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Author: intercst Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 744493  
Subject: How safe do you feel? Date: 9/16/2001 3:25 PM
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Despite the tremendous loss of life on Tuesday, you're still far more likely to be murdered by one of your fellow Americans than a Muslim fanatic. The current US murder rate is about 7 per 100,000 population, which equates to about 20,000 murders for our nation of 300 million people, see link:

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/hmrt.htm

The terrorists will have to get very busy in the last 3 months of the year to ellipse the annual body count Americans inflict on each other.

However, we can no longer blithely say that "you're more likely to be struck by lightning than killed by a terrorist" since only about 300 people are injured by lightning strikes each year and less than 100 die, see link:

http://205.156.54.206/om/brochures/trwbro.htm

intercst
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Author: vickifool Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 50503 of 744493
Subject: Re: How safe do you feel? Date: 9/16/2001 3:48 PM
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I've been worried about Ad Sach and Ravinamk since I read this:

CONFIRMED (per earlier update at 1:50p) Authorities stop Amtrak train in Rhode Island. Security officers arrest man wearing a turban, alleging that he was carrying a knife.

from http://monitor.airsecurity.com/

THAT sounded to me like a Sikh, not a Muslim. They wear turbans, and it is a religious requirement that they wear a knife, although in the US it is usually either sewn into a sheath so that it can't be removed, or part of a hair barrette.


Then this:

http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/09/16/gen.mesa.shooting/

MESA, Arizona (CNN) -- A man was being questioned by police Sunday in connection with the shooting death of a gas station owner, an Indian immigrant who was a Sikh.


I'll bet Ad Sach and Ravinamk knew the man who was murdered. They live in the area.

Damn! How do we stop "our fellow Americans"?

Vickifool



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Author: ziggy29 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 50504 of 744493
Subject: Re: How safe do you feel? Date: 9/16/2001 3:53 PM
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>> I've been worried about Ad Sach and Ravinamk since I read this <<

I've been thinking that for the last five days.

I'm normally an opponent of "hate crimes," because I believe the criminal act is in and of itself the problem, not the opinions behind it -- but given these extraordinary times, I'm willing to at least temporarily withdraw my objections.

It is imperative that the good people of America -- the vast majority who recognize they are Americans like the rest of us -- show the reactionary punks that their racist, vigilante attitudes will NOT be tolerated. We must demonstrate through our actions that we are above that.

Just as my thoughts are with the "obvious" victims and their families, so too are my thoughts are with the peace-loving people everywhere who are becoming the targets of a few evil bastards who demonstrate through their actions that they're no better than the monsters who victimized the entire civilized world on Tuesday.

#29

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Author: sydsydsyd Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 50505 of 744493
Subject: Re: How safe do you feel? Date: 9/16/2001 3:57 PM
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Despite the tremendous loss of life on Tuesday, you're still far more likely to be murdered by one of your fellow Americans than a Muslim fanatic. The current US murder rate is about 7 per 100,000 population, which equates to about 20,000 murders for our nation of 300 million people

You're even more likely to die in an automobile accident. The rate of such fatalities is approximately 1 in 6,000 each year, or about 50,000 deaths per year assuming a population of 300 million.

http://www.nsc.org/lrs/statinfo/odds.htm

That said, it's by no means out of the question that there will be more acts of terrorism as events unfold.

sydsydsyd

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Author: fleg9bo Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 50506 of 744493
Subject: Re: How safe do you feel? Date: 9/16/2001 4:10 PM
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Despite the tremendous loss of life on Tuesday, you're still far more likely to be murdered by one of your fellow Americans than a Muslim fanatic.

This may not be true if you're addressing the readers of this board. I doubt that very many of us hang out in places where the majority of murders occur in this country. I doubt that many of us have even seen a drive-by shooting. On the other hand, we are probably more likely to be on airplanes and in vulnerable office buildings (before ER, of course) than the average American. So our chances of being murdered by a terrorist may actually be greater than by a fellow American.

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Author: warrl Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 50507 of 744493
Subject: Re: How safe do you feel? Date: 9/16/2001 4:24 PM
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Just FYI, the two best ways to arrange to not be murdered (based on statistical correlation, which of course does not necessarily indicate causation):

(1) Don't hang around with known violent criminals.
(2) Don't BE a known violent criminal.

I think "own your own home" was around 5th. Nothing directly involving weapons or combat skills outranked it.

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Author: intercst Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 50508 of 744493
Subject: Re: How safe do you feel? Date: 9/16/2001 4:25 PM
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fleg9bo writes,

<<<<Despite the tremendous loss of life on Tuesday, you're still far more likely to be murdered by one of your fellow Americans than a Muslim fanatic.>>>>>

This may not be true if you're addressing the readers of this board. I doubt that very many of us hang out in places where the majority of murders occur in this country. I doubt that many of us have even seen a drive-by shooting. On the other hand, we are probably more likely to be on airplanes and in vulnerable office buildings (before ER, of course) than the average American. So our chances of being murdered by a terrorist may actually be greater than by a fellow American.


Of course individual risks vary.

There seems to be a drive-by shooting every weekend in the nightclub district less than 1 mile down the avenue from my home. However, it's been three years since I've flown on an airline -- not out of fear of flying, it's just often more convenient to drive when you have the time.

intercst

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Author: fleg9bo Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 50510 of 744493
Subject: Re: How safe do you feel? Date: 9/16/2001 4:59 PM
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Of course individual risks vary.

Drive-by shootings only a mile from your place? Maybe it's time to up your withdrawl rate another 0.1% and move someplace safer.<g>

Some friends of my wife worked in her company's NYC office in the WTC. Fortunately they all made it out safely after the first crash. My wife has flown from Boston, NYC, Newark, Atlanta and DC to Calif many times on business. I'm pleased that she has taken another job in the company that will require much less travel to the east coast, but I'm still nervous about the regular trips to CA she will have to make in the future, even though it's from backwater OR.

P.S. We were in Sunriver in central OR last week. I don't know how good the golf courses are there, but it's so beautiful it's scary. We had lunch at a cafe on the edge of a course and I was tempted to take up golf just to be able to check out the scenery from the middle of it.


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Author: Daryll40 Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 50513 of 744493
Subject: Re: How safe do you feel? Date: 9/16/2001 5:30 PM
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I have NO PROBLEM people practicing their religion in any way as long as it doesn't threaten me or you. That being said, I can't imagine any religion that REQUIRES someone to carry a knife. I don't care if we insult that person or their lord, knives shouldn't be allowed on people using mass transit and/or in other situations with large numbers of people in crowded places.

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Author: pekinrobin Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 50518 of 744493
Subject: Re: How safe do you feel? Date: 9/16/2001 5:41 PM
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<I doubt that many of us have even seen a drive-by shooting. On the other hand, we are probably more likely to be on airplanes and in vulnerable office buildings (before ER, of course) than the average American. So our chances of being murdered by a terrorist may actually be greater than by a fellow American>

I've seen a drive-by shooting. More than one. The last one I witnessed, it was my house that was shot up. Fortunately, it was a rental, and I was able to move into and close on my own home in less than 2 months, so it all has a happy ending.

It's a bit blame the victim to assume that drive-by victims brought it on themselves. People do have family and friends, and unless we totally isolate ourselves, sometimes we expose ourselves to family and friends who do stupid things. I would venture a guess that most innocent drive-by victims, it happens because a family member got involved in drugs. In our case, however, it happened for the opposite reason -- a friend stupidly decided to clean up the drug dealers on the corner. As they were in the pay of the city police, this was not a practical idea. His home and his neighbor's home got shot up a couple weeks earlier. Then he was coming home and noticed that he was being followed again, so he decided to visit his childless friend's house rather than put his little girl in danger. What a guy, huh!!! Well, there was obviously little point in driving to the police station! Anyway, the crackheads involved couldn't hit the backside of the barn. They were parked in front of the house and fired 5 bullets -- only one of which actually entered the house! But I wouldn't just shrug my shoulders and assume that murder always happens to somebody else. In my new city, there has been only 2 murders in 10 years but if the police went bad, I'm confident it would turn just as rotten as the first suburban city. Both cities are suburbs of New Orleans, in case you are curious.

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Author: markr33 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 50519 of 744493
Subject: Re: How safe do you feel? Date: 9/16/2001 5:42 PM
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THAT sounded to me like a Sikh, not a Muslim. They wear turbans, and it is a religious requirement that they wear a knife, although in the US it is usually either sewn into a sheath so that it can't be removed, or part of a hair barrette.

Wow - I never knew that ! I suppose the ACLU will have to bring a court case for their free expression of their religion while in airports and flying.

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Author: markr33 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 50521 of 744493
Subject: Re: How safe do you feel? Date: 9/16/2001 5:47 PM
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<<Despite the tremendous loss of life on Tuesday, you're still far more likely to be murdered by one of your fellow Americans than a Muslim fanatic.>>

This may not be true if you're addressing the readers of this board. I doubt that very many of us hang out in places where the majority of murders occur in this country. I doubt that many of us have even seen a drive-by shooting. On the other hand, we are probably more likely to be on airplanes and in vulnerable office buildings (before ER, of course) than the average American. So our chances of being murdered by a terrorist may actually be greater than by a fellow American.


This is very true - if you look at murder statistics, most people are murdered by an acquaintance. The most common cases of murder involve people conspiring to commit, or having committed a crime in the past. By far, the most common incidence of murder is in the drug trade.


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Author: markr33 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 50522 of 744493
Subject: Re: How safe do you feel? Date: 9/16/2001 5:51 PM
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Of course individual risks vary.

There seems to be a drive-by shooting every weekend in the nightclub district less than 1 mile down the avenue from my home. However, it's been three years since I've flown on an airline -- not out of fear of flying, it's just often more convenient to drive when you have the time.


Wow ! I wonder if it might be worth an extra 100 bucks a month to live in a better area ? After all, at a withdrawal rate of 1.2%, you can still very "safely" increase you withdrawal by $1200/yr !

Are RE's more concerned about the safety of their withdrawal rates than their life ?

Of course, I flew well over 100,000 miles last year which may not be a good idea anymore !


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Author: intercst Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 50523 of 744493
Subject: Re: How safe do you feel? Date: 9/16/2001 6:03 PM
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fleg9bo writes,

<<<<<Of course individual risks vary.>>>>>

Drive-by shootings only a mile from your place? Maybe it's time to up your withdrawl rate another 0.1% and move someplace safer.<g>


Surprisingly, the neighborhood with all the gunfire is actually slightly more expensive than where I live since it's closer to downtown.

Folks are apparently willing to trade an increased risk of homicide for a shorter morning commute.

intercst
(who rarely arises early enough to observe the morning commute)


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Author: intercst Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 50525 of 744493
Subject: Re: How safe do you feel? Date: 9/16/2001 6:16 PM
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vickifool writes,

THAT sounded to me like a Sikh, not a Muslim. They wear turbans, and it is a religious requirement that they wear a knife, although in the US it is usually either sewn into a sheath so that it can't be removed, or part of a hair barrette.


That's very interesting.

I wonder if their religion specifies the sharpness of the blade and material of construction of the knife?

Perhaps we can compromise and let them carry a dull, rubber blade.

intercst

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Author: inparadise Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 50539 of 744493
Subject: Re: How safe do you feel? Date: 9/16/2001 8:55 PM
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How safe do I feel? Not at all. Because of the company my DH works at and where we live, we are a potential target. In the past we have had two trial evacuations, mandated by the government because of the potential for terrorist activities. We knew at the time that they were "fire drills" so to speak, and treated them lightly. No one is giggling any more.

The Unspeakable Act happened at the begining of my third week of teaching. I felt woefully unprepared, though I doubt anyone is ever prepared for this kind of event. I was amazed at how widespread direct involvement was with our little island and potential victims of this Act. One of my kids has a brother who works at the Pentagon, two others had a dad working in the towers. A friend of mine left the island in July to take the job of a lifetime in NYC, (almost was,) and we later learned that she had just left the towers when the first plane hit and had to run through the debris. My sister was at the towers on Sunday playing tourist with some visiting friends, and my brother is booked on American flight 11 from Boston to LA in two more weeks. Something tells me that flight number will be changed. My parents live in Sarasota, and I am thankful that they did not bomb where the President was visiting that day.

The question my students most ask me is "Are you afraid Mrs. IP?" I lie through my teeth and tell them no. We are insignificant and frankly most of the mainland has no clue that we are part of the US. Were our island to sink, most would say, "OH, that poor little Caribbean Nation!", having no clue as to the connection to the US. Even the Federal Govt in the guise of the post office tries to charge extra postage to send mail here. Not that that has been much of an issue lately with the planes not bringing any mail. But though I was so very fortunate not to lose anyone I love, the closeness of it scares the hell out of me, and I realize that anything is possible. I try not to look over my shoulder, but it takes a very real effort. I am constantly bordering tears.

We have a large Arab population here, and I feel for those kids. I do not tolerate any denigrating remarks in my class, even if in jest. For the most part, my kids are great. But these poor kids have to be torn in two. They are Americans, yet the "Arab owned" businesses are being boycotted. They are gettting the shaft twice. I tried to explain to the kids how the Japanese Americans were wrongfully treated during WWII, and that we need to learn from our history and not repeat our idiocies. Fortunately, the 7th and 8th graders are young, and they heal quickly. It happened a lifetime away for most of them.

I try really hard not to snap at my 6 year old when he starts to mimick that which he sees on the news. He doesn't understand the carnage that took place, and frankly I don't want him to. Not until he is much older. For him, the noises are just too cool to ignore. We try to minimize their exposure to the news, but I am unable to turn CNN off. We had to go home Tuesday night through an armed barricade, so I had to explain what happened to them in general terms. I know they have no real comprehension, since I can't comprehend it myself. Ironically, given the name of this board, we are safest while at work and school, which is the same location for me and my boys. My husband works at the potential ground zero, where we also live.

No, I find none of your statistics comforting. It is a new era, and I am afraid. I am very afraid. But because I am a mother, because I am a teacher, it stays bottled up inside of me, only to escape in rare moments of quiet isolation.

InParadise,
Who really wants to be 6 again.

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Author: tsusi Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 50546 of 744493
Subject: Re: How safe do you feel? Date: 9/16/2001 9:31 PM
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In Paradise said:

No, I find none of your statistics comforting. It is a new era, and I am afraid. I am very afraid.

In Paradise,

I am very much with you. I don't even think we realize what a "new era" we are in yet. And my biggest fear is that, either because of our heretofore (collective) short attention spans, or precipitous action by our government (or a combination/interaction of both), the 5,000 plus lives that are lost will have been in vain.

I just hope that we have the guts to really take action, and the wisdom to figure out what the right actions are.

Susi

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Author: Crazyinlovefool Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 50554 of 744493
Subject: Re: How safe do you feel? Date: 9/16/2001 9:55 PM
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WTC bombing in 1993, 1 block away. WTC 2nd plane crash, 4 blocks away.
Terrorist 0 fer 2. Yep. I'm more afraid of "my fellow american"

Crazyinlovefool

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Author: EditorialWe Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 50563 of 744493
Subject: Re: How safe do you feel? Date: 9/16/2001 11:40 PM
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I wonder if their religion specifies the sharpness of the blade and material of construction of the knife?
Perhaps we can compromise and let them carry a dull, rubber blade.


There is a subgroup of Sikhs called Khalsa Sikhs. There are five ceremonial things they are supposed to wear at all time, one of which is the kirpan, or dagger.

The kirpan is required to be made of steel but it does not have a prescribed length. Some Sikhs do, in fact, wear a minature version (about 1 cm) attached to a hair comb (the comb is itself another of the five ritual signs of being a Khalsa Sikh.)

However, different groups of Khalsa Sikhs feel differently about this issue (as with all religions, there are always factions...) A lot of them feel that a 'fake' mini sirpan is not acceptable, and want to have one that is at least big enough to hold. Very often these Sikhs have carried special 'travel kirpans' that are less than 4 inches, the regulation for blades that can be carried on airplanes...or at least COULD be carried on airplanes, back when. There also seems to be a lot of difference of opinion as to whether the blade is allowed to be dull and/or the point blunted.

I should state that the symbolic significance of the kirpan is that it signifies the readiness of the wearer to defend the helpless and innocent. It is not really intended as a usable weapon (although there is difference of opinion about this too.)

I frankly have no idea what is going to happen now that NO kind of knives or cutting implements are allowed on planes, whether some Sikhs will be moved to adopt the 1 cm variety or kirpan, or will simply stop going on planes, or what. Come to think of it, this issue must have already come up, because while the US and Canada used to go by the 4 inch rule with regard to knives, I don't think this was the worldwide policy and other countries must have already had stricter rules.

I visited a few Sikh websites looking for more info (of course, I did not know all the above off the top of my head, although I was generally familiar with the kirpan and what it meant, having personally encountered it in a context not imporant now) but cannot find any specific info with regard to US air travel right now.

What I DID find is a lot of really heartbreaking stuff about Sikhs being harassed and attacked because they wear turbans and many of them are non-Caucasian in appearance (although others are blond and blue-eyed, there being a fair number of US converts to Sikhism.)

Oh, and the fellow who was arrested on Amtrak in Rhode Island was, in fact, a Sikh.

EditorialWe

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Author: intercst Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 50567 of 744493
Subject: Re: How safe do you feel? Date: 9/17/2001 12:06 AM
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EditorialWe writes,

<<<<I wonder if their religion specifies the sharpness of the blade and material of construction of the knife?
Perhaps we can compromise and let them carry a dull, rubber blade.>>>>>

There is a subgroup of Sikhs called Khalsa Sikhs. There are five ceremonial things they are supposed to wear at all time, one of which is the kirpan, or dagger.

The kirpan is required to be made of steel but it does not have a prescribed length. Some Sikhs do, in fact, wear a minature version (about 1 cm) attached to a hair comb (the comb is itself another of the five ritual signs of being a Khalsa Sikh.) ........


Thanks for that in depth research on kirpans.

No doubt we all would benefit from learning more about the traditions of our fellow Americans. While we certainly want to go after the perpetrators of Tuesday's attacks, we don't want to be gulity of rounding up all the usual suspects in the search for the guilty.

Just tonight, the local news here in Houston had a story about a Pakistani-owned business that was torched today by some yahoos in response to Tuesday's events.

intercst


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Author: gurdison Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 50570 of 744493
Subject: Re: How safe do you feel? Date: 9/17/2001 1:54 AM
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<The question my students most ask me is "Are you afraid Mrs. IP?" I lie through my teeth and tell them no....I try really hard not to snap at my 6 year old when he starts to mimick that which he sees on the news. He doesn't understand the carnage that took place, and frankly I don't want him to. Not until he is much older.>


Just another take on a very difficult subject. I realize that people may have differing opinions, but I think it is wrong to lie to the 7th and 8th graders or to completely shield your 6 year old from the reality. I do not feel that one size fits all in the explanation department. I would certainly not go into any great detail with the 6 year old. For the 13 year olds, I would listen very closely to the questions that they are asking. I think many of them can see through a person who is lying to them. It is not a sign of weakness to admit fear to children.

Maybe part of the difference we feel may be related to geography. Living about 25 miles away from the WTC does have an influence on me. Several nearby towns have cars still sitting in the train station parking lots since last Tuesday. While I do not have anyone that I directly know among the missing, there is more than enough of a link between all of us in the area. My step-son works in the city and was looking out the window of his 22nd floor office when he saw the second plane approach and crash into the WTC. I see part of what he saw in his watery eyes every time he talks about it.

There is way too much pain caused by all of this. I do not know exactly what I would tell a child, but I would not feel right telling them that I was not afraid or that everything is or will be fine. There are just too many children who will not have their mother, father, aunt, uncle, brother or sister ever coming home again. Unfortunately, there are some very evil people in this world. Children need to learn this for their own safety. I do not for a minute believe that the world as a whole is evil. I think it is important for children to learn that there is a difference. Shielding them too much can prevent them from spotting people with evil intentions in their own lives. Being able to get "bad news" people out their lives is an incredibly important tool that could even save their lives.

While I am so saddened by the staggering loss of life, I am heartened by the efforts of so many who are working their way through the rubble and those who are providing comfort to those who have suffered unbearable losses.


BRG

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Author: phantomdiver Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 50589 of 744493
Subject: Re: How safe do you feel? Date: 9/17/2001 10:22 AM
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How safe do I feel?

I live 17 miles from Washington, DC, which I think is going to be a major target for terrorists. I work a mile from the White House. My second child, thank God, is in college far from home, so she's probably out of danger, but my other three children are either at home or close to it. My brother lives about 25 miles from DC. His wife works even closer to the White House than I do. Their two children still live at home. Does anybody know how much damage nuclear bombs can do these days? I don't. I assume that if I'm at work and one hits, I'm dead. I don't know what would happen if I were at home.

My oldest child, my beloved firstborn, is talking about enlisting. The oldest nephew on my side (who lives in Boston) is old enough to do so. I'm an Army brat. My dad went to West Point, class of 1942. His class lost about 25% of its graduates to war -- not my dad, though of his 30 years in the Army, he spent 7.5 years at war. I know more than most what war means, especially a protracted ground war like we seem to be contemplating.

How safe do you think I feel?

Intercst, as much as I respect you, the statistics you cite are now a lot of hooey. They were blown out of the water last Tuesday.

phantomdiver


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Subject: Re: How safe do you feel? Date: 9/17/2001 11:35 AM
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phantomdiver writes,

I live 17 miles from Washington, DC, which I think is going to be a major target for terrorists. I work a mile from the White House. My second child, thank God, is in college far from home, so she's probably out of danger, but my other three children are either at home or close to it. My brother lives about 25 miles from DC. His wife works even closer to the White House than I do. Their two children still live at home. Does anybody know how much damage nuclear bombs can do these days? I don't. I assume that if I'm at work and one hits, I'm dead. I don't know what would happen if I were at home.


If you have the stomach for reading it, you can find the answer here,

http://www.fas.org/nuke/trinity/nukeffct/

Personally, if there's a nuclear attack, intercst will be running towards the blast, not away from it. Everything I've read about the after effects of even a limited nuclear war leads me to believe the living will envy the dead.

Sadly, a 4% withdrawal rate won't protect you from everything.

intercst


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Author: markr33 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 50598 of 744493
Subject: Re: How safe do you feel? Date: 9/17/2001 11:47 AM
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Intercst, as much as I respect you, the statistics you cite are now a lot of hooey. They were blown out of the water last Tuesday.

Why do you say that ? The statistics include a number of wars and upheavals (WWI, WWII, Vietnam, Korea, Gulf, etc.).

But I agree that it will get worse before it gets better. I sure hope it doesn't happen, but next time will either be nuclear or biological - those two choices are the only way to top this.


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Author: phantomdiver Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 50601 of 744493
Subject: Re: How safe do you feel? Date: 9/17/2001 12:08 PM
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Intercst, as much as I respect you, the statistics you cite are now a lot of hooey. They were blown out of the water last Tuesday.

Why do you say that ? The statistics include a number of wars and upheavals (WWI, WWII, Vietnam, Korea, Gulf, etc.).

In WWI and the Korean, Vietnam, and Gulf Wars, the US was not attacked on its own soil. In WWII, just about the only attack was on Pearl Harbor. Not to belittle that attack, but it killed only about half as many as died on Tuesday. I think we are much more likely to die by terrorism or attack now that the way has been paved.

But I agree that it will get worse before it gets better. I sure hope it doesn't happen, but next time will either be nuclear or biological - those two choices are the only way to top this.

We're in complete agreement on that.

phantomdiver

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Author: markr33 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 50610 of 744493
Subject: Re: How safe do you feel? Date: 9/17/2001 12:44 PM
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<<Why do you say that ? The statistics include a number of wars and upheavals (WWI, WWII, Vietnam, Korea, Gulf, etc.).>>

In WWI and the Korean, Vietnam, and Gulf Wars, the US was not attacked on its own soil. In WWII, just about the only attack was on Pearl Harbor. Not to belittle that attack, but it killed only about half as many as died on Tuesday. I think we are much more likely to die by terrorism or attack now that the way has been paved.


But if I happen to make it though this war, I still want to be able to retire someday. Therefore, I still need to pay attention to the safe withdrawal calculations.

<<But I agree that it will get worse before it gets better. I sure hope it doesn't happen, but next time will either be nuclear or biological - those two choices are the only way to top this.>>

We're in complete agreement on that.


And this is precisely the reason we shouldn't have ignored terrorism when it didn't affect us, and precisely the reason we need to act fast and decisively.

United we Stand !


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Author: imthekidd Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 50613 of 744493
Subject: Re: How safe do you feel? Date: 9/17/2001 12:50 PM
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How safe do I feel? I believe everything happens for a reason, in God's time and in God's way. So if it is my time to go, so be it.

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Author: phantomdiver Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 50616 of 744493
Subject: Re: How safe do you feel? Date: 9/17/2001 12:55 PM
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How safe do I feel? I believe everything happens for a reason, in God's time and in God's way. So if it is my time to go, so be it.

I'm a practicing Christian, and I agree with what you say, but . . .

I'm afraid of lingering pain and disease.

I'm afraid that my husband and children may be deprived of my help and company when they need me most.

If all six in my immediate family were to die instantly, that would be a very different situation and much easier to contemplate. But I don't think that's going to happen.

phantomdiver

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Author: EditorialWe Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 50622 of 744493
Subject: Re: How safe do you feel? Date: 9/17/2001 1:05 PM
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No doubt we all would benefit from learning more about the traditions of our fellow Americans. While we certainly want to go after the perpetrators of Tuesday's attacks, we don't want to be gulity of rounding up all the usual suspects in the search for the guilty.

I was glad to see a more aggressive reponse on the part of the Bush administration to try and address the anti-Muslim harassment and violence that has been taking place:


http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010917/ts/attack_usa_rights_dc_3.html

Bush will be meeting with Muslim leaders today about ways to combat the violence, and a nationwide hotline is being set up to log complaints of harassment and attacks. Over the weekend a Sikh man and a Pakistani man were shot and killed, and it seems these may have been hate crimes.

While I have some difficulty wth the legal concept of 'hate crimes,' I think we need to condemn these actions now more than ever.

EditorialWe


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Author: inparadise Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 50651 of 744493
Subject: Re: How safe do you feel? Date: 9/17/2001 4:53 PM
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but I think it is wrong to lie to the 7th and 8th graders or
to completely shield your 6 year old from the reality.


There comes a point where you have to reach towards normalcy again. I felt no need to disclose to my students the personal fear I felt. All day Tuesday, we cried with each other and watched the news. We discussed the parallels to Pearl Harbor, and discussed the possibility of war. We feared for those we know that were in harms way, which was a surprisingly large amount given the distance. Not wanting to show personal weakness was not the motivator behind my shielding my feelings, keeping control of the class and going on with our lessons was.

The fear that they were questioning was as to whether or not we would be bombed. Given the industry on this island, that is a real fear, but given the ignorance of most of the mainland regarding our status as a US territory, that fear is somewhat tempered. The tempering is what I stressed. It is plausable, and they believed it.

As to my boys, as I mentioned in my post, I had to tell them about the bombing. I needed to explain why Mommy had to be stopped by the armed officer and show her badge in order to get home. I told them that there were men with so much hate in their hearts who tried their best to hurt the United States by stealing a plane and driving it into buildings on the mainland. I asked them to pray for those hurt by the men with the hate in their hearts, and to pray for the men who hate so that their hearts can heal and they no longer hate. As a parent, I made the decision not to go more into detail than that. They don't need to grow up any faster than they already are. Some things are simply beyond the comprehension of a young child, particularly one who has been well loved.

But these kids see buildings crumbling as a regular part of life. They kill people daily in their hand held games. We personally don't let our kids watch violent movies with all the ritzy special effects, or play those games, but all my 7th and 8th graders get to see them. Watching the buildings topple on the TV felt like a movie special effect. It was hard as an adult to connect to reality through the shock of the scene. I really don't know how much even they understood that the scene we saw represented death of people: fathers and moms, sons and daughters. I encouraged the parents I saw to talk to their children about the events of the past week, but I was extremely grateful that the teachers of my boys left that up to me.

Not everything is to be taught in school.

InParadise

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Author: golfwaymore Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 50661 of 744493
Subject: Re: How safe do you feel? Date: 9/17/2001 6:35 PM
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Personally, if there's a nuclear attack, intercst will be running towards the blast, not away from it.

It couldnt be any worse than a few summer days in Houston could it? <grin>

Golfwaymore

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Author: intercst Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 50664 of 744493
Subject: Re: How safe do you feel? Date: 9/17/2001 6:43 PM
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golfwaymore writes,

<<<<Personally, if there's a nuclear attack, intercst will be running towards the blast, not away from it. >>>>

It couldnt be any worse than a few summer days in Houston could it? <grin>


Hey, good one!

It's good to see that at least a few folks have maintained their sense of humor.

intercst


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Author: reader99 Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 51047 of 744493
Subject: Re: How safe do you feel? Date: 9/20/2001 3:00 PM
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Interesting topic. Even before the attack, I was bemused by how caually we shrug off the very real and statistically significant chance of being killed or permanently maimed in a car accident. I suppose the present convenience of zipping around in one's car outweighs the fear of potential damage.

As to terrorism, I am very frightened. And I think not rationally. I live nowhere near any high-profile goevernment or financial locations. I am 30 miles from a Navy base, but terrorists seem to prefer civilian targets. I shop on the internet and rarely if ever attend any kind of mass event like a concert.

I'm probably as safe now as I was 2 weeks ago, but my subconcious doesn't think so.



Reader99
Shopping to medicate strong emotions

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Author: cmorford Three stars, 500 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 51405 of 744493
Subject: Re: How safe do you feel? Date: 9/24/2001 7:52 AM
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fleg9bo said: I doubt that many of us have even seen a drive-by shooting.

Just for the record, I have...And I was in the line of fire also...

Chuck


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Author: cosmos284 Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 51407 of 744493
Subject: Re: How safe do you feel? Date: 9/24/2001 8:26 AM
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I doubt that very many of us hang out in places where the majority of murders occur in this country.

I live within blocks of frequent murders. My morning bus commute takes me by the scene of murders about once a year.

I doubt that many of us have even seen a drive-by shooting.

No, thank goodness, I haven't. I did have someone stand in my yard and shoot at the drug house across the street, though. I always thought I was fairly safe living across the street from the nasty people, if someone drove by and shot, they'd be aiming across the street.

Things have improved in my immediate neighborhood in the last two years. If they hadn't, I would have forsaken LBMM and moved for my own sanity.

Cosmos

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Author: cmorford Three stars, 500 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 51408 of 744493
Subject: Re: How safe do you feel? Date: 9/24/2001 8:30 AM
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Daryll40 said: knives shouldn't be allowed on people using mass transit and/or in other situations with large numbers of people in crowded places.

Well, there go all the steak houses...

Not to mention the Japanese steak houses...Have you seen the way they throw that knife around?

We could all be killed!

Chuck



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