Hi Sykesix,the majority of people here don't want to believe things, we want to know things. Good! Along with your post, at least 5 people (at present) agree.We started out with Ray conceding that he had no competitive way of getting the same results with the same safety at a lower price than an IUL.I conceded that when an unlimited loss tolerance is acceptable, I have many other ways to potentially outperform an IUL... but unlimited loss tolerance isn't a characteristic of foundational retirement accounts.We agreed to explore how a naked S&P hold might compare to a hedged 0/12 strategy on the S&P, with the advance stipulations of our mutual concessions... and we *can* still do that further, if there's actually interest. It doesn't appear that there actually is, though (at least not judging by recs, and the lack of inquiries in regards to the non-loss strategies.)It appears to me that a massive amount of electrons appear to have been contorted into a contest that never was.I see some massive gaping holes in the acceptance of unlimited loss risks... The greatest 10, 20, 30 bagger opportunities occur when you have not lost any cash, and everyone else has been decimated and are waiting/praying for "the markets to come back."The greatest risks of collapse (foreclosure, bankruptcy, etc.) come at the exact same time.(Not ironically, the greatest opportunities usually come *FROM* bailing out foreclosures, bankruptcies & similar states of desperation!)Going naked in a market with frequent and unpredictable 30-50% drawdowns might be fine for the top 10-20% of a person's risk pyramid distribution... but not the foundation that everything is built upon, at risk of complete collapse.What do you want to know that you suspect you do not?Where is there an interest for learning here?Dave
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