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Author: eatenbybears Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 1947664  
Subject: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/22/2013 1:25 PM
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Just had to say that

Read some articles this morning ..... Unbelievable BS

Thanks ...

Bears
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Author: ramsfanray Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861655 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/22/2013 1:29 PM
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What you believe is irrelevant to the facts. Either we do or we don't.

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Author: icono5 Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861656 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/22/2013 1:31 PM
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Good! You read some carefully designed, peer-reviewed scientific articles about the issue of anthropomorphic global warming. We'll eagerly await your citations and your synthesis.

Steve

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Author: WuLong Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861657 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/22/2013 1:31 PM
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It's difficult to say we don't contribute.
The amount of that contribution is difficult to determine.

Climate is an extremely complex system, and there is a lot we don't know.
Clearly, the Nobel-winning IPCC overstated its case.

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Author: PeterRabit Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861660 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/22/2013 1:51 PM
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I assume you believe that the Carbon Dioxide concentration in the atmosphere is increasing.

http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/ccgg/trends/

So you must believe one of the other (or both) of these statements:

1) Human activities are not the cause of the increasing CO2.

2) CO2 is not a greenhouse gas.

Which is it?

Peter

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Author: franchot Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861661 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/22/2013 1:58 PM
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Unbelievable BS

But the impact of this orthodoxy has been quite concrete. Are the state subsidies justified? Or a total waste of money? Matter of debate. Here's an example from Germany. Bear in mind that China is now the numero uno producer of solar panels. Which energy source is used to deliver those panels trans global? Here's a clue. It ain't solar:

In fact, all German solar energy systems combined produce less electricity than two nuclear power plants. And even that number is sugarcoated, because solar energy in a relatively cloudy country like Germany has to be backed up with reserve power plants. This leads to a costly, and basically unnecessary, dual structure. Figures indicating the peak performance of solar energy systems are easily misunderstood, a report by the German Physical Society says. "Essentially," the report concludes, "solar energy cannot replace any additional power plants."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRdtPaVaqYY

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/solar-subsidy-si...

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Author: TheDope1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861662 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/22/2013 2:04 PM
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It's difficult to say we don't contribute.
The amount of that contribution is difficult to determine.

Climate is an extremely complex system, and there is a lot we don't know.
Clearly, the Nobel-winning IPCC overstated its case.


This is the most sane post on global warming I've ever read on GW. The most important influencer on Earth's climate is the sun. Any study that doesn't point that out or correct for it is automatically bogus. Mankind does affect the planet, how could we not. The question is how much, how badly and what should be done about it? My problem is the rampant corruption and social engineering going on in the GW communities.

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Author: WuLong Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861697 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/22/2013 3:56 PM
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This is the most sane post on global warming I've ever read
Sanity it not a heavily rec'd quality ;)

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Author: Rightime Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861718 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/22/2013 6:16 PM
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I dont believe man causes Global Warming
Just had to say that

Read some articles this morning ..... Unbelievable BS




More People in the United States Believe in Angels than Believe in Evolution.

Just had to say that

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Author: JDCRex Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861750 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 2:23 AM
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MThe most important influencer on Earth's climate is the sun. Any study that doesn't point that out or correct for it is automatically bogus.

Oh, Jaysus Tapdancing Keeeerist.

Do you not think that climate scientists - you know, people who do this kind of thing for a living - take the fact that the sun warms things as a given? That pointing that out every time would be a little redundant? Kind of like a cookbook explaining the theory of boiling in a recipe for soft-boiled eggs.

There have been times in the Earth's history where there was no ice at all on either of the poles. None. This isn't some piece of suppressed obscurantism. No one is denying that the sun is a massive influence.

We are actually STILL in somewhat of an ice age that begun tens of million or so years ago. Evidence of this is that there is (still) ice on both the poles. We are in an interglacial period of this ice age, as opposed to the last glacial maximum seen about 10k years ago.

Now - I know that rugged individualists like you and your brave wingnut buddies like to live their lives on the geological scale. But I'm a simpering wimp - I tend to think in tiny time frames like - oh, I don't know - hundreds of years. You know - arbitrary numbers that contain human lifespans. THAT is what the debate is about - what the augmenting effect of human-displaced CO2 is in the short term. The question is: is the world going to be hotter than it otherwise would have been in the near-ish term? And the evidence overwhelmingly says yes. How much warmer and what can be done about it is - as you have pointed out - a big question.

But this isn't: the science is founded on basic physics - CO2 is a greenhouse gas. If it is put into the atmosphere by humankind it will have an effect. So will the variances of millions of years - but once again that's not what the frickin' debate is about.

My problem is the rampant corruption and social engineering going on in the GW communities.

Like what, exactly? Remember your reading comprehension problems with regards to stem cell matters - are you sure you should trust your prism of perception on something else that you march to accompanied by the beat of an ideological drum?

And, pray tell - any problem with the hacks and shills on the denialist side - or are they all beyond reproach?

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Author: salaryguru Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861751 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 2:54 AM
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Clearly, the Nobel-winning IPCC overstated its case.

based on what? Show a little scientific rigor rather than spout these assertions without basis.

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Author: TheDope1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861752 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 3:06 AM
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Now - I know that rugged individualists like you and your brave wingnut buddies like to live their lives on the geological scale. But I'm a simpering wimp - I tend to think in tiny time frames like - oh, I don't know - hundreds of years.

Then you probably shouldn't talk about climate change. Planetary time scales are on the order of thousands of years, not hundreds. What effing point are you even making? Go bother someone else.

BTW. Just for you:
http://www.gizmag.com/embryonic-stem-cells-replaced-blood-de...
There are ongoing moral and ethical battles concerning the farming and application of human embryonic stem cells in medical research and applications. Without judging any of the viewpoints represented in the fracas, it is clear that the stem cell world would be a friendlier place if the harvesting of embryonic stem cells were not necessary. Toward this goal, Johns Hopkins scientists have developed a reliable method to turn the clock back on blood cells, restoring them to a primitive stem cell state from which they can then develop into any other type of cell in the body.

You lose. I made this point many years ago only to have you melt down and stalk me over a period of a couple of years. Here's hoping you're on sufficient medication now and won't blow another fuse.

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Author: JDCRex Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861753 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 4:27 AM
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Planetary time scales are on the order of thousands of years, not hundreds.

You are ALREADY showing your ignorance and lack of understanding! Straight out of the gate! You are irrepressible! It's a kind of genius!

Here it is in bold so not even YOU can miss it:

HUMAN ACTIVITY COULD BE, IN EFFECT, SIMULATING IN MUCH SHORTER ORDER THE UNDERLYING PERTURBATIONS OF NATURE.

Christ!

How is that so goddamn hard to understand?

You lose.

Oh, bullcrap.

You showed that you had NO IDEA about the then current state of the research other than blathering about journals you had supposedly read that said that ESC research was unnecessary. You were shown to be utterly foolish by many others besides me.

Here's your insanely stupid original post:

http://boards.fool.com/science-savvy-libs-ought-to-know-that...

It completely missed and screwed up so many points in so few words that it remains your masterpiece of addle-headedness. And BEFORE YOU START: the cancer point was ridiculous to make. No one credible was doing ACTUAL human trials at the time - the cancer risk was known.

At the frickin' time I tried to get you to listen to and read actual reports, but you wouldn't. You would have had to give up your preconceptions if you had.

And I pointed out a zillion times that there was work being done (still not complete, by the way) in teasing pluripotency out of stem cells from later stages of development. So why the hell are you telling me something I already know?

It's all here in the recorded history, bucko. You can go back and have a look, but then again the facts aren't your strong suit.

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Author: eatenbybears Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861759 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 10:32 AM
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Here it is in Bold type from your posted line

"HUMAN ACTIVITY COULD BE"

There is no proof at all that man has squat to do with temperature change.

There have been a number of papers produced that cobble together cherry picked data that offer theories of temperature change over short term, but there have been no determinations of "what causes global warming"

The strongest fact about global warming is the fact that the last glacial period (one of many) ended 12,500 years ago.

Since then the earth has been warming and glaciers have receded.

That is a fact, not a could have, might have, in someones opinion or theory. Glaciers began melting 12,500 years ago and continue today.

No man, no man made CO2

Bears

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Author: WuLong Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861760 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 10:41 AM
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My problem is the rampant corruption and social engineering going on in the GW communities.
===
Like what, exactly?

Kyoto.
All it did was export emissions (and hence create economic disruption).

Not one single molecule of CO2 was reduced from the planet's atmosphere overall as a result of Kyoto. In fact, it may have increased CO2 production worldwide.
Last time I checked, China was bringing a new coal-fired power plant online every week.

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Author: AndrewXnn Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861761 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 10:46 AM
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Bears;

There have indeed been numerous glacial cycles on the earth for several million years. It has been noticed that they don't always follow the pattern of changes of earths orbit around the sun. However, when one considers the impact of changing atmospheric CO2 levels, then the pattern makes sense. That is that part of the climate change is from the changes in the earths orbit and part from atmospheric CO2 levels.

Currently, the earths orbit is favoring an increase in glaciers of the Northern Hemisphere. However, because of rising CO2 levels, this isn't happening.

Hundreds of millions of years ago, during the Jurassic period, CO2 levels were several times higher than they are now, and there were no permanent ice caps at the poles. The earths climate was much warmer even though the sun was no warmer then than now.

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Author: Goofyhoofy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861762 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 10:47 AM
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Yeah, probably burning a million years worth of prehistoric carbon every 365 days has no effect at all.

It's like water. It doesn't matter if it comes on your property a few drops at a time over many years, or if it lands all at once in a tsunami. No difference at all.

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Author: eatenbybears Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861764 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 10:55 AM
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However, when one considers the impact of changing atmospheric CO2 levels, then the pattern makes sense.

Cherry picking dates and data one could claim a correlation between CO2 and Temperature, but that leaves the other 11,900 years without explanation

Bears

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Author: eatenbybears Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861765 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 10:57 AM
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It's like water. It doesn't matter if it comes on your property a few drops at a time over many years, or if it lands all at once in a tsunami. No difference at all.

The smaller the ice cube the faster it looks that it is melting though it is at the same rate vs mass


Bears

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Author: WuLong Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861766 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 11:01 AM
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Show a little scientific rigor
You're funny. I show rigor all of the time.
This may be of interest.
http://www.aps.org/units/fps/newsletters/200807/monckton.cfm...

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Author: WuLong Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861768 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 11:15 AM
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A little more rigor for you.
Velocity appears to have peaked in November 1999, at a rate of 2.66C per century.
The most recent velocity I am able to calculate (Feb 2005) indicatse an increase of .53C per century and decelerating. Deceleration appears to be increasing. The most recent I am able to calculate (July 1999) is -.0012C. This is significantly more than the prior max deceleration of -.0008 (June 1981).

I am willing to suggest that there may currently be no warming. The rate of deceleration implies this. But to say the pause began in 1997 is not to my mind supported by the evidence.

boards.fool.com/again-to-say-there-has-been-no-warming-for-t...

The IPCC grossly overstated its case. Warming has been significantly less than predicted and has significantly decelerated, to the point where there may currently be no warming at all. Nothing in the IPCC report suggested this. And remember, China is bringing coal-fired power plants online every week. Atmospheric CO2 has not decreased.

The reality is that systems like the North Atlantic Oscillation seem to have more to do with medium-term warming events than CO2.
http://boards.fool.com/otoh-if-you-really-want-to-go-back-in...

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Author: nigelwhalmsley Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861771 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 11:31 AM
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"There is no proof at all that man has squat to do with temperature change."

Amazing that you guys know so much about this topic, while those climate scientists, with all their education and research, still continue to say it is very likely that man made activities are having some effect on climate change.

They could skip all that education and work - they could just ask you guys!

I wonder why they don't just believe you?

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Author: eatenbybears Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861775 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 11:54 AM
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Amazing that you guys know so much about this topic, while those climate scientists, with all their education and research, still continue to say it is very likely that man made activities are having some effect on climate change.

very likely = cant prove squat other than if you cherry pick dates and data you can make it fit within very likely standards and only for the past 100 or so years. 11,900 other years not explained.


Bears

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Author: nigelwhalmsley Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861794 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 1:03 PM
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[ Amazing that you guys know so much about this topic, while those climate scientists, with all their education and research, still continue to say it is very likely that man made activities are having some effect on climate change. ]

"very likely = cant prove squat other than if you cherry pick dates and data you can make it fit within very likely standards and only for the past 100 or so years. 11,900 other years not explained."

So, why don't the trained experts in the field - the ones with the scientific training, access to all the data - why don't they agree with you?

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Author: salaryguru Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861796 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 1:15 PM
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The fact that you think these two posts exemplifies scientific rigor speaks volumes about your lack of understanding of science.

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Author: Umm Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861798 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 1:17 PM
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"Then you probably shouldn't talk about climate change. Planetary time scales are on the order of thousands of years, not hundreds. What effing point are you even making?"

Classic Dope. He doesn't understand the point the other person is making yet he still talks all arrogant and insists he wins.

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Author: NemesisToLibs Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861799 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 1:17 PM
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"So, why don't the trained experts in the field - the ones with the scientific training, access to all the data - why don't they agree with you? "

Actually, if you weren't so blinded by reality, you would see that plenty do.

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Author: WuLong Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861801 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 1:33 PM
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The fact that you continue to repeat your Big Lie doesn't make it any more valid.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Lie

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Author: nigelwhalmsley Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861812 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 2:29 PM
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[ "So, why don't the trained experts in the field - the ones with the scientific training, access to all the data - why don't they agree with you? " ]

"Actually, if you weren't so blinded by reality, you would see that plenty do."

Reality works for me. And most climate scientists don't - by far.

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Author: NemesisToLibs Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861815 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 2:41 PM
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"And most climate scientists don't - by far."

ROTFLOL Another statement buy nigel without an ounce of supporting evidence. Typical nigel!

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Author: paralwaysgood Three stars, 500 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861822 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 3:04 PM
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Hello eatenbybears,

Without trying to rigorously justify my position, I just think this is a bad call. 97-98% of climatologists who study the atmosphere say humans are contributing.

What are you afraid of? We're going to use all the fossil fuels; nobody is going to prevent use of gasoline or SUVs. The free market may dictate a price for gas that you may not like. Our generation should conserve fossil fuel use, to give the next generation a chance to use this precious, irreplacable commodity as we have. Current frivolous use of oil and gas is a once in a hundred million years tragedy.

The world will continue to get warmer as we use up all the fossil fuels, then will eventually move back to the baseline climate after they are gone.

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Author: NemesisToLibs Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861826 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 3:08 PM
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" 97-98% of climatologists who study the atmosphere say humans are contributing.
"

let's see some evidence supporting your assertion?

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Author: TheDope1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861828 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 3:14 PM
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USC. Bringing teh stupid day in and day out.

Hey, genius - what did I say in the first post I made in this thread? And I love your weaseling around the fact that you were bloody well WRONG about stem cell research and continue to be.

Here's you problem, one that many of the libs who post here share: you don't really read what people say to you. You read what you want to read, argue some other point, and turn the while thing into some kind of gotcha exercise. Oh, and YOUR BOLDING AND BROKEN CAPS LOCK KEY ADD NO VALUE.

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Author: TheDope1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861829 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 3:16 PM
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BTW. You know how easy it is to spot an AGW hypocrite and moron? Ask them what their opinions of fracking and nuclear power are.

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Author: salaryguru Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861832 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 3:27 PM
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The fact that you continue to repeat your Big Lie doesn't make it any more valid.

Of course not. It is the massive volume of peer reviewed literature and carefully collected data that is critical to the opinion of an overwhelming majority of scientists. It is real scientific rigor that makes the case.

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Author: WuLong Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861833 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 3:33 PM
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It is real scientific rigor that makes the case.
Yes, which I've cited.
You have yet to make any data what so ever why the IPCC report did not overstate its case. It did, after all, predict increasing temps which have not in fact occurred.

I find this typical of you - whining about others but not meeting your own standard.
People in glass houses.... well, just a suggestion.

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Author: NemesisToLibs Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861834 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 3:33 PM
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" It is real scientific rigor that makes the case. "

Yeah;-) You mean the scientific rigor that led to the "hockey stick" shape graph attempting to show AGW impact.

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Author: nigelwhalmsley Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861835 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 3:35 PM
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[ "And most climate scientists don't - by far." ]

"ROTFLOL Another statement buy nigel without an ounce of supporting evidence. Typical nigel!" -NTL

Good grief, man. Do you even watch the (real, not Faux) news, or read anything? Ever used google? All you have to do is READ. You might try spending some time doing that, instead of 'ROTFLOL'ing at everything and everyone who disagrees with your stupid and unsupported positions. You MIIGHT actually learn something if you did.

"Report: 97 percent of scientists say man-made climate change is real"

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/sciencefair/post/201...

"Most Americans are unaware that the National Academy of Sciences, known for its cautious and even-handed reviews of the state of science, is firmly on board with climate change. It has been for years."

http://www.npr.org/2011/06/21/137309964/climate-change-publi...

"In the field of climate science, the consensus is unequivocal: human activities are causing climate change"

http://www.skepticalscience.com/global-warming-scientific-co...

There are TONS more, and there is no question that most climate scientists believe human activities have an impact.

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Author: JDCRex Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861843 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 3:48 PM
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Hey, genius - what did I say in the first post I made in this thread?

I was addressing your bullcrap about climate scientists needing to include the bombshell notion that the sun warms things.

And I love your weaseling around the fact that you were bloody well WRONG about stem cell research and continue to be.

I was not the slightest bit bloody well WRONG.

You were - and if you had the intellectual integrity you'd admit it. But that would cause loss of face, so you never will.

These are the facts:

1) Back in 2006 - when you made your ridiculous assertion that was slammed down instantly - it was known that in their natural state embryonic stem cells were pluripotent whereas stem cells from later stages of development were not.

2) There were nascent investigations underway to see if pluripotency could be induced in cells other than ESCs.

3) Later work in this area has been shown to be promising - but it is not yet settled. There are, in fact, dangers of their own cropping up.

NOW DOPE IS THE CRUCIAL POINT - SO PLEASE PAY ATTENTION:

4) If the hoped-for pluripotentiality from non-ESCs is to be attained, research needed to be - and STILL needs to be done - with ESCs. As I have pointed out in 3), we are not yet at the point where pluripotent non-ESCs are functionally the same thing.

Those are the facts. It's just that simple.

Oh, and YOUR BOLDING AND BROKEN CAPS LOCK KEY ADD NO VALUE.

Neither does your tedious borrowed-from-stale-Urban-Dictionary-entries-trying-to-be-all-streetwise patois - but yet you keep on with it.

(Here's a hint for you: if you're tempted to use "gettin' jiggy wid it" - don't. It won't make you look like a "hep cat" or whatever the hell you're trying to come across as.)

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Author: JDCRex Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861846 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 3:55 PM
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BTW. You know how easy it is to spot an AGW hypocrite and moron? Ask them what their opinions of fracking and nuclear power are.

They shouldn't be dogmatically forbidden from consideration, but both have varying degrees of problems with them from a number of viewpoints.

Or are they both all fairy-dust, puppy-dog-eyelash and unicorn beautiful?

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Author: 1poorguy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861848 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 3:58 PM
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What you believe is irrelevant. The science is "in", so to speak. There is no question within scientific circles about this.

Even Richard Muller, a skeptic at one point, has conceded he was wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_A._Muller

When we began our study, we felt that skeptics had raised legitimate issues, and we didn't know what we'd find. Our results turned out to be close to those published by prior groups. We think that means that those groups had truly been very careful in their work, despite their inability to convince some skeptics of that. They managed to avoid bias in their data selection, homogenization and other corrections.

Global warming is real.

...

On July 28, 2012, he stated, "[G]lobal warming [is] real .... Humans are almost entirely the cause."[16]


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Author: TheDope1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861851 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 4:02 PM
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Wow. "Hep cat"? Is it still the 1950s where you live? LOLOL. Way to not understand what people tell you, BTW. AND YOUR CAPS LOCK KEY STILL DOESN'T WORK.

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Author: JDCRex Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861852 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 4:04 PM
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This may be of interest.

Crap from Christopher Monckton?

The only thing interesting about it is that you would deign to insert that buffoon's name as an example of your scientific rigour.

Do you not know what this liar, charlatan, paid shill, self-publiciser and all-around weirdo is like?

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Christopher_Monck...

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Author: JoelCairo Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861853 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 4:10 PM
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More People in the United States Believe in Angels than Believe in Evolution.

For which there is not one shred of scientific support -- not a single one.

Contrast that with the debate on climate change.

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Author: JDCRex Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861854 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 4:12 PM
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Kyoto.

It is far from a raging success - but the fact that diplomacy and policy has somewhat failed does not mean that 1) the science is wrong or 2) efforts shouldn't continue to be made.

However, those efforts are going to always be fighting the headwinds of deep-pocketed vested interests and the horrendous difficulties of very complex multi-party negotiations.

It's depressing, but it's still not evidence of "rampant corruption and social engineering going on in the GW communities."

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Author: JDCRex Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861858 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 4:17 PM
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Wow. "Hep cat"? Is it still the 1950s where you live? LOLOL.

Uhhhh.... Dope. If you don't understand why I was deliberately using an antiquated term to highlight your pathetic attempts at trying to come across as right-wing-but-streetwise by using already out-of-date lingo then you never will.

But that's the point. You miss so much so often that it has become like some sort of unwitting performance art.

Carry on, accidental genius!

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Author: eatenbybears Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861865 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 4:28 PM
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So, why don't the trained experts in the field - the ones with the scientific training, access to all the data - why don't they agree with you?


Because they are being paid to find the results. You dont bite the hand that feeds you

Bears

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Author: eatenbybears Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861868 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 4:31 PM
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97-98% of climatologists who study the atmosphere say humans are contributing.


I would like a link to those percentages .... I believe that have lost something in the KoolAid translation

Bears

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Author: TheDope1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861869 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 4:37 PM
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Blah blah blah. At least you fixed the caps lock key in this post.
BTW. One of us almost always initiates our exchanges. Hint: it's not me. I never read anything of yours that's not sent my way. Know why? Your posts are a tiresome collection of 'Keeerist' and ALL CAPS SHOUTING resulting in posts that don't advance any argument nor add anything positive to threads they get into.

It's like you're trying to win the Biggest Jerk competition every time out. <-- I don't know why you feel you have to compete; you can retire as the Heavyweight ChMpion.

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Author: WuLong Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861870 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 4:38 PM
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Crap from Christopher Monckton?
Is figure 2 incorrect? No.

The only thing interesting about it is that you would deign to insert that buffoon's name as an example of your scientific rigour.
I used it specifically to show figure 2, the IPCC prediction.
It is clearly not what we have seen actually occur.

(Kyoto) is far from a raging success
Talk about understatement.

It's depressing, but it's still not evidence of "rampant corruption and social engineering going on in the GW communities."
It is based on a fallacy. How is that not corrupt social engineering?

Fwiw:
About the only thing one can say about "climate scientists" in general is that they have gotten the sign right.
http://boards.fool.com/about-the-only-thing-one-can-say-abou...

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Author: JDCRex Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861871 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 4:48 PM
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I never read anything of yours that's not sent my way.

My heart - it breaks.

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Author: JDCRex Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861872 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 4:57 PM
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I used it specifically to show figure 2, the IPCC prediction.
It is clearly not what we have seen actually occur.


Then it shows you rely on liars and nutbags to help you form your views.

Try extending your range a bit:

http://www.fool-me-once.com/2010/09/temperatures-are-below-p...

It is based on a fallacy. How is that not corrupt social engineering?

Be specific, please. Are you talking about the fecal matter you've cribbed from liars and nutbags? If so - see above.

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Author: nigelwhalmsley Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861874 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 5:08 PM
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[ So, why don't the trained experts in the field - the ones with the scientific training, access to all the data - why don't they agree with you? ]

"Because they are being paid to find the results. You dont bite the hand that feeds you"

So, we should believe what you say on this subject because you DON'T get paid for it? And NOT believe the folks who get paid to do this? NOT to mention they have the education, tools, and access to data. Wow. So much for ANY scientific research, eh? If anything comes up, we'll just ask you. Why bother with the folks that actually know...

I can't believe you even typed that response.

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Author: TheDope1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861876 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 5:12 PM
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I'll bet it does. A posting style like yours (full of bombast, insults and look-at-me over the top nonsense) implies an insecure personality that seeks assurance by cutting down other people. I'm guessing you don't do it in real life, as in Oz somebody would call you on it.

So you head for the internets to vent your frustrations. It's all good (Oooo, a term you may not like!). Everybody needs to let loose someplace.

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Author: eatenbybears Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861879 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 5:16 PM
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So, we should believe what you say on this subject because you DON'T get paid for it? And NOT believe the folks who get paid to do this? NOT to mention they have the education, tools, and access to data. Wow. So much for ANY scientific research, eh? If anything comes up, we'll just ask you. Why bother with the folks that actually know...

I can't believe you even typed that response.


Most of them were not paid either :)

See my latest post "Golbal Warming KoolAid"

We discussed the source of the "data :)" used in that old BS article .... years ago


Bears

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Author: WuLong Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861880 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 5:21 PM
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then it shows you rely on liars and nutbags to help you form your views.
As soon as you tell me what is wrong with figure 2, I'll give a rat's patootie about your opinion.
Seriously, did you decide that Crimes Against Logic was a training manual?

(Kyoto) is based on a fallacy.
===
Be specific, please

You can't exclude the country (China) that is probably the largest and fastest growing contributor of greenhouse gases. If the hypothesis about human-caused global warming is correct, you're doomed to failure.

Are you talking about the fecal matter you've cribbed from liars and nutbags?
Here's a hint: stop the name calling and demonstrate that my statements are actually incorrect.
Feel free to point out where, why and how I'm wrong. I dare you.
Many have tried, almost all have failed.

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Author: nigelwhalmsley Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861882 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 5:25 PM
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"See my latest post "Golbal Warming KoolAid"

Saw that, but it is pointless to debate - that argument is long gone. Quibble over then percentages, what questions were asked, etc. etc. to no avail. No matter how you quantify it, there is no escaping the fact that the vast majority of those who have credentials in climate science now agree there is some level of man made climate change. It is beyond question to the experts in the field.

Long ago they moved on to trying to figure about how, how much, etc. You can go on arguing that you know better than they, but your head is in the sand. Makes no difference what you believe, there is scientific consensus.

They don't agree with you. The experts in the field. Period.

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Author: eatenbybears Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861884 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 5:32 PM
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No matter how you quantify it, there is no escaping the fact that the vast majority of those who have credentials in climate science now agree there is some level of man made climate change. It is beyond question to the experts in the field.

Show me a link to that.

The only one I know of was the USA (or coppies of) article which was not from any Research,only results of a Google search of articles from scientists of any types to plumbers with an opinion.

No questions, no responses, just a Google search.

Find me something with data and I will go away.

Bears

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Author: NemesisToLibs Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861885 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 5:35 PM
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"Quibble over then percentages, what questions were asked, etc. etc. to no avail. No matter how you quantify it, there is no escaping the fact that the vast majority of those who have credentials in climate science now agree there is some level of man made climate change. It is beyond question to the experts in the field.
"

Yes, because nigel says so. Get it! He doesn't need facts. Just his say so.

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Author: Rightime Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861892 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 6:06 PM
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For which there is not one shred of scientific support -- not a single one.



Evolution? so you're saying you believe in Angels but you don't believe in Evolution?

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Author: nigelwhalmsley Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861893 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 6:06 PM
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[ No matter how you quantify it, there is no escaping the fact that the vast majority of those who have credentials in climate science now agree there is some level of man made climate change. It is beyond question to the experts in the field. ]

"Show me a link to that."

I did earlier, but I will again, below. This is but a few of many, many references. But rather than continue to argue that somehow the data is flawed, even though almost every scientific reference, poll, questionnaire and interview confirms it, why not prove your point? Can you point to anything that indicates that most climate scientists agree with YOU? Can you?

Here are a few;

"Report: 97 percent of scientists say man-made climate change is real"

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/sciencefair/post/201......

"Most Americans are unaware that the National Academy of Sciences, known for its cautious and even-handed reviews of the state of science, is firmly on board with climate change. It has been for years."

http://www.npr.org/2011/06/21/137309964/climate-change-publi......

"In the field of climate science, the consensus is unequivocal: human activities are causing climate change"

http://www.skepticalscience.com/global-warming-scientific-co......

There are TONS more, and there is no question that most climate scientists believe human activities have an impact.

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Author: nigelwhalmsley Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861894 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 6:08 PM
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"Yes, because nigel says so. Get it! He doesn't need facts. Just his say so." -NTL

Did you have trouble reading the links I sent when you asked for data? You didn't respond to that, but here you are with another one-liner, devoid of content.

Brilliant.

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Author: NemesisToLibs Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861896 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 6:12 PM
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"Did you have trouble reading the links I sent when you asked for data? "

You have reading problems. Did you read your own links?

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Author: JDCRex Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861900 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 6:27 PM
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A posting style like yours (full of bombast, insults and look-at-me over the top nonsense) implies an insecure personality that seeks assurance by cutting down other people.

No, lil' Dope - it's a reaction to the crap that you pump out on a daily basis.

I don't go in for your style - running off to Retire Deranged or CF and moaning and whining in oh-so-convenient generalities about libruls - then trying to proclaim yourself as superior because you are speaking with a broad brush.

If - like your good self - you are So Wrong, So Often, So Long I will call you personally to account for it rather than dance around the topic with political correctness and generalities.

I'm guessing you don't do it in real life

If someone speaks utter crap in real life I don't just let it slide. But the thing about the internet is that it is an aggregrator - it's a much wider net for the bulldung to get caught in than the necessarily more limited scope of the physical world as experienced by one person. Simply put - I just don't get the chance to come up against as much garbage in my day-to-day life.

For encountering concentrated wingnuttery, the internet is the greatest device ever built to suit the purpose.

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Author: nigelwhalmsley Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861901 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 6:30 PM
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[ Did you have trouble reading the links I sent when you asked for data? You didn't respond to that, but here you are with another one-liner, devoid of content. ]

"You have reading problems. Did you read your own links?"

Where did you have trouble? I'll try to explain in a way you can understand. Again, NTL, no content.

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Author: JDCRex Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861908 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 6:41 PM
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You can't exclude the country (China) that is probably the largest and fastest growing contributor of greenhouse gases. If the hypothesis about human-caused global warming is correct, you're doomed to failure.

So where's the fallacy? Who is claiming that Kyoto is the end solution?

As soon as you tell me what is wrong with figure 2, I'll give a rat's patootie about your opinion.

Go to the frickin' link I posted! It's a presentation with pictures n'everything!

Here's a hint: stop the name calling and demonstrate that my statements are actually incorrect.

Here's a hint for you: trying to affect this Mr Oh-So-Reasonable-I'm-All-About-The-Science persona while citing material from a fruitcake sideshow freak like Monckton kind of shatters the charade.

It's not quite as bad, but it's approaching using David Irving as a source.

Feel free to point out where, why and how I'm wrong. I dare you.

Go...

To...

The...

Frickin'...

Link!

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Author: NemesisToLibs Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861910 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 6:45 PM
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'Where did you have trouble? '

I'm tired of play these stupid games with you. Go back and read your link again.

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Author: putnid Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861911 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 6:46 PM
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I find it hysterically funny/absurd that anyone claiming to believe in "scientific rigor" would then turn around and cite Christopher Monckton.

For those not familiar with that charlatan Monckton, here's an introduction:

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Christopher_Monck...

Christopher Monckton is a non-scientist AGW denier, who has had articles published in The Guardian and in a non-peer-reviewed newsletter of the American Physical Society (whose Council subsequently disagreed with Monckton's conclusions) claiming that global warming is neither man-made nor likely to be catastrophic. Monckton has made various false claims in the past such as that he is a member of the British House of Lords, a Nobel Prize winner, inventor of a cure for HIV, winner of a defamation case against George Monbiot and writer of a peer-reviewed article.

Monckton's quite a character and a darling of the Denialist Industry. But, hey, enough about the man, let's examine his cited APS "paper" regarding climate sensitivity.

It should come as no surprise to any reasonably astute individual that scientists weren't all that impressed by Monckton's "paper":

http://tinyurl.com/a3qlxhe

Arthur Smith has read "Climate Sensitivity Reconsidered" by Christopher Monckton published in the APS Forum on Physics and Society Newsletter just a couple of months ago. Should someone of your acquaintance inquire, Arthur finds 125 errors. He separates them into

Errors or fallacies in the text are categorized and denoted under the following headings:

Errors of fact: "Wrong"
Irrelevant conclusions and non sequiturs: "Red Herring"
Other errors of logic: "Nonsense"
Errors of interpretation or misunderstanding: "Confused"
Arguments that only work for specially selected data: "Cherry Picking"
Other arguments that have no scientific validity: "Invalid"
Statements that contradict or conflict with other statements in the text: "Inconsistent"

Arthur, unlike Chris, is a nice fellow so he sums it up at the beginning

...please note that simply itemizing errors in an article doesn't prove one way or another whether the central premise of the article is wrong or not (the "fallacy fallacy"). Monckton's central question is on climate sensitivity. The magnitude of that sensitivity is a central question of climate science as a whole, and in particular centers on the sign and magnitudes of various feedbacks to temperature increase in Earth's climate system. The most recent IPCC report (AR4, Working Group 1, 2007) presented a robust collection of evidence from physical modeling, paleoclimate, and observed recent response of the climate system for their conclusions of a temperature response to CO2 doubling of between 2 and 4.5 K, with a best estimate around 3 K. The substantial collection of errors in Monckton's article renders his arguments against this IPCC conclusion quite unconvincing.


For those wishing to review Arthur Smith's thorough dissection of Monckton's "paper" you can read it here:

http://www.altenergyaction.org/Monckton.html

For another recap of what actual scientists have to say about climate sensitivity, here's a detailed article, chock full of useful links and references:

http://www.skepticalscience.com/climate-sensitivity-advanced...

Some global warming 'skeptics' argue that the Earth's climate sensitivity is so low that a doubling of atmospheric CO2 will result in a surface temperature change on the order of 1°C or less, and that therefore global warming is nothing to worry about. However, values this low are inconsistent with numerous studies using a wide variety of methods, including (i) paleoclimate data, (ii) recent empirical data, and (iii) generally accepted climate models.

Knutti and Hegerl (2008) presents a comprehensive, concise overview of our scientific understanding of climate sensitivity. In their paper, they present a figure which neatly encapsulates how various methods of estimating climate sensitivity examining different time periods have yielded consistent results, as the studies described above show. As you can see, the various methodologies are generally consistent with the range of 2-4.5°C, with few methods leaving the possibility of lower values, but several unable to rule out higher values.


The terms "Christopher Monckton" and "scientific rigor" are mutually exclusive.

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Author: WuLong Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861914 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 6:54 PM
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trying to affect this Mr Oh-So-Reasonable-I'm-All-About-The-Science persona while citing material from a fruitcake sideshow freak like Monckton kind of shatters the charade.
So, you have no actual evidence to present and (like putnid and salaryguru) can only mock others.
Thought so.

Just curious - how do you live with the hypocrisy?
Seriously, don't you ever make your own skin crawl? Ewwwww.

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Author: eatenbybears Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861920 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 7:07 PM
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"Report: 97 percent of scientists say man-made climate change is real"

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/sciencefair/post/201.........


That "study" ... as it was presented ... was no more than counting up climate warming articles written by self defined researchers who had written more than 10 articles/blogs.

Even the study itself said it was bogus

Bears

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Author: JDCRex Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861921 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 7:08 PM
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So, you have no actual evidence to present and (like putnid and salaryguru) can only mock others.

Is this satire?

READ THE LINK.

You will find evidence AT THE LINK.

And GO TO THE LINKS that putnid has just provided to you.

How could that possibly be not understood as providing evidence?

Just curious - how do you live with the hypocrisy?

Project much?

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Author: nigelwhalmsley Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861922 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 7:19 PM
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"That "study" ... as it was presented ... was no more than counting up climate warming articles written by self defined researchers who had written more than 10 articles/blogs.

Even the study itself said it was bogus"

So, do you have something that proves what you claim? That most climate scientists don't believe human activity has an impact?

I've never seen anything like that, ever.

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Author: nigelwhalmsley Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861923 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 7:25 PM
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'Where did you have trouble? '

"I'm tired of play these stupid games with you. Go back and read your link again."

Apparently not. What is your question?

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Author: BenHurJudah Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861924 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 7:28 PM
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Man-made global warming is a hoax perpetrated by mindless liberals with nothing else to do but come up with wacky theories, all in an attempt to make government bigger and more controlling and to pick more people's pockets. Pfft!

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Author: jgc123 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861931 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 7:55 PM
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I'm convinced.

I will stop wading through the IPCC AR4, and the studies cited therein, and the explanations of the math and science by the scientists at NASA and the NOAA, and the conclusions of Richard Muller (the world famous geophysicist who WAS a skeptic) and was paid by the Koch brothers to review the evidence with an extensive study intended to debunk climate science after which he was convinced that the climate scientists were right all along.

I think I go with the 'truthiness' standard set by internet pundits like bears and dope instead.

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Author: eatenbybears Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861932 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 8:03 PM
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Here is your "Study" :)


http://junksciencecom.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/pnas-2010-...


Excuse the site name, but it was the only one I found that had the study still up on the Internet.

Same study ..... google search of published articles and percent of articles that favor global warming.


Not experts asked for opinions ... simply the fact that articles were published

Of course, the horror of global warming would be printed more often since that sells papers better than ..... "Oh well, just like any other warm day"

Bears

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Author: jgc123 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861934 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 8:13 PM
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I can't stop laughing. Bears is citing 'junkscience.com', founded by Steven Milloy, the nonscientist blogger who spent decades proving that 'cigarettes don't kill' for Philip Morris - as his source.

The Onion is more honest and more credible than junkscience.com which is apparently bears' source of information:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Milloy

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Author: straitarrow Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861937 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 9:07 PM
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I have no firm opinion on this Global Warming issue but, by coincidence,I received this email from an old friend today:
*******************************************


"Where Does the Carbon Really Come From?
Professor Ian Plimer could not have said it better! If you've read his book you will agree, this is a good summary.


"Okay, here's the bombshell. The volcanic eruption in Iceland, since its first spewing of volcanic ash has, in just FOUR DAYS, NEGATED EVERY SINGLE EFFORT you have made in the past five years to control CO2 emissions on our planet - all of you.
Of course you know about this evil carbon dioxide that we are trying to suppress - it’s that vital chemical compound that every plant requires to live and grow and to synthesize into oxygen for us humans and all animal life.
I know, it's very disheartening to realize that all of the carbon emission savings you have accomplished while suffering the inconvenience and expense of: driving Prius hybrids, buying fabric grocery bags, sitting up till midnight to finish your kid's "The Green Revolution" science project, throwing out all of your non-green cleaning supplies, using only two squares of toilet paper, putting a brick in your toilet tank reservoir, selling your SUV and speedboat, vacationing at home instead of abroad, nearly getting hit every day on your bicycle, replacing all of your 50 cents light bulbs with $10.00 light bulbs ...well, all of those things you have done have all gone down the tubes in just four days.

"The volcanic ash emitted into the Earth's atmosphere in just four days - yes - FOUR DAYS ONLY by that volcano in Iceland, has totally erased every single effort you have made to reduce the evil beast, carbon. And there are around 200 active volcanoes on the planet spewing out this crud at any one time - EVERY DAY.
I don't really want to rain on your parade too much, but I should mention that when the volcano Mt Pinatubo erupted in the Philippines in 1991, it spewed out more greenhouse gases into the atmosphere than the entire human race had emitted in all its years on earth. Yes folks, Mt Pinatubo was active for over one year - think about it.
Of course I shouldn't spoil this touchy-feely tree-hugging moment and mention the effect of solar and cosmic activity and the well-recognized 800-year global heating and cooling cycle, which keep happening, despite our completely insignificant efforts to affect climate change.
And I do wish I had a silver lining to this volcanic ash cloud but the fact of the matter is that the bush fire season across the western USA and Australia this year alone will negate your efforts to reduce carbon in our world for the next two to three years. And it happens every year.

"Just remember that your government just tried to impose a whopping carbon tax on you on the basis of the bogus “human-caused” climate change scenario.
Hey, isn’t it interesting how they don’t mention “Global Warming” any more, but just “Climate Change” - you know why? It’s because the planet has COOLED by 0.7 degrees in the past century and these global warming bull artists got caught with their pants down.
And just keep in mind that you might yet have an Emissions Trading Scheme - that whopping new tax - imposed on you, that will achieve absolutely nothing except make you poorer. It won’t stop any volcanoes from erupting, that’s for sure.
But hey, relax, give the world a hug and have a nice day"

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Author: JoelCairo Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861938 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 9:14 PM
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so you're saying you believe in Angels

No. Not even if I was from LA.

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Author: WuLong Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861939 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 9:15 PM
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Is this satire?
Sigh. I keep forgetting how other people get emotionally tied to their arguments and have difficulty in performing rational analysis.

Ok, let's take it in teeny baby steps.

From the suggested link and it's discussion of fig 2:
Nonsense: Monckton doesn't describe where he got this IPCC (1990) projection. The 1990 (first) IPCC report did present a "best estimate" of a roughly 3 K rise from 1990 to 2100, but this was hardly expected to be the straight line (with no error bars!) that Monckton plots here.
http://www.altenergyaction.org/Monckton.html#sec4
This criticism essentially says that Monckton has been imprecise and is a valid criticism so far as it goes.
The line in question shows an increase of roughly .8C between 1990 and 2012. In actuality the increase is about 0.25C. The criticism, therefore would only be valid if the IPCC suggested error of ~.55C.
That's about twice the actual suggested error.

Bottom line - it's a distinction without a difference.

Having said all of that, this is perhaps a better graphic.
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/12/19/an-animated-analysis-o...

So, with regard to this particular data point, the ball is now in your court. You must explain why an error of .55C does not mean that clearly, the Nobel-winning IPCC overstated its case.
Good luck with that.


On to Kyoto.

Who is claiming that Kyoto is the end solution?
What does that have to do with it being based on a fallacy?

As I said in 2007, The Kyoto protocol is deeply flawed in that China was not impacted in any fashion. China of course is the largest and fastest growing producer of greenhouse gases (they are bringing coal-fired powerplants online at a rate in excess of one per week, iirc). It is hardly a stretch to imagine that bad industrialist ideologues would simply relocate to China rather than bear the economic pain of reducing emissions. The end result is that the same amount of greenhouse gases are produced as would have otherwise been the case, but with added cost of economic dislocation.
People really need to consider 2nd-order effects.

http://boards.fool.com/i-am-interested-to-understand-then-si...


Now, again, I suggest that if you don't like what I have to say that you actually provide some evidence rather than sophistry.
Stop your childish insults and actually prove me wrong if you can. I dare you.

The truth, of course, is that you can't.
You hide behind your silly word games and ad hominem attacks because you have no other option.

Project much?
Not at all. Ever.

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Author: JDCRex Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861941 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 9:18 PM
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I have no firm opinion on this Global Warming issue

.... but geeeeee, I'm sure you're leaning in a certain direction, right?

by coincidence,I received this email from an old friend today:

Of course you did.

Did you write back to your friend and tell them that the volcano theory has been debunked a bajillion times?

I bet you didn't.

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Author: nigelwhalmsley Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861942 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 9:19 PM
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"I think I go with the 'truthiness' standard set by internet pundits like bears and dope instead."

Who needs experts or science when we have these guys?

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Author: WuLong Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861943 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 9:21 PM
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Man-made global warming is a hoax perpetrated by mindless liberals with nothing else to do but come up with wacky theories, all in an attempt to make government bigger and more controlling and to pick more people's pockets.
I don't go that far.
It's an interesting hypothesis that may even be true, but it remains unproven.


If you have the time (2hrs), this is quite interesting:
"Earth From Space" is a groundbreaking two-hour special that reveals a spectacular new space-based vision of our planet. Produced in extensive consultation with NASA scientists, NOVA takes data from earth-observing satellites and transforms it into dazzling visual sequences, each one exposing the intricate and surprising web of forces that sustains life on earth. Viewers witness how dust blown from the Sahara fertilizes the Amazon; how a vast submarine "waterfall" off Antarctica helps drive ocean currents around the world; and how the Sun's heating up of the southern Atlantic gives birth to a colossally powerful hurricane. From the microscopic world of water molecules vaporizing over the ocean to the magnetic field that is bigger than Earth itself, the show reveals the astonishing beauty and complexity of our dynamic planet.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/space/earth-from-space.html or http://video.pbs.org/video/2334144059
Air date: 02/13/13.

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Author: straitarrow Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861944 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 9:24 PM
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"Did you write back to your friend and tell them that the volcano theory has been debunked a bajillion times?

I bet you didn't."



No need to be snippy, Rex!
I would be happy to review any links you might have regarding your "volcano debunking"

Try to stick with facts please.

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Author: JDCRex Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861946 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 9:26 PM
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I would be happy to review any links you might have regarding your "volcano debunking"

You've got an internet connection.

Use it.

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Author: straitarrow Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861948 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 9:38 PM
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"I would be happy to review any links you might have regarding your "volcano debunking"

You've got an internet connection.

Use it.

*********************************************


Sounds like a smart a$$ cop-out to me.
You are the one who made the claim, not me!

(Typical PA response)

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Author: JDCRex Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861950 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 9:43 PM
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So, with regard to this particular data point, the ball is now in your court. You must explain why an error of .55C does not mean that clearly, the Nobel-winning IPCC overstated its case.
Good luck with that.


Because Monckton - like the liar he is - is bullcrapping you about what the IPCC said.

Like I said GO TO THIS LINK:

http://www.fool-me-once.com/2010/09/temperatures-are-below-p...

REALLY.

Go to it. Watch it.

What have you got to lose except a few minutes and your misconceptions?

What does that have to do with it being based on a fallacy?

Are you spewing about the garbage frauds and weirdos like Monckton have fooled you with?

That what HE says the IPCC says is true, rather than what the IPCC actually said?

If so, then once again the Mr. Reasonable suit you have measured up for yourself is cut from a very shoddy cloth.

You have NO IDEA how hilarious it is to have someone resort to CHRISTOPHER MONCKTON and then try to huff and puff about scientific probity.

I'm sorry if you didn't realise before what an oddball huckster this guy is - and it must be embarrassing to be pulled up in public about it - but let that be a lesson to you: check your sources.

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Author: JDCRex Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861952 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 9:48 PM
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(Typical PA response)

... to the typical "aww-gosh-golly-shucks" act by a typical reactionary: "I don't know about this stuff, but here's a steaming pile of crap someone emailed me that I didn't bother checking yet I'll use it as a stalking horse to hide behind while I pretend not to have an opinion even though I do."

Again - go do some Googling on your own. It might teach you a few things about finding things out for yourself.

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Author: salaryguru Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861960 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 11:36 PM
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Yes, which I've cited.
You have yet to make any data what so ever why the IPCC report did not overstate its case. It did, after all, predict increasing temps which have not in fact occurred.


LOL. Science is not conducted by linking to one or two popular press articles and a couple of one's own posts on an internet discussion board, then declaring success. That's what the right wants to believe when it comes to evolution and global warming and a few other topics. Actual scientific investigations involve researchers reading thousands of pages of peer-reviewed literature, spending months or years taking meticulous measurements, applying existing models and developing new ones, then discussing the strengths and weaknesses of the models examined to describe the observations. The researchers who engage in this kind of intense, focused work typically have studied research formally for many years. Most will have earned or will be earning a PhD and many will have done post-doc work.

Even with that kind of effort by those kinds of people, no scientific model is ever 100% correct. Models will never be perfect, but the procedure makes them improve over time.

People who like to quote popular science articles or focus on one graph or one prediction from among the thousands of pages of literature, then declare they have found the smoking gun that proves scientists are wrong are not uncommon. Often these people have a technical degree - maybe a Masters degree - but either did not want to put in the effort or were unable to earn their PhD. I saw them a lot when I taught. They often have a giant chip on their shoulder and an arrogant attitude.

Very few global warming doubters are motivated by a desire to expand knowledge. Their motivation is purely political. They scour the popular scientific literature in search of tidbits to prove their point - ignoring the mountains of facts that support the prevailing theory and then attempt to intimidate the lay public with their data artifact while demonizing the actual scientists who have devoted so much of their lives to actually trying to expand knowledge.

If you really believe that you know more about scientific rigor and global warming than 90+% of the scientific community, then you should prove it by developing your arguments into a better model or theory and publishing it. Otherwise, stop pretending that a handful of arrogant assertions from unqualified people in non-peer reviewed publications even comes close to overturning the existing dominant understanding of the scientific community.

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Author: WuLong Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861961 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 11:36 PM
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GO TO THIS LINK:
Sigh. Again.
1) your link shows the a2 line, not the a1 line. Your mixing apples and oranges.
2) OK, let's use the A2 data. In slide 7/8 it shows sigma 2 for 2012 at slightly above .2C. Actual is still at the very bottom of that error bar.

Putnid linked to skepticalscience. You know what their explanation is?
climate scientists at the time believed a doubling of atmospheric CO2 would cause a larger global heat imbalance than current estimates,
http://www.skepticalscience.com/contary-to-contrarians-ipcc-...
...which is to say, "we were wrong before but this time for sure we know what we are talking about. Maybe. Kinda. We hope."

it must be embarrassing to be pulled up in public about it
Not really, since I've been able to show that the data is what it is.
You've done absolutely nothing to show that the IPCC didn't overstate its case.
Must be embarrassing to go to all that effort and not actually accomplish anything.

Seriously, do tell me when you're going to show that the IPCC didn't overstate its case.
I'm waiting with bated breath to see how you pull it off.

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Author: emtwo Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861962 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/23/2013 11:39 PM
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HaHaHa...Ian Plimer...really?

"A lot of climate skeptics claim that volcanoes emit more CO2 than humans do," Gerlach said. "They never give any numbers, but the fact is you will never be able to find the volcanic gas scientist that will agree to that," he said.

One example of these skeptic's claims is the 2009 book, "Heaven and Earth: Global Warming, the Missing Science" by Ian Plimer of the University of Adelaide, who did not respond to Discovery News' requests for comment.


http://news.discovery.com/earth/weather-extreme-events/volca...

v/r

Michael

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Author: JDCRex Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861964 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/24/2013 12:05 AM
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You've done absolutely nothing to show that the IPCC didn't overstate its case.

I'll make it simple for you.

You - or more accurately the bullcrap sources you crib from while trying to bluff your way into the oh-so-measured Baconian-empiricist position you pretend to be - MISSTATE the IPCC case. In ANY time frame and over ANY line chosen.

THAT was the point of the link I provided. Did you watch it? If so - work on your method of synthesis. It's severely lacking.

Again - you are relying on a paid shill, huckster and absolute oddball for your underpinnings. It is hilarious that you are still pushing this fraud's wheelbarrow while trying to claim the scientific high ground.

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Author: WuLong Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861973 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/24/2013 5:07 AM
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Did you watch it?
Dude, how could I reference slide 7/8 if I hadn't watched it?
Clearly, you aren't reading for content and have no intention of actually addressing the point.

Which is to say, you are a troll. Not unexpected.

Here is something to consider:
Since IPCC’s first report in 1990, assessed projections have suggested global average temperature increases between about 0.15°C and 0.3°C per decade for 1990 to 2005. This can now be compared with observed values of about 0.2°C per decade, strengthening confidence in near-term projections.
http://www.ipcc.ch/publications_and_data/ar4/wg1/en/spmsspm-...

In reality, the maximum velocity of temperature increase was .22°C per decade and occurred in 1999.
At the time of this report the record high global average temp of 1998 had just been statistically tied (note it has never been exceeded by the margin of error), yet 9 years of no increase in global temp strengthened their confidence that they were correct.
And you think that is not overstating the case. Fascinating.

Fwiw, here's my prediction: it's going to get warmer, probably on the order of .75C per century (about half the low end of the IPCC prediction). There will be cycles. Sometime is will get warmer fast, sometimes it will hold steady. Sometimes it may even decline, but not in general. This will happen regardless of worldwide industrialization.

I've been saying essentially this for, oh, 20 years now.
I seem to be correct. Just sayin'.

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Author: WuLong Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861975 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/24/2013 5:22 AM
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People who like to quote popular science articles
You're just so cute when you are being elitist....
Go ahead and hug that social proof tightly.

Very few global warming doubters are motivated by a desire to expand knowledge. Their motivation is purely political.
Very few global warming alarmists are motivated by a desire to expand knowledge. Their motivation is purely political.
There. Fixed that for you.

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Author: proton500 Big red star, 1000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861979 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/24/2013 7:10 AM
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Wingnut...GW is a hoax....

Let me translate your statement from Wingnutish to English.

I am a dedicated wingnut who believes that the universe is 6000 years old. In the process of defending creationism from the tsunami of refuting evidence coming from the smartest people who ever lived, I have developed a multi-pronged coping strategy of denial, obfuscation and insult. If you think you can penetrate my 'comfortably numb' cocoon of ignorance you are as deluded as Darwin.

You can talk till your tongue grows weary but I will not hear you, nor does it matter how much GW evidence you place in front of me, because I'm right and you are wrong, Limbaugh, Leviticus and the 'Left Behind' series told me so. You could threaten to make me lion chow in the Colosseum but if you think that you can make me think, then it is you who can't think.

Real men in my white bred church own assault rifles. If Romney had been elected, welfare would have ended and sooner or later, roving gangs of drug addicts would be trying to destroy us. GW is meaningless because god is coming back and he is pissed off. He is going to send 99% of humans to hell and I'm ready to kill anyone trying to flee from god's round-up. While liberals foolishly worry about perpetuating life on Earth, we welcome its end.

http://news.yahoo.com/nearly-four-10-u-residents-blame-weath...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5yNZ1U37sE

American exceptional-ism from the dumbest people in America.

proton

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Author: HMALETTER Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861984 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/24/2013 8:57 AM
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Velocity appears to have peaked in November 1999, at a rate of 2.66C per century.
The most recent velocity I am able to calculate (Feb 2005) indicatse an increase of .53C per century and decelerating. Deceleration appears to be increasing. The most recent I am able to calculate (July 1999) is -.0012C. This is significantly more than the prior max deceleration of -.0008 (June 1981).

I am willing to suggest that there may currently be no warming. The rate of deceleration implies this. But to say the pause began in 1997 is not to my mind supported by the evidence.
boards.fool.com/again-to-say-there-has-been-no-warming-for-t......

The IPCC grossly overstated its case. Warming has been significantly less than predicted and has significantly decelerated, to the point where there may currently be no warming at all. Nothing in the IPCC report suggested this. And remember, China is bringing coal-fired power plants online every week. Atmospheric CO2 has not decreased.

The reality is that systems like the North Atlantic Oscillation seem to have more to do with medium-term warming events than CO2.
http://boards.fool.com/otoh-if-you-really-want-to-go-back-in......
____________________________

That type of thinking can never be allowed to stand. There are too many people heavily invested in work that requires grants and other forms of non-productive revenue-raising. The entire Democratic Party has staked their credibility on man-made global warming and climate change in general. Obama has given taxpayer money to fund various projects. There are also tons of protesters and activists with little else to do.

From the mouth of Al Gore to the force of the IPCC, there's plenty of reason for those involved to just sit back and review their mistakes. Perhaps they were too early in their predictions, perhaps they were just wrong. It's even possible that man has nothing whatsoever to do with climate change.

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Author: HMALETTER Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861985 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/24/2013 9:28 AM
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Very few global warming doubters are motivated by a desire to expand knowledge. Their motivation is purely political.
----------
Very few global warming alarmists are motivated by a desire to expand knowledge. Their motivation is purely political.
There. Fixed that for you.
____________

Political motivation is a means to gather monetary support. As some of the early supporters of this man-made global warming movement have admitted, it was always about money. A grand scheme to extract wealth from countries that just weren't redistributing it fast enough for their needs. If you get powerful enough, just calling someone a Doubter or Denier is supposed to shut them up, so they can go about their bidding.

One of the most visible things going on all these years in the global warming conspiracy is China's growth. China is a very dirty, polluting country. If you're a liberal, and specifically a global warming alarmist, China would be your target number one. But China isn't full of Al Gores, it's full of hard-core government officials that would sooner poke you in the eye and call you a freak. They won't slow growth, and they won't listen to your bunk. No leverage over China, at all.

So right now, the global warming movement has degenerated into ignoring data manipulation, email statements not in their favor, calling people names, and insisting nothing that's happened over the past two decades in any way should make them reconsider.

In spite of every other paragraph written by the alarmists about climate change citing PEER REVIEWED whatever, not a single mention is ever given to statements and data that has been labeled Bunk, and Speculation. Much like the melting of the Himalyan glaciers by 2035, which was based on pure speculation, no science needed. It was thought that if enough of these alarming statements were adopted by organizations such as the IPCC, then people would surely join their side, and fork over hundreds of billions of dollars in the process.

But this is the real world, and not everyone is a lemming. Many of us want to know the truth, even if it means waiting a decade or many more to get it. Many of us believe in evolution, support non-polluting sources, and believe a cleaner planet is a good thing. That doesn't mean we're all stupid enough to join some alarmist movement, especially one that has been proven to openly lie and present bogus data to gain support. In fact, the manipulation of data, and many other statements that alarmists refuse to comment on, has done more to set back the acceptance of any reports than any political ideology ever has.

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Author: lowstudent Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861987 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/24/2013 9:42 AM
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But this is the real world, and not everyone is a lemming. Many of us want to know the truth, even if it means waiting a decade or many more to get it. Many of us believe in evolution, support non-polluting sources, and believe a cleaner planet is a good thing. That doesn't mean we're all stupid enough to join some alarmist movement, especially one that has been proven to openly lie and present bogus data to gain support. In fact, the manipulation of data, and many other statements that alarmists refuse to comment on, has done more to set back the acceptance of any reports than any political ideology ever has.
____________________________

Personally I agree with this entirely.

I do not think this issue stands alone actually, there are multiple issues where I agree with the rhetoric of the Dem/libs.

However, their willingness/need? to act rashly, and to absolutely vilify any who dare disagree. and do any amount of harm to IMO make themselves feel good, leaves me in a position, where for the most part, I would not tun on a hose were they on fire, heck with support them on anything

To those of you who do not buy this you vilify stuff. Listen to an Obama speech, Listen to that lying piece of garbage that liberals support (except, of course, for some who want to claim purity and nibble around the edgers and play make believe he is other than what he is while vilifying any who dare speak against him).

IT no longer matters whether liberals may be right or wrong, they have to be stopped even if it means stopping the rare good they may do. They are a group who can not tell bad from good as they rush blindly from cause to cause ignoring the chaos in their wake.

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Author: WuLong Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861989 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/24/2013 10:14 AM
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has been proven to openly lie and present bogus data to gain support. In fact, the manipulation of data, and many other statements that alarmists refuse to comment on, has done more to set back the acceptance of any reports than any political ideology ever has.
Yes, the alarmist never bring up Climate-gate, do they?
Funny that.

As long as we are discussing data manipulation, I'd like to take another crack at that IPCC statement.
Since IPCC’s first report in 1990, assessed projections have suggested global average temperature increases between about 0.15°C and 0.3°C per decade for 1990 to 2005. This can now be compared with observed values of about 0.2°C per decade, strengthening confidence in near-term projections.
The 5yr average at the end of 2005 was .26°C higher than at the beginning of 1990. Divide that out and you get .162°C per decade.
Now, round that and you do indeed get about 0.2°C so their statement is not untrue, but it is also far more correct to say it is about 0.15°C, at the low range of estimation.
Why didn't they do that? Hmmmmmm........

I know salaryguru and JCDRex will never address that point head on. How do you describe that as anything more than overstatement?

Another point to consider, which of IPCC's scenarios are we in?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Report_on_Emissions_Sce...
I'd argue that we are in A1FI. If you agree (and I'd love to hear contrary evidence - really, cuz I don't see it) then the IPCC prediction is an increase of 2.42°C – 6.42°C by 2100. In order for that to happen, we need to see temperature increases that are at least what we saw throughout the '90s and see them soon. Considering the platuea we've had for the last 15 years, that would look something like (tell me you saw this coming) a hockey stick, wouldn't it?

Data: ftp://ftp.ncdc.noaa.gov/pub/data/anomalies/monthly.land_ocea...

IPCC also calls for 0.26 – 0.59 meter increase in sea level. On the climate change board one poster reports sea level increase has held steady at 3mm per year for 20 years, which is at the low range also.

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Author: FoolishVintner Two stars, 250 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861990 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/24/2013 10:37 AM
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I just love to read all these blow-hard opinions of so many "experts" on climatology. Meanwhile, setting that crackpot Oregon online survey aside, 97% of real<.b> experts on global climate acknowledge anthropogenic global warming.

http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2009/01/20/97-of-active-clim...


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Author: WuLong Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861992 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/24/2013 11:11 AM
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I just love to read all these blow-hard opinions of so many "experts" on climatology.
I love how people read the headlines and don't look at the actual data.

The Gallup poll asked do you believe increases in the Earth's temperature over the last century are due more to -- the effects of pollution from human activities (or) natural changes in the environment that are not due to human activities?
The Doran poll asked Do you think human activity is a significant contributing factor in changing mean global temperatures?
These are distinctly different questions. What is significant? 5%? 25%?
If you say that "significant" is any number less than 50%, then it is possible to be on both sides of the issue according to these two polls.
But then, that would require a rigorous analysis, and according to the alarmists I don't do rigor.


97% of real<.b> experts on global climate acknowledge anthropogenic global warming.
If you go back up the thread and look at my "sane" post, you'll see that I said It's difficult to say we don't contribute. The amount of that contribution is difficult to determine.
So, by suggesting that the NAO is the primary contributor to warming in the 90's, I'd answer "nature" (no) to the Gallup question. But since I can't say human activity is actually insignificant, I'd have to answer "yes" to the Doran poll.

The Doran poll is really a lousy question and purely for propaganda purposes.
Were it a serious academic pursuit, it would have defined (or asked responders to define) "significant".

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Author: paralwaysgood Three stars, 500 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861993 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/24/2013 11:40 AM
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Here's a good link to the Doran/Zimmerman study:

http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2009/01/20/97-of-active-clim...

I don't care whether you believe in global warming, or peak oil, or not. All we can do as individuals is prepare for the future. If you hold on stubbornly to your beliefs that nothing is changing, and continue to drive an SUV and blast the air conditioning all summer long, how will you explain to your grandchildren that you are sorry and that my generation was greedy?

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Author: WuLong Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861994 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/24/2013 11:59 AM
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Here's a good link to the Doran/Zimmerman study:
Which is the link FoolshVintner posted and is only useful in that it let's you get to the actual article (http://tigger.uic.edu/~pdoran/012009_Doran_final.pdf) which in turn lets you see what a lousy question is was.
Also, it notes that Approximately 5% of the respondents were climate scientists.

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Author: paralwaysgood Three stars, 500 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861996 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/24/2013 12:05 PM
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Yes, only 77 respondents were climate scientists working on this problem, and only 75 of them are in agreement. The other two are probably paid shills for industry, and you seem to agree with the 2 and not the 75.

It's alright; just prepare.

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Author: 1poorguy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1861999 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/24/2013 12:36 PM
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It did, after all, predict increasing temps which have not in fact occurred.

That is factually incorrect. Average global temperatures ARE up. An indisputable fact.

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=average+global+temperat...

The Koch's (ironically) funded a study not long ago the conclusion of which strongly supported AGW. One of the lead scientists was Richard Muller, once-revered among denialists for his skepticism of AGW and his excellent scientific credentials. He accepts now that it is real too.

cited here: http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2012/07/28/602151/bombshell...
here: http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/10/21/ne...
and here: http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/washington-whispers/2012/07...

...among other cites.

There really is no doubt at this point. Only the somewhat baffling obstinance of people like you. It, frankly, is willful ignorance. Though I don't see what that gains you (unless you're a big coal miner or oil exec, which I doubt or you wouldn't bother being here on TMF).

I don't expect anything to change your mind on this, not ever. But maybe others reading this will follow the links and gain more understanding. As the following graph shows, there is no scientific controversy over whether climate change is occurring.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronomy/2012/12/11/climate_...

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Author: eatenbybears Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1862002 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/24/2013 12:47 PM
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I can't stop laughing. Bears is citing 'junkscience.com',

As I said on my post, they seem the only ones who kept the "study" on line.

That study, if you check, is the one used sited in the USA article that claimed 97% of scientists agree that man causes global warming.

I guess most took the study down from their sites as it and the USA article shows how the left will cherry pick data from foolish studies, minipulate it and half report in order to create the "Shock and Aw" headlines they are looking for :)

Was one of the stupidest studies ever backed by the Left


Bears

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Author: WuLong Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1862006 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/24/2013 1:00 PM
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That is factually incorrect. Average global temperatures ARE up. An indisputable fact.
Yes.
There really is no doubt at this point.
Never said there was. Why do you have such trouble parsing?

Only the somewhat baffling obstinance of people like you. It, frankly, is willful ignorance.
And I would say that you are the one who is willfully ignorant. Why?
Because you deliberately mischaracterize what I say.
I have never said that temperatures are not up. This is a lie on your part.

In fact I said The 5yr average at the end of 2005 was .26°C higher than at the beginning of 1990. Divide that out and you get .162°C per decade.
http://boards.fool.com/has-been-proven-to-openly-lie-and-pre...
That is at the absolute bottom of the range predicted by the IPCC, but they continued on as if it were right smack dab in the middle saying observed values of about 0.2°C per decade, strengthening confidence in near-term projections.
It is clear overstatement.

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Author: commoncents33 Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1862008 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/24/2013 1:09 PM
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I assume you believe that the Carbon Dioxide concentration in the atmosphere is increasing.

http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/ccgg/trends/

So you must believe one of the other (or both) of these statements:

1) Human activities are not the cause of the increasing CO2.

2) CO2 is not a greenhouse gas.

Which is it?

Peter



Well, I suspect when he says he doesn't believe man is the cause of global warming, he is not saying that man makes absolutely zero contribution to it, but rather that he is not making a substantial contribution.

So your list really needs a third option: 3) yes man produces CO2, and it is a greenhouse gas, but it is not a substantive cause of global warming.

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Author: commoncents33 Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1862010 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/24/2013 1:15 PM
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We are actually STILL in somewhat of an ice age that begun tens of million or so years ago. Evidence of this is that there is (still) ice on both the poles. We are in an interglacial period of this ice age, as opposed to the last glacial maximum seen about 10k years ago.

Now - I know that rugged individualists like you and your brave wingnut buddies like to live their lives on the geological scale. But I'm a simpering wimp - I tend to think in tiny time frames like - oh, I don't know - hundreds of years. You know - arbitrary numbers that contain human lifespans. THAT is what the debate is about - what the augmenting effect of human-displaced CO2 is in the short term. The question is: is the world going to be hotter than it otherwise would have been in the near-ish term? And the evidence overwhelmingly says yes. How much warmer and what can be done about it is - as you have pointed out - a big question.



Is there data that shows the change from ice age to warm period normally proceeds in a perfectly smooth, linear way? Or is is more like the the pattern seen in various flows, in which there are waves? How do we know that the small acceleration in warming over the past century isn't perfectly normal and expected, given that we are still--as you say--emerging from the past ice age?

Kind of related to that: if the recession of various glaciers today is supposed to be evidence of some unnatural/manmade global warming, then what are we to make of the extremely rapid recession of the glaciers which filled Glacier Bay, Alaska about three hundred years ago, before any industrialization? How, exactly, can we determine that whatever caused that rapid warming isn't the same thing that is causing any current warming?

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Author: nigelwhalmsley Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1862011 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/24/2013 1:22 PM
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"That study, if you check, is the one used sited in the USA article that claimed 97% of scientists agree that man causes global warming."

I've asked this several times now, with no answer forthcoming; Is there ANY data, ANY study, ANY poll that shows that most climate scientists DON'T believe that human activities impact climate? (answer is "no".)

If it is so blindingly obvious that there is some sort of world wide conspiracy among these scientists to hide the truth (queue X-Files theme here), should it not be easy to prove?

It isn't, there is no data that says this, because it simply isn't true. Rather than attack the 97% number, why not argue positively for your point? I know you would if you could, but that isn't an option. It makes no sense. Stop listening to the peabrain right wingers who think they understand the science involved better than the scientists do. They don't.

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Author: eatenbybears Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1862012 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/24/2013 1:22 PM
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1) Human activities are not the cause of the increasing CO2.

2) CO2 is not a greenhouse gas.

Which is it?

Peter


As for "1", there are estimates that 20% of the CO2 is from forest fires. Then add volcanos (underwater and above ground) decomposition and any number of other natural cycles and we have not even touched the surface of where any CO2 increase may come from.

But the bottom line of all things is the indisputable fact that the earth was partially covered by glaciers 12,000 years ago and they have melted at an incredible rate without man .... so what did it?

Bears

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Author: eatenbybears Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1862015 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/24/2013 1:31 PM
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I've asked this several times now, with no answer forthcoming; Is there ANY data, ANY study, ANY poll that shows that most climate scientists DON'T believe that human activities impact climate? (answer is "no".)



Is there any study that says most climate scientists DO believe that human activities impact climate strong enough to change the weather?

That thing in USA (97%) was not a "study", asked nobody a question and made no attempt to use any data or balance opinions.

But .... being BS, the Left loved it

Bears

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Author: nigelwhalmsley Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1862036 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/24/2013 2:44 PM
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"Is there any study that says most climate scientists DO believe that human activities impact climate strong enough to change the weather?"

So your answer is NO, there is NO data to support your position. Every indication, interview, poll, and common sense tells you so. That you refuse to listen to experts, and instead go along with right wing talking points ABOUT science, FROM NON-scientists, is the root of your continued ignorance in this area.

Does it tell you anything that you cannot come up with ANY facts to support your claim? People of science from all over the world regularly comment on this and support mine.

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Author: NemesisToLibs Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1862039 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/24/2013 2:53 PM
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"People of science from all over the world regularly comment on this and support mine. "

LOL You have yet to show it from a reliable study.

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Author: eatenbybears Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1862050 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/24/2013 3:17 PM
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So your answer is NO, there is NO data to support your position.

I have no idea.

I have also only seen studies that say ..... X% of all the scientists who believe in Climate Change, believe there is climate change.

As I pointed out, that one 97% article from USA today in fact never spoke to a believer in climate change. It just did a google search of articles, found that 97% were by believers in climate change so they titled the article ..... 97% of climate change researchers believe in Global Warming.

That type of research is embarrassing

Bears

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Author: nigelwhalmsley Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1862054 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/24/2013 4:03 PM
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http://mobi.timesdispatch.com/richmond/pm_120061/contentdeta...

http://www.wunderground.com/resources/climate/928.asp

http://green.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/06/22/evidence-for-a-con...

http://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus


http://www.climatepath.org/aboutus/science

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Author: paralwaysgood Three stars, 500 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1862056 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/24/2013 4:04 PM
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No, eatenbybears.

It says that 97% of active climatologists believe that humans are causing global warming. Either pay attention, or stop being so stupid.

FA me, I don't care. Clearly rich does not equal smart.

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Author: nigelwhalmsley Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1862059 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/24/2013 4:14 PM
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[ So your answer is NO, there is NO data to support your position. ]

"I have no idea."

I know. You could look, but there isn't any. None. Zero. Yet you stand by this position. If you read any scientific publications, you already know that most experts disagree with you.

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Author: crassfool Big funky green star, 20000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1862060 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/24/2013 4:14 PM
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JDCRex says

I was addressing your bullcrap about climate scientists needing to include the bombshell notion that the sun warms things.

There's no proof of that.

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Author: crassfool Big funky green star, 20000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1862064 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/24/2013 4:29 PM
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BenHurJudah says

Man-made global warming is a hoax perpetrated by mindless liberals with nothing else to do but come up with wacky theories, all in an attempt to make government bigger and more controlling and to pick more people's pockets. Pfft!

Well!

And whose little doppel are you, sweetie?

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Author: crassfool Big funky green star, 20000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1862065 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/24/2013 4:33 PM
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straitarrow says

I have no firm opinion on this Global Warming issue but, by coincidence,I received this email from an old friend today:
*******************************************


"Where Does the Carbon Really Come From?
Professor Ian Plimer could not have said it better! If you've read his book you will agree, this is a good summary.


"Okay, here's the bombshell. The volcanic eruption in Iceland, since its first spewing of volcanic ash has, in just FOUR DAYS, NEGATED EVERY SINGLE EFFORT you have made in the past five years to control CO2 emissions on our planet - all of you.

[... and a lot more happy horsepuckey]

You've been had.

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Author: paralwaysgood Three stars, 500 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1862066 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/24/2013 4:36 PM
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Sorry, eatenbybears. I shouldn't have said that. Just frustrated, and am leaving the conversation. Keep arguing all you want. This issue has been decided.

I can't see why anyone wants to argue this, when conserving fuel for future generations is the right thing to do anyway.

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Author: nigelwhalmsley Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1862067 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/24/2013 4:41 PM
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[ "People of science from all over the world regularly comment on this and support mine. " ]

"LOL You have yet to show it from a reliable study." - NTL

Use your senses. Read. Think. Watch the science channel. Pick up a copy of Scientific American. All thise will tell you what the scientific consensus is. Oh, and turn off Fox "News".

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Author: JDCRex Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1862069 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/24/2013 5:16 PM
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Dude, how could I reference slide 7/8 if I hadn't watched it?
Clearly, you aren't reading for content and have no intention of actually addressing the point.


There's a difference between skimming something and really watching it.

As I said - if you watched it, work on your synthesis. It is missing any demonstration of application.

If you watched - and by watched it I meant sat there and actually took it in - you did it through the warped prism of obfuscation of a proven liar and a shill. You have been taken in. Completely.

You are basing your BULLCRAP - your utter, unfettered BULLCRAP on Christopher Frickin' Monckton! Again - you obviously had NO idea how much of a charlatan this creep was. That's not my fault. I know you must feel like an idiot being shown that you are in the same camp as such a clown - but take some responsibility for your stupid tendency to believe a snake-oil salesman and start actually thinking about this rather than slipping around covered in the bad medicine he peddles.

And address these points - and don't try to worm your pathetic way out of it by saying "oh, it's a different time frame on the chart":

There are four fundamental problems with using these values to "predict" temperatures and attributing them to the IPCC:

1. The IPCC does not "predict" anything on this matter – they make multiple projections assuming different future emissions scenarios. This may sound trivial, but it’s a very important distinction. Monckton narrows the analysis to a single scenario (A2) and labels it a prediction.

2. Temperature rise for the A2 scenario is very unlikely to be linear, and single values in °C / century are inappropriate when looking at temperatures for time periods of less than a century. This is particularly problematic when looking at very short time periods early in this century, which are likely to exhibit less warming than later in the century.

3. These equations predict the equilibrium temperature response, which is the final temperature change once the climate has fully adjusted to a change in CO2. It does not represent the temperature expected for the year that CO2 concentration reaches the value used in the equation (and will always be higher than this value). The IPCC is abundantly clear on this point.

4. The IPCC never uses or presents these values to project global temperatures in the first decade of the 21st century.


Which is to say, you are a troll.

Says the master. Hilarious.

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Author: NemesisToLibs Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1862076 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/24/2013 5:40 PM
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"Use your senses. Read. Think. Watch the science channel. Pick up a copy of Scientific American. All thise will tell you what the scientific consensus is. Oh, and turn off Fox "News". "

Like I said in my prior post.

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Author: WuLong Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1862077 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/24/2013 5:50 PM
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4. The IPCC never uses or presents these values to project global temperatures in the first decade of the 21st century.
To use your own words, BULLCRAP.

Since IPCC’s first report in 1990, assessed projections have suggested global average temperature increases between about 0.15°C and 0.3°C per decade for 1990 to 2005.
http://www.ipcc.ch/publications_and_data/ar4/wg1/en/spmsspm-...
(note how I linked to the IPCC? Cool, huh? Try it sometime.)

Please, oh puh-lease explain in your ever so helpful manner how that is a) not a projection (I mean OMG they even use the word projection), b) not a temperature(hint: °C is a measure of temperature), and c) not covering the first decade of the 21st century (when is 2005?).

Oh, and again (for like the 3rd time), reality was 0.162°C which they rounded to about 0.2°C instead of admitting that it was at the bottom end of their projection.

Stay strong, oh troll.

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Author: eatenbybears Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1862078 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/24/2013 5:57 PM
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If you read any scientific publications, you already know that most experts disagree with you.


Seems they dont .... most are quite level headed and unwilling to respond with a knee jerk based on very limited data or jump on to global warming hysteria


Of 528 total papers on climate change, only 38 (7%) gave an explicit endorsement of the consensus. If one considers "implicit" endorsement (accepting the consensus without explicit statement), the figure rises to 45%. However, while only 32 papers (6%) reject the consensus outright, the largest category (48%) are neutral papers, refusing to either accept or reject the hypothesis. This is no "consensus."

The figures are even more shocking when one remembers the watered-down definition of consensus here. Not only does it not require supporting that man is the "primary" cause of warming, but it doesn't require any belief or support for "catastrophic" global warming. In fact of all papers published in this period (2004 to February 2007), only a single one makes any reference to climate change leading to catastrophic results.

These changing viewpoints represent the advances in climate science over the past decade. While today we are even more certain the earth is warming, we are less certain about the root causes. More importantly, research has shown us that -- whatever the cause may be -- the amount of warming is unlikely to cause any great calamity for mankind or the planet itself.


http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.B...


Bears

Who knows the earth is warming but understands man is just a pimple on the earths butt

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Author: FoolishWaldo Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1862087 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/24/2013 6:38 PM
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I can't stop laughing. Bears is citing 'junkscience.com', founded by Steven Milloy, the nonscientist blogger who spent decades proving that 'cigarettes don't kill' for Philip Morris - as his source.


At first SpitOutByBears was afraid that if he didn't post people might think he's an idiot. So he decided to post in order to remove all doubt.

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Author: nigelwhalmsley Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1862129 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/24/2013 11:27 PM
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"Bears. Who knows the earth is warming but understands man is just a pimple on the earths butt"

I know. You wouldn't change your mind for any reason. Ever. Enjoy your reality.

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Author: eatenbybears Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1862133 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/24/2013 11:54 PM
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"Bears. Who knows the earth is warming but understands man is just a pimple on the earths butt"

I know. You wouldn't change your mind for any reason. Ever. Enjoy your reality.


Just passing by the computer, but had to say ...... I would change my mind if I could understand why people are so concerned over glaciers melting the past 200 years or so, but dont consider that they have been melting for 12-18,000 years.

This has been an enlightening thread.

Started with the 97% of climate researchers believe in man made global warming

to the realization that that number (97%) came from a google search (called research, and someone did get paid to do it) that resulted in maybe 1600 individuals who had articles out there (more than 10 ea name was required to make the list)

Then someone called me on how high a number that was

Then we find that many thousands of scientists have petitioned to not accept man made global warming, and a number of those are some of the big name global warming hypes of pre 2007.

Seems that man made global warming is losing its following ,,,, guess they have sapped all the money out of it they could

Good evening

Bears

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Author: JDCRex Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1862141 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/25/2013 2:55 AM
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To use your own words, BULLCRAP.

Read the ENTIRE sentence - every word of it.

And read it in context of what the author was saying: that is that Monckton is MISREPRESENTING WHAT THE IPCC SAID.

HERE is the sentence:

The IPCC never uses or presents these values to project global temperatures in the first decade of the 21st century.

HERE are the important words:

these values

Again:

these values

ONCE MORE:

THESE VALUES

Monckton has cherry-picked and massaged the numbers spoken about in the link provided to draw his worthless conclusions. He does so because he is a paid liar, self-publiciser and raving mad fruitcake.

But what's your excuse?

Oh, and again (for like the 3rd time), reality was 0.162°C which they rounded to about 0.2°C

Which time frame are you talking about here?

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Author: HMALETTER Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1862146 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/25/2013 7:59 AM
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The IPCC hypothesis has always centered on the premise that only man could have caused the changes. Then their models set out to measure the changes, and predict the future changes. In doing so, as they freely admitted, their models ignored many other factors that added both to the complexity of the model, and questions regarding their original hypothesis.

Their answer to the lack of warming has been to accuse man-made burning of fossil fuels as the reason for their warming estimates being so far off. So the theory goes, if every country matches the US in emissions targets, we'll warm up quickly. How ironic is that?

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Author: eatenbybears Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1862147 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/25/2013 8:16 AM
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You cant really use the IPCC data for much any more. The last Assessment Report was 2007, so the data is 6 years old.

Those looking at the date are finding a different story than we have been told .... maybe explaining the 6 year gap in IPCC reports

From 2/10/2013

The adjacent chart plots 30-year changes in HadCRUT3 global temperature dataset, which is considered the gold-standard by the IPCC and the world’s scientists.

The chart’s starting point is January 1880, which represents the first data point (pink circle) of a 30-year temperature change, from January 1850 to January 1880. The chart’s last plot point (green circle) is the difference from December 1982 to December 2012.

The black curve is the simple 5-year average (60-month moving) of all the 30-year changes. And the light grey curve is the plot of monthly CO2 atmospheric CO2 levels from 1880 through 2012.

Per this gold-standard empirical evidence, one can safely conclude the following:

#1. CO2 levels have consistently increased, with short pauses, over this extended period.

#2. 30-year temperature changes peaked both in 1939 and 1998, and then subsequently declined indicating a more powerful-than-CO2, non-greenhouse gas influence at work.

#3. Higher CO2 levels are not causing tipping point, runaway, accelerating, rapid, irreversible, dangerous and/or tipping point long-term global temperature changes, which is contrary to all conventional and “consensus” IPCC expert opinions and their climate models.

#4. The simple 5-year moving average curve during the very recent past indicates a declining period for 30-year changes, possibly signalling an extended cooling phase is upon us.

#5. The 30-year temperature changes, prior to the post-1960 consumer/industrial surge in human CO2 emissions, rival those of the modern up/down 30-year changes, in terms of amount, duration and speed.

#6. Long-term (30 year) global temperature change appears to follow an up and down pattern – an oscillation phenomenon, so to speak, that occurs regardless of CO2 levels.

#7. Since this oscillation is not being produced by higher CO2 levels, then some natural phenomenon is likely driving long-term global temperature change, overwhelming the apparent trivial impact of CO2.

http://www.thegwpf.org/co2-appears-small-effect-long-term-cl...

Bears

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Author: HMALETTER Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1862156 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/25/2013 9:54 AM
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I've noted that the IPCC has tried valiantly to come up with ever dire reasons why the evidence doesn't match their earlier conclusions. It's quite creative really.

Now, when everyone stops burning fossil fuels, we'll Really warm up;)




http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/12/13/ipcc-ar5-draft-leaked-...

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Author: jgc123 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1862157 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/25/2013 9:58 AM
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1. Bears dances from one industry funded fraudulent site to another:

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Global_Warming_Po...

2. If you actually read the IPCC AR4 you will start to understand the science, after which you will easily see why the Exxon funded denial sites posted by bears are fraudulent.

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Author: jgc123 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1862158 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/25/2013 10:01 AM
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HMAletter and bears are peppering this thread with sources, wattsupwiththat and gwpf, that have been repeatedly caught fraudulently misrepresenting the evidence for years. One has to wonder why? Are they paid by exxon? Or merely willing dupes?

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Author: Stonewashed Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1862162 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/25/2013 10:35 AM
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HMAletter and bears are peppering this thread with sources, wattsupwiththat and gwpf, that have been repeatedly caught fraudulently misrepresenting the evidence for years. One has to wonder why? Are they paid by exxon? Or merely willing dupes?
_________________________

Let's pretend, for arguments sake, every single piece of evidence presented for anthropogenic caused global warming is entirely made up. Then to make it even more dicey, let's pretend, for arguments sake, that the IPCC is an angelic organization that doesn't pepper a thing that they rubber stamp and doesn't contain an iota of bias or has a political agenda.

How does a zero sum game of taxing carbon emissions (only in developed countries, mind you) do diddly to solve the problem of "global warming' nka climate change?

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Author: Stonewashed Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1862163 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/25/2013 10:36 AM
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Let's pretend, for arguments sake, every single piece of evidence presented for anthropogenic caused global warming is entirely made up.
____________

make that

Let's pretend, for arguments sake, every single piece of evidence presented against anthropogenic caused global warming is entirely made up.

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Author: eatenbybears Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1862164 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/25/2013 10:36 AM
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If you actually read the IPCC AR4 you will start to understand the science, after which you will easily see why the Exxon funded denial sites posted by bears are fraudulent.

They have not updated their report since 2007 ..... foolish people still quote based on 6 year old data.

They are working on AR5 and it looks like the data is corrupt already.

Their biggest problem is that latest reports from others that show temps have been relatively flat while CO2 has risen ... seems there may be no relationship.

The earth is getting hotter, no doubt. Man's ego may make him feel he has some long term effect ..... but in reality he is of little consequence except in specific locations because man is a slob.

Bears

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Author: eatenbybears Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1862170 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/25/2013 11:02 AM
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How does a zero sum game of taxing carbon emissions (only in developed countries, mind you) do diddly to solve the problem of "global warming' nka climate change?

Al Gore's Carbon exchange had to close down

But not before he made $18 million dollars


No doubt, the most brilliant X vice president we ever had, played the Global warming hysteria into mega millions.

Bears

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Author: jgc123 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1862181 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/25/2013 11:34 AM
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bears: "Man's ego may make him feel he has some long term effect .."

The long term effect of increased CO2 is being worked out in great detail by a thing called "mathematics".

Richard Muller, the world famous geophysicist who expressed doubts about the findings of the IPCC, was paid by the Koch brothers to debunk the findings of the IPCC with a detailed study called the BEST project.

Instead, they determined that the findings of the IPCC were, if anything, conservative. If you want to learn more about the science, read the IPCC AR4. Then read some of the materials provided by NASA and NOAA in recent years. Then read about the BEST project:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berkeley_Earth_Surface_Temperat...

bears: "Their biggest problem is that latest reports from others that show temps have been relatively flat while CO2 has risen ... seems there may be no relationship."

The problem is that the above statement by you is a bald faced lie no matter how many times the Exxon funded sites repeat it. And it will continue to be a lie no matter how many times you repeat it.

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Author: eatenbybears Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1862187 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/25/2013 11:45 AM
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Again

If the end of the Glacial period was 12,000 years ago and glaciers have been melting and receding since then .... why is the last 200 years such an eye catcher?

Well beside the huge money that can be made by supporting man made Global warming .... but that is changing

The Hysteria is over


Bears

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Author: jgc123 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1862190 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/25/2013 11:54 AM
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bears: "If the end of the Glacial period was 12,000 years ago and glaciers have been melting and receding since then .... why is the last 200 years such an eye catcher?"

The answer to your question lies in looking at "evidence" which is made up of "facts" which are analyzed with a tool called "math". Here is a snippet from the site you didn't read:

"After completing the analysis of the full land temperature data set, consisting of more than 1.6 billion temperature measurements dating back to the 1800s from 15 sources around the world, and originated from more than 39,000 temperature stations worldwide, the group submitted four papers for peer-review and publication in scientific journals...... Muller announced further findings from the project. He said their analysis showed that average global land temperatures had increased by 2.5 °F (1.4 °C) in 250 years, with the increase in the last 50 years being 1.5 °F (0.8 °C), and it seemed likely that this increase was entirely due to human caused greenhouse gas emissions....

'"Call me a converted skeptic. Three years ago I identified problems in previous climate studies that, in my mind, threw doubt on the very existence of global warming. Last year, following an intensive research effort involving a dozen scientists, I concluded that global warming was real and that the prior estimates of the rate of warming were correct. I'm now going a step further: Humans are almost entirely the cause."

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Author: WuLong Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1862192 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/25/2013 12:09 PM
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This will be my last response to you since you clearly cannot parse English very well.

Which time frame are you talking about here?
Baby steps - let's return to the IPCC statemtnent.
Since IPCC’s first report in 1990, assessed projections have suggested global average temperature increases between about 0.15°C and 0.3°C per decade for 1990 to 2005.
http://www.ipcc.ch/publications_and_data/ar4/wg1/en/spmsspm-...
Look at the end of that sentence. You'll see that the period in question is 1990 to 2005. Sheesh.

They go on to say This can now be compared with observed values of about 0.2°C per decade, which was overstatement.
Note how they say .2 and not .20? That means something in science. It means they rounded, and that the true value is between .15 and .25. That covers 2/3 of their predicted range. Nice, huh.
Go pull the NOAA values yourself (you know, rigor) and you'll see that the difference in 5yr averages during that period is .162 per decade.

Also, they say For the next two decades, a warming of about 0.2°C per decade is projected for a range of SRES emission scenarios.
Not even close.
In reality, the maximum velocity of temperature increase was .22°C per decade and occurred in 1999.

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Author: 1poorguy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1862194 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/25/2013 12:17 PM
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Well beside the huge money that can be made by supporting man made Global warming ....

The money is made on the other side of the question. The deniers are making a fortune by delaying government action that would affect their business.

Then they dupe people like you into believing that scientists all got together in some grand conspiracy to convince us that humans are changing the climate.

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Author: eatenbybears Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1862199 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/25/2013 12:43 PM
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Muller announced further findings from the project. He said their analysis showed that average global land temperatures had increased by 2.5 °F (1.4 °C) in 250 years, with the increase in the last 50 years being 1.5 °F (0.8 °C), and it seemed likely that this increase was entirely due to human caused greenhouse gas emissions....


Muller sure blows holes through much of the Global Warming Hysteria

Published: July 28, 2012

It’s a scientist’s duty to be properly skeptical. I still find that much, if not most, of what is attributed to climate change is speculative, exaggerated or just plain wrong. I’ve analyzed some of the most alarmist claims, and my skepticism about them hasn’t changed.

Hurricane Katrina cannot be attributed to global warming. The number of hurricanes hitting the United States has been going down, not up; likewise for intense tornadoes. Polar bears aren’t dying from receding ice, and the Himalayan glaciers aren’t going to melt by 2035. And it’s possible that we are currently no warmer than we were a thousand years ago, during the “Medieval Warm Period” or “Medieval Optimum,” an interval of warm conditions known from historical records and indirect evidence like tree rings. And the recent warm spell in the United States happens to be more than offset by cooling elsewhere in the world, so its link to “global” warming is weaker than tenuous.



http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/30/opinion/the-conversion-of-...

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Author: JDCRex Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1862241 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/25/2013 3:57 PM
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This will be my last response to you since you clearly cannot parse English very well.

Hilarious - given that you are the one who cannot seem to understand what the inclusion of the words "THESE VALUES" meant to the proposition.

Also, they say For the next two decades, a warming of about 0.2°C per decade is projected for a range of SRES emission scenarios.

That is from the the Fourth Assessment report. What time frame are you claiming it covers?

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Author: WuLong Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1862252 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/25/2013 5:10 PM
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Also, they say For the next two decades, a warming of about 0.2°C per decade is projected for a range of SRES emission scenarios.
---
That is from the the Fourth Assessment report. What time frame are you claiming it covers?


Parsing really isn't your strong suit. What part of the next two decades is unclear to you?
Given that it is the 2007 report (you can tell because at the top it says IPCC Fourth Assessment Report: Climate Change 2007), one would think that covers the period 2007 forward for two decades. That would be, oh, 2007-2027?

And since the rate of warming has been decelerating for the last 14 years (my calcs are down to .05°C per decade and decrease every month), that's gonna be a hard target to hit.

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Author: JDCRex Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1862306 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/26/2013 1:18 AM
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Parsing really isn't your strong suit.

Again - hilarious coming from someone who didn't understand the modifying impacts of two common words.

That would be, oh, 2007-2027?

Exactly. Had to make sure, though - given your demonstrated reliance on fecal matter as a source and your fanciful conclusions and frames of reference. Which leads to...

And since the rate of warming has been decelerating for the last 14 years (my calcs are down to .05°C per decade and decrease every month)

What's your source?

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Author: WuLong Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1862374 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/26/2013 11:09 AM
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What's your source?
Hilarious. Clearly you are dragging this out because you are incapable of responding. Not unexpected.
Do you ever answer a question, or just make requests that have already been answered repeatedly?

Sigh. I know, parsing really isn't your strong suit.
What part NOAA is unclear to you?

Go pull the NOAA values yourself (you know, rigor) and you'll see that the difference in 5yr averages during that period is .162 per decade.
http://boards.fool.com/this-will-be-my-last-response-to-you-...

I know salaryguru and JCDRex will never address that point head on
Data: ftp://ftp.ncdc.noaa.gov/pub/data/anomalies/monthly.land_ocea...

boards.fool.com/has-been-proven-to-openly-lie-and-present-bo...

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Author: JDCRex Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1862520 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/27/2013 3:11 AM
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Sigh. I know, parsing really isn't your strong suit.

Again - hilarious coming from someone who missed the meaning of two simple English words.

What part NOAA is unclear to you?

Nothing.

The data you're linking to is surface land and ocean.

Here's a subtle hint:

Those oceans are mighty deep.

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Author: WuLong Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1862585 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/27/2013 12:55 PM
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I know salaryguru and JCDRex will never address that point head on
Thanks for proving me correct.

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Author: JDCRex Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1862709 of 1947664
Subject: Re: I dont believe man causes Global Warming Date: 2/28/2013 2:48 AM
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