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Author: JDCRex Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 756373  
Subject: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/12/2007 5:18 PM
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Given that most of you reactionaries seem to be such experts on the unspeakable horrors of what it is like to be under the thumb of Muslims, I'd like to actually know where your considerable PERSONAL (not FoxNews, not WorldNetDaily, not Newsmax gleaned) knowledge of the situation comes from.

Do you (shock, horror) have any interaction with any? Do you live in close proximity to any? Do you work with any?

Just wondering why so many of you seem to be wetting your beds. I must be missing the devious signs of Sharia popping up that would have me running around like a headless chicken screeching for expulsions.

Honestly. Some of you sound so demented that it's literally frightening. But thanks at least for providing a glimpse into the moral and logical depravity of the obsessed right wing mind. It's a good lesson in how petty suburban prejudices can be energised and leveraged at the ballot box by an appeal to irrational fears.
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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 337786 of 756373
Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/12/2007 5:41 PM
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<<Given that most of you reactionaries seem to be such experts on the unspeakable horrors of what it is like to be under the thumb of Muslims, I'd like to actually know where your considerable PERSONAL (not FoxNews, not WorldNetDaily, not Newsmax gleaned) knowledge of the situation comes from.
>>


Those who study history are familiar with the fact that Islam advanced from Arabia through Christian North Africa into Spain and the heart of France before being defeated at the Battle of Tours in France and withdrawing to occupy Spain and Portugal for 700 years. Then the Ottoman Turks took control of The Christian Middle East, Bosnia, Greece, Serbia and the Byzantine Empire, only being stopped at the gates of Vienna twice.

A third great invasion under the Mongols captured Russia, half of Hungary and other portions of Eastern Europe for control by Moslems.

The discerning may realize that this impulse to control hasn't changed, and reasonable people may be concerned that the next great invasion, through immigration and fecundity is already well advanced in several European countries.


You may wish to ignore the risks. I do not.

At present, I see efforts for Sharia law to undermine anti discrimination laws in my home town of Seattle. Islamists have succesfully lobbied for men to be excluded from public swimming pools so that Moslem women can use the pools during special sessions with men excluded from participation. While you would no doubt consider this trivial, it's just the beginning of trends easily seen in Europe in which self confident Moslem's demand that their social and legal customs be recognized and imposed on western societies.

There are plenty of dots for me to connect, thank you.



Seattle Pioneer

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Author: Gingko100 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 337787 of 756373
Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/12/2007 5:54 PM
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I think that while there are demographics and historical concerns that warrant valid discussion, much of this is xenophobia pure and simple. It's an old old fear. Goes back to the crusades.

I have many Muslim friends from Pakistan and India. They are normal every day kind of people. They pay their mortages, raise their kids and watch both Bollywood melodrama and US sitcoms. I have gone to their houses and they have been to mine. We do the kids of things friends and colleagues do. I don't spend my time viewing them with suspicion.

My sister-in-law is a French Muslim (from Algeria) and she and her family get along just fine with mine. Her brother has often been discriminated against due to his background, but it just makes him work twice as hard to prove ignorant people wrong. He's a successful computer consultant who live in the Paris suburbs (those same suburbs people keep wringing their hands about).

Having equal and balanced laws is a good thing (I'm not one for preferences of any kind). Having religious freedom is even better. Acceptance of other cultures and religions comes with an open society. Yes, this sometimes creates problems, but a mature society will deal with that without demonizing whole sections of its populace.

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Author: JDCRex Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 337793 of 756373
Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/12/2007 6:14 PM
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Islamists have succesfully lobbied for men to be excluded from public swimming pools so that Moslem women can use the pools during special sessions with men excluded from participation.

As I've told you in another post, so have Orthodox Jews. Your knickers in a knot about that as well?

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Author: fleg9bo Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 337794 of 756373
Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/12/2007 6:27 PM
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Islamists have succesfully lobbied for men to be excluded from public swimming pools so that Moslem women can use the pools during special sessions with men excluded from participation.

Why isn't the ACLU up in arms over this blatant endorsement by government of a religion's tenets? Oh, I forgot--it's not Christianity.

--fleg

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Author: ascenzm Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 337799 of 756373
Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/12/2007 7:28 PM
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Those who study history are familiar with the fact that Islam advanced from Arabia through Christian North Africa into Spain and the heart of France before being defeated at the Battle of Tours in France and withdrawing to occupy Spain and Portugal for 700 years. Then the Ottoman Turks took control of The Christian Middle East, Bosnia, Greece, Serbia and the Byzantine Empire, only being stopped at the gates of Vienna twice.

A third great invasion under the Mongols captured Russia, half of Hungary and other portions of Eastern Europe for control by Moslems.

The discerning may realize that this impulse to control hasn't changed, and reasonable people may be concerned that the next great invasion, through immigration and fecundity is already well advanced in several European countries.


You may wish to ignore the risks. I do not.

Seattle Pioneer


JCDRex,

Seattle's response to your post was pretty good so I thought I'd reference it and ask what portion of the history that he references do you refute as a lie? The information about the Muslim problems that I read from current day Europe is not being provided by Fox (or by your definition Faux) news.

Mike



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Author: AOLFoolman100 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 337802 of 756373
Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/12/2007 8:14 PM
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Do you (shock, horror) have any interaction with any? Do you live in close proximity to any? Do you work with any?


Well JDRex, oh, our Aussie Holy-Multicultural-One-on-High-Upon-a-Very High-Pedestal, I don't go skinny-dipping with male Muslims in the absence of hot women at a public swimming pool. That's just too strange even for someone as open-minded as I am. I do male bond in sports, camping trips, and occasionally bare-naked, group butt-paddling while drunk...but that's as far as I'll go.

But I must say, while living in NYC a couple of years ago, I did frequent this one shawarma sandwich spot in Greenwich Village. Great food !! I frequented this place so much that I became a good buddy with this shawarma meat slicer named Ahbooo MoooooHaammid. Yes, if you were wondering, that is how he spelled his name (yes, I do use the spell-checker). The guy was an Islamic to the max.

Ahbooo made our nightly Friday/Saturday night Shawarma Sandwiches as we staggered home from a night of bar hopping.

We were all usually friendly, joking around and such. But occasionally, he gave us static and grief everytime Bush made a speech or launched an offensive of some sort in Iraq or Ahfghanistan.

He would be like: Your monkey Bushy Boy thinks he's tough !!

I was like, (puffing out my chest and tilting my head up:) Yeah, tougher than chicken-hawk Osama-hide-his-ass-in-a-cave-Bin-Ladin to avoid cruise missle up the buttocks.

He would slumped and was like: Just this time...just this time, you win the argument!!.


After that, I think he began a Holy Culinary Jihad against me - in stealth!! He began putting some sort of a weird Jihaddy sauce in my sandwiches....it tasted really funny. He would start the sandwich, walk around the corner, and then 3 minutes later, come back with a complete sandwich!!

After about 5-10 times of tasting this Jihaddy Sauce in my sandwich, I quit going to him and started going to Korean Town for my midnight snack.

JDRex, I know being located in the Southern Hemisphere in the land of alligator wresting Steve Erwin land and a huge desert full of kangaroos does give you special, privileged claims to being a Islamic insider......but please...please, do not negate my close ties to the Islamic people. I know them intimately.




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Author: JDCRex Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 337803 of 756373
Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/12/2007 8:16 PM
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Seattle's response to your post was pretty good so I thought I'd reference it and ask what portion of the history that he references do you refute as a lie?

What part of it is even vaguely relevant?

Are you saying that because there was a Saladin and a Suleyman that I should live in mortal terror of the Muslims who live down the road from me?

Shriek! Gasp! The Ottomans are on the march again! First the swimming pools, next THE WORLD!

Really, grow up and stop wetting the bed!

As for Europe, the greatest amount of the problems there are caused by one of the oldest sources of instability extant: economics. Religion is very much a secondary or tertiary driver.

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Author: JDCRex Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 337804 of 756373
Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/12/2007 8:23 PM
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JDRex, I know being located in the Southern Hemisphere in the land of alligator wresting Steve Erwin land and a huge desert full of kangaroos does give you special, privileged claims to being a Islamic insider......but please...please, do not negate my close ties to the Islamic people. I know them intimately.

Uh... just a little tip. Stick to reactionary screeds. Attempts at humour should only be made by those who are capable of being even remotely funny rather than simply pathetic.

As for the rest, as I have said elsewhere, Australia is vastly an urban nation, notwithstanding the popular notion of a land of Steve Irwins. Most Australians live in cities that are much larger than the average American's. And the suburb I live in has quite a large Muslim population. Should I be wetting the bed over it like you obviously are?



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Author: AOLFoolman100 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 337807 of 756373
Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/12/2007 8:45 PM
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JDRex, is this how you are in "real life" ?? Do you have any friends?


An anthoritarian and autocratic person, those who disagree with you are "dumb" and "backwards", lacking in any humor, someone who screams at the opposition, FILLED WITH CAPITAL LETTERs AND EXCLAMATION POINTS!!! Chock full of insults and belittling against those who don't agree with you....

You are certainly made in the mode of a Dictator - the characteristics of your personality certainty fits the description. Everytime I read your posts, I imagine World War II films of Adolph Hitler yelling, screaming and slamming the podium as he addresses the Nazis.

Sometimes, you made need to look in the mirror and reconsider....

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Author: JDCRex Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 337811 of 756373
Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/12/2007 9:22 PM
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Chock full of insults and belittling against those who don't agree with you...

Oh, right. As opposed to your unflinching evenhandedness. You simply never insult and belittle, do you?

Everytime I read your posts, I imagine World War II films of Adolph Hitler yelling, screaming and slamming the podium as he addresses the Nazis

That's funny. When I read your posts, I imagine the willing dupes who voted for his xenophobic right wing party, and realise how little has changed when it comes to some people.

Sometimes, you made need to look in the mirror and reconsider....

Yeah, you don't say!

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Author: AOLFoolman100 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 337813 of 756373
Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/12/2007 9:29 PM
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Damn, JDREx you are one childish, screaming monster.

Get a hold of yourself.

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Author: Sneakpuff Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 337816 of 756373
Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/12/2007 10:12 PM
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Damn, JDREx you are one childish, screaming monster.

Get a hold of yourself.


Once you get that hold,,,,yank hard!!!!

ES


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Author: ariechert Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 337820 of 756373
Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/12/2007 10:25 PM
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Honestly. Some of you sound so demented that it's literally frightening. But thanks at least for providing a glimpse into the moral and logical depravity of the obsessed right wing mind. It's a good lesson in how petty suburban prejudices can be energised and leveraged at the ballot box by an appeal to irrational fears. - JDCRex
................................................

The whole purpose of life is to experience duality and separation. Religion is just another kind of duality for us to experience. The more emotional the response the more powerful and long lasting the memory it creates.

I'm just doing my part to increase the level of duality and separation in the world.

That's the way God planned it.

Sir Arthur, "hotline to God!


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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 337847 of 756373
Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/13/2007 1:23 AM
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<<Islamists have succesfully lobbied for men to be excluded from public swimming pools so that Moslem women can use the pools during special sessions with men excluded from participation.

As I've told you in another post, so have Orthodox Jews. Your knickers in a knot about that as well? >>



Of course.



Seattle Pioneer

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Author: OldOne Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 337851 of 756373
Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/13/2007 1:49 AM
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The official muslim strategy is to keep their head slow until immigration and their high birth rates have made them a "significant" minority. Then the whole attitude changes and the demands begin.

I like the old western way of handling this problem -- step on a scorpion when he is small and he doesn't ever get big.

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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 337852 of 756373
Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/13/2007 1:55 AM
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<<I like the old western way of handling this problem -- step on a scorpion when he is small and he doesn't ever get big.
>>



I imagine that smart people also don't invite scorpions into their beds.




Seattle Pioneer

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Author: TheBreeze Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 337859 of 756373
Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/13/2007 6:18 AM
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Given that most of you reactionaries seem to be such experts on the unspeakable horrors of what it is like to be under the thumb of Muslims, I'd like to actually know where your considerable PERSONAL (not FoxNews, not WorldNetDaily, not Newsmax gleaned) knowledge of the situation comes from.

A friend's dad was a boy in Serbia during WWII when the war caused enough upheaval so that the Muslims controlled everything. He was converted to Islam at rifle point (other choice: be shot). Since his family farmed, he was forced to adhere to the one month Ramadan fast--in August, while working in the fields, he was allowed no water or food from sunup to sundown.

At least he wasn't forced to see a 10 Commandments plaque on government property.

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Author: TheBreeze Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 337860 of 756373
Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/13/2007 6:25 AM
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Do you (shock, horror) have any interaction with any?...Honestly. Some of you sound so demented that it's literally frightening. But thanks at least for providing a glimpse into the moral and logical depravity of the obsessed right wing mind.

Example #2: I got to see and meet many people in Africa when I was on a mission trip there. During a terrorist incursion, the terrorists would cut off a person's arm or leg. They knew to cut at the part of the joint that made it impossible to fit someone with an artificial limb. The terrorists weren't too selective in who they harmed this way, in that they wanted to terrorize villages rather than punish an actual offense. I met a nurse who had treated women abused in ways that wouldn't even occur so most people reading these boards, and I won't repeat them here. She did tell me that sometimes a family was burned inside their own home.

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Author: Anibaldo Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 337862 of 756373
Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/13/2007 7:14 AM
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Those who study history are familiar with the fact that Islam...

...a third great invasion under the Mongols captured Russia, half of Hungary and other portions of Eastern Europe for control by Moslems.


That's quite some stretch.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_invasion_of_Rus

Abe

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Author: ascenzm Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 337864 of 756373
Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/13/2007 7:51 AM
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Example #2: I got to see and meet many people in Africa when I was on a mission trip there. During a terrorist incursion, the terrorists would cut off a person's arm or leg. They knew to cut at the part of the joint that made it impossible to fit someone with an artificial limb. The terrorists weren't too selective in who they harmed this way, in that they wanted to terrorize villages rather than punish an actual offense. I met a nurse who had treated women abused in ways that wouldn't even occur so most people reading these boards, and I won't repeat them here. She did tell me that sometimes a family was burned inside their own home.

TheBreeze


Maybe some of the left-leaning Muslim apologists need to join you on your next mission trip to Africa so they can view the effects of the Religion of Peace up close. The funny thing is that many black Americans have chosen to convert to Islam when Muslims are the ones who sold the black Americans' ancestors to the Europeans and Americans as slaves.

Mike

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Author: JDCRex Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 337865 of 756373
Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/13/2007 7:52 AM
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Example #2: I got to see and meet many people in Africa when I was on a mission trip there. During a terrorist incursion, the terrorists would cut off a person's arm or leg.

You think that sort of stuff is limited to Muslims in post-colonial Africa!?

Ever heard of Angola? Rwanda?

Africa is made up mainly of countries that have descended into kleptocratic despotism as the power vacuums of the 20th century was filled with warlords and charismatic dictators. Brutal terrorism cuts across all religions there.

Go look up the majority religion in Rwanda. Here's a hint: it isn't Islam.

Also, look up Joseph Kony, at large in Uganda. See what Lord he serves in his child-soldiered Lord's Resistance Army. Another hint: it's not Allah.

The point is that you are bringing up examples from a part of the world that is endemically unstable. I'm trying to ascertain why the bedwetters here want me to be wary of the Muslims in my suburban Australian neighbourhood. By the logic of "well, they're bad overseas" I should be terrified of the Catholics going to the church a few doors down from me (see Rwanda for the reason why).

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Author: JDCRex Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 337866 of 756373
Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/13/2007 7:53 AM
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Maybe some of the left-leaning Muslim apologists need to join you on your next mission trip to Africa so they can view the effects of the Religion of Peace up close.

Do you know what the majority religion in Rwanda is?

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Author: JDCRex Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 337867 of 756373
Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/13/2007 7:57 AM
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Damn, JDREx you are one childish, screaming monster.

Heh. And YOU'RE the one moaning about insults.

Yes, what a childish, screaming monster I am. I don't want forced expulsions based on race and religion. How childish. How screaming. How monstruous.

You and your fellow wingnut travellers are, on the other hand, the very picture of seasoned equanimity. All you want is racial and religious discrimination. How reasonable of you!


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Author: OldOne Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 337871 of 756373
Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/13/2007 8:33 AM
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I don't want forced expulsions based on race and religion.

The real problem with the US is that our constitution forbids this, so you won't see them.

By the time we wake up to the muslim threat, they will be too many to ammend the constitution so we can throw them out.

Arafat used to say that his greatest weapon was the womb of the arab woman.

Too see how real the threat is, look at France, Holland, and the UK. The French have now made it illegal for non-journalists to film "disturbances" because they want to hide the extent of muslim violence. Hundreds of cars a burned every weekend. In Holland, you can be killed for making a film. In the UK, muslims are demanding sharia law in their areas and may well get it.

OK, want something a little closer to home, they are demanding sharia in Canada...

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Author: lowstudent Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 337879 of 756373
Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/13/2007 9:09 AM
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Honestly. Some of you sound so demented that it's literally frightening.
_____________

I guess that works out well, know you know how the rest of fooldom feels.


It's a good lesson in how petty suburban prejudices can be energised and leveraged at the ballot box by an appeal to irrational fears.


This from a liberla Democrat during the Bush range. I repeate your entire species has to be vampire like, there is now way you can repeat this type of tripe and own a mirror.

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Author: Gingko100 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 337886 of 756373
Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/13/2007 10:04 AM
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Regarding the comments about Bosnia and Africa: This type of depravity can happen in every religion and culture at various times. It is sick, unnacceptable and should be fought against.

However, what is going on there does NOT mean that my Bangladeshi buddies, Pakistani work colleagues or my sister-in-law are some kind of conspiratorial terrorists. Distinctions can and should be made. You can't lump all Muslims together into some vast group that should be feared and discriminated against.

That said, I know many people will do so anyhow.



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Author: lowstudent Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 337887 of 756373
Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/13/2007 10:08 AM
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Regarding the comments about Bosnia and Africa: This type of depravity can happen in every religion and culture at various times. It is sick, unnacceptable and should be fought against.

________________________

Frankly, were this happening in any other religion at THIS TIME, we would be seeing the same comments regarding that religion. It isn't so that is used to simply isn't salient IMO.

We do have to watch Muslims extra carefully. I wish the decent Muslims would just suck it up and deal with it, knowing these ne'er do wells were hiding in their community and therefeore their community is unfortunately the place that has to be looked at. Does that stink, yes, but they need to get onboard and help everyone else solve the problem.

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Author: arrete Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 337888 of 756373
Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/13/2007 10:19 AM
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We do have to watch Muslims extra carefully. I wish the decent Muslims would just suck it up and deal with it, knowing these ne'er do wells were hiding in their community and therefore their community is unfortunately the place that has to be looked at. Does that stink, yes, but they need to get onboard and help everyone else solve the problem.
---------------

I think the getting on board to solve the problem is the biggie. Mostly what I hear is a lot of silence. No condemnation (or very little) for the atrocious acts. If Muslims want to be treated with respect, they need to at least attempt to reign in the crazies that are destroying the Muslim reputation in the eyes of the non-Muslim world.

arrete

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Author: lowstudent Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 337889 of 756373
Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/13/2007 10:29 AM
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I think the getting on board to solve the problem is the biggie.
_____________

I very much see it the same way, it may be just perception, but that is a large part of the problem.

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Author: buzman Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 337890 of 756373
Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/13/2007 10:32 AM
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While I believe 99.4444% of the Muslims are peace-loving, why don't they condemn the radicals?

Ooops, I should say the same about Christianity.

buzman

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Author: ziggy29 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 337892 of 756373
Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/13/2007 10:43 AM
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>> While I believe 99.4444% of the Muslims are peace-loving, why don't they condemn the radicals?

Ooops, I should say the same about Christianity.
<<

How typical and predictable of you, buz.

First of all, the percentages of peace-loving folks are probably different. I'm not sure the percentage of Muslims who are not modern-day "jihadis" is as high as the percentage of Christians who are not violent crusaders (in THIS day and age, not centuries ago).

Second of all, with the exception of an extraordinarily small group of kooks who do things like shoot abortion doctors, The "Christians" who give Christians a bad name aren't generally engaging in terrorism. Most of the time their worst sins are being too judgmental and trying to enforce their views on others who don't want them. Hardly the same in terms of severity, although it is still regrettable.

Still, one point here *is* a fair one: Christians who don't want to be lumped in with Pat Robertson or Fred Phelps need to repudiate them and avoid association with them just as peaceful Muslims need to distance themselves from the jihadis.

But trying to equate the severity and frequency of the violent behavior in the name of religion is so absurd as to be laughable. I'd expect nothing less in this case, though, considering the source.

#29

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Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/13/2007 10:43 AM
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While I believe 99.4444% of the Muslims are peace-loving, why don't they condemn the radicals?

Ooops, I should say the same about Christianity.

_______________________

Well I think it is pretty obvious you are totally wrong about the first number. That your views are so out of the pak puts everything you say in a rather off the wall context. Just what would Muslims have to do to get your attention?

It is awe inspiring what a liberal with an agenda is willing to say regardless of how it reinforces their lack of any crediibiliy.

Second, were you to look even a little you would find a lot of Chiristian condemnation of the last problem of Christian violence say at abortion clinics. Is there a specific problem you are talking about. Last lib I knew making this case was using some trumped up lieas about a group in Africa that was fairly easy to rebut.

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Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/13/2007 10:48 AM
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>> Still, one point here *is* a fair one: Christians who don't want to be lumped in with Pat Robertson or Fred Phelps need to repudiate them and avoid association with them just as peaceful Muslims need to distance themselves from the jihadis. <<

One more point here. You don't see any semi-mainstream Christian organizations applauding violence on abortion clinics or doctors. You see semi-mainstream organizations like CAIR refusing to condemn violence and denounce any effort to fight terror as anti-Muslim, though.

When CAIR stops coddling terrorists, denounces all jihadi violence and supports constitutional efforts to fight terror to the full extent of the law, we'll talk again.

#29

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Author: Jim2B Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 337898 of 756373
Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/13/2007 10:52 AM
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One more point here. You don't see any semi-mainstream Christian organizations applauding violence on abortion clinics or doctors. You see semi-mainstream organizations like CAIR refusing to condemn violence and denounce any effort to fight terror as anti-Muslim, though.

I've seen many interviews with moderate muslims who at an abstract level repudiate the violence but then in the very same breath say that they understand it and applaud the terrorists goals.

That's something I haven't seen main stream christians do regarding abortion clinic bombings.

Jim

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Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/13/2007 11:11 AM
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I've seen many interviews with moderate muslims who at an abstract level repudiate the violence but then in the very same breath say that they understand it and applaud the terrorists goals.

_________________________

Jim, this is the Gorilla in the room.

For all the blather of comparing Islam to any other religion the above stands out, and only what I believe are the most brainwashed can ignore it. It is not that they all are violent, but that the violenece is a part of their religion they can not deny and do condone.

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Author: buzman Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 337906 of 756373
Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/13/2007 11:19 AM
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Religious fanaticism (either Christian or Islamic) is simply misguided.



It bothers me deeply that my religion has been hijacked by fanatics. For political gain...

buzman

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Author: CathCoy Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 337908 of 756373
Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/13/2007 11:19 AM
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Nazi Germany, oh, around 1938...

Given that most of you reactionaries seem to be such experts on the unspeakable horrors of what it is like to be under the thumb of the Third Reich, I'd like to actually know where your considerable PERSONAL (not FoxNews, not WorldNetDaily, not Newsmax gleaned) knowledge of the situation comes from.

Do you (shock, horror) have any interaction with any Nazis? Do you live in close proximity to any Nazis? Do you work with any Nazis?

Just wondering why so many of you seem to be wetting your beds. I must be missing the devious signs of the Thousand Year Reign or the Final Solution popping up that would have me running around like a headless chicken screeching for expulsions.

Honestly. Some of you sound so demented that it's literally frightening. But thanks at least for providing a glimpse into the moral and logical depravity of the obsessed right wing mind. It's a good lesson in how petty suburban prejudices can be energised and leveraged at the ballot box by an appeal to irrational fears.


The Nazi Connection to Islamic Terrorism: Adolf Hitler and Haj Amin al-Husseini
http://www.amazon.com/Nazi-Connection-Islamic-Terrorism-al-Husseini/dp/0595289444

Haj Amin al-Husseini represented the opposite of the noble Emir Faisal Ibn Husein, the enlightened Arab King of Hejaz who had cordial relations with Chaim Weizmann and wanted to achieve a peaceful Middle East with cooperation between Jew and Arab.

Unfortunately Al-Husseini's ideology of hatred won out. As Grand Mufti of Jerusalem he spearheaded the imperialistic or utopian strain of Islam that has turned into a modern hydra. In 1920 he organised the murder of Jews who were praying at the Wailing Wall, and he never looked back. Throughout the rest of his time in Palestine he furthered his murderous designs because of the British policy of appeasement, [now known as political correctness] with further campaigns in 1929 and from 1936.

In the 1930s Al-Husseini became a proponent of Hitler, eventually settling in Berlin where he encouraged the annihilation of European Jews and planned to become the leader of the Arab world in expectation of an Axis victory. He unceasingly promoted the Holocaust and Nazism amongst the Arabs. This strain of Nazism was a blend of National Socialism and fundamentalist Islam that would make deep inroads into the Arab world.

After the war Al-Husseini fled to Cairo where he was instrumental in accommodating fleeing Nazis and organising the destruction of Israel. The hatred of Israel now took on a Leftist flavour as the Soviet Union became the champion of the Arab cause. Arab leaders like Gamal Abdel Nasser, Saddam Hussein and Yasser Arafat were all influenced by his hateful ideas.

Al-Husseini did not only target Jews, but also moderate Arabs and the free West in general. Nazism was the spiritual and physical bridge by which Islamic extremism became prominent in the Arab world. He introduced the demented belief that utopia could be achieved on earth by the destruction of Israel and the annihilation of the Jews.

This malevolent Islamo-Fascism is the cause of much of the misery in the Arab world today and is at the root of the hatred of non-Muslims, particularly the United States and Israel. In this, the extremists are assisted by international leftists [under the guise of political correctness]. The Western democracies are now tasting the fruit of a decades long policy of appeasement towards this odious movement and its demonic founder.

But there is still a chance that the legacy of Emir Faisal might prevail, although recent developments in France and Europe as a whole do not look promising. Al-Husseini was without doubt one of the most evil personalities of the 20th century as meticulously documented in this revealing book.

Plenty of black and white photographs enhance the text, illustrating Al-Husseini's meetings with Nazi and Arab leaders, and of Bosnian Muslim brigades in World War II.

There are nine indices with documentary evidence of the historical narrative. Appendix A is the Balfour Declaration of 1917, B provides excerpts of the correspondence of King Faisal, C is the Weizmann-Faisal Agreement of 1919, D provides a dialogue between Lord Peel and Husseini from the Palestine Royal Commission Report.

Appendix E gives the minutes of a meeting between Hitler and Al-Husseini, F is an excerpt from the diary of Al-Husseini on his meeting with Hitler, G is a letter in which he asks the Hungarian government to send 1000 Jews to their death in Poland instead of allowing them to escape to Israel, H is his address to Arab-Americans and I is the Palestine National Covenant that denies the right of Israel to exist.

***

Nazis? Islamists? Same/same.





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Author: 2828 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 337909 of 756373
Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/13/2007 11:21 AM
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It bothers me deeply that my religion has been hijacked by fanatics. For political gain...

buzman
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What religion is that, Global Warming?

2828

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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 337914 of 756373
Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/13/2007 11:35 AM
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<<Those who study history are familiar with the fact that Islam...

...a third great invasion under the Mongols captured Russia, half of Hungary and other portions of Eastern Europe for control by Moslems.

That's quite some stretch.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_invasion_of_Rus

Abe
>>



Well, here's a portion of the Wikipedia article you cited as a reference:


<<<<The vast Mongol hordes of some 150,000 mounted archers, commanded by Batu Khan and Subutai, crossed the Volga River and invaded Volga Bulgaria in the autumn of 1236. It took them a year to extinguish the resistance of there of the Volga Bulgarians, the Kypchaks and the Alani.

In November 1237, Batu Khan sent his envoys to the court of Yuri II of Vladimir and demanded his submission. A month later, the hordes besieged Ryazan. After six days of the bloodiest battle, this capital was totally annihilated, never to be restored. Alarmed by the news, Yuri II sent his sons to detain the invaders, but they were soundly defeated. Having burnt down Kolomna and Moscow, the horde laid siege to Vladimir on February 4, 1238. Three days later, the capital of Vladimir-Suzdal was taken and burnt to the ground. The royal family perished in the fire, while the grand prince hastily retreated northward. Crossing the Volga, he mustered a new army, which was totally exterminated by the Mongols in the Battle of the Sit River on March 4.

Thereupon Batu Khan divided his army into smaller units, which ransacked fourteen cities of modern-day Russia: Rostov, Uglich, Yaroslavl, Kostroma, Kashin, Ksnyatin, Gorodets, Galich, Pereslavl-Zalessky, Yuriev-Polsky, Dmitrov, Volokolamsk, Tver, and Torzhok. The most difficult to take was the small town of Kozelsk, whose boy-prince Titus and inhabitants resisted the Mongols for seven weeks. As the story goes, at the news of the Mongol approach, the whole town of Kitezh with all its inhabitants was submerged into a lake, where, as legend has it, it may be seen to this day. The only major cities to escape destruction were Novgorod and Pskov. Refugees from southern Rus' gravitated mostly to the northeast, in the forest region with poor soils between the northern Volga and Oka Rivers.

In the summer of 1238, Batu Khan devastated the Crimea and pacified Mordovia. In the winter of 1239, he sacked Chernigov and Pereyaslav. After many days of siege, the horde stormed Kiev in December 1240. Despite fierce resistance of Danylo of Halych, Batu Khan managed to take two of his principal cities, Halych and Volodymyr-Volynskyi. The Mongols then resolved to "reach the ultimate sea", where they could proceed no further, and invaded Hungary and Poland.

>>






I don't see that I exaggerated a thing.





Seattle Pioneer










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Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/13/2007 11:40 AM
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I think the getting on board to solve the problem is the biggie. Mostly what I hear is a lot of silence. No condemnation (or very little) for the atrocious acts. If Muslims want to be treated with respect, they need to at least attempt to reign in the crazies that are destroying the Muslim reputation in the eyes of the non-Muslim world.
- arrete

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It ain't going to happen because that's what their Holy Book, The Koran, prescribes. The crazies are actually the ones who are doing what the Koran clearly states one is supposed to do if one wants to be a good Muslim.

Art

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Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/13/2007 11:42 AM
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While I believe 99.4444% of the Muslims are peace-loving, why don't they condemn the radicals?

Ooops, I should say the same about Christianity. <<

How typical and predictable of you, buz. (ziggy)

....................................................

The problem is between what the New Testament teaches and what the Koran teaches. They are not interchangeable and are very different religions.

Art

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Author: Gingko100 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 337919 of 756373
Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/13/2007 11:43 AM
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Cath: Use your own words if you have a point to make. Do not modify mine and pretend I said things I didn't. And yes, my family is deeply familiar with the Holocaust thank you very much.

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Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/13/2007 11:51 AM
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I'd consider myself a right thinking conservative.I have a Muslim family that lives right around the corner from me.A very nice family who I consider as good neighbors.The father is active in the muslim community.He had a rough time awhile ago when he was getting threatening letters.

All of his neighbors (also mainly conservative) were appalled by the letters and showed support for the family.Just because we're conservative doesn't mean we're whacko's who oppose interacting with someone (good citizens)that is different from us.

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Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/13/2007 11:56 AM
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One more point here. You don't see any semi-mainstream Christian organizations applauding violence on abortion clinics or doctors. You see semi-mainstream organizations like CAIR refusing to condemn violence and denounce any effort to fight terror as anti-Muslim, though.

When CAIR stops coddling terrorists, denounces all jihadi violence and supports constitutional efforts to fight terror to the full extent of the law, we'll talk again. #29

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It's because of the difference between what the two holy books teach. Not interchangeable.

Art


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Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/13/2007 12:04 PM
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Just what would Muslims have to do to get your attention?

lowstudent


From what I observe many people who profess a left leaning political persuasion appear to have a very low survival instinct (they must feel that most people are peaceful). In his case, I'd think his attention might be obtained only when a jihadist is swinging a scimitar towards his neck or the neck of a loved one. <g>

Mike

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Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/13/2007 12:10 PM
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From what I observe many people who profess a left leaning political persuasion appear to have a very low survival instinct (they must feel that most people are peaceful). In his case, I'd think his attention might be obtained only when a jihadist is swinging a scimitar towards his neck or the neck of a loved one. <g> - Mike
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I consider myself to be politically rather "left of center", and I have no illusions about what Islam and The Koran teach. Jihadist are good Muslims and doing what their holy book teaches.

Arthur

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Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/13/2007 12:16 PM
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Use your own words if you have a point to make. Do not modify mine and pretend I said things I didn't.

You are Everyman in this age of political correctness.


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Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/13/2007 12:18 PM
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I consider myself to be politically rather "left of center", and I have no illusions about what Islam and The Koran teach. Jihadist are good Muslims and doing what their holy book teaches.

Arthur

The English translations of the Koran and the other Muslim religious tracts that I've examined are pretty clear in stating what is required to be a good Muslim. For starters, a good Muslim cannot be friends with an infidel. If a Muslim says that they're your friend they're either lying to deceive you (assuming you're not a Muslim of course) or they are not a true Muslim (and are pretty brave by the way). True Muslims see nothing wrong with lying to deceive infidels.

Mike


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Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/13/2007 12:58 PM
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It bothers me deeply that my religion has been hijacked by fanatics. For political gain...

buzman
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What religion is that, Global Warming?

2828
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I generally worship every Sunday but during the summer I skip sometimes because the beach is sooo nice.

They passed out the Christian Coalition (vote Republican) handouts once, but after Ted Haggard made the news they were not as popular.

2828, your religion would be...Christo-fascism?

buzman



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Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/13/2007 1:21 PM
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I don't see that I exaggerated a thing.





Seattle Pioneer

_______________


As usual, you did not get the point. From the article I linked to:

In religious matters they were extremely tolerant. When they first appeared in Europe, they were Shamanists, and as such they had naturally no religious fanaticism; but even when they adopted Islam they remained as tolerant as before, and the khan of the Golden Horde, who first became a Muslim, allowed the Russians to found a Christian bishopric in his capital. Nogai Khan, half a century later, married a daughter of the Byzantine emperor, and gave his own daughter in marriage to a Russian prince, Theodor the Black. Some modern Russian historians (most notably, Lev Gumilev) even postulate there was no invasion at all. According to them, the Russian princes concluded a defensive alliance with the Horde in order to repel attacks of the fanatical Teutonic Knights, which posed a much greater threat to Russian religion and culture.


Never mind.

Abe



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Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/13/2007 1:39 PM
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You can't lump all Muslims together into some vast group that should be feared and discriminated against.

That said, I know many people will do so anyhow.
_________________________________________________

Keeping a closer eye on a given community whne that is where you know the problem exists and simultaneously keeping close safeguards on that closer eye is just sanity.

I too have friends across many ethnic and religious lines as well as trusted co-workers. Folks I would trust implicitly on any issue. It is still the height of ignorance to not keep a closer eye on the Muslim community. Plus it is only with the placid acceptance of a large part of the Muslim community that the dark side of Islam can find hiding places. Until that community faces up to this we as a nation have problems, and they as a community need to be watched more carefullly than others.

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Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/13/2007 1:55 PM
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Keeping a closer eye on a given community whne that is where you know the problem exists and simultaneously keeping close safeguards on that closer eye is just sanity.

The case of the Mike Hawash in Portland is instructive. He was the American dream--an immigrant who got educated here, had a good job at Intel, wife & kids, house in the burbs, the whole nine yards. But he began getting closer to fundamentalist Islam, gave money to "charities" that supported terrorism, and finally ended up going to China to try to enter Afghanistan to fight with the Taliban against American forces.

Nobody knew. His co-workers and friends were outraged and publicly accused the gummint of making it up--their protests went on for some time. But it was true.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Hawash

According to the article, "The most significant evidence against Hawash and the Portland Seven was gathered (under provisions from the USA Patriot Act) from emails the men had sent each other."

One of the other six was recorded saying he was scouting Jewish schools as potential targets for a terror attack.

There have been similar cases around the country.

--fleg, supporter of the Patriot Act

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Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/13/2007 2:17 PM
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2828, your religion would be...Christo-fascism?

buzman
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm catholic, but i never go to church. I had to do all the religious stuff, church, confirmation, CCD classes, communion, and all that when i was young, i was forced at wooden spoon point. As soon as i got out of the house i never looked back, i hated church, to me it was all the same stuff about the Lamb Of GardenBunny, and the kneeling, and the shaking hands, and the hand gestures, the only original content each week is the homily <sp>, and even then it was all endless droning from a guy not getting laid to me. In my high school years i figured out a trick, my parents would make me go to church so i told them i'd go at a different time and i'd walk really, really slow (we lived walking distance from a church), then i'd pop in the door of the church, steal the weekly bulletin as proof and take a walk into town. In conclusion, Christo-fascist, hardly, Monte Christo, good sandwich.

2828

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Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/13/2007 2:40 PM
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Cath: I fail to see how insulting me changes the fact that you misquoted me.

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Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/13/2007 2:57 PM
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Gingko100 said: I fail to see how insulting me changes the fact that you misquoted me.

But you are Everyman, and what's insulting about that? You feel like most people do: that Islam is not really a threat (I hope, I hope, I hope) and that all we have to do is leave them alone. Again, what's insulting about that?

All your comments can be put in the context of how most people responded to the growing (and hideously realized) threat of Nazism. All we're seeing is history repeating itself, yet you--and most people--fail to see it.


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Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/13/2007 3:19 PM
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I'm catholic, but i never go to church. I had to do all the religious stuff, church, confirmation, CCD classes, communion, and all that when i was young, i was forced at wooden spoon point. As soon as i got out of the house i never looked back, i hated church, to me it was all the same stuff about the Lamb Of GardenBunny, and the kneeling, and the shaking hands, and the hand gestures, the only original content each week is the homily <sp>, and even then it was all endless droning from a guy not getting laid to me. In my high school years i figured out a trick, my parents would make me go to church so i told them i'd go at a different time and i'd walk really, really slow (we lived walking distance from a church), then i'd pop in the door of the church, steal the weekly bulletin as proof and take a walk into town.

2828


Ah, your post brings back childhood memories. I hated going to CCD classes (kids who went to Catholic schools didn't have to do CCD). I'm old enough to remember masses before the hand shaking, but with the priests facing away from the pews speaking unintelligible Latin and spreading a bunch of incense that made me sneeze. I also remember staring at the faces of dead animals (mink stoles) perched on elderly women's shoulders who were seated in front of me when I attended mass as a kid.

Mike

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Author: Gingko100 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 337956 of 756373
Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/13/2007 3:48 PM
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Cath: One of my points was that I cannot and will not generalize what are valid demographic and political concerns (I did say that) to every Muslim individual.

I'm not going to worry my neice will go all jihadi on me while we are playing gin rummy. Not do I believe that my Bangladashi friends (some of whom fled that country during the war for independence) are plotting secretly to overthrow this country. My Muslim friends are scientists, inventors, teachers, and people who tangibly contribute to the GOOD of this country economically and otherwise. They are good citizens, and make this country smarter and stronger. The fact that they are Muslim does not make them less so.




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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 337957 of 756373
Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/13/2007 3:55 PM
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<<Cath: One of my points was that I cannot and will not generalize what are valid demographic and political concerns (I did say that) to every Muslim individual.

I'm not going to worry my neice will go all jihadi on me while we are playing gin rummy. Not do I believe that my Bangladashi friends (some of whom fled that country during the war for independence) are plotting secretly to overthrow this country. My Muslim friends are scientists, inventors, teachers, and people who tangibly contribute to the GOOD of this country economically and otherwise. They are good citizens, and make this country smarter and stronger. The fact that they are Muslim does not make them less so.

>>


Personally, my preferred solution is to just quit admitting immigrants to the United States at all. We just don't need the continued very rapid rise in population that current practices will cause.


That solution involves no need to discriminate at all.





Seattle Pioneer

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Author: fleg9bo Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 337963 of 756373
Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/13/2007 4:30 PM
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I'm catholic, but i never go to church.

How many laps do you have to run to be a lapsed Catholic?

I'm Jewish but by ancestry only--haven't been to a synagogue since my bar-mitzvah, which wouldn't have even happened if my parents hadn't forced me. Did I ever hate Hebrew school! For those who don't know, you have to go after regular school for three or four years leading up to your 13th birthday, twice a week plus Saturday morning stuff. They theoretically teach you enough Hebrew to know what your bar-mitzvah ceremony is all about. Now ordinarily I would snap up the opportunity to learn another language, but our teacher was so bad that nobody learned anything except how to read the funny script out loud.

There was a phonograph record for each week's service, so listening to that while reading the script made it easy to breeze through the service from a technical standpoint. But the worst part was that most boys' voices are in that cracking phase at that age (at least back then), so having to do a service, including singing, in front of a bunch of people when a) you can't carry a tune to save your life and b) your voice is slipping into falsetto every fourth word, is a true rite of passage.

--fleg, shunner of religion having learned his lesson

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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 337965 of 756373
Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/13/2007 4:34 PM
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<<But the worst part was that most boys' voices are in that cracking phase at that age (at least back then)>>



Can it be that global warming has been having yet another unexpected effect? Hold the Presses! AlGore may need to revise his globalk warming liturgy of evil!







Seattle Pioneer

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Author: CathCoy Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 337966 of 756373
Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/13/2007 4:35 PM
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They are good citizens, and make this country smarter and stronger. The fact that they are Muslim does not make them less so.

As such, they should be part of a huge Muslim outcry against those their fellow crazy Muslims who make a mockery of the "religion of peace." Are they part of an outcry? Why or why not? Why are there no giant rallies where their peaceful voices are heard? They're not exactly drowning out the Jihadists, are they?


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Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/13/2007 5:19 PM
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Nazis? Islamists? Same/same.

Just to clarify:-

Do you mean Islamists as in those who wish to pursue an Islamic theocratic government, or do you mean that ALL Muslims are Nazis?

Because if it's the second case, then you are in a serious state of self-induced dementia.


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Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/13/2007 5:33 PM
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Too see how real the threat is, look at France, Holland, and the UK.

The real problem in France and Holland is economic. Religion is hardly the motivating factor.

The radicalisation of Muslim youth in UK is a real and serious threat, and actually has little to do with economics. It is genuinely disturbing, but it is not the entire community.

In the UK, muslims are demanding sharia law in their areas and may well get it.

How much would you like to bet?

OK, want something a little closer to home, they are demanding sharia in Canada...

I know that it's staggering news to some, but that isn't close to my home. I'm from Australia. And a few nutcases are calling for Sharia law here as well, but they have a snowball's chance in hell of getting it.

The trick is to stop bedwetting over phantoms.





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Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/13/2007 5:39 PM
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Just because we're conservative doesn't mean we're whacko's who oppose interacting with someone (good citizens)that is different from us.

Uh... have you read most of the answers in this thread?

If so, what are your thoughts on them?


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Author: Gingko100 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 337987 of 756373
Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/13/2007 7:17 PM
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As such, they should be part of a huge Muslim outcry against those their fellow crazy Muslims who make a mockery of the "religion of peace.

I think - like most people- they identify by culture/country way more than religion. My Bangladeshi friends think of themselves as Banglas first (their mother country, language and culture) and Americans second (their adopted country). Same for my niece as an Algerian/French/American citizen. They don't identify, nor feel the need to make themselves responsible for everything anyone who is Muslim do. Someone who is Bangladeshi has little in common with someone who is Iranian, Bosnian or Saudi. My experience with my Bangladeshi friends is that they relate much more readily to other South Asians (Sri Lankans, Nepalis, Indians, Pakistanis) than any random-off-the street Muslim from another country.

They do pretty much what the average American does (which is not really mass demonstrations - what's the last one you went to after all? I haven't been to one in years) - they discuss, engage and educate their friends and colleagues. They complain and post to on-line boards.

Why aren't they doing more? Perhaps, because like me and you, they are mostly busy living their day-to-day lives. Yes, there should be more public expression of their views. I think if there was there would be far less prejudice, as people would see this silent majority.

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Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/13/2007 7:19 PM
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--fleg, shunner of religion having learned his lesson
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, i always felt bad for jewish kids, not really but still, they had it much worse in the religious study department, and not only that when i went to their houses there was never anything in the fridge <g>.

2828

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Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/13/2007 8:05 PM
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when i went to their houses there was never anything in the fridge

In our case, that was because everything was in the cupboards--in cans.

My parents were as nonreligious as I am. They just forced me through the bar-mitzvah out of some kind of carrying-on-the-culture thing. They never went to synagogue, maybe twice that I can remember and, best of all, did not keep kosher. Otherwise I would have missed out on all those delicious bacon, lettuce, tomato and avocado sandwiches I had, made from avocados fresh from the neighbor's tree every season. Those things were far better than anything my mother was capable of cooking.

--fleg

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Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/13/2007 8:28 PM
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My parents were as nonreligious as I am. They just forced me through the bar-mitzvah out of some kind of carrying-on-the-culture thing. They never went to synagogue, maybe twice that I can remember and, best of all, did not keep kosher. Otherwise I would have missed out on all those delicious bacon, lettuce, tomato and avocado sandwiches I had, made from avocados fresh from the neighbor's tree every season. Those things were far better than anything my mother was capable of cooking.

--fleg
----------------------------------------------------------------------
When i was growing up i didn't appreciate my moms cooking enough, being from northern italy it was always meat sauce based and i liked tomato sauces better, i remember complaining, what an idiot, now i'd love to have my moms food everyday. Not that i'm drawing any parallels to your situation. I love BLT's, i never order them though because i used to work at a country club and they'd have the bacon in the kitchen already cooked on a plate when they made blt's, not exactly fresh, and it's really easy to make a bad blt, if there's not enough bacon it's pretty much a lettuce sandwich and i can make that at home. Avocados, i don't remember where you grew up, those don't grow in oregon, or do they, i dunno.

2828

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Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/13/2007 9:56 PM
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"appeal to irrational fears"

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Were you ever in the World trade Center in NYC?

Were you ever in the Pentagon building?

Howie52
Not prone to irrational fears
- but not prone to forget either.

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Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/13/2007 9:56 PM
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They are good citizens, and make this country smarter and stronger. The fact that they are Muslim does not make them less so.

CathCoy responded:
As such, they should be part of a huge Muslim outcry against those their fellow crazy Muslims who make a mockery of the "religion of peace." Are they part of an outcry? Why or why not? Why are there no giant rallies where their peaceful voices are heard? They're not exactly drowning out the Jihadists, are they?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I agree, Catherine, but hopefully the tide has begun to turn.


Secular Islam Summit

By Tashbih Sayyed

Is Islam relevant in a world that has come to believe in the vitality of human freedoms of choice, expression and reasoning? In a world confronted with the rising tide of Islamist terrorism, the question has assumed importance of critical proportions. Islam has come to be viewed, arguably, as a faith that is totalitarian in its world view and suffocating in its treatment of its adherents. There is a growing realization among Muslims that without accepting the validity of individual reasoning, Islam cannot hope to earn the kind of respectability that has become a norm for the peoples of other faiths – Judaism, Christianity, Hinduism etc.

There is no doubt that an ideology that doesn't respect the right of individuals to have freedom of choice when it comes to choosing a way of life has contributed tremendously in the growth of militancy and religious intolerance threatening the very foundations of civilization. Muslims being brought up under the tutelage of Islamism refuse to allow their co-religionists to think independently and indulge in individual reasoning. The situation has forced the world to believe that Muslims will always remain a threat to world peace and stability unless they find a way to challenge some of Islam's perceived foundations that are frozen in a time when barbarism, cruelty, ethnic cleansing and muzzling of opposing voices was the norm.

These were some of the thoughts on the minds of many who participated in a recently concluded Secular Islam summit in St. Petersburg, Florida, that was organized by the Center for Inquiry of New York. The summit provided Muslims with a platform to voice their concerns regarding the regressive hold of radical Islam on their lives. The summit empowered the Muslims to challenge the growing power of political Islam that threatens freedoms totally and absolutely. The Summit's success ensured that the free thinking Muslims now have a stage and visibility to propose new ideas, introduce new concepts and advance the causes of secularism without being lynched.

Thinking Muslims who had come to St. Petersburg were concerned that without challenging the basic tenets of Islamism, they couldn't hope to bring about any reformation in Islam's manipulated theology and contaminated sociology. They were motivated and encouraged by the fact that only in the U.S. a Muslim could use his right to correct what he or she finds regressive in his or her faith. Everywhere else, no Muslim could raise his voice in defiance of orthodoxy and hoped to live long after. It is a common knowledge that any Muslim who dares speak against the regressive sharia is immediately declared an apostate and in many cases is murdered.

Read more at: http://www.familysecuritymatters.org/homeland.php?id=799375

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Author: TheBreeze Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 338040 of 756373
Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/13/2007 10:11 PM
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Example #2: I got to see and meet many people in Africa when I was on a mission trip there. During a terrorist incursion, the terrorists would cut off a person's arm or leg.

You think that sort of stuff is limited to Muslims in post-colonial Africa!?

Ever heard of Angola? Rwanda?


Yes, I've heard of those places. I was replying to the original request, "I'd like to actually know where your considerable PERSONAL (not FoxNews, not WorldNetDaily, not Newsmax gleaned) knowledge of the situation comes from."

Since I don't have any personal knowledge of those other places, I didn't comment on them.

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Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/13/2007 10:11 PM
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Thanks for the blurb Iggie, it's nice to read about moderates.

http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=YjhjNzI5ZTA3ODI1YjQ4NjdkMGZhNGI5YmM0MGY1MTg=

After this conference, I think it is no longer possible for people to say there are no reformist (or "moderate") Muslims. Some of the participants are ex-Muslims, others insist they are still believers, but all condemn the radical islamism that drives the jihad. All are very courageous, since they are regularly denounced, and threatened, by the noisy and violent islamists who hate infidels even more than those of us from outside the faith ("crusaders") who challenge them. The great scholar Ibn Warraq put it very well indeed: "Courage is not the absence of fear, it is the recognition that there are values that are stronger than fear."
----------------------------------------------------------------------
2828

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Author: JDCRex Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 338043 of 756373
Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/13/2007 10:17 PM
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Since I don't have any personal knowledge of those other places, I didn't comment on them.

Then comment on places in stable countries that have a Muslim population. Like my Australian suburb. Let me know why I should be bedwetting over their presence, like many here seem to be.

Have you been in places like this? Seen many basket-case African nation style killings and maimings in them?



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Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/13/2007 10:21 PM
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Were you ever in the World trade Center in NYC?

Were you ever in the Pentagon building?

Howie52
Not prone to irrational fears
- but not prone to forget either.
--------------------------------------
Thank you.

arrete

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Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/13/2007 10:59 PM
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<<Then comment on places in stable countries that have a Muslim population. Like my Australian suburb. Let me know why I should be bedwetting over their presence, like many here seem to be.

Have you been in places like this? Seen many basket-case African nation style killings and maimings in them?
>>



I think you have already acknowledged that the action of the Moslem populations in several European countries worries you. I suggest that the only real difference between the situation there and the situation you enjoy in Australia is that you still have a lot fewer Muslims, and fewer North African and Arab Muslims in particular.


Permit more mass immigration and you can expect mass problems to go along with that.

And yes, European countries are seeing murders and mass property destruction and large scale challenges to civil authorities. Not mass murder and open revolution, not yet, but that's like to be a next step before long.


In short, I'd say you are sheltered and are ignoring realities that may be very real if Australia permits high rates of immigration with populations others have had a lot of trouble with.



Seattle Pioneer

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Author: JDCRex Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 338064 of 756373
Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/13/2007 11:08 PM
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I think you have already acknowledged that the action of the Moslem populations in several European countries worries you.

I know what I have acknowledged, and that in continental Europe most of the social unrest caused there is due to economic issues that have taken decades to fully develop. I think the same thing would be happening if the rioters were Zoroastrian.

In Britain, it's a different case. The young Muslim radicals seen recently there are not driven by economics. An insidious thread has filtered through the Muslim community there, but it's hardly universal.

Not mass murder and open revolution, not yet, but that's like to be a next step before long.

Fatuous bedwetting crap.

In short, I'd say you are sheltered and are ignoring realities that may be very real if Australia permits high rates of immigration with populations others have had a lot of trouble with.

Once again, more fatuous bedwetting crap. I don't know if you actually believe this tripe or just enjoy the thrill that it gives you to say it.



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Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/13/2007 11:41 PM
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But you ARE a bedwetting,
JDRex


The word count for the gratuitous use of the word "Bedwetting" by JDRex since the thread began:

5698...

JDRex, you may be receiving a call from "Pampers Diapers" soon for a promotional spot....don't scoff, it's good money.

Ask the NASA astronaut who drove from Houston to Orlando....


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Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/14/2007 12:05 AM
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I personally know someone that attempted to do Christian missionary work in Morocco and when he was found out, he & his family were threatened with death if they didn't leave the country. This person told me of the thriving organized child sex-slave markets.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
'Parents are raising their children for sale. They send them to work in the towns, and never see them except to collect their pay-packets'
Slave Trade
The neglect of Morocco's street-children is just the tip of the iceberg of Morocco's child crisis. Across the kingdom, I encountered dozens of children treated as commodities, just as the slave trade of old.

'Parents are raising their children for sale,' says Bashir Nzaggi, news editor with the respected Moroccan newspaper, Liberation. 'They send them to work in the towns, and never see them except to collect their pay-packets.'

Increasingly, Morocco's reputation for child sex is luring an international clientele. Sex tourists from the West tout the old slave markets of Marrakech to buy sex with children. But now an export market has also begun to emerge. Last year, police in a market town in the plains north of Marrakech, bust a network trafficking in 13-year old boys destined for brothels in Italy. Police arrested the dealer, who had - said reports - paid parents $3,000 per child.

According to a recent government survey, 2.5 million children aged under 15 drop out of school, and more than half a million work. Many pursue the tradition of toil in the fields. But in exchange of $30 a month, tens of thousands of parents are now contracting their children to urban families to work as domestic servants in conditions of near slavery. Dealers earn up to $200 per child. It's so institutionalized that kitchens are still designed with low counters for child-maids to wash and cut vegetables.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/people/highlights/streetlife.shtml


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Author: lowstudent Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 338088 of 756373
Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/14/2007 9:07 AM
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Then comment on places in stable countries that have a Muslim population. Like my Australian suburb. Let me know why I should be bedwetting over their presence, like many here seem to be.
_____________

Define what you consider bedwetting.

Do you think nations at war in the Middle East should be extra vigilant in watching what is going on in the Muslim community?

Do you believe that Mosques throughout the country are not sending funds to Jihadists?

Do you believe hate is not being preached at some of the m Mosques?

Do you believe that 9/11 did not happen, that the Spain, Indonesia, French riots, earlier 9/11 incidents didn't happen?

Where has anyone butr some putz from PA doen anything to call for anything other than vigilance in keeping an eye on things with equal safeguards to make sure that nothing bad happens in the communities. Nothing bedweeting here except the reaction by some troll looking for a reason to show their true colors.



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Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/14/2007 10:35 AM
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I know what I have acknowledged, and that in continental Europe most of the social unrest caused there is due to economic issues that have taken decades to fully develop. I think the same thing would be happening if the rioters were Zoroastrian.

Are other European minority communities taking part in the rioting as much as the Muslim minority community? Are the Roma contributing to the rioting? Are the Jews contributing? Are the Nigerians and other African minorities contributing? Are the Zoroastrians contributing :-)?

In Britain, it's a different case. The young Muslim radicals seen recently there are not driven by economics. An insidious thread has filtered through the Muslim community there, but it's hardly universal.

Why do you think this "insidious thread" filtered through the Muslim community rather than one of the other minority communities in Britain?

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Author: lggie Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 338126 of 756373
Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/14/2007 2:05 PM
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Sura 3:151 states: "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority: their abode will be the Fire: And evil is the home of the wrong-doers!" Sura 9:25 declares: "But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful."

Sura 9:29 states: "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." (Jizya was a tax which non-Muslims had to pay to their Muslim overlords).


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Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/14/2007 5:16 PM
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Are other European minority communities taking part in the rioting as much as the Muslim minority community?

It's overwhelmingly circumstantial. They are rioting and happen to be Muslim, because that is what the predominant religion of the urban unemployed is. It's not the religion that motivates them, it's economics. It's like the Portobello Road riots in the 50's and 70s. Back then it was primarily Caribbean rioters, sometimes goaded on by ultra right wingers.

Why do you think this "insidious thread" filtered through the Muslim community rather than one of the other minority communities in Britain?

Britain is an interesting case. The recent Muslim terrorism there has been a very disturbing kind -- native born. Also, many of these young men had been highly assimilated until a radical change in attitude. I put it down to initially being uncomfortable with either of the cultures that inform them. They didn't feel fully British, and probably didn't feel accepted by white Britains, rightly or wrongly. And even though they had spent a lot of time rejecting their parent's culture, they swung back to it very hard as a means of searching for a cohesive identity. By the time they did, a readymade template as a radical had developed. Joining a radical cell gave them an enormous sense of belonging, and allowed them to slip into a tight knit social group with a definite albeit horribly twisted purpose. That these cells were Muslim is also down to circumstances: for the last few decades a radical culture has developed within the Muslim world, but if you think it's the only one that has experienced this, you are utterly kidding yourself. For a very long time, terrorism in Britain was the domain of the IRA and its related groups (as well as the counter organisations in Northern Ireland itself). All it takes is radicalisation of a small element, and the virus will begin to transmit.

But as I've said, it's hardly universal.

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Author: 2828 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 338162 of 756373
Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/14/2007 5:26 PM
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It's overwhelmingly circumstantial. They are rioting and happen to be Muslim, because that is what the predominant religion of the urban unemployed is. It's not the religion that motivates them, it's economics.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Are you saying the economy in france leaves alot to be desired?

2828

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Author: JDCRex Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 338165 of 756373
Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/14/2007 5:36 PM
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Are you saying the economy in france leaves alot to be desired?

Why the hell wouldn't I?

Like many economies, it's a highly mixed bag.

Do you think that if someone doesn't consider bedwetting about ALL Muslims a useful or justified endeavour that that somehow automatically translates into a clutching fealty to the French economy!?

If so, you really don't know what goes on in the non-reactionary mind.

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Author: 2828 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 338168 of 756373
Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/14/2007 5:44 PM
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Like many economies, it's a highly mixed bag.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's a highly mixed bag: high unemployment, low growth, protectionism, BIG UNIONS, and high taxes. It's got a little of everything, it's a mixed bag but if you reach in the bag you are guaranteed to pull something bad out.

2828

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Author: decath Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 338169 of 756373
Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/14/2007 5:47 PM
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I've know 3 Muslims from the Middle East and 2 from India.

The Indian Mulsims seemed peaceful, almost pacifistic.

The Jordanians were blatant anti-semetic. Talk about Israel or Jews and their faces turned red with anger and hate. They had trouble composing themselves in fact.

It was like watching Linda Blaire transform in the Exercist. One moment a computer geek; the next, Islamo-warrior wannabe, willing to aid in pushing the Jews into the sea.

decath

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Author: arrete Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 338177 of 756373
Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/14/2007 6:19 PM
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I just noticed that this thread is titled "How many of you know or live near Muslims?".

Gee, they're everywhere here. Some live across the street. I see them in their front yard trying to get good reception on their cell phone (good luck, suckers). Every place in retail. Sometimes they bring me birds. Mostly seem like regular people. But then I don't expect I'll personally run into the fanatics.

arrete

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Author: tmeri Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 338180 of 756373
Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/14/2007 6:22 PM
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But then I don't expect I'll personally run into the fanatics.

I doubt you would know. Terrorists are taught to "blend in" with the culture. Threatening to behead people or blow up planes isn't blending-in behavior.

Living near or knowing Muslims is not a very good measuring stick, if you ask me.




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Author: arrete Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 338193 of 756373
Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/14/2007 7:12 PM
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Living near or knowing Muslims is not a very good measuring stick, if you ask me.
--------------
Thanks, tmeri. Like I have a choice (well, yes I do but it involves divorcing DH and leaving the area where all my kids (and grandkids) live - no thanks - I'll just get blown up with my fam).

arrete - hope Art is right

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Author: tmeri Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 338195 of 756373
Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/14/2007 7:17 PM
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Thanks, tmeri. Like I have a choice

Oops, sorry. I was really addressing the false premise of the subject. I don't think you are in any more danger from the Muslims you know than I am from those I know. But I don't agree that knowing some Muslims will tell us whether Islam is more dangerous than other religions. That is a false premise.




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Author: ariechert Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 338196 of 756373
Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/14/2007 7:18 PM
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Thanks, tmeri. Like I have a choice (well, yes I do but it involves divorcing DH and leaving the area where all my kids (and grandkids) live - no thanks - I'll just get blown up with my fam).

arrete - hope Art is right

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I have a high degree of confidence that I am. Whenever I go over it in my head there are just too pieces of the puzzle that seem to fit together for it all to just be an accident. The most amazing thing to me continues to be the parallels between the things near death experiencers say and what Michael Talbot wrote about in The Holographic Universe. Too many coincidences for it to be an accident.

The Holographic Universe, online essay:
http://www.earthportals.com/hologram.html#zine

Mark Horton's NDE:
http://www.mindspring.com/~scottr/nde/markh.html

Emmanuel Swedenborg:
http://www.soultravel.nu/2004/040907-swedenborg/index.shtml

Arthur




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Author: fleg9bo Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 338198 of 756373
Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/14/2007 7:18 PM
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Living near or knowing Muslims is not a very good measuring stick, if you ask me.

Saw Chertoff, head of Homeland Security, giving a press conference today. He said the policy of letting holders of EU passports into the US is an increasing security concern. The reason is that radical Islam is increasingly attracting middle-class Muslims in Europe, so they're seeing people you'd never identify as extremists willing to blow themselves up for the cause. And flying into east coast cities is a lot easier than flying into Mexico and walking across the border.

--fleg

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Author: arrete Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 338200 of 756373
Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/14/2007 7:20 PM
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But I don't agree that knowing some Muslims will tell us whether Islam is more dangerous than other religions. That is a false premise.
----------------------------
Ah! Totally agree. I think it is more inherently dangerous than other religions I know of.

arrete - living on the edge <g>

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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 338203 of 756373
Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/14/2007 8:29 PM
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<<It was like watching Linda Blaire transform in the Exercist. One moment a computer geek; the next, Islamo-warrior wannabe, willing to aid in pushing the Jews into the sea.

decath
>>


Who can blame them?


Very heavy Jewish immigration with the stated intention of forming a Jewish state led to exactly that, and the dispossession of much of the population living there.


We are lucky the population of the United States was Indian rather than Muslim Arabs/Palestinian.



Seattle Pioneer

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Author: TheBreeze Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 338217 of 756373
Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/14/2007 9:29 PM
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Since I don't have any personal knowledge of those other places, I didn't comment on them.

Then comment on places in stable countries that have a Muslim population. Like my Australian suburb. Let me know why I should be bedwetting over their presence


Again, I was replying to the original request, "I'd like to actually know where your considerable PERSONAL (not FoxNews, not WorldNetDaily, not Newsmax gleaned) knowledge of the situation comes from." There wasn't any request to "comment on places in stable countries that have a Muslim population," so I made no such comment. You asked for personal experiences with Muslim violnce, and I gave two, but now you're incensed that anybody actually answered your question.

Personally, I recommend *against* your self-proclaimed bedwetting, but you show little inclination for rational response.


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Author: lggie Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 338229 of 756373
Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/14/2007 10:10 PM
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From TheBreeze
Yes, I've heard of those places. I was replying to the original request, "I'd like to actually know where your considerable PERSONAL (not FoxNews, not WorldNetDaily, not Newsmax gleaned) knowledge of the situation comes from."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
By the way, what ever happened to those other three networks?
FOX leads with 4.0 rating knocking CBS with 3.9.

Among the runners-up, ABC has a 3.5, NBC has 3.4, Univision has a 1.6 and The CW a 1.3. http://www.tvweek.com/news.cms?newsId=11713
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I really don't know whether we'll be printing the NYTimes in five years, and you know what? I don't care either," Arthur Sulzberger says. http://www.wakeupfromyourslumber.com/node/603
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Liberals can and will screw up anything. Lets see what they do to the Democratic Party.

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Author: ariechert Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 338238 of 756373
Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/14/2007 10:29 PM
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"I really don't know whether we'll be printing the NYTimes in five years, and you know what? I don't care either," Arthur Sulzberger says."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The important thing about this post that really stood out to me was there was a guy named Arthur in it. Arthur is a big name to live up to.

Society for the Preservation and Promulgation of the Name Arthur

http://www.geol.ucsb.edu/faculty/sylvester/NORSK%20TEPHRA%20FORENING/arthur_society.html

Arthur

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Author: JDCRex Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 338255 of 756373
Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/15/2007 12:38 AM
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You asked for personal experiences with Muslim violnce

Bulldust. The only reasonable inference that could be drawn from my statement "I must be missing the devious signs of Sharia popping up that would have me running around like a headless chicken screeching for expulsions" is that I am talking about a situation in a stable Western country rather than a war-ravaged African one.

You can try to clausify and equivocate your way out of it all you like. It doesn't change the truth.

Personally, I recommend *against* your self-proclaimed bedwetting, but you show little inclination for rational response.

No, you've shown little inclination to actually answer. So, I'll ask again: should I be bedwetting over the happenstance of Muslims living nearby me in suburban Australia? Should I be fearing Sharia, pasting messageboards with cautionary tales of the evils of the Mohammedan horde, jumping up and down about whose holy book is the more bloodthirsty and all the other ridiculous crap that reactionaries get up to here?

Or should I just think "well, the vast majority don't seem to be bothering me or anyone else, I'll just assume that they're here to get on with their lives. And, like the rest of the population, some might be bad apples, but not all?"

You tell me, given that you're such an arbiter of the reasonable.




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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 338258 of 756373
Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/15/2007 1:55 AM
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<<No, you've shown little inclination to actually answer. So, I'll ask again: should I be bedwetting over the happenstance of Muslims living nearby me in suburban Australia? Should I be fearing Sharia, pasting messageboards with cautionary tales of the evils of the Mohammedan horde, jumping up and down about whose holy book is the more bloodthirsty and all the other ridiculous crap that reactionaries get up to here?
>>



Well, Australians were pretty much completely unprepared to defend against an invasion by the Japanese. Lucky for you a lot of Americans saved your bacon that time.


The next time I imagine you will be on your own when the Chinese, Muslims or whoever take your country away from you.


Until then, keep your head tucked under the pillow.



Seattle Pioneer

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Author: ariechert Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 338260 of 756373
Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/15/2007 2:02 AM
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No, you've shown little inclination to actually answer. So, I'll ask again: should I be bedwetting over the happenstance of Muslims living nearby me in suburban Australia? Should I be fearing Sharia, pasting messageboards with cautionary tales of the evils of the Mohammedan horde, jumping up and down about whose holy book is the more bloodthirsty and all the other ridiculous crap that reactionaries get up to here?
...................................................................
Well, Australians were pretty much completely unprepared to defend against an invasion by the Japanese. Lucky for you a lot of Americans saved your bacon that time. The next time I imagine you will be on your own when the Chinese, Muslims or whoever take your country away from you. Until then, keep your head tucked under the pillow. Seattle Pioneer

_____________________________________________________________________

No, not at all. Not in your lifetime. It's going to be a slow and insidious invasion. Won through the wombs of Islamic women. They'll be the real warriors. It will happen at the polls, during elections, when after many generations they finally have enough of a majority to instill what they believe is moral and just.

At my church they were gloating when Tennessee voted down gay marriage. The Christian vote was strong enough to enact a law that prohibits gay marriage.

That's what you'll face. Slow and steady will win the race. One day they'll just be the majority and then we'll have to live by their rules.

Art


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Author: JDCRex Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 338262 of 756373
Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/15/2007 2:17 AM
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Well, Australians were pretty much completely unprepared to defend against an invasion by the Japanese.

And there he goes. Another valiant attempt at winning the Don Quixote Medal for tilting at utterly irrelevant windmills.

The next time I imagine you will be on your own when the Chinese, Muslims or whoever take your country away from you.

Until then, keep your head tucked under the pillow.


Try plastic undersheets. The only solution for chronic bedwetters.

Sweet keerist, you live in a mighty strange world. I'm surprised you can even get the internet from your mile deep bunker.


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Author: TheBreeze Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 338270 of 756373
Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/15/2007 6:26 AM
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You asked for personal experiences with Muslim violence

Bulldust.


OK, I must have misunderstood your original request: "Given that most of you reactionaries seem to be such experts on the unspeakable horrors of what it is like to be under the thumb of Muslims, I'd like to actually know where your considerable PERSONAL (not FoxNews, not WorldNetDaily, not Newsmax gleaned) knowledge of the situation comes from."

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Author: JDCRex Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 338272 of 756373
Subject: Re: How many of you know or live near Muslims? Date: 3/15/2007 7:20 AM
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OK, I must have misunderstood your original request

You must have. So there's an object lesson in the value of reading an entire post rather than just a section of it. As I said to you previously, the complete context could only reasonably be expected to be about Muslims in stable and probably Western countries. Why the hell else would I mention expulsions?

And you still fail to answer the question. So, I'll ask it again:-

Should I be bedwetting over the happenstance of Muslims living nearby me in suburban Australia? Should I be fearing Sharia, pasting messageboards with cautionary tales of the evils of the Mohammedan horde, jumping up and down about whose holy book is the more bloodthirsty and all the other ridiculous crap that reactionaries get up to here?

Or should I just think "well, the vast majority don't seem to be bothering me or anyone else, I'll just assume that they're here to get on with their lives. And, like the rest of the population, some might be bad apples, but not all?"

Can you give me an answer?


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