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Author: zigmund555 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 943  
Subject: holy changes Date: 12/3/2004 2:51 PM
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Boy did they trash scrappers with Issue 3.

Account cancelled.

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Author: FordLove Big gold star, 5000 posts 10+ Year Anniversary! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 926 of 943
Subject: Re: holy changes Date: 12/3/2004 2:56 PM
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Boy did they trash scrappers with Issue 3.

Well, especially now that you have WoW.

What did they do to them that trashed them so?

All around whacking?

Ford
Over on Warcraft

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Author: zigmund555 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 927 of 943
Subject: Re: holy changes Date: 12/3/2004 3:39 PM
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Well, it seems to be becoming more and more apparent that Cryptic is from the game balancing school of "let's make some junk up and see if it works".

Scrappers had a few issues with them after update 2.

1. Regen had good mobile status protection.. very good. Invul had good protection but you were rooted in place. SR had pretty good eventually and Dark armor was just messed up.. lots of problems. Cryptic went and added a whole bunch of stunning mobs to many of the levels of the game. Take into consideration that most other ATs had a sparse amount of status protection with some having 0. So you were stunned or chain held quite frequently resulting in death and XP debt.

2. Instant Healing was overpowered. Many regen scrappers on the forums there were accepting of a scaling back of IH. Now it's nerfed something fierce. Also, you can't use it with status protection so it's either hope your healing keep up and risk a stun, or protect against stuns and have 0 defense other than pools.

3. Most tanks beefs were that they wanted more damage and wanted /invul scrappers toned down. /invul were toned down to a 75% resist cap vs. a 90% for tanks. Problem is.. 90% is way more than you need.. probably so is 75%. So now /invul scrappers have sufficient defense and considerably more offense than tanks. This doesn't fix tanks. They made tanks hold aggro better which is nice.

4. Blasters.. quite probably the most overpowered AT are buffed up again with awesome epic power pools. Scrapper epic power pools blow.

5. Scrappers were designed to be the solo class. They seem to be similar to Shamans in WoW which is why I made a shaman. Essentially you have a character that has medium offense/defense so they can do a little bit of everything. Can't replace another type of character but can be a substitute or backup. Now scrappers solo ability has been nerfed so they're now a subpar tank and a slightly above average damage dealer. Technically a shaman is much more versatile than a scrapper.

6. Dark armor scrappers who have a very versatile power set are broken because their armors don't stack. You wind up with the worst defenses of any melee class at the highest endurance cost. They're the least efficient melee hero to play. For months they have been clamoring for stackable armors to make them come more into line with the other scrapper secondaries. No go. First it was postponed from right after issue 2 to issue 3. Now it's issue 4.

7. Cryptic changes their story about changes every few days. First it's one thing, then it's another. Regen was a concern which is okay, but they said it wasn't a priority. Now they've totally redone the regen secondary and really put the hurtin on them.

Couple this with a recent buff to enemies HP/damage and you've nerfed them quite handily.

Bah.





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Author: FordLove Big gold star, 5000 posts 10+ Year Anniversary! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 928 of 943
Subject: Re: holy changes Date: 12/3/2004 4:01 PM
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Good stuff.
My Fear with these games is that I make a character I really like and then they cut the knees out from under it.

I took Provoke and a weak later they made it nearly useless. Fabulous. Can I have my choice back? You made a solid choice an awful choice.

It held a lot of mobs, but that's what it was suppose to do, I thought. With the nerf it was kind of an idiotic choice.

The worst is your case. Where you have developed a really viable character, then it becomes useless. Your favorate becomes crippled with no means to remedy the situation. Heck, grandfather us in or let us have a window of change.



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Author: jwarner932001 Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 929 of 943
Subject: Re: holy changes Date: 12/3/2004 4:09 PM
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I will probably end up canceling my account on COH as well... But more for the reason that advancement seems to take weeks of casual effort to level up to get one new power.

I know i have complained about it before but it gets tedious trying to level up and the battles tend to get tedious as well...

John

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Author: zigmund555 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 930 of 943
Subject: Re: holy changes Date: 12/3/2004 4:10 PM
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They made tank taunt AoE so you don't have to take the pool provoke anymore which is nice.

Scrappers still have the single target taunt that most people skip.


Correlating to WoW I'm sure shamans are high on the list for nerfage but I think paladins and rogues are the other 2 in the top 3. We'll have to see what happens.

From WC3 and TFT anyway blizzard was better about small changes.

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Author: FordLove Big gold star, 5000 posts 10+ Year Anniversary! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 931 of 943
Subject: Re: holy changes Date: 12/3/2004 4:15 PM
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Correlating to WoW I'm sure shamans are high on the list for nerfage but I think paladins and rogues are the other 2 in the top 3. We'll have to see what happens.

Did they nerf the emp deffender. I know Lost Child's Haste/End Field was seriously broken. I was close to keeping End Field up all the time, and that seriously changed the mechanics of the game.

I hope Blizzard keeps the changes in the incremnetal stage. There is a lot of whining that goes on in these games. I myself see no problem with Hunters having Rogue killing capablities.

My Warlock over there may be safe. Most of his PvE effectiveness comes from his combo with his pet. If the enemy heads straight for me, I'm pretty much screwed in my fine cloth armor.

Ford

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Author: zigmund555 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 932 of 943
Subject: Re: holy changes Date: 12/3/2004 4:18 PM
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No major changes to Defenders at all I don't think. Empathy had a change to.. Adrenaline Boost? I think they complained it was pointless and now it's better.

I don't mind a change, even a nerf so long as it isn't extreme. If it's broken remove it. If it's severely unbalancing remove it.

Just don't make a list of archtypes on big pieces of newspaper in some conference room then blindfold yerself and start peeing to see which one needs the nerf.




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Author: GusSmed Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 933 of 943
Subject: Re: holy changes Date: 12/3/2004 7:33 PM
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Well, it seems to be becoming more and more apparent that Cryptic is from the game balancing school of "let's make some junk up and see if it works".

Yeah, that was pretty apparent to me early on, given how many powers obviously had little or no value even on paper, and how some powers clearly were must-haves.

Most game designers work this way, sadly. Even very well known ones. In the years I've been in the game industry, I've yet to meet another designer who understands the numeric approach I take to game balance, or the concept that you have to differentiate different units / powers / whatever along different axises.

- Gus

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Author: zigmund555 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 934 of 943
Subject: Re: holy changes Date: 12/5/2004 2:43 PM
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Unfortunately I had good hopes because they took a different spin on things that they wouldn't fall into the same old traps.

I did some simplified coding / building on a MUD years ago and I found out then how hard it can be to balance different sets in an online game.

The trouble with cryptic is they're not listening to players and our feedback. I don't proclaim to be any guru but it's not a good idea to go and totally reconfigure powersets at this stage, especially since any form of pvp is a ways out.

I shudder to think how they're going to balance the ATs against any new villian types in City of Villians.



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Author: White0Wolf Big red star, 1000 posts CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 935 of 943
Subject: Re: holy changes Date: 12/7/2004 10:43 AM
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Well, they did listen and have made further changes, more in line to what the users were saying.

I think that the developers do a good overall job of listening to "reasonable" feedback, and looking at the numbers. They don't tend to jump at every suggestion, which they shouldn't.

I like most the changes they've made, I was disappointed when they reduced the difficulty after it had been increased in issue 2. I died more, but I had more fun as well.

PE

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