAL GROSS yearly income: $93,399.00 (2006) Not necessarily the same
for 2007

TOTAL CC DEBT: $71,003.97 (more than I thought)

MONTHLY EXPENSES:
Mtg. payment $1,553.35
Taxes 598.62 ($7,183.54/year)
Medical 167.26 (deducted from paycheck)
Dental 10.42 (deducted from paycheck)
401K loan 8.84% 414.56 (deducted from paycheck)$20,000/loan
4,873.10 fin chg.
120 payments
401K Retirement 85.00 (approx.)
Unsecured line of cr. 103.00 (checking acct.)
Unsecured line of cr. 70.00 (2nd checking acct.)
HS Tuition 1,260.00
Homeowners 112.75 ($1,353.00/year)
Car Insurance 203.20 ($2,094.00/year)
Car payment 238.53 (Leased -year left on monthly payment
then $20,000 due)
Life Insurance 95.00 (Whole life insurance policy. Borrowed
$10,000 against it to pay bills. $582.00
interest payment is due March 07)
Cable 133.00 (includes cable, home phone, computer)
Sprint 180.00
Electric 250.00
Orthodontist 135.00
Fuel - Oil 150.00
Sprinklers 14.48 ($173.80/year)
Water Bill 11.00

Religion Classes 28.33 ($340.00 year)
Art classes for son 337.50 ($4,050/year)

CREDIT CARDS:
Mine:
Capital One Balance: $9,258.00
Min Due 187.00
Fin Chg 102.45
Limit 14,300.00
12.0%

Chase Balance: $1,811.83
Min Due 66.00
Fin Chg 48.17
Limit 2,406.00
29.99%

Citibank Balance: $2,921.28
Min Due 43.00
Fin Chg 10.22
Limit 16,300.00
3.99%

MBNA Balance: $8,718.23
Min Due 253.00
Fin Chg 204.62
16.99% (They just lowered this rate)

GMC Balance: $4,850.00 (just transferrerd this amt from MBNA)
0%
Haven't received a bill yet

Ann Taylor Balance: 519.85
Min Due 26.00
Fin Chg 13.69
22.80%

Kohls Balance: 215.16
Min Due 10.00
Fin Chg 0.00
21.90%


HUSBAND'S

MBNA Balance: 7,640.65
Min Due 224.00
Fin Chg 149.77
Limit 11,500.00
24.99%

Chase Balance: 9,846.86
Min Due 244.00
Fin Chg 145.61
Limit 12,000.00
17.24%

Capital One Balance: 10,885.48
Min Due 250.00
Fin Chg 177.04
Limit 21,500.00
19.80%

Bank of Am Balance: 6,011.39
Min Due 120.00
Fin Chg 60.54
Limit 8,000.00
12.23%

Discover Balance: 8,325.01
Min Due 183.00
Fin Chg 167.29
Limit 17,000.00
14.99% (new rate just had it lowered)

OK just to point out this does NOT include any groceries/gas/haircuts/b'day gift, parties/X-mas/Medical copays/entertainment/sports and activities fees/car repairs/household items and decor/clothing/shoes/personal items/etc.

BCB





Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Print the post Back To Top
Author: mastiffmama Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 247931 of 308230
Subject: Re: HERE IT IS - MY MAJOR CC DEBT !!! Date: 2/21/2007 4:14 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
OK just to point out this does NOT include any groceries/gas/haircuts/b'day gift, parties/X-mas/Medical copays/entertainment/sports and activities fees/car repairs/household items and decor/clothing/shoes/personal items/etc.

I'm proud of you for putting that out for the world to see. Expect some comments (art classes at $437/mo?). But until we know your outgo on everything, it's hard to know where to cut. Things like groceries, gifts, entertainment can all be trimmed or slashed depending on your priorities and just how far you are in the hole each month.

I do have to say that it doesn't look entirely your fault, because your DH has some pretty high balances too.

Withholding other comments for a while until more data is posted,
mm

Print the post Back To Top
Author: electrasmom Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 247932 of 308230
Subject: Re: HERE IT IS - MY MAJOR CC DEBT !!! Date: 2/21/2007 4:14 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
I'm going for the easy stuff!!

<Cable 133.00 (includes cable, home phone, computer)
Sprint 180.00 >

Do you need both a landline and cell phones?

How many cell phones?

Do you have long distance on your landline? Get rid of it and use calling cards.

Is cable more than basic? Can you get reception without cable?

May not be a huge savings but it will be something so you can start paying for groceries without charging them.

electrasmom

Print the post Back To Top
Author: Windowseat Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 247933 of 308230
Subject: Re: HERE IT IS - MY MAJOR CC DEBT !!! Date: 2/21/2007 4:17 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
Do you pay income taxes? I see the property taxes, but no income taxes.

More later.

Nancy

Print the post Back To Top
Author: Gingko100 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 247934 of 308230
Subject: Re: HERE IT IS - MY MAJOR CC DEBT !!! Date: 2/21/2007 4:18 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
Just one comment - car payment...monthly this year and then $20K due? Is it some kind of balloon payment? Can you sell it before that amount comes due? If you live in NYC (even with 4 kids) you may not need a car. I lived there for four years without a car and did just fine on buses and subways.

Oh, and I'd love to see breakdown of food & other spending if you have it...

Print the post Back To Top
Author: Gingko100 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 247936 of 308230
Subject: Re: HERE IT IS - MY MAJOR CC DEBT !!! Date: 2/21/2007 4:32 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
Oh...I see it is a leased car not an owned one. But I still don't understand the structure of the financial commitment. Can you just "turn it back in."?

Print the post Back To Top
Author: NWAScaper Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 247937 of 308230
Subject: Re: HERE IT IS - MY MAJOR CC DEBT !!! Date: 2/21/2007 4:36 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 9
Okay, here's my 2 cents worth.


MONTHLY EXPENSES:

401K Retirement 85.00 (approx.)
--are you contributing this amount to get the employer match? I would not be putting any extra into a 401k, other than what is required here.

HS Tuition 1,260.00
--as has been said before, look into scholarship options, and have the boys help pay their way if they want to stay in this school


Car Insurance 203.20 ($2,094.00/year)
Car payment 238.53 (Leased -year left on monthly payment
then $20,000 due)
--sell the car. Buy something used, or go without.

Life Insurance 95.00 (Whole life insurance policy. Borrowed
$10,000 against it to pay bills. $582.00
interest payment is due March 07)
--Why do you have whole life instead of term life? Perhaps you should look into a term life policy instead.

Cable 133.00 (includes cable, home phone, computer)
--cable is a want, and the internet is free from the library. Also, the pricey private school should have internet there as well.

Sprint 180.00
--Is this much phone service required for your job?

Electric 250.00
--Have this shut off. Your food will stay cold if you put it in a snowdrift outside. Bundle up and start a family bed for warmth.
Oh, sorry, thought I was on the LBYM board there for a minute. Strike that last suggestion.

Orthodontist 135.00
--Can you defer this or renegotiate?

Fuel - Oil 150.00

Sprinklers 14.48 ($173.80/year)
--Are these fire sprinklers, or yard sprinklers? If they are for your yard, ditch them.

Water Bill 11.00
--Your water bill is only $11 a month!?! Wow. Mine runs $50, and doesn't include trash or sewer!

Religion Classes 28.33 ($340.00 year)
--Pardon my ignorance, buy what kind of religion makes you pay to learn about it?
Art classes for son 337.50 ($4,050/year)
--Isn't that Bob guy, or whatever his name is, still doing watercolors on PBS for free? but seriously, if you're shelling out that kind of dough for art, your son really needs to have passion and skill for it. If that's the case, he needs to be out selling his skill to pay for the class.



Well, there ya go! You know, it really is easy telling other people how to spend their money, the hard part is stomaching the advice!


Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Print the post Back To Top
Author: nebroots One star, 50 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 247938 of 308230
Subject: Re: HERE IT IS - MY MAJOR CC DEBT !!! Date: 2/21/2007 4:38 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
M4B4,

I am pretty new to the boards as well, and just wanted to congratulate you for putting everything together. It sucks to do it, but for me, looking at the big picture got rid of a bunch of my magical thinking about how I was going to pay for things. Seeing how down to the wire we are going each month has really motivated me to keep the cards in my pocket and rummage around in the back of the pantry that we've already paid for when I'm ready to make dinner.

Just one suggestion. Can you give a monthly take home amount? That will help to see whether your budget can even balance for the month at hand.

Good luck!!

Print the post Back To Top
Author: DEGbookworm Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 247940 of 308230
Subject: Re: HERE IT IS - MY MAJOR CC DEBT !!! Date: 2/21/2007 4:53 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 17
#1- You should feel very proud of yourself for being brave enough to put all of this information out there.

#2- When I added up your numbers, you had $26 more coming in than going out, and that didn't include the expenses you didn't list. Clearly that's just not going to feed a family of 6.

#3- You will need to figure out just how much it does cost to feed a family of 6 to know how much you NEED to cut. From there you can see how much more you can cut to speed up the payments.

From an outside perspective, it seems that art classes and religion classes would be the easiest to cut. Also, on your other thread someone mentioned selling things. I would really look into that, and then put all of the money towards one debt. If you can eliminate any of the monthly minimums that will help your cash flow.

Lastly, I would really encourage you to talk to your older boys. I know I would have been devastated to know that my parents were getting themselves into financial problems to pay for my tuition. If you tell them they have to leave school, they'll likely be angry and resent you. If you ask them for ideas and cooperation they just might surprise you.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: Gingko100 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 247941 of 308230
Subject: Re: HERE IT IS - MY MAJOR CC DEBT !!! Date: 2/21/2007 5:08 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
One more thought: To the best of your ability estimate CURRENT income for 2007. You show the 2006 actuals, but that doesn't really help if your income has changed, as you note it has.

Show current income/outgo to be honest with yourself...

Print the post Back To Top
Author: kevinnow One star, 50 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 247943 of 308230
Subject: Re: HERE IT IS - MY MAJOR CC DEBT !!! Date: 2/21/2007 5:27 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 3
A more complete balance sheet would also help provide a fuller picture of your current situation.

That said, it looks to me like you are spending as if you have a family income of $200K when you are bringing in $100K (or somewhat less).

Private school, expensive car, art lessons, ski trips, etc. have burdened you and will be your downfall unless significant changes are made.

The big picture is your family's emotional and financial health and they are very much linked. You need to act as a team so that the long-term is addressed - retirement and adequate life insurance, while the short-term is tackled. Everyone needs to wake up and be motivated to move out of their comfort zone.

Bring in whatever money you can. Jobs for the kids. In-home daycare might be an option for you. Or, work at the private school in exchange for the rest of the year's tuition. Sell what you don't need on eBay. This can be a family affair (and should be).

Buy the right term life insurance and exit your cash balance plan (probably, and after a review of its details).

Things will get better once everyone is working on it together. Remember that. You have to decide whether you want to get out of this hole in two years, or in five, or in ten. A two-year program will be painful but will yield the best long-term results. You might not have 10 years to fix this because no one lets you borrow to pay for retirement.

Remember, too that you have a lot of cyberfriends who are rooting for you.

Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Print the post Back To Top
Author: clyde59 One star, 50 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 247944 of 308230
Subject: Re: HERE IT IS - MY MAJOR CC DEBT !!! Date: 2/21/2007 5:37 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
Congrats on putting it out there. The hard part is over.

<Unsecured line of cr. 103.00 (checking acct.)
Unsecured line of cr. 70.00 (2nd checking acct.)>

What are these? I'm unfamiliar with this. Is this for overdraft protection or money to be paid back because of overdrafts?

<Car Insurance 203.20 ($2,094.00/year)>

How many cars is this for? Ask your agent how to trim this or shop another company.

<Citibank Balance: $2,921.28
Min Due 43.00
Fin Chg 10.22
Limit 16,300.00
3.99%>

Call Citibank and see if you're can BT some of the highter APR debt (like Chase) to this rate.

Clyde

Print the post Back To Top
Author: mom4boys4 One star, 50 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 247946 of 308230
Subject: Re: HERE IT IS - MY MAJOR CC DEBT !!! Date: 2/21/2007 5:56 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
Yes the car is leased. My husband pays 238 or whatever I said monthly next year he has to pay $20,000 to own the car or turn in the car at the end of the lease period and pay how ever many miles he is over.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: mom4boys4 One star, 50 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 247947 of 308230
Subject: Re: HERE IT IS - MY MAJOR CC DEBT !!! Date: 2/21/2007 5:58 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
I guess not I never even thought of not having a home phone. Everyone in my entire life knows that number. We have 5 cell phones. Yes we have long distance but are not charged for it. I can call anywhere and talk as long as I want no extra charge. Flat fee. And my family lives in Pennsylvania not New York. No cable is just basic we need cable to have tv otherwise no reception.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: electrasmom Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 247948 of 308230
Subject: Re: HERE IT IS - MY MAJOR CC DEBT !!! Date: 2/21/2007 5:59 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
<pay $20,000 to own the car or turn in the car at the end of the lease period and pay how ever many miles he is over. >

Will he be over or is there any way he can stay under the mileage?

What is his plans? Is he planning on buying the car? Getting another lease? Buying a used car? Going without?

I think this is something to at least think about ahead of time.

electrasmom


Print the post Back To Top
Author: mom4boys4 One star, 50 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 247949 of 308230
Subject: Re: HERE IT IS - MY MAJOR CC DEBT !!! Date: 2/21/2007 6:00 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
Do you pay income taxes? I see the property taxes, but no income taxes.

Last year we paid approx. $1,000.00 got nothing back. Claim married 6.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: mom4boys4 One star, 50 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 247950 of 308230
Subject: Re: HERE IT IS - MY MAJOR CC DEBT !!! Date: 2/21/2007 6:03 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
Just one comment - car payment...monthly this year and then $20K due? Is it some kind of balloon payment? Can you sell it before that amount comes due? If you live in NYC (even with 4 kids) you may not need a car. I lived there for four years without a car and did just fine on buses and subways.

I need a car we have two of them mine is paid for. We live on Long Island not the city. I just posted info regarding the lease. Forgive me for the way I post. I am just getting the hang of how to do everything. I'm still trying to figure out what all the abbreviations mean.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: mom4boys4 One star, 50 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 247951 of 308230
Subject: Re: HERE IT IS - MY MAJOR CC DEBT !!! Date: 2/21/2007 6:06 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
Will he be over or is there any way he can stay under the mileage?

What is his plans? Is he planning on buying the car? Getting another lease? Buying a used car? Going without?

I think this is something to at least think about ahead of time.


Yes he is way over the mileage. At least 60,000 miles over. He drives to the city everyday for work. Due to lack of funds I don't know what he plans on yet. I don't see us having $20,000 next year to just plunk down on a car. Maybe he will get another lease just to keep monthly payments low. But no he can't go without. We live in the car. We have four kids remember.




Print the post Back To Top
Author: Amy4Tybee Two stars, 250 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 247952 of 308230
Subject: Re: HERE IT IS - MY MAJOR CC DEBT !!! Date: 2/21/2007 6:17 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 6
If he's 60K miles over on your "fleeced" car you're going to be in for a mighty big payment.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: mom4boys4 One star, 50 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 247954 of 308230
Subject: Re: HERE IT IS - MY MAJOR CC DEBT !!! Date: 2/21/2007 6:41 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
If he's 60K miles over on your "fleeced" car you're going to be in for a mighty big payment.


What do you mean "fleeced" ??? I don't know what they charge for overage. But they only allowed 30,000 miles per year and he has about 60,00 per year on it.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: Amy4Tybee Two stars, 250 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 247955 of 308230
Subject: Re: HERE IT IS - MY MAJOR CC DEBT !!! Date: 2/21/2007 6:51 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 2
Sorry, that was a Dave Ramsey-ism - he calls "leased" cars "fleeced" cars because they're generally such a terrible deal.

Check what they charge for overage - generally you are charged a hefty fee for each mile you are over the allotted amount.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: aj485 Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 247956 of 308230
Subject: Re: HERE IT IS - MY MAJOR CC DEBT !!! Date: 2/21/2007 6:51 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 57
Okay, this is going to feel harsh, but I think you need a wake up call, especially about the private school, art classes, etc.

Well, I can see why you feel like you're drowing, because you are....

Here are your numbers, re-formatted a bit:

GROSS MONTHLY INCOME $7783.33
WITHHOLDINGS
Payroll/Income Tax withholding $1500.00??
Medical $167.26
Dental $10.42
401K loan $414.56
401K Retirement $85.00
NET MONTHLY INCOME $5606.09
MONTHLY EXPENSES:
Mtg. payment $1,553.35
Taxes (Property?) $598.62
HS Tuition $1,260.00
Homeowners Insurance $112.75
Car Insurance $203.20
Car payment $238.53
Life Insurance $95.00
Cable/phone/computer $133.00
Sprint $180.00
Electric $250.00
Orthodontist $135.00
Fuel Oil $150.00
Sprinklers $14.48
Water Bill $11.00
Religion Classes $28.33
Art classes for son $337.50
Food ????
Household Items ????
Personal Care ????
Medical ????
Entertainment ????
Gas/Park/Tolls/Maint ????
Transportation (subway, bus, etc.) ????
Dining Out ????
Sports Activities ????
Gifts ????
Spending money ????
CC/LOC minimums $1646.00
Net Surplus/(Shortage)	         ($1340.97)
One Time Expense
Life Insurance Interest $ 582.00
CREDIT CARDS/LOCs
Balance Minimum Limit Rate
Checking Acct 1 Overdraft $103.00
Checking Acct 2 Overdraft $ 70.00
DW Capital One $ 9,258.00 $187.00 $14,300 12.00%
DW Chase $ 1,811.83 $ 66.00 $ 2,406 29.99%
DW Citibank $ 2,921.28 $ 43.00 $16,300 3.99%
DW MBNA $ 8,718.23 $253.00 16.99%
DW GMC $ 4,850.00 $ 50.00? 0.00%
DW Ann Taylor $ 519.85 $ 26.00 22.80%
DW Kohls $ 215.16 $ 10.00 21.90%
DH MBNA $ 7,640.65 $224.00 $11,500 24.99%
DH Chase $ 9,846.86 $244.00 $12,000 17.24%
DH Capital One $10,885.48 $250.00 $21,500 19.80%
DH Bank of Am $ 6,011.39 $120.00 $ 8,000 12.23%

So before paying for all the things that I left as question marks, you are already $1340 short a month, before accounting for DH's pay cut.

You and DH need to come up with a minimum of probably $3000 - $4000 a month in expense cuts and/or income increases, depending on how big DH's pay cut was. Obviously, $1260 in tuition and $337.50 in art classes are two big hitters, but even with those, there is still another $1500 - $2500 to go. Since your credit card minimums are $1646, one option would be to declare bankruptcy, but even that may not be enough with DH's pay cut. Sure there are a few other things to cut, like the phone/cable and cell bills. But really, unless you can immediately increase your income to cover DH's pay cut, plus those small necessities like food, as well as cutting ALL non-necessities, including private school/lessons, I don't know that you will eventually be able to save anything including your home, even with bankruptcy. You are so far in that you need scuba gear.

I would tell you to stop using the cards to pay for food, etc. but I don't think you can.

My first piece of advice is that you need to increase your income by a substantial amount. After that, you can worry about the expense cuts.

AJ

Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Print the post Back To Top
Author: JAFO31 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 247957 of 308230
Subject: Re: HERE IT IS - MY MAJOR CC DEBT !!! Date: 2/21/2007 7:12 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 8
mom4boys4: "Yes he is way over the mileage. At least 60,000 miles over. He drives to the city everyday for work. Due to lack of funds I don't know what he plans on yet. I don't see us having $20,000 next year to just plunk down on a car. Maybe he will get another lease just to keep monthly payments low. But no he can't go without. We live in the car. We have four kids remember."

<<<If he's 60K miles over on your "fleeced" car you're going to be in for a mighty big payment.>>>

"What do you mean "fleeced" ??? I don't know what they charge for overage. But they only allowed 30,000 miles per year and he has about 60,00 per year on it."

-----------------

"Your lease agreement will have a cost per mile over your limit that you must pay. This usually ranges from .10 to .21 cents a mile."

-- from a car site --

Check your lease.

60,000 over qould be a $6,000 at $0.10/mile to $12,600 at .21/mile. You and he need to start right now figuring your plan for when the lease expires!!!

And 30,000 miles per year is a huge allowance for leased cars.

Leased cars rarely make financial sense for most consumers. And you are already discussing another lease "to keep monthly payments low". If all you focus on is "keeping monthly payments low," it will be all the more difficult to get out of debt.

Instead of commuting by car, could your DH ride the LIRR?

In addition, 60,000 miles per year on one family car is a lot of miles; we live in Houston (with little public transportation) and probably do not put 30k miles per year on both cars, combined. How many miles per year are you adding to your car?

I feel like another piece of the puzzle is missing.

And based on aj's recent post, you feel in over your head because you are in over your head.

Good luck, JAFO





Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Print the post Back To Top
Author: Windowseat Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 247962 of 308230
Subject: Re: HERE IT IS - MY MAJOR CC DEBT !!! Date: 2/21/2007 7:44 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 35
AJ, thank you for doing the formatting and adding. I was working on it, but kept having little dizzy spells.

Mom4, you are not going to like this post, and I apologize in advance.

First, you need to go out and get a job. A regular paying job that will help bring in money to pay the bills. And the private school needs to go. I understand how you feel, and if you can keep things going until June to ease the transition, I won't blame you, but this is a luxury your family cannot afford. A SAHM is another luxury you can't afford.

I don't know how much you're leaking per day, but it's a lot. I realize that you're not in one of the pricier Long Island suburbs, and that compared to other houses you are probably not living in a mansion. But I suspect that there are people you know who regularly have all the bells and whistles that you want and have been having, and you haven't allowed for the fact that most of them probably have a much higher income.

I suggest that you and your husband sit down and look at the numbers. You can state the ground rules ahead of time: no blaming each other. Both of you are responsible for this, because your monthly expenses are running much higher than they should, and both of you should have been paying attention. Both of you need to work together to find a way out of this mess.

And after the two of you have worked out a rational budget, you need to sit down with the two oldest kids and explain things to them. They are going to lose a lot, and they'll need to adjust.

I don't know how deep that paycut was, but, using the figures you gave, you would not qualify for a Chapter 7 bankruptcy. This means a Chapter 13, under which you pay back your debts, and you certainly would not be allowed to spend money on private schools while your debtors are waiting for their money.

If your husband is tackling the LIE every day (thus driving the mileage up) then he is probably paying a bridge or tunnel toll, and could be paying for parking as well. Have you looked at the numbers? Would it be cheaper if he parked somewhere close to the city and took the LIRR or the subway? You will need to actually look at the numbers, not just pass them off. Does he eat lunch out or brown bag it?

I know that none of this sounds like fun. But, even in the office where I work, I often see principals (as in, owners of the company and sharing in the profits, not as in school administrators) bringing leftovers in for lunch. They could easily afford to eat out, but they like saving money when they can.

You need to spend some real time thinking about how can you cut corners and start paying off those bills. And I realize that your DH (Dear Husband) is still feeling the emotional trauma of a paycut. But if you are going to save your family, you need to work at this.

Nancy
who no longer lives on Long Island.

Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Print the post Back To Top
Author: MrsPoppy Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 247963 of 308230
Subject: Re: HERE IT IS - MY MAJOR CC DEBT !!! Date: 2/21/2007 7:45 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 4
Yes the car is leased. My husband pays 238 or whatever I said monthly next year he has to pay $20,000 to own the car or turn in the car at the end of the lease period and pay how ever many miles he is over.

This one's simple. Your husband needs to turn in the car - you can't afford it. If a car is absolutely necessary, you can find a reliable used one for significantly less than $20K.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: MrsPoppy Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 247964 of 308230
Subject: Re: HERE IT IS - MY MAJOR CC DEBT !!! Date: 2/21/2007 7:49 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
He drives to the city everyday for work.

Are there ferry or LIRR options you can consider?

Maybe he will get another lease just to keep monthly payments low. But no he can't go without. We live in the car. We have four kids remember.

I don't recommend another lease. Buy a used, reliable car. There are many 2-3 year old cars that would cost less than $20k and otherwise you'll find yourself over mileage and having to turn in another car at the end of the lease period again.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: MrsPoppy Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 247965 of 308230
Subject: Re: HERE IT IS - MY MAJOR CC DEBT !!! Date: 2/21/2007 7:50 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
What do you mean "fleeced" ???

Leases are typically known as a bad financial deal for the consumer.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: ekolaw One star, 50 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 247966 of 308230
Subject: Re: HERE IT IS - MY MAJOR CC DEBT !!! Date: 2/21/2007 7:55 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 9
A couple of comments:

You mentioned in your other thread that your DH blames you for the current financial situation. I'm not sure why, so I hope you know why because you will need to tackle that issue if any lasting financial changes are going to take hold. You alluded to buying a lot of things you don't need and perhaps this is part of the reason?

At any rate, from your financial picture, you need to increase your income and decrease your outgo, and I submit that means sell some stuff. I'm not sure if that means the house, the car, the kids (just kidding) or random stuff around the house or all of it.

I also submit that if you take the first step by selling off some of those things you purchased but didn't really need, it will send a HUGE signal to your DH that you are serious and willing to sacrifice YOUR luxuries, not just his or the kids'. That may help him emotionally let go of some of the anger and bitterness he has toward you and the stuff. Plus, listing stuff for sale online is something you can do in a few minutes any time of the day or night.

I know that when DH & I started our paydown last year, I went through my book collection and sold a bunch on Amazon right away (I had never sold anything online before), DH was suprised both by the seriousness of my action and the money I was able to bring in. He then got into it, and sold a few of his things (large and small) on Craigslist. Then we had a garage sale. Within a month, we had enough to put us back in the black and have $1000 in our emergency fund.

Even though you are in a very dire situation, and you need to take some very drastic measures to get through this (look at SoccerDad's posts for lots of discussion about that), selling a few things online or organizing a garage sale for Saturday is something you can do TODAY that will make a difference not only in your pocketbook (think grocery money here) but probably also in your relationship with DH.

--eko

Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Print the post Back To Top
Author: OtherVoices Three stars, 500 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 247967 of 308230
Subject: Re: HERE IT IS - MY MAJOR CC DEBT !!! Date: 2/21/2007 8:12 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 2
You mention that your DH is 60,000 miles over the mileage on the lease, and that they allowed 30,000 per year. This means over 2 years he's put 120,000 miles on the car. Are you sure that's how many extra miles he has on that car? If he drives 60,000 miles each year that means he's driving about 165 miles every day, including weekends. I think Long Island is only about 120 miles long. You must live pretty far out for him to have to be putting that kind of mileage on the car. That's a really long commute into NYC.

I'm actually surprised that your car lease payment is as low as it is. My understanding is that lease payments are higher when they allow you more mileage. Most of the time I see advertisements for leases at 12k-15k miles per year. The fact that you have 30k miles a year makes me wonder how your lease payment is as low as it is. Are you absolutely sure that this is a "per year" amount and not a "per lease" amount and that it's not really 10k per year?

Print the post Back To Top
Author: alaskack Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 247968 of 308230
Subject: Re: HERE IT IS - MY MAJOR CC DEBT !!! Date: 2/21/2007 8:33 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
It might be time to reconsider a home equity loan and explore selling the house. What is the amount of the mortgage and what do you think the house is worth? Just looking to see how much breathing space it will give you.



Print the post Back To Top
Author: Windowseat Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 247969 of 308230
Subject: Re: HERE IT IS - MY MAJOR CC DEBT !!! Date: 2/21/2007 8:39 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
It might be time to reconsider a home equity loan and explore selling the house. What is the amount of the mortgage and what do you think the house is worth? Just looking to see how much breathing space it will give you.

The problem is, they refinanced about four years ago and stripped the equity to pay off previous debt.

Nancy


Print the post Back To Top
Author: mom4boys4 One star, 50 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 247970 of 308230
Subject: Re: HERE IT IS - MY MAJOR CC DEBT !!! Date: 2/21/2007 8:40 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 6
It might be time to reconsider a home equity loan and explore selling the house. What is the amount of the mortgage and what do you think the house is worth? Just looking to see how much breathing space it will give you.

The amount of the mortgage is currently $214,000. My house is probably worth about $550,000. But the market is shifting so maybe a little less.

I have actually thought of selling this house moving into a less expensive house meaning aroung 475,000 (if you can find one at that price that isn't an absolute dump very hard to do here on long island) but if you could maybe that is a way to gain some cash to THROW at those Credit Cards.

I have read every post and I am going to try and answer all questions. I have to reiterate how much posting just in the last couple of days has made a DRASTIC difference in the way I look at this problem.

Tough love is the way to go here. I can't thank you enough. I am going to digest everything I have read and will post again.

M4B4


Print the post Back To Top
Author: mom4boys4 One star, 50 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 247971 of 308230
Subject: Re: HERE IT IS - MY MAJOR CC DEBT !!! Date: 2/21/2007 8:49 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
I don't know that you will eventually be able to save anything including your home, even with bankruptcy. You are so far in that you need scuba gear.

I would tell you to stop using the cards to pay for food, etc. but I don't think you can.

OK AJ your scarying me !!!!! Thanks for re-running my numbers. What do you think about selling my house. Mortgage is $214,000 can sell house for about $550,000. Moving into a smaller place (double up the boys) less expensive.

Take some of the larger amts of debt transfer as much as I can to the lower rate cards and go out and try to find a job (haven't worked in 15 years) I mean really worked. I babysit now for a little bit a week. But the problem with working outside the home is the kids. What if someone is sick what if the little one has a day off etc. I have no family here they are all out of state. Then there is the summer I can't leave four kids ages 16, 14, 10 and 6 all home alone all day everyday.

M4B4

Print the post Back To Top
Author: mom4boys4 One star, 50 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 247972 of 308230
Subject: Re: HERE IT IS - MY MAJOR CC DEBT !!! Date: 2/21/2007 9:06 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
No need to apologize - my fellow former Long Islander. I need to hear this I really do. It's why I decided to post here.

As far as a budget. How can you make a budget when you don't make enough money for the bills that are coming in. I mean since I have started to babysit I truly go nowhere no stores, no dinners out with girlfriends (miss that but thats ok they bring me in food - love them), no Ann Taylor not even on sale days NOTHING !!!!

He doesn't pay for parking and he brown bags lunch every day.

I did just add up what I spend on school lunches every month $250.00/month on school lunches so help me hannah I never realized that I never added it up. It's time I pay attention !!!!

I don't know how much you're leaking per day, but it's a lot. I realize that you're not in one of the pricier Long Island suburbs, and that compared to other houses you are probably not living in a mansion. But I suspect that there are people you know who regularly have all the bells and whistles that you want and have been having, and you haven't allowed for the fact that most of them probably have a much higher income.


Your absolutely right about this - see this is where posting is just cleansing I swear to you. I am positng things here that my closest friends don't even know. There is a lot of shame in debt. Yes obviously we have been living WAY beyond our means.

I do think selling things is a good idea. I think I am honestly going to walk through my house and list everything I am going to sell. I have no idea how to sell online I thought of ebay its a little overwhelming to me but I can get a friend to show me how. I really think I could make a good deal of money here I really do. Thats the first happy thought I have had all day.


By the way what is a SAHM ???

I'm off to think about all of this thanks again.

M4B4


Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Print the post Back To Top
Author: Windowseat Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 247973 of 308230
Subject: Re: HERE IT IS - MY MAJOR CC DEBT !!! Date: 2/21/2007 9:08 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 4
I babysit now for a little bit a week. But the problem with working outside the home is the kids. What if someone is sick what if the little one has a day off etc. I have no family here they are all out of state. Then there is the summer I can't leave four kids ages 16, 14, 10 and 6 all home alone all day everyday.

There are various companies that can arrange a kind of "Nanny on Call" set up for these exact problems. You can start looking into them. If you have neighbors or friends who both work, ask what arrangements they make. Look around your neighborhood, ask questions.

But remember something; there are plenty of people who have been resolving these exact same questions for years. Either both parents work, or there's a single parent, or there's a temporary problem. In a Long Island suburb I suspect that there are plenty of people who can offer ideas. They haven't had the option of having a parent stay home all the time. They have coped because they had to cope.

Ask your neighbors, ask your friends, ask the parents of your children's classmates.

Nancy

Print the post Back To Top
Author: mom4boys4 One star, 50 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 247974 of 308230
Subject: Re: HERE IT IS - MY MAJOR CC DEBT !!! Date: 2/21/2007 9:08 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0

This one's simple. Your husband needs to turn in the car - you can't afford it. If a car is absolutely necessary, you can find a reliable used one for significantly less than $20K.

I agree the car must go. So he would have to take out a loan in order to buy one though. Thats the only way. As you have probably noticed we have NO money.



Print the post Back To Top
Author: nebroots One star, 50 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 247975 of 308230
Subject: Re: HERE IT IS - MY MAJOR CC DEBT !!! Date: 2/21/2007 9:08 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 8
Let's think about the income side of the problem for a minute. You said (if I remember right) that you're babysitting to make some extra money. Is that worth your time? Could you take another child or two to make it more lucrative? Could you find a paraprofessional (secretary, teacher's aide) job at one of your son's schools? Those can be nice b/c they are compatible with your children's schedules. Could your older sons pet-sit, dog-walk, house-sit for people in your neighborhood? Paper route? If they could each contribute $200/month to their tuition, that would ease the strain a bit.

I think you're in a similar situation to my family. We have three boys, and didn't spend too much on lattes and payments for fancy cars. Instead, we bought more house that we could afford because that's what people do when they have more kids, right? Buy a house that fits everyone. The path we're leaning toward is to have me bring in more income. But I know what you're saying about doing nothing, going nowhere. It would be easy to get out of debt if the debt was caused by irresponsible trips to Cancun, but when it's just your life getting you behind, it's harder to figure out what to do. And when it's not just your personal life, but 5 other people, that just adds another layer to the struggle.

I think the one idea that helped me the most so far in my baby stepping journey was someting AJ wrote in a post to someone else. She said that you only make so much money in your life; you have to decide whether you want to spend it paying for your past or providing for your future. That ticked me off when I read it, b/c in my mind, money was an easily renewable resource. I'll make more money later, more than enough to cover what I'm not making now. But the more I thought about it, the more ticked off I got at the idea of paying for junk I bought five years ago. I plan to return to work full time when all my kids are in school, and how awesome would it be at that point to double our income and none of the extra is already owned by someone else. Thus, the baby steps began.

I don't know if this helps, but that's my story. And I'm stickin' to it.

Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Print the post Back To Top
Author: mom4boys4 One star, 50 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 247977 of 308230
Subject: Re: HERE IT IS - MY MAJOR CC DEBT !!! Date: 2/21/2007 9:12 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
But remember something; there are plenty of people who have been resolving these exact same questions for years. Either both parents work, or there's a single parent, or there's a temporary problem. In a Long Island suburb I suspect that there are plenty of people who can offer ideas. They haven't had the option of having a parent stay home all the time. They have coped because they had to cope.


I could look into the Nanny on Call actually never heard of that. But the way all my friends cope with this is family. That is huge here. Most of their parents or their sisters or what have you not only live here they live around the block. They all live in close proximity I am an oddity here. But yes I'm aware people have done this for years. Again its just a matter of sitting down and figuring out a plan.

But I do think if I worked outside the home not only would I have a larger income but I would also have the benefits.

M4B4

Print the post Back To Top
Author: mom4boys4 One star, 50 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 247979 of 308230
Subject: Re: HERE IT IS - MY MAJOR CC DEBT !!! Date: 2/21/2007 9:23 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
AJ wrote in a post to someone else. She said that you only make so much money in your life; you have to decide whether you want to spend it paying for your past or providing for your future.

Oh my Gosh I LOVE this statement. This could be my new mantra. I need a mantra it helps me.

I plan to return to work full time when all my kids are in school,

This was my thought exactly. And this is the first year in 15 years I have all my children in full day school. And I am flat busted broke. But I was here for them - that was always so incredibly important to me it still is this is what holds me back sometimes. It is very difficult for me to sacrifice on their behalf. Naive maybe but it is just how I am. I am realizing though that I may just have to. I honestly couldn't even imagine not being at the front door when my 6 year old got off the school bus. I have always been here for everything. I am afraid I might miss a bad mood, or a sad feeling, and I wouldn't be here to make one of them feel better as I send them out the door to face their day. I don't know how not to be that way.

Thanks for sharing your story. Sharing helps.
M4B4

Print the post Back To Top
Author: Amy4Tybee Two stars, 250 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 247980 of 308230
Subject: Re: HERE IT IS - MY MAJOR CC DEBT !!! Date: 2/21/2007 9:28 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
>>>I agree the car must go. So he would have to take out a loan in order to buy one though. Thats the only way. As you have probably noticed we have NO money.<<<

I'd rather have that debt that the larger car loan.



Print the post Back To Top
Author: nebroots One star, 50 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 247981 of 308230
Subject: Re: HERE IT IS - MY MAJOR CC DEBT !!! Date: 2/21/2007 9:31 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 2
Here's another crazy idea? Could you waitress during the lunch shift somewhere? I was sitting at Outback Steakhouse one night (clearly before we stopped using credit cards) and looked at our $60 tab and started calculating the percentages. 15% is 9 bucks, times 6 tables our waitress had, times turning them 5X per shift is 9X6X5 = $270/shift. That would be for a Friday/Saturday night, but there are busy lunch places where people who work go, everybody orders an $12-15 meal and they're back to work in 45 minutes. Not saying you'd do it forever, but just for some cash to plug the gap right now while you're making a plan?

Print the post Back To Top
Author: mom4boys4 One star, 50 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 247982 of 308230
Subject: Re: HERE IT IS - MY MAJOR CC DEBT !!! Date: 2/21/2007 9:33 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
I'd rather have that debt that the larger car loan.


I agree 100% !!!!

Print the post Back To Top
Author: mom4boys4 One star, 50 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 247983 of 308230
Subject: Re: HERE IT IS - MY MAJOR CC DEBT !!! Date: 2/21/2007 9:34 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
Here's another crazy idea? Could you waitress during the lunch shift somewhere? I was sitting at Outback Steakhouse one night (clearly before we stopped using credit cards) and looked at our $60 tab and started calculating the percentages. 15% is 9 bucks, times 6 tables our waitress had, times turning them 5X per shift is 9X6X5 = $270/shift. That would be for a Friday/Saturday night, but there are busy lunch places where people who work go, everybody orders an $12-15 meal and they're back to work in 45 minutes. Not saying you'd do it forever, but just for some cash to plug the gap right now while you're making a plan?

Not a bad idea I would have to do it at night though. I babysit during the day.

But see you guys are getting my brain going I like this !!!!!

M4B4

Print the post Back To Top
Author: regattagirl Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 247985 of 308230
Subject: Re: HERE IT IS - MY MAJOR CC DEBT !!! Date: 2/21/2007 9:47 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 10
M4B4!!!

Hey Hey...If you are smart enought to stay with the board, and it seems so, YOU WILL MAKE IT THROUGH THIS. These folks are better than any counceling or debtors anonymous or financial advisors for getting through debt situations.

Often people get scared off by the tough love but you are to the point in your financial life that you MUST STAY. I can promise that if you take the recommendations of the people here, in a very short time you will start to feel a weight lifted off of you AND I can promise that things you didn't even think of that are not actually $$ will come to order in your life simultaneously. It's some sort of fundamental property like gravity or something.

Plus, you will get to know people's personalities, that they really do care, are extremely willing to help and in some cases just don't have enough of their own numbers to crunch, they need to crunch mine and yours too.

I'm not really into the number crunching (although I'm very mathematical and went to school for accounting) rather I'm into fixing the way I think in order to fix my debt.

For me the most frustrating thing about debt was that when you are in deep enough or mad enough or something enough to make you decide that you can't live like this anymore...and you decide to change...you still have to dig yourself out.

Just like your debt slowly getting fixed in dollars, it has to be fixed in your brain too. Start with the suggestions people are making and it will be such a relief to make the progress that you'll be exicited and open to things that we can't see and only you can. Then when you feel successful, you'll be open to more ideas and paying off your debt will become a healthy obsession.

I'm telling you this because it's going to suck. It's going to be really painful. You are going to make progress and then fall. But you can't grow without the pain and if you don't grow, you'll fall right back in again.

I want you to know that I'm so excited for you to be here. You are like our new little bird that we all need to take care of because we've ALL been there in some form...some even worse than you...some still digging out...so WE KNOW what you are going through.

YOU ARE NOT ALONE.

Hang in there! Many hugs.

Regatta

SAHM = Stay At Home Mome (most acronyms can be googled)
this is where to find info about style in your posts
http://www.fool.com/community/foolboards/bells.htm#Styling

Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Print the post Back To Top
Author: electrasmom Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 247987 of 308230
Subject: Re: HERE IT IS - MY MAJOR CC DEBT !!! Date: 2/21/2007 9:58 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 4
Here are 2 more ideas that I thought of after reading everyone else's posts.

1. Can you work off-shift from your husband? That way you can be home during the day and when he gets home, you go to work and he is now in charge. No worry about babysitters, etc.

2. Very drastic. But you did mention 2 things that made me think of this. You don't live near your family and your husband took a pay cut. Have you thought about moving our of NY to a less expensive part of the country? Maybe near either of your families? Yes, I know this is drastic, but sometimes you just have to think outside of the box.

I only mention number 2, because I am originally from the East coast (NJ to be exact). I realized that I would never be able to own a condo, never mind a house. At the age of 28, I transferred to TX and within 7 months, bought my first house. But again, I didn't have a DH and 4 kidlets to deal with either.

electrasmom

Print the post Back To Top
Author: mom4boys4 One star, 50 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 247988 of 308230
Subject: Re: HERE IT IS - MY MAJOR CC DEBT !!! Date: 2/21/2007 10:06 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
These folks are better than any counceling or debtors anonymous or financial advisors for getting through debt situations.

One I just wanted to see if I did the italics correctly. I'm so glad you pointed this out. In all my other posts I just did a copy and paste. Could actually make my posts a little difficult to read. Also can't believe I didn't figure out that SAHM meant stay at home mom. Thanks for that link - very helpful.

But also, yes these people are AWESOME !!!! I will never leave. LOL


I'm telling you this because it's going to suck. It's going to be really painful.

I can handle pain. As long as there is light at the end of the tunnel as long as there is an end result an end of any kind I can handle pain. I am BEYOND up for this CHALLANGE I'm on board. Now I have to sit down and really chisle away at these expenses and plot out new ways to bring in some cold hard CASH !!!!!!

Thanks for your post !!!!

M4B4





Print the post Back To Top
Author: mom4boys4 One star, 50 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 247989 of 308230
Subject: Re: HERE IT IS - MY MAJOR CC DEBT !!! Date: 2/21/2007 10:11 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
,i.1. Can you work off-shift from your husband? That way you can be home during the day and when he gets home, you go to work and he is now in charge. No worry about babysitters, etc.

2. Very drastic. But you did mention 2 things that made me think of this. You don't live near your family and your husband took a pay cut. Have you thought about moving our of NY to a less expensive part of the country? Maybe near either of your families? Yes, I know this is drastic, but sometimes you just have to think outside of the box.

Well right now I babysit from 8 - 5:30. My husband is actually home by 2:30 if he doesn't stay overtime. Which is double time or double time and a half. The thing is you never know until the last minute if he is staying or not.

My husband born and raised in New York has been with his company for 25 years I don't see him going anywhere. Me I would consider moving after my two older sons are out of high school. But it would be hard for my husband.

M4B4

Print the post Back To Top
Author: regattagirl Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 247990 of 308230
Subject: Re: HERE IT IS - MY MAJOR CC DEBT !!! Date: 2/21/2007 10:13 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 4
hee hee...

We teach her italics and now we can't stop her.

How can you not love this one?

Print the post Back To Top
Author: regattagirl Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 247991 of 308230
Subject: Re: HERE IT IS - MY MAJOR CC DEBT !!! Date: 2/21/2007 10:15 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
You can also preview your posts to see if the italics worked by choosing the preview button.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: mom4boys4 One star, 50 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 247992 of 308230
Subject: Re: HERE IT IS - MY MAJOR CC DEBT !!! Date: 2/21/2007 10:17 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
Thank you your too funny. I still don't have it right now all my text is in italics not just the section I tried to copy. I'll keep practicing I will get it right.

M4B4

Print the post Back To Top
Author: aj485 Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 247993 of 308230
Subject: Re: HERE IT IS - MY MAJOR CC DEBT !!! Date: 2/21/2007 10:25 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 35
OK AJ your scarying me !!!!! Thanks for re-running my numbers. What do you think about selling my house. Mortgage is $214,000 can sell house for about $550,000. Moving into a smaller place (double up the boys) less expensive.

Okay, so the home equity is an asset that you can use. You aren't in as bad a shape as I feared, since you have ~$200k in equity after selling costs. However, if you sell, you will probably need to rent for a while, because right now, your credit and income probably won't qualify you for a great mortgage, even on a less expensive house.

I am concerned, though, that if you sell the house, even if you pay off the current debt, you still haven't resolved the fact that you are spending at a rate that would be more compatible with an income at least twice what your family income is.

Assuming that you could get a 3 BR rental for around $1750 (a stretch, I would guess, both on the home size and price on LI) - that's still only $500 less a month than you are paying in mortgage, insurance and taxes right now. Paying off all of the CC debt would save you another $1650. You would still be spending $850 - $1850 more than your income per month!!!!

I suppose you could spend the rest of the house money on a month by month basis, and get by for 3.5 more years until the freshman graduated. Of course, at that point, you would have a whopping $50k left out of your $200k that you realized from the house, so you would have spent 75% of your equity.

And by then, the 10 year old would be 14 and a freshman, and you would be paying for college for 2 kids......So I doubt that $50k would last long. So in 5 years, you could have spent all of the equity from your home, still be in a rental, and be building up debt again.

So, once again, you need to increase your income, as we;; as decreasing your expenditures.

What if someone is sick what if the little one has a day off etc. I have no family here they are all out of state. Then there is the summer I can't leave four kids ages 16, 14, 10 and 6 all home alone all day everyday.

How do you suppose that single parents deal with this? First of all, a 16 year old is definitely old enough to watch his younger brothers during the summer. Even the 14 year old should be old enough to watch the youngest two, if the 16 year old wanted to get a job. That's what phones are for.

And if one of the younger kids is sick, I would guess that there is daycare for sick children - here it's based in one of the hospitals and it's called Coughs and Cuddles. And some employers (including mine) subsidize it around here - employees at my company only have to pay $2 - $3 an hour for their child to be taken care of by a nurse. If one of the older kids is sick - again, that's what phones are for. And if the kids have days off that don't match because of different schools - you either take a day of vacation, and watch your kid and some other Moms' kids, or have another Mom watch your kid, while you go to work.....

Or you can declare bankruptcy, lose everything and probably end up at work again anyway because your marriage will have broken up.

I'm serious - it sounds like you, your family finances and your relationship are in that much trouble.

So, my first recommendation is that you get a job, even before you consider selling your house. Then you and DH need to sit down and realistically figure outgo what your income will support. And let me give you a hint - it's probably not private school, even if you do get a job.

If you do decide to pay for private school for the older two kids, realize that it will probably cause you to be unable to contribute toward any of your kids' college costs - even the youngest! What's more important? Private school for 2 kids now? Or college for all 4 of them?

I do think that if you make some hard decisions now, you can work your way out of this. But you need to be open to making uncomfortable changes. And don't worry, we have lots of suggestions for uncomfortable changes that can be made! ;-)

Good luck!

AJ

Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Print the post Back To Top
Author: rah1420 Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 247994 of 308230
Subject: Re: HERE IT IS - MY MAJOR CC DEBT !!! Date: 2/21/2007 10:44 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
I don't know what they charge for overage.

Generally about 25 cents per mile, though it could be less.

So that leased car is now going to cost another $20 grand for the buyout, or at .25/mile and 60K over it'll be $15,000 for the mileage penalty.

Sucks no matter what you do. I have a leased car that I ended up taking out a car loan on. It'll be paid in April, thank goodness. I'll never make that mistake again.


Print the post Back To Top
Author: mom4boys4 One star, 50 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 247996 of 308230
Subject: Re: HERE IT IS - MY MAJOR CC DEBT !!! Date: 2/21/2007 10:57 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 3
Or you can declare bankruptcy, lose everything and probably end up at work again anyway because your marriage will have broken up.

I'm serious - it sounds like you, your family finances and your relationship are in that much trouble.

I am now fully aware we are in that much trouble. I'm positive but SCARED to death at the same time is that even possible. I am really scared.

Like I said I do babysit from 8:00 - 5:50 Mon - Fri but maybe I should go out into the big world and retain a more lucrative position. That is probably what I should do first.

,b>If you do decide to pay for private school for the older two kids, realize that it will probably cause you to be unable to contribute toward any of your kids' college costs - even the youngest! What's more important? Private school for 2 kids now? Or college for all 4 of them?

I liked this statement as well. I actually never looked at it in these terms. I don't see how I will afford college in two years I can't begin to imagine. (where did 16 years go?)I'm so overwhelmed with just day to day finances. But your statement is right on the money. Makes me think.

I would guess that there is daycare for sick children

I have NEVER heard of this ever. Not even from all my girlfriends who work. This is totally new to me. Interesting very interesting. And in answer to your question I don't know how single parents do this. I give them so much CREDIT. I am in awe of them really.

Like I said I have so much to think about and put into action. First thing tomorrow I start with the paper. Temp and Job placement agencies etc.

I will put selling the house on hold for now. Assess everything I've read speak to my DH and see where we can begin to dig in. Thanks AJ you will never know how much I appreicate your input.

M4B4


Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Print the post Back To Top
Author: mom4boys4 One star, 50 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 247998 of 308230
Subject: Re: HERE IT IS - MY MAJOR CC DEBT !!! Date: 2/21/2007 11:02 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 5
So that leased car is now going to cost another $20 grand for the buyout, or at .25/mile and 60K over it'll be $15,000 for the mileage penalty.

Wow it just keeps getting worse !!!! Your right we will never make this mistake again.

M4B4

PS I finally figured out how to end my bold and italics I am sure you are all happy about this now you can my posts with ease of understanding. Sorry about that.


Print the post Back To Top
Author: AlisonWonderland Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 247999 of 308230
Subject: Re: HERE IT IS - MY MAJOR CC DEBT !!! Date: 2/21/2007 11:11 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 2
He drives to the city everyday for work.

From Long Island? I can't imagine anything that could make me agree to that.

I actually enjoyed reading on the train when I commuted to the city.

~~ Alison

Print the post Back To Top
Author: AlisonWonderland Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 248000 of 308230
Subject: Re: HERE IT IS - MY MAJOR CC DEBT !!! Date: 2/21/2007 11:11 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
By the way what is a SAHM ???

Stay At Home Mom

www.acronymfinder.com explains a lot of terms.

~~ Alison

Print the post Back To Top
Author: shirehobbit Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 248001 of 308230
Subject: Re: HERE IT IS - MY MAJOR CC DEBT !!! Date: 2/21/2007 11:11 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 2


Dear M4B4,

I just wanted to let you know that I'm rooting for you and your family, and that I greatly admire you for facing your debt, for your willingness to change both your own life and the lives of your family, and because you keep coming back -- despite the fact that our "tough love" can sometimes be downright brutal.

shirehobbit (who is sending moral support from Northern California)







Print the post Back To Top
Author: lynndawg Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 248002 of 308230
Subject: Re: HERE IT IS - MY MAJOR CC DEBT !!! Date: 2/21/2007 11:18 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
Dear M4B4,

I just wanted to let you know that I'm rooting for you and your family, and that I greatly admire you for facing your debt, for your willingness to change both your own life and the lives of your family, and because you keep coming back -- despite the fact that our "tough love" can sometimes be downright brutal.

shirehobbit (who is sending moral support from Northern California)


Ditto! - lynndawg (I said "ditto", but sometimes when people on TMF "second" a comment, they just repeat it and add their name to the signature, fyi)

Print the post Back To Top
Author: JJMSpartan Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 248003 of 308230
Subject: Re: HERE IT IS - MY MAJOR CC DEBT !!! Date: 2/21/2007 11:23 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
After taking a peek at what AJ laid out, along with the mortgage info, I see a bit different picture for M4B4. Here is my condensed version. I'll expect to see the flames fly soon...

Current budget defecit from AJ (not including multiple monthly expenses) ($1340)

Home value - guesstimate $500K (somewhat less than $550K)
Mortgage $214K

Equity available - Approx $285K - enough to pay off all CC's and 401(k) loan

Bills that can be paid off and monthly budget impact...
ALL CC's = +$1646
401(k) Loan Payoff = +$415

Expenses that must be re-thought and likely trimmed...
Private School = +$1260
Art Class = +$337

Effect of using the house for debt triage = defecit is gone, now a positive $2317 per month.

BUT... you still haven't accounted for many other bills. Here are some quick guesstimates of mine about what you might find yourself spending per month...
Groceries ~$800
Clothes ~$200
Household ~$200
Gas ~$400
Dining Out / Entertainment ~$250
Spending Money ~$500

The net of this is that you will still come out almost break even, unless your household bills run significantly over what I just laid out. And that's with clearing out all your CC's and 401(k) loan, PLUS cutting the private school and art lessons.

Those are big cuts and big changes, but they won't be enough if you can't control the spending AND increase the household income. You will end up in the same shape or worse if you don't make some serious lifestyle changes.

No one said it will be easy, but it needs to be done.

Good Luck...


Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Print the post Back To Top
Author: aj485 Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 248005 of 308230
Subject: Re: HERE IT IS - MY MAJOR CC DEBT !!! Date: 2/21/2007 11:30 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
Like I said I have so much to think about and put into action. First thing tomorrow I start with the paper. Temp and Job placement agencies etc.

I will put selling the house on hold for now. Assess everything I've read speak to my DH and see where we can begin to dig in. Thanks AJ you will never know how much I appreicate your input.


I am glad you have been stoic enough to keep coming back. With that attitude, I am sure you will be able to tackle this!

AJ

Print the post Back To Top
Author: determinedmom Big red star, 1000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 248006 of 308230
Subject: Re: HERE IT IS - MY MAJOR CC DEBT !!! Date: 2/22/2007 12:03 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 9
AJ wrote in a post to someone else. She said that you only make so much money in your life; you have to decide whether you want to spend it paying for your past or providing for your future.


I think this was written in a post to me... I know it was (and maybe she has used it for others as well). It was actually a big help to me as it helped me to clarify my thinking and my goals.

M4B4 - When you are in that terrible where you have to charge stuff so you can make the minimum expenses each month it is easy to just try to get through the day or the week or the month. In that place, it is easy to think to use debt to solve debt -- i.e. your talking about later getting a new lease for a lower monthly payment. It is easy to think that you are affording your life if you can meet the minimum payments (albeit by adding to debt).

But it is a house of card that will blown down by the slightest gust of wind.

In your other thread you mentioned that you put things like food and gas on credit cards. Is that being paid off monthly or is it just piling on to the debt. If it is the latter, then your house of cards is getting higher ahd higher and all the more precarious.

In the six months or so that I've been here I've seen a couple of other people post with dire situations like yours. Often they have soon vanished. I think that sometimes people just don't want to face up to reality. That doesn't change reality though.

Your reality is that you are spending money as if your income was twice what it was last year. Do I think your private school tuition is terribly expensive? Not really. I pay much more for one child to attend therapeutic school. Do I think you have legitimate reasons not to want to change your sons' school? Yes. Do I think you can afford the school? No.

Regardless of all the reasons you have given the reality is you can't afford to spend what you are spending. You don't have the money and all the good reasons for spending it don't cause that money to grow on trees.

If you want to live as if you had an income of $200,000 a year...then you need to find a way to make that much between you and your DH. If you can't do that, then you need to cut expenses.

Your son's will survive changing schools. My 15 year old son changed school districts this fall when we moved. He complained bitterly. We moved anyway. Guess what? He now has new friends and is quite happy in his new school. And, you know what? He has much more stability now with us having a stable financial situation. Moving and uprooting him wasn't what he wanted or liked but it was what was most responsible for us to do for the whole family.

Summer care for your kids. If you don't think the older child can watch the younger children. then send them to summer day care.

Care for your kids if they are sick when you work. For years we dealt with this (no family near us). DH or I would take a vacation or sick day to take care of a sick child. Older children can be left home. Call a nanny service for baby sitting. Yes, I've heard of child care for sick kids...never used it as my kids were never sick enough for it to be an issue. DH and I always alternated taking off work.

Expensive housing and living expenses. Consider moving. I don't mean just selling the house. I mean moving to a less expensive part of the country.

Oh == on the issue of blame. When I got religion on getting out of debt, I got some flack from my DH. From his standpoint, he saw me as the spendthrift and now suddenly I was the one wanting to cut expenses! And, often the expenses I wanted to cut were his (mine too, but he mostly noticed his). From my point of view, he had participated just as much in the overspending as I did. He knew our income, knew what we were spending. This was a joint thing.

What ended up working with him was to talk about long term goals -- when did he want to retire? How much money would we need? Given that we would earn a finite amount of money in our remaning work life (we are in our 50s), how could we get to our goal in order to be able to retire? Once we looked at the long term issues, it became easier to make the harder decisions.

Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Print the post Back To Top
Author: aj485 Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 248007 of 308230
Subject: Re: HERE IT IS - MY MAJOR CC DEBT !!! Date: 2/22/2007 12:04 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 3
I said I would guess that there is daycare for sick children

to which M4B4 replied I have NEVER heard of this ever. Not even from all my girlfriends who work. This is totally new to me. Interesting very interesting.

Hey - maybe it's a business opportunity for you, if they don't have something like it on LI.....

AJ

Print the post Back To Top
Author: regattagirl Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 248008 of 308230
Subject: Re: HERE IT IS - MY MAJOR CC DEBT !!! Date: 2/22/2007 12:11 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
Okay I copy the comments of the other person that you want to reference and paste it into the new window.

Then I jump to the beginning of their comment and type <> because the keys are right beside each other.

Then backspace to put an “i” in between the <>. That's how to indicate where to start using italics.

Then I jump to the end of the comment and type <> because the keys are still right beside each other.

Then backspace to put “/i” in between the <>. That's how to indicate where to end the italics.

Same with “b” for bold.

Don't worry about not knowing the acronyms and short hand and smart alec words. You'll catch on or just ask. You have enough to worry about right now.

Regatta


Print the post Back To Top