anybody notice this? maybe it was mentioned while i was out:The Motley Fool Community (Tri-annual), $149.00* The Motley Fool Community (Annual), $59.95* The Motley Fool Community (Monthly), $9.95*Here's a great 'original discovery' discussion thread of it: http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=18256099&sort=whole#18256887Annual fee is increased from $29.95 (doubled) to $59.95 ...Pressing their luck if ya ax me.gonna thin things out even further around here.I'm really sorry for this.Used to be "Learning Together" .. now "Paying Together":(laggardnl
This is more of a threat to me, personally, than terrorists waiting to shoot down a plane I may happen to be on. Probably, it isn't fair to equate the two since, I don't fly much. However, I do feel my friends are being held hostage in my "community" by those who have the ability and the talent to generate revenue through alternative means. This reminds me of the way the insurance industry works. jmo.Bruce
This is more of a threat to me, personally, than terrorists waiting to shoot down a plane I may happen to be on. Probably, it isn't fair to equate the two since, I don't fly much.Oh my god -I take it you are referring to my posting from one day ago (28411) which links to an article from Salon citing the eventual likelihood of terrorists employing shoulder launched missiles to take down american commercial airliners. Terrorists shooting down a commercial passenger liner involves 200 to 400 unsuspecting (and militarily uninvolved) men, women and children spiraling uncontrollably downward in a now useless tin-can in one of the most terrifying, puke (and other bodily-waste) soaked, screaming, choking, sobbing and smoke-filled final two to three minutes of doomed life that has ever been devised by man. This posting/link has to do with an increase in yearly rates for a group of folks who have demonstrated having the discretionary income to voluntarily pay for, and the excess time to enjoy, attending to the pleasures of an online service.I'm sorry, for I'm not wishing to be overly harsh or severe here, but I must say that for the life of me, I cannot see how, from the standpoint of the human heart, even the most distantly related comparative association could be imagined to exist between these two scenarios. jmo.nl(aghast)
Thought this was a really good point referencing the increase -- found on another board's discussion of it:"If the price doubles from $30 to $60, and half the folks leave, it's a financial wash for the brothers G, but a 50% loss of content for the remaining payers (unless new enrollment is so rapid that drop-out rate doesn't matter)."
Teri,I am indeed referencing your post relating to the salon story. And it brings a smile to my face to think that you cannot "see how, from the standpoint of the human heart, even the most distantly related comparative association could be imagined to exist between these two scenarios. jmo." I've had a considerable amount of time to think about that, so I don't smile in belittlement. You may not get this the first time around...I am more in fear of those who can limit my freedom than those who would take my life. Not that I hold my life as cheap. Only that freedom is more precious than life. Else, those who have defended it would not have so willingly given up their lives. I am saying that the Gardner's were smart enough to start this website and find funding for it without charging the community for the privilege of using it. Now, they are saying that they can no longer support the overhead without charging and charging double. This action tells me that 1) their business plan is flawed and they now expect us to pay for their mistake or 2) they have gotten avaricious. I don't think this is being holier-than-thou on my part because I came on board for a free website. They had a plan that excluded user fees. It, evidently, hasn't worked. If they feel they are free to charge for something they previously valued as a loss leader to attract people to their investment ideas then I think I can feel just as free to say they are attempting to capture my freedom to enjoy my online experience. Thus, a loss of my freedom in order to further the monetary goals of Fooldom. Now, as to the loss of my life from a missile attack on a jetliner...yes, it would be a horrible last few minutes but it would beat the slow lingering death I now face and the reality I wake up to every morning. You probably don't give a moment's thought to the way or the time of your death during the course of the day. In fact, according to a number of surveys done to understand peoples' attitudes toward death, most people report attitudes that correspond to denial that anything "bad" could happen to them. So, for me, I have no fear of a quick unexpected death because I've seen mine out there in the future and I already have had a little taste of what it will be like.Bruce
I am more in fear of those who can limit my freedom than those who would take my life. Not that I hold my life as cheap. Only that freedom is more precious than life. Else, those who have defended it would not have so willingly given up their lives.Amen Brother Bruce.By the way, you intimated recently that you're on chemo. Do you have cancer?Best,Jimi
Mr. B -We are in agreement that the MoFo Bros greed has become shamelessly transparent.I dont believe that I could ever satisfactorily answer to your views. Even if we lived next door to one another and could actually sit down face to face my sense is that the misdirection of our personal internal trajectories are different enough that no real sense of lasting satisfaction would result from it. Or, not for me at any rate. I am, of course, tempted to state that as "the maldirection of your internal trajectory...", but for the sake of diplomacy I state it as written. I could try to express again the gist of my point as simply as I am able, since you clearly did not get it the first time around. I could attempt to explain more explicitly that the article that I brought to the forum for consideration was not about you and your life, but about the horror that many many people OTHER than you may be facing.But I have noticed in the past that when things cross a certain threshold of diceyness, or approach a particular level of difficulty as characterised by dissagreement with another poster here, that you choose to begin openly referencing your own otherwise very personal situation. What I noticed was that this functioned effectively to immediately place your fellow 'player' in a very bad light indeed. Any further insistence on his own position, no matter how clearly he perceived your error, no matter how strongly and righteously he felt his conviction, only served to cast him ever more convincingly into the mold of a decidedly non-caring bully. What, with another, may likely have become a vital discussion of point and counterpoint - with you suddenly became about you and your own particular situation in life as you perceive it as being different from those around you. And any continuation on his part could not be helped but be perceived as calously and improperly without consideration of you and of your burden. Just as my posting a link to an article about the very real possibility of the unimaginably horrible deaths of hundreds of real people immediately became about you and your situation and the supposed denial of everyone else but you ('most people'). Let me state again that I believe that no ultimately cuddely meeting of minds will result from any effort on our parts. I can live with that. I've spent a lifetime around issues of personal communications and focused work towards the clarification and understanding of mind and of differences .. you get to sensing when it aint in the cards, and you simply work as honestly and as positively as is possible with what you DO have. But even though I dont forsee a meeting of minds here let me just say this: you have no idea whatsoever what anyone else here faces on a day to day basis in the reality of their own personal lives. none. none at all. Any thinking that you do is sheer delusion.Your subjectively formed assumptions of what I or anyone else here do or do not experience first hand, what we do or do not give thought to .. what I or they may or may not be going through at any given time, or have gone through, or will go through in our lives .. or what those who closely comprise my world of personal caring and value, or theirs, may have faced or may be facing, are just that and no more; subjectively formed assumptions of your own based on next to nothing. None of what you may be facing informs you of any of this, and none of what you may be facing in any way lessens or diminishes or devalues the human experience of others throughoout their brief stay here. Every living being who has ever graced this impermanent world has personally experienced real sorrow and real loss, and has finally or will finally face and succumb to death. In your last lines, in addition to your casual dismissal of the masses as living lives of shallow denial, you bothered to go out of your way to attempt to semi-define my specific relationship to death as unconsidered. But you dont know me or my life, and you have no idea. Again, I'm not going to expect this communique to alter a single thing. But I've just said what I felt it necessary to say.I've had a long and involved day and it's now well past 5:00 a.m. for me -- hence, this was 'penned' under less than optimal conditions. Hopefully something of it will make sense, regardless. I haven't the wherewithall right now to try an make any more certain than I have.Keep smilin -- smilin's good.nl(off to bed)
well,i think they should be Paying folks likeecon, the rat, and mishedlo to stay.then there are the brucebrowns and tinkershawsangrycandy, andrewvare, on and on...all those tho are doing more teaching than learning herebouts.these folks go andthe fool be dead dead dead.jaz
I am going to send off a note to Todd Harrison and see if he wants to recruit some of the old fools for possible message boards his new site.He is the only guy on the net with valuable real time insight.And anyone that goes out and has beers with his readers over the holiday is cool with me. That and using cartoons to discuss billions of dollars has a nice feel to it.
only fools bite the hand that feeds.as poor a choice as their stock picking
all those tho are doing more teaching than learning herebouts. Jaz,I absolutely agree and concur. Too bad I can only rec your comment once.gr
Hey Jimi,Yep. Non-Hodgkins lymphoma, an incurable yet very slow and 'manageable' cancer that kills about 20,000 people a year.Bruce
Sort of ironic, isn't it, that anyone who had followed the Fool's advice over the last 3 years, would have lost 1/2 their portfolio, at a minimum; yet, now they want people to pay double for that harmfall advice.TMF could do one simple thing that would make their site worth something - ADD TOOLS FOR TRADERS - decent charts, an on-staff technician, an occassional guest editorical, some creative partnerships like a co-membership with thestreet.com or something......as it is, Jazbo is correct - the only thing that makes the fool worthwhile is the wisdom of the members - and I would definitely add jazbo to that list!
Thanks for your thoughts, Teri. However, in reply to them I can only say that I am convinced that the only way for a person to "feel" something in any online conversation is to consider how it affects him or her personally. Personally, given a choice, I would rather not think about how I will die, would rather go quickly, and would rather go non-violently. I've given it considerable thought. However, because I have and choose to express it in light of the alternative you presented is no reason to believe that I am callous and reasonably arrogant toward the fate of other people. I attempted to show you the depth of my caring for others by talking only in terms of how it would affect me and my life. I assumed you would understand if I spoke from first person experience rather than from something I had witnissed. As to the story of my life...so what? You have ample space to share here whatever you desire of your personal life, no one is stopping you. It is your decision. Because I share mine and you don't share yours doesn't make my life experiences any less valid and yours more valid because you don't 'unburden' yourself here from time to time, but 'keep it all in'. Really, whether you have a great or a terrible life maybe no one here knows, but that doesn't mean this is no place to share whatever you want. Generally, it is difficult for men to express feelings, especially so with people they are not close to. However, many organizations function with just this level of required knowledge of another's personal story. I can think of military men and women, fire department personel, cops, medical personel, mostly people in contact with dangerous situations on a daily basis or people required to act under pressure. My point is, without saying to your comrades, "This is who I am and what I stand for.", any person will be less likely to catch on wherever life takes them. That is why I am open about what happens to me, it eases my burden and tells others I haven't anything to hide from them. As to whether we would have an eventual convergence of opinion on something, maybe not. But that doesn't preclude understanding one another better. Hope this lets you know more about what I value. As was said somewhere, things are likely to get somewhat thin around here. If I'm gone, and I see no reason to contribute to the Gardner's wealth creating plan, then there will be one less person to banter with here. Best that those remaining know something of you in order to tighten those bonds that keep this group together. Without them, there isn't much reason for continuing.Bruce
Read about Todd Harrison on another board but only that he's writing again, no specifics I can remember for sure.
TMF could do one simple thing that would make their site worth something - ADD TOOLS FOR TRADERS - decent charts, an on-staff technician, an occassional guest editorical, some creative partnerships like a co-membership with thestreet.com or something...=======never happen, it goes against everything they stand for (LTBH)In regards to Todd, he does have good value added commentary, however he is charging $10 month starting 1/1/03, certainly well worth it IMO.OTOH the knowledge available here on many boards assuming most of the best posters remain is also well worth TMF fee. The problem is in the way TMF has handled this whole issue, they should have started charging back in 98-99 and it would have been no problem, like SI with their $100 lifetime back then, this change last Feb was right in the midst of extreme pain and losses for most TMF'ers and many from following TMF advice, it really became a personal issue against TMF rather than viewing it from a cost vs value standpoint. All of us on many boards have learned stuff that has more than paid for the fee. I was comped and took advantage of the extra three years for $29.95 so there is no decision to be made by me.In any event we should be prepared for an exodus and maybe start a board on yahoo,Ihub,SI etc. that at least we could move to.I belong to a few groups at Yahoo and like the option of email delivery.donv
We knew it couldn't last forever... not for free, at least. SANO
- ADD TOOLS FOR TRADERS - decent charts, an on-staff technician, an occassional guest editorical, some creative partnerships like a co-membership with thestreet.com or something...I don't think I would want to trust the TMF company for the tools I depend on. I get great charts and TA tools through Cybertrade... technical analysis is an 800 phone call.
we should be prepared for an exodus and maybe start a board on yahoo,Ihub,SI etc. that at least we could move to.Seems like most of the closed club boards that started in response to TMF's charging gradually fizzled out.
We knew it couldn't last forever... not for free, at least.Reckon someone always has to foot the bill. Who knows, these boards may be a lifesaver for someone.Bruce
"Seems like most of the closed club boards that started in response to TMF's charging gradually fizzled out."Some did some did not. It seems to me that there is a wealth of expierance from former and current yahoo board members and moderatiors to be able to exchange information,and come up with what works and what dosent work? What is a succussful board?"In any event we should be prepared for an exodus and maybe start a board on yahoo,Ihub,SI etc. that at least we could move to.I belong to a few groups at Yahoo and like the option of email delivery.donv" I for one would like to persue this matter futher.(if there is other intrest out there)? Mike
I for one would like to persue this matter futher.(if there is other intrest out there)?Mike Mish had this to say:We have gone down this path before and no acceptable answers have come up. I would hope that if the answer is to go somewhere else, then most here would follow.If rat and myself and a couple other key players all left, I am sure the FOOL would have made a huge mistake in raising rates.The problem with Ihub is that to use all the features (searching and seeing multiple posts at one) requires you to pay. Ihub would give me a free pass I am 100% positive and rat as well but to use some of the better features of Ihub requires $ for everyone else.There are places on Yhoo we could go at no cost but YHOO boards are not the most orderly. I really like the thread concept here and that is a feature not present other places.In short there are no really good answers. I will discuss this with rat, and perhaps with some programming or something else we could set up our own board somewhere. If we did and it required work, it is likely that we would have to charge something as well but perhaps we could do a lot better than $59.If the FOOL is bound and determined to kick themselves where it hurts, then it is once again time to consider alternatives. I talk to rat most every day, so I will discuss this with him this weekend.M
Mike,I like your enthusiasm. But you would really have to commit to saving the price of admission here. This board will typically produce a hundred or more very terse posts a day. Can you imagine those on Yahoo or in your mailbox. My experience has been to get about a hundred e-mails a day from the 7 Yahoo boards I subscribe to, that's a load to wade through. Donv said it when he said that this was a no decision in his mind. If you don't have some real problem with TMF then it's a cheap price to pay for the value offered.Bruce
I for one would like to persue this matter futher.(if there is other intrest out there)?Mike ===========well here is an option in the event we lose people and can't locate them we did it at HR board when we thought TMF was maybe closing, the purpose was to have a board up and running that folks could find others and then decide what to do or where to go.We don't use it and I am not the moderator Kelley Chou AKA "highreturn" is, anyway folks could sign on as a member and in the event something happens that could be a place to communicate and come up with the plan.The key factor is being able to contact everyone in the event something happens, of course we were concerned with a shutdown not people voluntarily leaving.anyway this board is there and open it requires no approval etc to join so at least a stop gap for the interim to at least put your name to be contacted in the event something happens. Obviously my choice would be that everyone just stays here, but if that doesn't happen I would the group to continue somewhere.http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HighReturn/
Thanks for your reply Bruce."commit to saving the price of admission here."For me,this is not really the point,I see nothing wrong with paying for an education."This board will typically produce a hundred or more very terse posts a day."This is more to the point.At some point things turn into idle chat as opposed to a working learning enviorment."7 Yahoo boards I subscribe to"If you don't mind, could you tell us a little about your expierance with these?How well do they help with on going education?Do they tend to be more direct and to the point?What are the qualitys you would say makes one more successful than another one? Any thing else you or anybody has to say about the learning value of yahoo boards?Perhaps theres already an existing board that foucus's on topics I'm looking for,but I think the better ones are not listed,any tips on how to search these out? Thanks Mike
I've got to tell you 2 of those boards have almost nothing to do with investing except for the leads into drug and biotech companies they sometimes provide. Of the other 5, one is devoted to Excel spreadsheets and is not terribly active on a daily basis. The remaining 4 are all investment related and have to do with swing trading, market forecasting, and futures. None of them have anything to do with what's discussed here, usually. Most of the links I have have already been posted here. Additionally, if education is what you seek then read the FAQ from: http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=14897617. Although it is for daytrading there is some good info there. In fact, Jazbo participated in writing the early version of that FAQ while Warren and I made some contributions to later additions. If you hang around here any length of time you'll pick up some stuff. Usually, though, you have to participate and make a few offerings yourself before you run across something worthwhile. Chat is a big part of the day because it releases the pressure of being in a position that may be uncomfortable or very profitable, both situations create pressure. Need to get going, I'll be back Wednesday or Thursday.Bruce
We don't use it and I am not the moderator Kelley Chou AKA "highreturn" is, anyway folks could sign on as a member and in the event something happens that could be a place to communicate and come up with the plan.I forgot all about joining that board *chuckle* .... last message was in June... yet there it is in my groups file. A group tried the "closed" Yahoo board concept, but people seemed to lose interest as the market tanked, and being a closed board, no "new blood" could drop in to participate. My main concern with the higher TMF price will be its barrier effect to people with lots of good ideas, but little money. Time will tell.Sure are a lot of Yahoo boards!Currency (135) Daytrading (495) Futures and Options (395) General (752) Growth (190) IPOs (70) International (449) Mutual Funds (95) NAIC (318) Online Investing and Trading (546) Retirement Planning (94) Sectors (1963) Short Selling (45) Short Term Trading (234) Small-Caps (165) Socially Responsible Investing (134) Software (205) Stock Picks (458) Teen Investors (98) Value (74) Women Investors (124_________________SANOhanging out trading hours at www.wizardscall.com
SANOhanging out trading hours at www.wizardscall.com===========how is dave and all the wizards doing, went there a few weeks ago and it asked me to reregister I guess if your not active dave cleans up the serverdonv
how is dave and all the wizards doing, went there a few weeks ago and it asked me to reregister I guess if your not active dave cleans up the serverNow and then the server glitches, but we just roll with it. Many of the TMF refugee participants have moved on to dayjobs, but check in regularly... the core folk hangout daily, swappin lies and swattin' flies. Dave's fine, and we're very appreciative of his patience with us, and dedication to his site.Drop on by any old time... trading hours... the more the merrier.SANO
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