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I can think of little good that comes from drinking alcohol.

Clearly, you have a very limited imagination.
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Tragedy in Kentucky:
"Thousands of whiskey barrels crashed into a massive heap Friday when a large section of a decades-old storage warehouse collapsed at a distillery in the heart of Kentucky bourbon country."

---------------


People say this like it's a bad thing.

Not to me. Alcohol is evil and ruins people's lives. 10% of people who drink alcohol go on to become full blown alcoholics. No telling how many people's lives have been ruined by alcohol. No telling how many innocent people have been killed by drunk drivers. No telling how many families have been torn asunder by alcohol.

Alcohol is a central nervous system depressant and the first part of the brain it suppresses is the part that controls inhibitions. That is why people make stupid choices like driving drunk and having unprotected sex while under the influence of alcohol. It is also why for a mean drunk the more they drink the meaner they get.

Alcohol also suppresses the p53 cancer suppressor gene and that is why people who drink alcohol also have a higher incidence of liver, kidney, pancreatic, and breast cancer when they are drinkers of alcohol.

And of course alcohol causes cirrhosis of the liver. One of our neighbors across the street died of alcoholism and cirrhosis about a year ago. He drank himself to death.

So for I hope every one of the barrels of whiskey split open and flowed down the drain. Alcohol is nasty stuff and ruins people's lives. I can think of little good that comes from drinking alcohol.

Art
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<<Alcohol is evil and ruins people's lives. 10% of people who drink alcohol go on to become full blown alcoholics. >>


This is the basic issue that caused me to decide as a teenager never to use alcohol.

That was easy for me though, since as a hugely introverted person, I never had "friends" pressure me to become a user.


Another way of looking at this is as Alcoholics Annonymous likes to say ---- that people don't need alcohol in order to lead a good life.

Personally I have no objection if other fools want to take the chance of being an alcohol user and accept all the risks that go along with that, as outlined by Art.


On the other hand, there is the wisdom of Seinfeld, who said that the most attractive 2% or 5% of the population could attract all the sexual partners they might want ---- "for the rest, there's alcohol." Perhaps that means that alcohol should be added to Art's list of problem creators by causing a lot of poorly "conceived" marriages and the divorces that often follow.




Seattle Pioneer
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OK, you’ve posted a story about whisky. We’re now waiting stories about cigarettes and wild, wild women.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=v4rY52SWklc

CLF
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I can think of little good that comes from drinking alcohol.

Clearly, you have a very limited imagination.
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OK, you’ve posted a story about whisky. We’re now waiting stories about cigarettes and wild, wild women.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=v4rY52SWklc

CLF


Lard forbid a warehouse of wild, wild women burn!

CNC
... OK if the cigarette warehouse burns.
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I've been sober for 30 yrs. and still go to meetings. But I do know there are folks out there who can drink moderately when they do drink and some can take it or leave it. It's all good, we're all different.

I know the ruin that alcohol and drugs and all kinds of smoking products that can be inhaled or eaten. I do have concerns about legalizing drugs. I know I didn't stop at marijuana, there was more to explore. :)

However, I do have a sense of humor and the fun in these songs and I love Buck Owens and other country singers....the genre is full of booze, women and heartbreak.

I love singing and strumming along with Margaritaville and other such songs.

Lighten up!

Rule 62 in AA-don't take yourself too dang seriously!

Lucky Dog
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"I've been sober for 30 yrs. and still go to meetings. But I do know there are folks out there who can drink moderately when they do drink and some can take it or leave it. It's all good, we're all different." - Luckydog
----------------------


If you never drink alcohol you'll never be an alcoholic even though 10% of people who do drink alcohol become physically addicted to alcohol. The only way to get hooked on alcohol is to drink it. Some alcoholics are so primed to become alcoholics they can become addicted after the first drink.

It's a genetics thing. Some folks got the genes to become alcoholics and some don't but I know one thing... if you never drink alcohol you won't become an alcoholic. But if you are genetically predisposed to become an alcoholic it is possible to become addicted after the first drink.

Art
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<<If you never drink alcohol you'll never be an alcoholic >>


Yep. That was my reason for choosing never to drink alcohol as a youth.



I've found that you don't need to drink alcohol to have a good life, something a lot of alcoholics learn only after a huge amount of trouble in life.



Seattle Pioneer
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The only way to get hooked on alcohol is to drink it.

I’m still looking for a 12 Step program for people who are hooked on phonics.

CLF
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went to college in NY state when drinking age there was 18. Most of freshman class partook of that age limit, including tele.

Had a few beers but they cost money. On occasion I would go to the Knotty Pine tavern - a 15 minute walk from the dorm with some friends and get a pizza...wash it down with a 8 oz beer than was like 25c. One.

A few times a year there was an event where my service fraternity served beer - the folks had to pay. We 'sampled' the beer on occasion to make sure it was good.

If you wanted to go to a music venue in downtown.....most the places that kids visited (clubs essentially) sold beer at 50c a can. I could nurse one of them for 3 hours.. Didn't have a lot of money to blow back then. Made 85c to 1.10/hour at part time job over 3 years.....usually 6-7 hours a week and that had to buy snacks and Sat night dinner plus anything else I needed.

When I went off to work, did have a beer or two at clubs.....but that was it - one or two......had to drive to and from them. Never drank at home.

After a few years, just lost the desire to even do that, but if you went to a music venue to dance or listen....you had to buy one or two for 'cover charge'. One could last me all night.

Don't think I've had a drink or beer in last 20 years now......and never was a wine drinker.


t.
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telegraph writes,

Had a few beers but they cost money. On occasion I would go to the Knotty Pine tavern - a 15 minute walk from the dorm with some friends and get a pizza...wash it down with a 8 oz beer than was like 25c. One.

</snip>


Wednesday's were 10 cent beer nights in the campus pub in the basement of my dorm -- almost too cheap to meter.

intercst
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intercst:"Wednesday's were 10 cent beer nights in the campus pub in the basement of my dorm -- almost too cheap to meter."

Yep, and back then, gas got down to 27.9/gal. I could fill up the VW and it would last a month......for a buck or so. If we did go over to the 'surplus store' 15 miles away, some of the passengers would kick in a nickel for gas money....... my VW got about 25 mpg then which was good gas mileage. Most cars got 11-13mpg. Had a friend who had a GTO last year in school. He got about 4-6 mpg if he stomped on it a lot.

The year after I graduated, the new 'student union' with a Ratskeller opened ....... you could buy beer 'on campus'. Don't know what they charged. Wasn't around.

Back then I was a Pepsi drinker. Could put away a 26oz bottle easily with a half pizza.


t.
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If you never drink alcohol you'll never be an alcoholic. . .

if you never eat food you'll never get fat . . . or live very long.

if you never get in a car you'll never be injured in an auto accident . . . or travel very far from home.
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...wash it down with a 8 oz beer than was like 25c...

#MAGA but the real drinker in the 1970s said just cover this 4 foot diameter table with beer. No serious drinker bought beer by the glass if there were a couple friends there. You drink your way from the outside in. Hung over for the better part of four years everything in moderation.

1. Arizona State University Tempe, Arizona, United States of America
https://www.ranker.com/list/top-100-party-colleges/daveianna...

I can see that although I'm not sure how official these rankings are.

Ranked by people claiming to be women
University of FloridaGainesville, Florida, United States of America

Men
University of TennesseeKnoxville, Tennessee, United States of America

ALCOHOL’S DAMAGING EFFECTS ON THE BRAIN
Difficulty walking, blurred vision, slurred speech, slowed reaction times, impaired memory: Clearly, alcohol affects the brain
https://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/aa63/aa63.Htm

I can see that. All the more odd Trump a teetotaler. Hey if it's not alcohol it's defective genes or.....
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Ahh yes. Another mark of our superior college class is their bragging about their gross inebriation during periods of alleged education.


Drunken men get in fights, shoot each other and walk off of balconies, and drunken women consent to having sex with strangers and then complain of being raped when they sober up and can't remember the consent part.


Really, it's pathetic.


Personally, I have nothing against alcohol use in moderation for those who wish to indulge. But getting falling down drunk repeatedly is an absurd and dangerous activity in which to indulge.




Seattle Pioneer
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"Don't think I've had a drink or beer in last 20 years now......and never was a wine drinker." - tele


#Metoo. Your story sounds a lot like mine. I never really liked it. I drank a few to try and fit in. My wife was a member of several professional organizations and I went to a few meetings and banquets with her where they had open bars. I'd drink a beer so I wouldn't look like a complete nerd but then eventually matured enough to not even do that so...it has probably also been a couple of decades since I've had a drink with alcohol in it.

The truth is that deep down inside I have a strong dislike of alcohol and see little good in it. I was around a lot of alcoholics growing up and saw how it ruined lives and made people's lives difficult.

Art
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"Drunken men get in fights, shoot each other and walk off of balconies, and drunken women consent to having sex with strangers and then complain of being raped when they sober up and can't remember the consent part." - Seattle Pioneer


Alcohol is a central nervous system depressant and the first part of the brain that it suppresses is the part that controls inhibitions which is why people who drink alcohol often make stupid choices like driving drunk and/or having sex without using protection. Then when they get pulled over by a police officer and they are drunk they are liable to do something stupid like resisting arrest or striking the officer. I don't know why we are surprised when they do something stupid? I am more amazed when drunks are able to function even though they are inebriated.

Art
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<<"Drunken men get in fights, shoot each other and walk off of balconies, and drunken women consent to having sex with strangers and then complain of being raped when they sober up and can't remember the consent part." - Seattle Pioneer


Alcohol is a central nervous system depressant and the first part of the brain that it suppresses is the part that controls inhibitions which is why people who drink alcohol often make stupid choices like driving drunk and/or having sex without using protection. Then when they get pulled over by a police officer and they are drunk they are liable to do something stupid like resisting arrest or striking the officer. I don't know why we are surprised when they do something stupid? I am more amazed when drunks are able to function even though they are inebriated.

Art>>


In short, the saying that someone is "stupid with drink" is frequently literally true.


That's another reason I chose not to drink. I didn't think I could afford to give away any IQ points.

And as a person with a temper, I figure that that can cause enough problems by itself. A temper + alcohol and people wind up in jail. A temper + alcohol + a gun and you may wind up in prison for an extended period of time.

I've never owned a firearm, either.



Seattle Pioneer
Tends to be risk averse
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The pleasure center in the brain is triggered by all sorts of things and this has been proven with MRI imaging:food, sex, drugs, gambling, computer gaming, porn, social media usage, tv watching,.....whatever gives one pleasure can easily cross over into an addiction.....doing something for long periods of times and ignoring the consequences of loss of relationships/time with family, loss of health, loss of job, loss of money. All these things can be used to excess shutting out everything else in life......there is no balance of work,family,health, relaxation.....it's all on pleasure seeking to feed that internal need for more of it, just like the rats pressing the peddle for more kibble until they explode.


My goodness this thread has confirmed the thing about message boards, light message turned into a discussion of the awfulness of things.

I still say lighten up! :)

Happy Sunday!
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Alcohol is a central nervous system depressant....

So’s a complete lack of a sense of humor. It’ll depress your own central nervous system and the central nervous system of any poor schmuck within earshot.

The world’s greatest pie fight. I don’t care who you are, that’s funny.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bWmH5FFgX44

CLF
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So for I hope every one of the barrels of whiskey split open and flowed down the drain. Alcohol is nasty stuff and ruins people's lives. I can think of little good that comes from drinking alcohol.

Alcohol is the third leading preventable cause of death. The number two is poor diet and physical inactivity.

Moderate consumption can have health benefits. It is estimated that 26,000 deaths were averted in 2005 because of reductions in ischemic heart disease, ischemic stroke, and diabetes from the benefits attributed to moderate alcohol consumption.

PSU
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<<Moderate consumption can have health benefits. It is estimated that 26,000 deaths were averted in 2005 because of reductions in ischemic heart disease, ischemic stroke, and diabetes from the benefits attributed to moderate alcohol consumption.

PSU>>


Alcohol is just liquid carbohydrates.

As such, it contributes calories to overweight and helping to cause diabetes.

And it has a lot of other effects that are negative as far as diabeted is concerned:

https://www.healthline.com/health/type-2-diabetes/facts-diab...



I suspect that if 26,000 deaths were prevented due to one variety of heart disease, perhaps 100,000 deaths or more were CAUSED by alcohol consumption.


Of course, most alcoholics drink in moderation. Just ask them!


I continue to suggest that people don't need to drink alcohol in order to live a good life.




Seattle Pioneer
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Alcohol is just liquid carbohydrates.

As such, it contributes calories to overweight and helping to cause diabetes.


Moderate consumption of alcohol is 14 grams of alcohol which equates to about one beer, 5 oz of wine or one shot of hard liqueur. One serving of "light beer" has less than 100 calories and one serving of "regular" beer is usually less than 150 calories.

If someone is obese enough to get diabetes, it wasn't due to the one serving of beer. It was due to the large plate of wings, 1/2 burger or large plate of fries that they had with the beer.

PSU
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I continue to suggest that people don't need to drink alcohol in order to live a good life.

I never made that suggestion. But an occasional beer isn't going to kill you either.

PSU
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<<If someone is obese enough to get diabetes, it wasn't due to the one serving of beer. It was due to the large plate of wings, 1/2 burger or large plate of fries that they had with the beer.

PSU>>



As usual, you continue to underestimate the hazards of alcohol consumption.


And you ignore my remark that most alcoholics will report that they are moderate users of alcohol.


As I've said, I really don't care if people drink. And if you drink, obviously consuming alcohol in moderation is to be preferred.


But I venture to suppose that pretty much 100% of alcoholics began by drinking in "moderation." And for plenty of people drinking.

And plenty of people who drink frequently get a substantial part of the calories they don't need from alcohol. "beer belly" are too words that aren't put next to each other by coincidence.


I again repeat that you don't have to drink alcohol to live a good life.




Seattle Pioneer
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<<I continue to suggest that people don't need to drink alcohol in order to live a good life.

I never made that suggestion. But an occasional beer isn't going to kill you either.

PSU>>


Well then ---- we agree.


Unfortunately, for quite a few people, that occasional beer becomes a daily occurrence, and then expands to be several beers taken daily. Of course, this is like a lot of bad habits that people have, and bad habits I have.

Personally, I've never been good about getting rid of my bad habits. I was somewhat choosy about what bad habits I took up.



Seattle Pioneer
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As usual, you continue to underestimate the hazards of alcohol consumption.

I don't underestimate the hazards at all. My brother died from cirrhosis of the liver.

PSU
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<<As usual, you continue to underestimate the hazards of alcohol consumption.

I don't underestimate the hazards at all. My brother died from cirrhosis of the liver.

PSU>>


So how did he describe his alcohol consumption?


Most people with bad habits have a variety of ways to excuse and ignore their bad, harmful or dangerous behaviors ---and I don't except myself. One way for people to face up to a problem is to confront them with an unvarnished description of the dangers and harm they are courting. Platitudes and excuses such as vague "moderate" drinking are how bad behaviors are often extenuated.


I recall an alcoholic who would recount episodes from his drinking days, as a way of reminding himself why he didn't drink. One story he told me recounted his wife frantically shaking him awake asking his WHAT HAD HAPPENED!

Of course, he remembered nothing happening. His wife took him to the garage where a stop sign was planted in the radiator of his car!



Seattle Pioneer
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So how did he describe his alcohol consumption?

Most people with bad habits have a variety of ways to excuse and ignore their bad, harmful or dangerous behaviors ---and I don't except myself. One way for people to face up to a problem is to confront them with an unvarnished description of the dangers and harm they are courting. Platitudes and excuses such as vague "moderate" drinking are how bad behaviors are often extenuated.


He didn't really describe it. He was addicted to opiates and alcohol. He was in and out of rehab many times. I would likely attribute his addictions due to a work-place accident when he was young when he suffered a severe neck injury. He was also bipolar.

PSU
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I forgot to add - are you going to take your "as usual" comment back? To me, as usual, means you think I've made multiple posts in the past that you think underestimates the hazards. I don't underestimate the hazards. I'm well aware of them but that doesn't stop me from having the occasional drink. I may have at most 2 beers per month.

PSU
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Art: So for I hope every one of the barrels of whiskey split open and flowed down the drain. Alcohol is nasty stuff and ruins people's lives. I can think of little good that comes from drinking alcohol.

PSU: Alcohol is the third leading preventable cause of death. The number two is poor diet and physical inactivity.

Moderate consumption can have health benefits. It is estimated that 26,000 deaths were averted in 2005 because of reductions in ischemic heart disease, ischemic stroke, and diabetes from the benefits attributed to moderate alcohol consumption.

I once saw a remarkable quote attributed (I believe) to Calvin Coolidge on the subject of alcohol. It went something like this: "If by alcohol, you mean the enhancer of a pleasant evening and bonding of friendships, then I endorse it. If you mean the destroyer of health and marriage and cause of insanity, then with every fiber of my being I oppose it."

I can't find the quote anywhere. Anyone else recall it?

CNC
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<<I forgot to add - are you going to take your "as usual" comment back? To me, as usual, means you think I've made multiple posts in the past that you think underestimates the hazards. I don't underestimate the hazards. I'm well aware of them but that doesn't stop me from having the occasional drink. I may have at most 2 beers per month.

PSU>>


It sounds as though you don't underestimate the hazards, but you use the excuses that those with problems frequently use to excuse and extenuate dangerous and self destructive behavior.

For example, saying that "moderate alcohol consumption" may be beneficial is vague, and easily turned into an excuse for immoderate alcohol consumption.

That's a lot different than saying you consume 2 beers/month. At least that was my reaction to using that term.



Seattle Pioneer
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It sounds as though you don't underestimate the hazards, but you use the excuses that those with problems frequently use to excuse and extenuate dangerous and self destructive behavior.

I don't blame objects for self destructive behavior. That lies with the user, not the object.

For example, saying that "moderate alcohol consumption" may be beneficial is vague, and easily turned into an excuse for immoderate alcohol consumption.

It was from the National Institutes of Health.

https://www.niaaa.nih.gov/alcohol-health/overview-alcohol-co...
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Who woulda thunk it? I thought this was just a humorous story about the "tragedy" of broken whiskey barrels. Then somehow it turned into an "evils" of alcohol thread.

There is a wide distribution on how much alcohol Americans consume. There is also a wide distribution on how alcohol impacts people and their health.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/09/25/think...

Trump, of course, is a teatotaler. I think much of his christo-fascist base preaches abstinence from alcohol as well. Meanwhile, the wealthy capitalists that they worship tend to consume significant amounts of alcohol. I know my experiences with corporate executives often seemed to involve watching them consume massive quantities of straight, hard liquor. In fact, I had the experience more than once of a corporate officer trying to recruit me and taking me to one of those three-martini lunches that was really more like 4 or 5.

My grandfather on my mother's side was an alcoholic. He had a red wagon that he would pull behind him to go downtown to his favorite tavern. You knew if he was inside because the wagon would be parked out front. He would drink until he was unable to walk - often passed out. Then the bar owner would call his home and someone (apparently often my mother when she was still living at home) would walk downtown, put him in the wagon, and role him home to sleep it off. He was also mean when he was drunk.

My mother was a teatotaler - not just a teatotaler, but a fanatic teatotaler. I remember as a kid that my mother would not allow us to have a red wagon. She hated that red wagon in a way that was not rational. When I was very young I remember passing the Ace Hardware store with her and seeing this new red wagon with wood rails on the side. For some reason, I fell in love with it immediately and while my mother was inside the dress shop next door, I climbed into the wagon on display and began to pretend I was coasting down a hill in it. When my mother came out, she became hysterical grabbing me and yanking me out of the wagon. She was crying and screaming at the same time. At the time I thought it was simply because I wasn't supposed to be touching the merchandise. I also remember when my grandfather died that she would not allow us to take his red wagon home. Instead we were instructed to destroy it and leave it in the trash.

So I have some understanding of people who become fanatics about alcohol consumption. There is some fraction of the population that is susceptible to becoming an alcoholic and all the bad behavior and harm that goes with that. But a large majority of adults in America (~73%) do drink alcohol and an even larger number (~86%) have tried alcohol. The vast majority of these people do not pull a red wagon down the street to the tavern so that they can drink themselves to oblivion and embarrass their daughters.

Now, the teatotalers have a great opportunity to convince a majority of Americans to never drink again. I hope someone follows up on this. I would gladly give up further alcohol consumption (even my single malt scotch collection) for this: Majority of Americans would give up alcohol to see Donald Trump impeached, finds survey

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-tru...
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I don't think I am a alcoholic. Maybe there is an addictive personality that I am missing. I have, however been a heavy drinker. My physician was worried about my alcohol consumption. (I never tried to hide it.) I was buying the Two Buck Chuck wine a case at a time (lasted a week), then two cased. I drank alone. Then one night I fell down on my way to bed and hit my head on a door. A gash in my ear. The Countess wanted me to go the ER to get it stitched. I refused. She called 911, and the ER guy persuaded me to go. I barfed in the parking lot. Got stitches in my ear. Continued my drinking. Then one night I passed out in the bathroom. Fell in the bath tub. She got me to bed. But the next morning I had no memory of falling. She (kindly) related the situation to me. Now it got my attention. I stopped drinking. And I stayed stopped, except I allowed a cocktail if we went out to dinner. Or a glass of wine if we had guests for dinner. My physician was impressed.

I decided I could control my drinking. So I allowed myself to keep a bottle of Scotch, and monitored it - it became one drink a day. At this time I no longer keep booze in the house. If I don't have any, I can't drink it. I still take a cocktail or wine if we eat out. So far, I say I drink in moderation. But I know not to keep it in the house. (I say I have good will power, but I don't have any won't power.)

CNC
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"I once saw a remarkable quote attributed (I believe) to Calvin Coolidge on the subject of alcohol. It went something like this: "If by alcohol, you mean the enhancer of a pleasant evening and bonding of friendships, then I endorse it. If you mean the destroyer of health and marriage and cause of insanity, then with every fiber of my being I oppose it." - CNC


People defending alcohol consumption reminds me of the same mindset as people who defend Pitbull dogs. Yes there are some good Pitbull dogs but for me personally? I wouldn't take the chance of owning one. With my luck when I picked out a puppy it would be the one with crazy genes. The interesting thing about most pitbull attacks is the owner commenting "well she's never done anything like that before?" Of course not, if she had she would have been put down.

Pitbull dogs don't give any warning and neither does alcohol. People just wake up one morning and they are alcoholics. One day they are drinking socially and then they are hiding their bottles and drinking first thing in the morning when they wake up.

One moment you are a social drinker that drinks with friends and the next you've crashed your car into someone and killed a mother and her children. A large percentage of car accidents are attributed to alcohol. No one goes out intentionally to ruin people's lives but it happens all the time and it's because alcohol anesthetizes the part of the brain that controls inhibitions. It convinces you are fine and can drive home and then you end up murdering someone because someone has defended drinking alcohol and because of bias your brain has decided to believe the defenders rather than someone like me who only sees the evil that alcohol causes.

That is the way our brain works. It selects information that fits with our formerly preconceived notions about the way things are. It lets in the information that supports what we already believe.

"Confirmation bias, also called confirmatory bias or myside bias,[Note 1] is the tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information in a way that confirms one's preexisting beliefs or hypotheses."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

Art
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"For example, saying that "moderate alcohol consumption" may be beneficial is vague, and easily turned into an excuse for immoderate alcohol consumption." - Seattle Pioneer


I suppose ever alcoholic intended to be a "moderate drinker" but that wasn't the way it turned out for them.

In my life growing up I saw plenty of alcoholics and how it ruined people's lives so in my brain I have a bias towards alcohol. No amount of reading about how good drinking alcohol is going to change my mind.

Art
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"I decided I could control my drinking. So I allowed myself to keep a bottle of Scotch, and monitored it - it became one drink a day. At this time I no longer keep booze in the house. If I don't have any, I can't drink it. I still take a cocktail or wine if we eat out. So far, I say I drink in moderation. But I know not to keep it in the house. (I say I have good will power, but I don't have any won't power.)" - CNC


My brother drinks alcohol and is not an alcoholic. He can control it. He only drinks moderately. He was lucky and didn't get the alcoholic gene. It has something to do with receptors in the brain and how the body processes alcohol. I've read that around 10% of people who drink alcohol go on to become alcoholics. When a young kid takes that first drink they don't know if they are going to be one of the 90% who can drink moderately and control their drinking or one of the 10% who end up an alcoholic.

I drank a little bit, I guess you could call it peer pressure, but I never really liked the stuff. I was just trying to fit in. I wanted to be accepted. Then one day I decided that drinking just because I wanted to look cool was a stupid reason to drink alcohol and don't even pretend anymore. I think beer tastes horrible and would way rather drink diet Coke than wine. Wine tastes like spoiled grape juice to me. I don't get why people think it tastes good. Ugh!

Art
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I thought this was just a humorous story about the “tragedy” of broken whiskey barrels. Then somehow it turned into an “evils” of alcohol thread.

Did you notice that the people who turned it into morality play are also the same people suffer from a complete lack of a sense of humor? At least on this board, there is absolutely no overlap. It’s a 1:1 ratio. Got a sense of humor? You can laugh at the story and at the same time acknowledge that there are problems with alcohol consumption. No sense of humor, and it’s outright condemnation regardless of circumstances with no acknowledgement that it’s not a black and white issue.

My wife likes Jack Daniel’s, while I prefer a single malt Scotch. A bottle (750 ml size) of our favorites will last a year or more. I’ll have an occasional beer, maybe one in a month. My wife doesn’t like the stuff. In the absence of company, a six pack will last about half a year, give or take. I still have 1/2 a bottle of 15 year old Dalwhinnie we picked up when we visited the distillery in 2015.

The guys who missed the humor remind of the characters Deacon Mushrat and Mole in the old “Pogo” comic strip.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pogo_(comic_strip)

Away, away with rum by gum:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QyZI-y72T2M

CLF
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Art: I think beer tastes horrible and would way rather drink diet Coke than wine.

Beer is an acquired taste, because it is bitter. The hops makes it bitter. Lots of folks don't like bitter. The Countess does not like beer at all. She also has issues with coffee - it is bitter.

OTOH, some people like bitter melon. (They mostly seem to be of the Chinese persuasion.) Bitter melon with beef is delicious - if you like bitter.

Some people don't seem to notice the bitter in beer, and like it right away.

Diet coke (or any diet drink except water) give me headaches. I never touch the stuff.

CNC
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"In my life growing up I saw plenty of alcoholics and how it ruined people's lives so in my brain I have a bias towards alcohol. No amount of reading about how good drinking alcohol is going to change my mind."

At my college you could drink at 18....everything...in NY state

Most of the kids there - freshman year - had a few beers. They were cheap and if you went out to places where college kids hung out, they'd serve beer inexpensively - for small portions.

One guy one dorm over went off the deep end.......started drinking, had a bottle in his dorm room. He lasted another year then flunked out.

Freshman couldn't have cars back then so no one drove drunk....and it was cold all winter.

Once or twice tele had a few beers too many - usually when they were free......and that was enough to convince me that over doing things wasn't fun........might have barfed once or twice too....... so after that, just had one which I could nurse for hours. That went on for another 10 years, then just started having 'none'.

My parents seldom drank....maybe when a bunch of relatives came up to work on the summer house they men would go through a bunch of beers while they were working hard building the summer place for a few hours....then sit around for the hot dogs and hamburger dinner cooked on the outdoor grill with firewood..... and maybe another brewski or two - but that was it. If they had a adult type party they might serve a few drinks.... maybe New Years and such. Egg Nog with a zapper at xmas.....

Saw others drink too much and saw others high on pot - ruining their lives.

t.
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<<Health Benefits of Moderate Alcohol Consumption:
Moderate alcohol consumption, according to the 2015–2020 Dietary Guidelines for Americans, is up to 1 drink per day for women and up to 2 drinks per day for men.33>>


I see they defined what they meant by "moderate alcohol consumption, which you didn't do.


I'd suppose that most acoholics consider their drinking to be "moderate."


I suggest that that vagueness is an invitation to a lot of trouble. If you'd defined what you meant I suspect we could have avoided disagreement.



Seattle Pioneer
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<< At this time I no longer keep booze in the house. If I don't have any, I can't drink it.>>


This is similar to my relationship with potato chips.....




Seattle Pioneer
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<<. I think beer tastes horrible and would way rather drink diet Coke than wine. Wine tastes like spoiled grape juice to me. I don't get why people think it tastes good. Ugh! >>


Heh, heh! I like my soda pop and never learned to like the taste of beer or wine.


On the other hand, the taste of Cola drinks is really not very good --- I drink it out of habit and because I'm used to doing it ----it's a habit.


Sodas and fruit juices aren't good for me, but they are one of the bad habits I continue doing. I've increased my consumption of plain water and that's probably reduced my consumption of soda and juices, although I would profit from doing a lot more.


Still, I think I'm better off with a soda habit than a beer habit.




Seattle Pioneer
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Mike: The guys who missed the humor remind of the characters Deacon Mushrat and Mole in the old “Pogo” comic strip.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pogo_(comic_strip)


So, where are the Broadway musicals starring Pogo?

CNC
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Diet coke (or any diet drink except water) give me headaches.

I don't get headaches, but all diet sweeteners give me gas - especially aspartame which is the most common in diet soda drinks.
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So, where are the Broadway musicals starring Pogo?

Churchy could probably write that musical base on some his recent posts.

...

And the Tony award for best original lyrics goes to ...
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If a hit play can be made out of the life of that stick-in-the-mud Hamilton, imagine the oppotunity that exists for someone to do a play on Benjamin Franklin.



Seattle Pioneer
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sg: I don't get headaches, but all diet sweeteners give me gas - especially aspartame which is the most common in diet soda drinks.

At least I can keep my headaches to myself.

CNC
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"Still, I think I'm better off with a soda habit than a beer habit."


During college, I could easily finish off a 26 oz bottle of Pepsi with half a pizza for a Saturday night dinner...or even a whole pizza. It was cheap back then.

After graduating, moved to IL and had 2 room mates the first year. We would hit the local 7-11 type store when they had a sale on Pepsi - which happened every two months - 16oz cases of Pepsi....and would buy all we could - usually six cases - maybe 16 in a case - each and load up the kitchen cabinet. Then do it again the next day and the next day till the sale was over.

We'd come home from work and have a 16oz or two of them before/with dinner. We went through a lot of Pepsi....... and none of us gained any weight....being 21 or 22 years old and active.

Began to cut back later......

Still had a can of Diet COke...switched over - up to about 10 years ago, then gave up soft drinks - all the wrong stuff in them, plus now if I had the real stuff, I'd put on pounds.

Now it's water when I eat out - which is most nights.

Chinese Buffet tonight. $9.19 plus tip. Salmon, broccoli and shrimp and mushrooms, one spare rib, ....... second plate of some fruit....and large glass of water, no ice. Early bird deal M-TH before 5:30.

Now, if I have two beers, I get a rash on my arms......so I don'.....




t.
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I told you my story about booze experience. My SIL has an opposite story. She thinks she is an alcoholic. Goes to AA meetings. In the 30-odd years I have known her, she is definitely not an abuser. I asked her over coffee why she thinks she is alcoholic. "I have never known you do have more than a glass of wine. That is not alcoholic behavior." Her response was simply that I am not around her most of the time. Apparently she abuses when no one is around.

She is my polar opposite. She is attractive, gregarious, good dancer. I am plain, awkward with people (Hey! You see how I am in my posting), and my dancing is best left unmentioned. Two left feet. She tested out of high school. I have a PhD.

She has mostly attended small christian "Fellowships". I am an atheist. Of late our stories impinge on one another: She recently converted to Southern Baptist. I was raised in a Southern Baptist home, but rejected it for a number of reasons (Some of which have to do with obvious "errors" in Genesis and Exodus.) so I know a bit about Southern "Babdists". She isn't one. But is she says she is, fine. I wonder if they convinced her she is alcoholic, with her one glass of wine. She did once have a neighbor who accused her of over-drinking.

CNC
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So, where are the Broadway musicals starring Pogo?

The deal with Pogo is that it was a Cold War phenomenon. Unless you were there, it doesn’t translate to the current day despite having something to say about authoritarian currents in society in general. Even given that it was a cartoon, it was rather cerebral compared, for instance, to contemporaries like “Li’l Abner”.

Some things can be re-booted or translated to another medium, but not many (the “Pink Panther” remakes were atrocious). While Mel Brooks did a superb job turning “The Producers” into both a stage and movie musical, when push comes to shove, I give the nod to the original film with Gene Wilder, Zero Mostel, and Kenneth Mars. Nobody does hysterical like Wilder, nor pathetic, but loveable sleazebag like Mostel.

CLF
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"Beer is an acquired taste, because it is bitter. The hops makes it bitter. Lots of folks don't like bitter. The Countess does not like beer at all. She also has issues with coffee - it is bitter. OTOH, some people like bitter melon." - CNC


I am a supertaster. Stuff that tastes bitter tastes super bitter to me. Coffee tastes exactly like what it is, scorched beans. Horrible horrible stuff. I've tasted bitter melon before. I almost died. Bitter melon is god awful. I could hardly wash the taste out of my mouth. Beer has a horrible taste and when I tried to be cool and drink beer I chose the beer that I thought would have the mildest flavor, Coors Light. I tried Guinness beer once and it was especially horrible tasting. I am also not really a fan of tea. It also tastes bitter to me and I don't really get why so many people like it?

Art
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"I see they defined what they meant by "moderate alcohol consumption, which you didn't do." - Seattle pioneer


For alcoholics there is no such thing as moderate drinking. Once that switch gets turned on in their brain that is the end of "moderate drinking." That is ~ 10% of people who drink alcohol. For people who are genetically programmed to become alcoholics it is possible to become an alcoholic from the first drink.

So if you want to defend drinking alcohol you have to also have to defend drunk drivers, cirrhosis of the liver, liver, pancreatic, breast, and colon cancer. Alcohol interferes with the function of the p53 cancer suppressor gene.

Defend this,

"Every day, 29 people in the United States die in motor vehicle crashes that involve an alcohol-impaired driver.1 This is one death every 50 minutes.1 The annual cost of alcohol-related crashes totals more than $44 billion.2"

"In 2016, 10,497 people died in alcohol-impaired driving crashes, accounting for 28% of all traffic-related deaths in the United States.1"

"Of the 1,233 traffic deaths among children ages 0 to 14 years in 2016, 214 (17%) involved an alcohol-impaired driver.1"

https://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/impaired_driving/impa...

Art
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<<I am a supertaster. Stuff that tastes bitter tastes super bitter to me. Coffee tastes exactly like what it is, scorched beans. >>



I don't drink or like coffee, either.


I'm a hugely introverted person. I suspect a lot of things like drinking beer, wine, coffee. cigarettes are behavior learned from "friends." Never have done much socializing, I never "learned" these tastes and behaviors.

And never have missed them, either.


Many of the tastes I have, such as soda pop, I learned as a child.

Or perhaps I'm a supertaster like Art. I don't do bitter for example.



Seattle Pioneer
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<<"I see they defined what they meant by "moderate alcohol consumption, which you didn't do." - Seattle pioneer


For alcoholics there is no such thing as moderate drinking. Once that switch gets turned on in their brain that is the end of "moderate drinking." That is ~ 10% of people who drink alcohol. For people who are genetically programmed to become alcoholics it is possible to become an alcoholic from the first drink. >>

'


My father would break out the drinks for adult visitors. That was part of socializing for him. But he never drank absent that that I can recall.


My brother was a major wine salesman dealing with a lot of big accounts. He did a LOT of big deal socializing and I'm sure a lot of drinking in his day. He told me he used to keep $2000-3000 in cash to get bailed out of jail if an evening went bad. He learned to drink in the Navy as an enlisted man, drinking to get blotto.

He wound up learning about wines from driving all around Europe in the late 1960s. My favorite picture of that era was of his VW bug with two huge flagons of wine on the top of the car! (I wonder what a typical US Highway Patrolman would say about that.)

He went to college in Washington DC and worked at a Safeway store that sold loads of booze. He quickly became manager of the wine department and went on to become a wine salesman and sales manager.

He told me that my concern about being an alcoholic was groundless --- that our family didn't have the propensity to abuse alcohol that some do. I don't know if he could accurately judge such a thing, but he had A LOT of experience and talent for judging people.

In his later years he didn't like to drink wine or alcohol if he could avoid it, something of a handicap for a wine salesman.

But he was an Xpert on wines and the wine industry.



Seattle Pioneer
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It also tastes bitter to me and I don’t get why so many people like it?

You wanna know why? Because WE’RE NOT YOU.

How many times have you droned on about how people are different? Yet, no matter how many times that’s happened, your own words haven’t sunk in with you.

I love coffee, I like tea, and Guinness is the nectar of the Gods. I’ve been to the brewery in Dublin, done the tour and received my complimentary pint in the solarium overlooking Dublin. I like stouts and ales and Coors light is the equivalent of rancid rat urine.

Most people don’t get addicted to alcohol or drugs (or sex or gambling, either, for that matter). Gambling and sex addictions can also ruin relationships as well as the others. If you’ve got a problem with any or all of those, it’s your problem, not anybody else’s.

As Horton said, in “Paint Your Wagon”, “...until you’ve had a good cigar and a shot of whiskey, you’re missing the second and third best things in life”.

Now if you’ll excuse me, it’s time to brew the morning coffee.

CLF
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"Or perhaps I'm a supertaster like Art. I don't do bitter for example." - Seattle Pioneer


There are a few things that are a little bit bitter to me that I like, like olives and broccoli but then some things like coffee just taste horrible to me. I've tried diluting coffee with all kinds of things and even in the minutest amounts I can taste the coffee flavor and it never tastes good to me. At our bank they have a coffee pot and at the GFS store there is free coffee as you walk in and my wife always gets a cup of coffee but I just walk on by because it has no appeal for me whatsoever.

I had read that you could eat dandelion greens so one time I picked some and cooked them and tried to eat them and they were horribly bitter. Like it made me gag. I don't know how people can eat them they were so bitter. It took me a while to get that taste out of my mouth. Whew!

Art
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If you'd defined what you meant I suspect we could have avoided disagreement.

Then you failed to read my posts. I was more stringent in my definition which as 14 grams of alcohol which is one beer, not two beers. Go back and review the thread.

PSU
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but all diet sweeteners give me gas

And the problem is?

PSU
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And the problem is?

I could be wrong, but my guess is something like this:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MDVrmSEZEKg

CLF
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<<So for I hope every one of the barrels of whiskey split open and flowed down the drain. Alcohol is nasty stuff and ruins people's lives. I can think of little good that comes from drinking alcohol.

Alcohol is the third leading preventable cause of death. The number two is poor diet and physical inactivity.

Moderate consumption can have health benefits. It is estimated that 26,000 deaths were averted in 2005 because of reductions in ischemic heart disease, ischemic stroke, and diabetes from the benefits attributed to moderate alcohol consumption.

PSU>>



Well, this was your first post on the subject of "moderate drinking" which is vague.


Your next post gave laudably specific definitions of what that meant, but I guess I was on a roll at that point. I didn't give it the attention I should have.

Sorry.


Seattle Pioneer
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I could be wrong, but my guess is something like this:

One of my favorite movie scenes. I recall in my youth, network TV would censor the movie by deleting that scene.

PSU
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And the problem is?

Did I say it was a problem for me? I think it is mostly a problem for the people around me.
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"Well, this was your first post on the subject of "moderate drinking" which is vague. Your next post gave laudable specific definitions of what that meant, but I guess I was on a roll at that point. I didn't give it the attention I should have. Sorry." - Seattle Pioneer


Personally I don't think the health benefits of moderate drinking are enough to overcome the 10% chance of becoming an alcoholic, suppressing the inhibitory centers of the brain, suppressing the p53 cancer suppressor gene, cirrhosis of the liver, drunk driving, destruction of families, and the thousands of people killed by drunk drivers.

But that's just me. We tried prohibition and it was a miserable failure. I'm going to continue to preach and educate people on the dangers of alcohol though.

Tobacco, alcohol, and p53 overexpression in early colorectal neoplasia

"The p53 tumor suppressor gene is commonly mutated in colorectal cancer. While the effect of p53 mutations on colorectal cancer prognosis has been heavily studied, less is known about how epidemiologic risk factors relate to p53 status, particularly in early colorectal neoplasia prior to clinically invasive colorectal cancer (including adenomas, carcinoma in situ (CIS), and intramucosal carcinoma)."

https://bmccancer.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-24...

Art
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I remember reading an article years ago about the trends in Muslim countries - namely in the Middle East. The article noted the increasing cases of diabetes in those countries. One of the culprits that they found was soda, pop, whatever you call it. I'm on Ohio, so I say pop.

Being Muslims, they aren't to drink alcohol. The fall back is pop. Cirrhosis rates are low, but diabetes rates are high.

Perhaps we should all invest in Brita?


TMFEdyboom223
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