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Author: Colovion Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 734838  
Subject: Here's my thing about SS Date: 10/30/2013 2:31 PM
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Even if it isn't a terrible Ponzi Scheme (which it is, but I digress) that isn't destined to collapse in a fiery ball of death and destruction (only a slight exaggeration) because of how terrible it is (have I mentioned it's terrible yet? I can't stress that enough) when you see headlines like this:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101155087

Social Security COLA going up only 1.5%

-----

Who can say that the most prudent choice of action is to pretend that SS is simply a tax stolen from your paycheck every month and invest like it WON'T BE THERE when you retire? If you invest like it won't matter then it won't matter that COLA is only a measly 1.5% because won't be relying on the generosity of leviathan for your financial well-being now will you? Of course not. Hell, you might realize that it's all a sham and vote accordingly...

Alright, too much to hope for. But I can't help but laugh at people upset that they're only getting a 1.5% increase in their welfare from Uncle Sugar (yes, that is what it is, I don't care how long or how much you paid into it you're on the dole pal) when, hey, that's what you wanted and voted for! You wanted it, you got it, stop whining.
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Author: JediGALT Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 703232 of 734838
Subject: Re: Here's my thing about SS Date: 10/31/2013 6:35 AM
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If the U.S accepts a huge. huge influx of younger workers from other countries..........

And eventually baby boomers die............

Won't that assuage the "too many retirees" problem? Wouldn't a bunch of new young immigrants at work mean more people paying into the system?

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 703236 of 734838
Subject: Re: Here's my thing about SS Date: 10/31/2013 7:52 AM
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"f the U.S accepts a huge. huge influx of younger workers from other countries..........

And eventually baby boomers die............

Won't that assuage the "too many retirees" problem? Wouldn't a bunch of new young immigrants at work mean more people paying into the system?"

heh heh

Most of those new 'young workers' that Obama is allowing to sneak in.......are low wage workers, their relatives, their in laws, their parents, their grandparents....

Once upon a time, we used to have a preference for EDUCATED, hard working middle class type people as immigrants.

Now, Obama and the drones prefer poor, non educated, low skill workers who are able to run faster than the border guards are sneak in on boats.

The system will be a lot worse off with 90% of them either working minimum wage (and collecting huge ObamaKare subsidies, food stamps, housing aid)........ and barely paying anything into SS and Medicare with their $8/hr jobs.

we restrict most of the smart folks from entering.....the grandparents (who won't be working) of the existing 'immigrants' (border runners for the most part) have preference. So do aging Uncles and Aunts.

Just look to Obama as an example. His Uncle is on welfare in MA and barely stays out of jail. He's , I think, into drugs.

His Auntie, now in OH, was on welfare and public housing in MA until the heat got on her and she moved to OH...and now on public assistance.

Both of them here illegally but likely to get 'amnesty' under Obama's proposed bill.

So if we just use Obama (and his millions a year income which he doesn't share a dime with his 'relatives').....as an exmaple of lib thinking..

the whole system will quickly crater.

But that's the 'one worlder' Soros style Obama view of 'Open Borders'....




t.

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Author: arrete Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 703240 of 734838
Subject: Re: Here's my thing about SS Date: 10/31/2013 9:02 AM
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If the U.S accepts a huge. huge influx of younger workers from other countries..........

And eventually baby boomers die............

Won't that assuage the "too many retirees" problem? Wouldn't a bunch of new young immigrants at work mean more people paying into the system?
----------------

That's our theory, but they have to stay off the dole and not add to the problem.

arrete

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Author: Colovion Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 703242 of 734838
Subject: Re: Here's my thing about SS Date: 10/31/2013 9:05 AM
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Won't that assuage the "too many retirees" problem? Wouldn't a bunch of new young immigrants at work mean more people paying into the system?

It ends up being a death spiral which the system can't quite pull out of, with massive debt weighing it down so even equilibrium doesn't solve it, you need to actually reverse the trend so there are far more workers than recipients for a long time. It's possible to fix it that way, but you'd need a LOT of immigrants, which then just sets you up for failure down the road again unless you keep up that trend forever which is impossible thus it is destined to die like all Ponzi schemes.

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Author: JLC Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 703252 of 734838
Subject: Re: Here's my thing about SS Date: 10/31/2013 9:38 AM
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Who can say that the most prudent choice of action is to pretend that SS is simply a tax stolen from your paycheck every month and invest like it WON'T BE THERE when you retire?

Totally agree.

There was one sweet four year time span when I was in residency, we were considered state employees. We could opt out of paying into SS and into a deferred compensation plan that was ours. Like an individual IRA. Even though I didn't make jack as a resident, I managed to leave with $14k in my pocket.

JLC

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Author: JediGALT Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 703253 of 734838
Subject: Re: Here's my thing about SS Date: 10/31/2013 9:39 AM
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It won't be reformed, ever. At least not reformed into more personal ownership.

The only reform will be the following:

*Retirement ages will be hiked. Methinks it'll be 72-74.

*FICA taxes will be INCREASED. (Newly minted lower skilled workers won't care)

*Overall payouts will be REDUCED 5-7%.(Newly minted lower skilled workers will be thrilled just to get the checks)

*Means testing will be in place, where for some, that'll mean forced contributions into a welfare system but to many, it'll mean a somewhat free, subsidized SS check.

This is about the best case scenario we can all pray for.

I believe SS will always be around.

But I always TRY, try to look on it as a bonus. And even then I assume the benefit will be 90% of what the gov't promises.

JediG

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Author: 1HappyFool Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 703281 of 734838
Subject: Re: Here's my thing about SS Date: 10/31/2013 10:48 AM
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If the U.S accepts a huge. huge influx of younger workers from other countries..........

....at a time when unemployment is high and the economy is starved for capital because investors don't believe the current path is sustainable.

And eventually baby boomers die............

...after spending the last years of their lives running up huge Medicare expenses.

Won't that assuage the "too many retirees" problem? Wouldn't a bunch of new young immigrants at work mean more people paying into the system?

If the cure doesn't kill the patient by weakening the economy too much before enough boomers make their exit.

1HF

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Author: CCinOC Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 703295 of 734838
Subject: Re: Here's my thing about SS Date: 10/31/2013 11:21 AM
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but they have to stay off the dole and not add to the problem.

In Librul-land? Ha!

Used to be, immigrants couldn't wait to become "American" by learning English and paying taxes. Now it's just the opposite: voting info is printed in several languages, "press 1 for English; 2 for Spanish" is de rigueur and they demand every entitlement available--for as long as possible--the minute they get off the boat.

Let's face it: America is circling the drain.

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 703298 of 734838
Subject: Re: Here's my thing about SS Date: 10/31/2013 11:37 AM
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"Used to be, immigrants couldn't wait to become "American" by learning English and paying taxes. Now it's just the opposite: voting info is printed in several languages, "press 1 for English; 2 for Spanish" is de rigueur and they demand every entitlement available--for as long as possible--the minute they get off the boat.

Let's face it: America is circling the drain. "

The ObamaKare site is supposed to support 170 different languages.....

Heck, they have delayed the Spanish one - which is what, 20% of the US is Spanish only.....until Nov 1 since it is horribly terrible and non-operable......

I'd hate to see what the Laotian one and Arabic ones will look like.
And when they come on line.


t.

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Author: CCinOC Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 703299 of 734838
Subject: Re: Here's my thing about SS Date: 10/31/2013 11:40 AM
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I believe SS will always be around.

How can it not? Millions (and millions and millions) of Americans depend on SS. It must stay with us forever--even as we flush ourselves down the toilet.

The so called safety net has turned into a noose.

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Author: lowstudent Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 703301 of 734838
Subject: Re: Here's my thing about SS Date: 10/31/2013 11:41 AM
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If the U.S accepts a huge. huge influx of younger workers from other countries..........

And eventually baby boomers die............

Won't that assuage the "too many retirees" problem? Wouldn't a bunch of new young immigrants at work mean more people paying into the system?
----------------

Because America is in such dire straights we have work with no people to do the jobs, and an influx of unskilled labor is bound to make things better?

What in God's name is this person thinking?

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Author: lowstudent Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 703307 of 734838
Subject: Re: Here's my thing about SS Date: 10/31/2013 11:47 AM
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Who can say that the most prudent choice of action is to pretend that SS is simply a tax stolen from your paycheck every month and invest like it WON'T BE THERE when you retire?

Totally agree.
___________________________
You should agree, it never has been anything else

It was sold as something else, and they put a lot of bells ad whistles, but that is all it is, and all it has ever been

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 703308 of 734838
Subject: Re: Here's my thing about SS Date: 10/31/2013 11:48 AM
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"How can it not? Millions (and millions and millions) of Americans depend on SS. It must stay with us forever--even as we flush ourselves down the toilet.

The so called safety net has turned into a noose. "


When the gov't collapses, SS will be chopped by at least 50%. That is only 10 years off.

It's inevitable.

Congress won't reform the entitlements and they'll crash on their own. Between the new ObamaKare trillion dollar a year losses, adding another 10-12 instantly to the welfare rolls when 'immigration reform' passes, the Medicaid expansion....and the staggering losses in Medicare...... it's just five or 8 years off.....

In 10 years, unless the spendaholic congress reigns in spending, and there no likelihood of that, the Chinese aren't going to be lending us money at 1%. It will be more like 8% and the entire national budget and tax take will go to repaying just the interest on 25 trillion in government debt. It won't be able to borrow to 'redeem' those IOUs in the lock box and make payments.

I guess the lib-ness in you has blinded you to reality. To pay SS, the government must issue TRILLIONS in new debt so it has the money to pay SS benefits and Medicare and ObamaKare and Medicaid.

It's already projected SS 'take' from paychecks and employers must rise by 35% in just 10 years to avoid going broke.



t.

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Author: lowstudent Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 703319 of 734838
Subject: Re: Here's my thing about SS Date: 10/31/2013 12:10 PM
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but they have to stay off the dole and not add to the problem.
_________________________

Regardless of the phony numbers

We have over 12 percent current unemployment and that does not count illegal immigrants problems (who we know many have been chased for the country, by lack of work!)

Why are we letting more people in?

IT makes no sense at all.

The only people we fight against? Skilled labor and H1Bs

There are few people in Washington that should not be used for a first batch of Soylent Green

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Author: warrl Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 703329 of 734838
Subject: Re: Here's my thing about SS Date: 10/31/2013 12:37 PM
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And even then I assume the benefit will be 90% of what the gov't promises.

You're more optimistic than I. I assume a 50% chance that I'll get at least 50% of what the government promises.

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Author: warrl Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 703349 of 734838
Subject: Re: Here's my thing about SS Date: 10/31/2013 1:12 PM
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I believe SS will always be around.

How can it not? Millions (and millions and millions) of Americans depend on SS. It must stay with us forever--even as we flush ourselves down the toilet.


I have a very simple plan for terminating SS, without cutting off or shortchanging anyone. Of course, it's also a very SLOW plan.

Here it is in its entirety:

* Stop crediting people with SS earnings.

Yep, that's it.

Your eventual SS benefit will be based ENTIRELY on earnings reported before this plan takes effect.

If you've already stopped working, the change will not impact you at all.

If you're near retirement, it will have very little or no impact and you have a little time to prepare.

If you have quite a few years to go before retirement, it will have a larger impact but you have more time to prepare.

If you're very early in your work career, you will get no benefit but you have lots of time to prepare.

Eventually everyone who qualifies for any benefit at all will die and the program will terminate. I figure about 80 years.

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Author: warrl Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 703361 of 734838
Subject: Re: Here's my thing about SS Date: 10/31/2013 1:33 PM
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but they have to stay off the dole and not add to the problem.
_________________________

Regardless of the phony numbers

We have over 12 percent current unemployment and that does not count illegal immigrants problems (who we know many have been chased for the country, by lack of work!)

Why are we letting more people in?


The US faces a pair of macroeconomic/demographic problems:
* Our education system is not providing sufficient numbers of skilled workers, particularly in the crafts and trades but also in engineering and other similarly hard-science-intensive fields.
* Our economy is moving away from unskilled labor and can no longer offer passable wages to the number of such workers it naturally produces.

Importing more unskilled workers addresses NEITHER of these problems. In fact it makes them both worse, as such immigrants swell the numbers of the category of workers we have but don't need while calling upon the services of the workers we need but don't have.

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Author: tjscott0 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 703370 of 734838
Subject: Re: Here's my thing about SS Date: 10/31/2013 2:58 PM
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continuing tax revenue is expected to be sufficient to cover 76 percent of the currently scheduled benefits.
http://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/ssb/v70n3/v70n3p111.html

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Author: warrl Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 703380 of 734838
Subject: Re: Here's my thing about SS Date: 10/31/2013 3:50 PM
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continuing tax revenue is expected to be sufficient to cover 76 percent of the currently scheduled benefits.
http://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/ssb/v70n3/v70n3p111.html


But how are they going to distribute the shortfall? I have a decent pension and some assets, so by the normal punish-those-who-provide-for-themselves mechanism I figure I'll be seeing a bigger cut than most.

Unless, MAYBE, if I actually start drawing benefits before the "reform". Which is why I plan to start drawing benefits ASAP.

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