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Author: TartyMae Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 35757  
Subject: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/26/2004 4:03 PM
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I had a wonderful time on vaction at the SDCC.

(Oh, friend with baby at Rock Bottom promptly draped herself with a shawl, breast fed her baby, and the baby slept all through dinner)

Okay, back to the thread of this post.

Sunday is "kids" day at the San Diego Comics Con. Most of the panel tracks are kid friendly, and several artists that I know who normally don't give adults sketches are happy to put a silly doodle in a kid's book. (Scott Hampton, for example, closes his eyes and draws.)

Over at the DC comics area, the artists put in longish shifts and know that they'll be asked to draw characters they don't normally draw. And the artists draw knowing that often times the kids and the parents have no idea who they are or who some of the characters are.

1) Teach your kid that you don't zoom up to and slam in to a table to see what the guy is drawing. Some artists draw straight in ink. I saw a sketch that an artist had worked a good 10 minutes on get completely screwed up because of ::WHAM!!:: and that sharpie just skidded across the page.

2) Teach yourself and your kid to have some manners if the artist behind the table isn't familiar with what you've asked them to draw. Your (clueless) kid is getting a free sketch from some of the finest illustrators and artists on the planet. That Italian guy behind the table is 50 years old, doesn't speak english that well, and is known for drawing a comic called Hellblazer, okay? He's not that familiar with Yu-Gi-Oh or Pokemon. Which leads to my next point ...

3) Have a freaking clue about who's line you're in and what they do. If you don't know, ask. I had no problem telling the mom (holding a place in line for her 12 year old daughter) that this artist is noted for drawing Starman

And for crying out loud, when you get up to the table, after 30 minutes in line, don't insult the person on the other end by telling him/her that they're not an artist because they're an inker, colorist, or writer. Your cranky 5 year old doesn't read their books anyway, but would probably like to have whatever silly (or kick ass) drawing they create. (A colorist and I got a bit of a laugh when a mother huffed off "Oh, you're not an artist" -- the guy in question has a BFA, and teaches people how to use photoshop. Yes, he has zero artistic talent.)

4) I don't care that it's kids day, your kid gets to learn to wait in line.

Yes, waiting in line sucks. Waiting in line to get a sketch from an artist whose work you've admired for years is no fun, especially if you're racing the clock because you know from a friend in common that as soon as 12:30 hits he's going back to his hotel, picking up his bag, and hopping a flight to Denmark. Oh, and this guy rarely comes to the con.

And if I am a bitch for not letting your 3 year old cut in front of me, well then, I wear it with pride.

Your kid does not know who this artist is, has never read one of his works, and guess what, there are 3 kids behind me who have been waiting (as patiently as they can) for 45 minutes.

Oh, and when I said,sorry, no, the line is behind me, and that you and your son need to get in it, and letting you in is not fair to those who've waited, I just want you to know that as I stepped forward, the first thing out of the artist's mouth to me was a comment on your rudeness.

And, by the time I reached him, as cool as he was with all the kids, he was happy to have a short conversation with somebody who genuinely knew his work and liked it, and asked for a character he knew how to draw.






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Author: Frydaze1 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24621 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/26/2004 5:27 PM
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And if I am a bitch for not letting your 3 year old cut in front of me, well then, I wear it with pride.

Amen

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Author: johnmoni Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24623 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/26/2004 11:39 PM
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"Your (clueless) kid is getting a free sketch from some of the finest illustrators and artists on the planet. That Italian guy behind the table is 50 years old, doesn't speak english that well, and is known for drawing a comic called Hellblazer, okay? He's not that familiar with Yu-Gi-Oh or Pokemon."

You know . . . I felt the same way you did till our son was born. Prior to that, I was always cranky when I saw a kid act up in public: "Why can't those parents control him" I used to think. Now, with our son 3 years and a few months, I realize that the world revolves around him, not me. While I agree that rudeness is unacceptable, I'd stand in line happily for 12 hours for that beautiful little boy. I'm not impatient any more - nothing is that important except his happiness. And the 50 year old Italian guy . . . well, he was a kid once too.

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Author: cazelski One star, 50 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24624 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/27/2004 12:01 AM
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You know . . . I felt the same way you did till our son was born. Prior to that, I was always cranky when I saw a kid act up in public...

It's well known that having a kid changes your brain chemistry so that you think your kid is the most wonderful and intelligent child on the planet...no matter how much evidence there is to the contrary.

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Author: TartyMae Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24625 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/27/2004 12:58 AM
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John, my point is, parents (and kids) should not get huffy at the artist because he doesn't know the characters from Yu-Gi-Oh or Pokemon or whatever.

The guy was trying his best, but these people had no reference and because the artist didn't speak english very well, the descriptions they tried to give didn't much help.

The Italian guy wanted to be nice, but at the end of the day, he was out on a limb.

He would've happily drawn any character he knew.

It's not his fault he's not a Pokemon fan.





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Author: chkNYC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24626 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/27/2004 8:20 AM
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Now, with our son 3 years and a few months, I realize that the world revolves around him, not me.

I'm hoping that what you meant to say was "I realize that MY world revolves around him, not me".

I say this because while I think that it's wonderful that YOUR world revolves around your son, please note that MY world doesn't.

And I just wish that more parents realized this.

Christina

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Author: rruyy Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24629 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/27/2004 9:59 AM
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I say this because while I think that it's wonderful that YOUR world revolves around your son, please note that MY world doesn't.


I think everyone who doesn't want to have kids should have kids and everyone who does want to have kids shouldn't have kids. I think this is the only way kids can be raised right.

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Author: TartyMae Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24630 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/27/2004 11:13 AM
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I think everyone who doesn't want to have kids should have kids and everyone who does want to have kids shouldn't have kids. I think this is the only way kids can be raised right>>

Heh. I was having a conversation with a friend of mine in which I asked after his 14 month old daughter. He was telling me how she's learning to talk and has almost figured out how to string together a sentence. (They read to her a lot, and spend a lot of the day talking to her.)

He asked if I planed to have kids. I said no, and explained that while everthing works, bad back, etc etc etc. I also explained that a cousin of mine has 5 kids so my brother and I figure that he had ours.

My friend said I should steal one of those kids because, "I'm dying to know what a kid raised by you would be like. I think any kid raised by you would be really interesting."

And while I am flattered that he thinks I would be a good parent, I'm still not planning to kidnap one of my little cousins.





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Author: overspent Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24631 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/27/2004 11:27 AM
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All right, CF lads and lasses, it's time for another round of Breeder Bingo!

You know . . . I felt the same way you did till our son was born

B

Prior to that, I was always cranky when I saw a kid act up in public: "Why can't those parents control him" I used to think. Now, with our son 3 years and a few months, I realize that the world revolves around him, not me.

I

While I agree that rudeness is unacceptable, I'd stand in line happily for 12 hours for that beautiful little boy.

N

I'm not impatient any more - nothing is that important except his happiness.

G

And the 50 year old Italian guy . . . well, he was a kid once too.

Oh, that one's a classic -- and it gives us BINGO!


overspent
...finds bingo boring...prefers videogames...

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Author: mschmit Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24633 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/27/2004 1:37 PM
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John, my point is, parents (and kids) should not get huffy at the artist because he doesn't know the characters from Yu-Gi-Oh or Pokemon or whatever.

The guy was trying his best, but these people had no reference and because the artist didn't speak english very well, the descriptions they tried to give didn't much help.

The Italian guy wanted to be nice, but at the end of the day, he was out on a limb.


Then wouldn't that be the fault of the organizers of the event rather than of the parents, kids or the artist?

Mike


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Author: tconi Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24634 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/27/2004 1:52 PM
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Then wouldn't that be the fault of the organizers of the event rather than of the parents, kids or the artist?

Not so much.
Example:
One is standing in a loooong line for a word with Bill Watterson* or Stan Lee** but there is a language barrier as well.
There is a small child who gets to him and asks for a drawing of a Yu-Gi-Oh character.
There will be frustration on both sides.
The organizers set up the event and people come because of who will be there. They choose which lines they want to wait in based on their own criteria.
I know If I were going to wait 40 minutes in line (and subject my child to the wait) for 30 seconds with someone, it would be someone I had at least heard of....

peace & comics
t

*Calvin & Hobbes writer/illustrator
*Spiderman writer/illustrator

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Author: eudaimon6 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24637 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/27/2004 4:03 PM
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Then wouldn't that be the fault of the organizers of the event rather than of the parents, kids or the artist?

Mike



mike,

lete pretend i organize a bridge tournament. you dont know how to play bridge, and dont want to learn. but you come anyway. is it my fault if you are bored, or yours?

so someone organizes a "comics festival" and some parents dont know that some comics are really for adults, or they dont care, or whatever. whose fault is it that the kids dont enjoy the comics festival? the artists, the organizers, the kids or their ignorant parents?

thanks for playing.


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Author: malibu114 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24640 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/27/2004 6:44 PM
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I say this because while I think that it's wonderful that YOUR world revolves around your son, please note that MY world doesn't.

Very well said Christina.

Donna

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Author: mschmit Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24641 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/27/2004 7:48 PM
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>>Then wouldn't that be the fault of the organizers of the event rather than of the parents, kids or the artist?

Not so much.
Example:
One is standing in a loooong line for a word with Bill Watterson* or Stan Lee** but there is a language barrier as well.
There is a small child who gets to him and asks for a drawing of a Yu-Gi-Oh character.


Maybe I wasn't specific enough...perhaps the organizers should have put up signs behind each artist...including their names, what comics they write, country etc. Sure, at an adult event maybe this isn't required...but it was KIDS day. Maybe each artist would then "sign" their signs with their trademark character, etc. It doesn't have to be difficult.

Mike

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Author: TartyMae Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24642 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/27/2004 8:00 PM
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Maybe each artist would then "sign" their signs with their trademark character, etc. It doesn't have to be difficult.>>

Or you could simply ask whose line this is and what they draw. ;)

Plenty of booth staff handy to guide lines.



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Author: johnmoni Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24644 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/27/2004 11:21 PM
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"I say this because while I think that it's wonderful that YOUR world revolves around your son, please note that MY world doesn't."

I did mean to say that MY world revolves around our son. Nothing annoys me more when I/we go somewhere, and another parent assumes I'll watch their kids because their busy, disinterested or whatever. The only kid I'm worried about is our own.

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Author: johnmoni Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24645 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/27/2004 11:24 PM
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"One is standing in a loooong line for a word with Bill Watterson* or Stan Lee** but there is a language barrier as well."

Stan Lee is Italian? Really? I've seen him interviewed, and he didn't seem to have a language barrier - unless we're talking about 2 different Stan Lee's.

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Author: johnmoni Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24646 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/27/2004 11:28 PM
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"I say this because while I think that it's wonderful that YOUR world revolves around your son, please note that MY world doesn't."

I'm just curious - do you really dislike kids as much as your post makes it seem? I'm not judging, but am always fascinated when people say, "I hate kids."

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Author: Neuferland Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24647 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/27/2004 11:37 PM
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Now, with our son 3 years and a few months, I realize that the world revolves around him, not me. While I agree that rudeness is unacceptable, I'd stand in line happily for 12 hours for that beautiful little boy. I'm not impatient any more - nothing is that important except his happiness. And the 50 year old Italian guy . . . well, he was a kid once too.

Then you do that, but don't expect your son to stand in line with you. The OP was talking about the 3 year olds that were forced to stand in line so the parents could get sketches.

As for the world revolving around him? Oh PLEASE! I have three kids and the one thing that gets drilled into their heads from the moment they can understand is that the world DOES NOT revolve around them. That is the worst message you could give your kid, God help the first teacher who gets that child and the first time he throws a fit in school because he didn't get his way. I know a child like that and talk about some of the problems I have seen with that kid when she first started school would make Mother Teresa's hair stand on end. Now that she's approaching 4th grade she's starting to realize that there are other people in the world and they have rights too. Just barely realizing that sadly.

Deannda
teach your children they are part of the entire world, not just the center of it

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Author: malibu114 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24648 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/27/2004 11:50 PM
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I'm just curious - do you really dislike kids as much as your post makes it seem? I'm not judging, but am always fascinated when people say, "I hate kids."

I'm not her, but I think I can safely say she doesn't hate kids, actually it's quite the contrary. She is just saying her life doesn't revolve around them.

Donna

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Author: Neuferland Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24649 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/27/2004 11:51 PM
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"I say this because while I think that it's wonderful that YOUR world revolves around your son, please note that MY world doesn't."

I'm just curious - do you really dislike kids as much as your post makes it seem? I'm not judging, but am always fascinated when people say, "I hate kids."


Where did she say she hated kids? She merely stated that her world did not revolve around your child, neither does mine. Heck my world does not revolve around my kids, they are certainly a large part of it but I still have a life outside of my kids.

Deannda
Encouraging my kids to elope and be childless, I don't want revenge on them :)

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Author: johnmoni Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24650 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/27/2004 11:54 PM
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"As for the world revolving around him? Oh PLEASE! I have three kids and the one thing that gets drilled into their heads from the moment they can understand is that the world DOES NOT revolve around them."

I meant to say that my world revolves around him. As my Dad did for us, I'd get up at 3:00 in the morning during the proverbial snowstorm if he needed something. For me, his needs come first, mine second. I do not expect the rest of the world to feel that way. That's why I can't stand this "it takes a village" routine about raising kids. I'll raise my own, thank you. I don't need the village's help.

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Author: 1HappyFool Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24651 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/28/2004 12:22 AM
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Where did she say she hated kids? She merely stated that her world did not revolve around your child, neither does mine. Heck my world does not revolve around my kids, they are certainly a large part of it but I still have a life outside of my kids.

Deannda


It's good to see that some of the parents understand the fallacy of the logical leap between expecting parents to be respectful of others and hating kids. I don't think any of the CF hate kids. We just recognize that it's rude and irresponsible for their parents to not keep them from becoming problems, inconveniences, distractions, endangerers, liabilities, etc... for other adults. If you wouldn't let your dog go bother somebody, why would you let your kid go bother somebody? And if you would let your dog go bother somebody, shame on you.

1HF


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Author: tconi Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24652 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/28/2004 7:49 AM
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"One is standing in a loooong line for a word with Bill Watterson* or Stan Lee** but there is a language barrier as well."
---------------------------------------------------------
Stan Lee is Italian? Really? I've seen him interviewed, and he didn't seem to have a language barrier - unless we're talking about 2 different Stan Lee's.


I was just using these men as a for instance since they and their characters are fairly well known - see emphasis above...

peace & illustrating the point (not very well I guess)
t




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Author: chkNYC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24654 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/28/2004 8:32 AM
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Mr: "I say this because while I think that it's wonderful that YOUR world revolves around your son, please note that MY world doesn't."

johnmoni: I'm just curious - do you really dislike kids as much as your post makes it seem? I'm not judging, but am always fascinated when people say, "I hate kids."

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Well, I'm not judging either (and I'm certainly not "fascinated") but I do wonder about someone's thought process when they take a simple statement like "MY world doesn't revolve around YOUR son" and somehow interpret that to mean "I dislike kids" or "I hate kids".

Christina




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Author: eudaimon6 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24655 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/28/2004 10:13 AM
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johnmoni: I'm just curious - do you really dislike kids as much as your post makes it seem? I'm not judging, but am always fascinated when people say, "I hate kids."

Where did you read the post that included the line "i hate kids"

was it on this board?
was it posted by someone like you who is accusing some of us here of hating kids?

just so you know, and not that it is really relevant to this discussion, but i have a couple stepsons, and im very proud of them. i love children. it was very difficult for me to decide to marry my wife, because i knew she had had her tubes tied and was not having any more children.

so anyway, either show us where anyone here said "i hate kids" or quit making stuff up.

have a nice day

dean

oh-and here's a link to where i talk about my kids.


http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=19126802&sort=recommendations

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Author: MaestroCindi Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24656 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/28/2004 10:25 AM
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If you wouldn't let your dog go bother somebody, why would you let your kid go bother somebody?

Because there are laws making dog owners directly responsible for what their dogs do. Until parents are held to the same standards, many just won't get it.

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Author: 1HappyFool Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24658 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/28/2004 10:44 AM
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<<If you wouldn't let your dog go bother somebody, why would you let your kid go bother somebody? >>

Because there are laws making dog owners directly responsible for what their dogs do. Until parents are held to the same standards, many just won't get it.

Good point. I forgot that once you become a parent you fight for your kid's legal rights and to heck with everybody else's. At least until the kid tries to get a court order against you for invasion of privacy after you confiscate his drugs. <g>

1HF


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Author: eudaimon6 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24659 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/28/2004 11:37 AM
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I meant to say that my world revolves around him. As my Dad did for us, I'd get up at 3:00 in the morning during the proverbial snowstorm if he needed something. For me, his needs come first, mine second. I do not expect the rest of the world to feel that way. That's why I can't stand this "it takes a village" routine about raising kids. I'll raise my own, thank you. I don't need the village's help.

your post struck me on so many different levels.

1. Why would you need to get up at 3:00 in the morning because your kid needed something? I mean really, why? Because you ran out of diapers? That's not the kids need, that's your failure to plan. Because of a medical emergency? Well, I'd get up at 3:00 to take my neighbor to the hospital, or any other human being, if that was really the only way to get them there. It hasn't happened yet and I'm 40, so its not like I'm stepping out on a limb here.

2. So you dont want anyone else to help you raise your kids? Well, I have a bulletin for you-they're involved whether you like it or not. Your kid will spend way more waking hours in the company of other folks over the timespan 0-18 than he/she will with you, unless you're going to homeschool your kid in your basement. Here is a typical day in my 15 year old's life.

during school
630 I get up to go to work, he gets up to go to school. We say good morning while we're showering, getting dressed, eating breakfast, etc. I leave at 730, he leaves at 745. Not a lot of quality time there.
He gets home from school around 630 after practice. We eat dinner-fortyfive minutes to an hour of quality time. He does homework, his mother and i do parent stuff. Around 10 we all go to sleep. If he has a game we may lose out on dinner together. In an average day we have about an hour to an hour and a half of real interaction. How could we go about changing that?

So he spends most of the day with teachers, coaches and other kids.

On weekends
Saturday-being a normal kid, he wants to go hang out with his buddies. Sometimes they're at our house, sometimes they're at his buddies house. Given that he has four or five pretty close friends, it works out that most of the time he's at his buddies house. That meanS his buddy's parent's are the ones supervising him. Since I've troubled myself to get to know those folks, I'm cool with that. So aside from doing some yardwork and chores around the house in the morning, I don't see him that much on Saturdays because, like most teenagers, he wants to spend his Saturdays with his friends. Something wrong with that? Of course, when it is his turn to have the guys over, then I'm supervising the whole crowd. Sometimes that can be a lot of fun.

Sunday-Sunday mornings are always family time. No exceptions, except the unfortunately too rare weekends he spends with his biological father. So far this year that's been twice. It's a damn shame and there's not much I can do about it. But most weekends it's the only time all week that we spend three or five hours together without interruption. This is a big deal.

Sunday evenings-he's started sitting in on my Sunday night poker game. He's learned that he's playing with a bunch of guys who learned poker in the service or at college thirty years ago, and they know what they're doing. He's learned to hold his own. Since he is polite and well behaved and reasonably bright, he is welcome. I think it's cool.

So even though he and I have a fairly good relationship and spend quite a bit more time together than i ever did with my father, I know damn well that there are a lot of adults who spend way more time with him than I do. I'm cool with that, because I know those adults and they're good people.

Now a significant part of my situation is that I live in a very small town. Some of the relationships with other adults that I enjoy might not work as well in a bigger city. But they would exist whether I wanted them to or not. Kids spend six or seven hours every day with teachers. Kids who play sports spend another hour or two nearly every day with their coaches. Kids who make decent grades spend an hour or two every day on homework and studying. Parents who have a clue know all this limits the amount of time kids can spend with their parents, and extends the amount of influence other adults have over their children. If you ignore these facts, you do so at your own peril.

just some thoughts on the realities of kids.

dean


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Author: ChiliChild Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24662 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/28/2004 1:33 PM
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I'm just curious - do you really dislike kids as much as your post makes it seem? I'm not judging, but am always fascinated when people say, "I hate kids."


1. I happen to know CHKNYC and that she does not hate children and I'm hoping you didn't hurt yourself (too much) with that conclusion leap.

2. I'm just curious--why do you post at the CHOOSING NOT TO HAVE KIDS board? Really. What is your agenda? What makes you think your posts would be welcome or even add anything to the discussion? I'm not judging, but you won't find me at the Parenting Board implying that they are self-centered, self-righteous, sanctimonious creatures because they have kids. I don't ever go to that board. It would be RUDE. Fascinating what brings people like you here.

This is a board where you should expect to read things you may not approve of; you might even be offended, but why don't you run to the Parenting Board and call us the "I Hate Kids Board," (BTW, that's not a new moniker, other defensive parents have already made that inaccurate accusation numerous times) and start a back-patting campaign? There are parents here who add to the discussion and are welcome.

Why are you so defensive about being a parent? Are you jealous of us?

Not judging, just curious.

Gayle
likes kids a little; finds self-centered, santimonious parents unbearable




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Author: overspent Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24663 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/28/2004 2:42 PM
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I'm just curious - do you really dislike kids as much as your post makes it seem? I'm not judging, but am always fascinated when people say, "I hate kids."

Here's a question for you -- if your world revolves around your son, then what are you doing here?

::clears throat::

::points to board title::

And BTW, "why do you hate children so much?" is another phrase for the Breeder Bingo card. Keep it up, and the whole damned card will be full.


overspent
...likes some children
...indifferent to most children
...hates brats
...hates insufferably smug, cliche-spouting parents most of all

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Author: HuffyLilPoon Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24664 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/28/2004 3:15 PM
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I'm just curious - do you really dislike kids as much as your post makes it seem? I'm not judging, but am always fascinated when people say, "I hate kids."

I didn't get that impression at all from her post. It's really irritating when parents think that unless you love children as much as they do, that you're a childhater.

HLP

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Author: XWordPhile Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24665 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/28/2004 4:03 PM
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I'm not judging, but am always fascinated when people say, "I hate kids."


I can't stand unruly, screaming, misbehaving brats.

OTOH, if your child is quiet and well-behaved...s/he is simply a little child sitting there. Not the cutest and/or smartest thing in the world. Just another person (albeit much smaller).

I just don't find babies/children all that fascinating. A baby kitten is adorable--I always want to pick it up and fondle it. But a baby human? Doesn't do anything for me. I don't hate them, just don't find them charming and lovable, either.

Sorry. :-)

Ellen

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Author: Windowseat Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24673 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/28/2004 7:29 PM
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That's why I can't stand this "it takes a village" routine about raising kids. I'll raise my own, thank you. I don't need the village's help.

I'm wandering in via the "Best of" list. I've always loved that phrase about not needing a village. It says so much about the person who says it. We now know that Johnmoni:

1) intends to homeschool his son (because "the village" pays for the school)

2) is a Christian Scientist (because "the village" pays for hospitals, and helps support medical treatments, and a variety of other programs that have led to the current status of medical care in America)

3) never watches television (because "the village" comes through loud and clear, with its various cultures and attitudes)

4) doesn't read books (because members of "the village" wrote the books)

5) never goes to museums (which were created and paid for by members of "the village")

6) does not make use of the local public library (which, again, is paid for by "the village")

7) never travels on public roads (paid for by "the village")

and, obviously, does not allow any form of outside influence to enter his home, since those influences were all created by "the village."

Nancy
part of "the village," what with taxes and donations and all.

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Author: johnmoni Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24674 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/28/2004 8:18 PM
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" So you dont want anyone else to help you raise your kids? Well, I have a bulletin for you-they're involved whether you like it or not. Your kid will spend way more waking hours in the company of other folks over the timespan 0-18 than he/she will with you, unless you're going to homeschool your kid in your basement."

Let me clarify my view. I understand that many adults will influence our child during his formative years. What I resent is this notion that my wife and I have some sort of "responsibility" for someone else's child. "It's alright" they say "for you to have a child out of wedlock, with the other parent nowhere in sight because the 'village' will raise your child." Or . . . when we go to a birthday party and a few kids are running wild, their parents are philosophising in the kitchen, and then look at me cross-eyed when their kid fell in front of me and I didn't help them up. I didn't know I was the hired babysitter.

My parents had 4 kids, and putting aside the school teachers in our lives, they took care of us. We weren't unique in that by-the-way - ALL the families in our neighborhood raised their kids that way. The village didn't raise those kids, their parents did.


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Author: johnmoni Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24675 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/28/2004 8:24 PM
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"Why are you so defensive about being a parent? Are you jealous of us?"

Jealous? Not in the least. I love being a parent. If we hit the lottery tomorrow, and $ was no object, I'd become stay-at-home Dad in a heartbeat. The petty politics, complaining, back-stabbing and whining in work makes me sick. I wouldn't miss it at all.

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Author: eudaimon6 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24676 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/28/2004 8:32 PM
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Let me clarify my view. I understand that many adults will influence our child during his formative years. What I resent is this notion that my wife and I have some sort of "responsibility" for someone else's child. "It's alright" they say "for you to have a child out of wedlock, with the other parent nowhere in sight because the 'village' will raise your child." Or . . . when we go to a birthday party and a few kids are running wild, their parents are philosophising in the kitchen, and then look at me cross-eyed when their kid fell in front of me and I didn't help them up. I didn't know I was the hired babysitter.

who said all that nonsense? certainly none of the folks here who have chosen not to have kids. I think people who have children outside wedlock and without the means to care for them are horribly irresponsible, and there's nothing ok at all about it. I think most of the posters here would agree with me. Am I wrong?

I am positive there is not a single person among the regular posters here who would approve of kids running wild at any public event. On the other hand, if a small child fell down and I was the only adult in sight, I would have the human decency to help the kid up, if only in order to return the child to his parents.

I think you should read what is posted here more carefully before posting. Oh, and by the way, did you find the phrase "I hate kids" anywhere?

I thought not.

Have a nice day.

Dean-stepparent who chose not to pass his own genes on, who believes that that decision qualifies him to post here. I could be wrong.



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Author: 1HappyFool Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24677 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/28/2004 9:16 PM
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Dean-stepparent who chose not to pass his own genes on, who believes that that decision qualifies him to post here. I could be wrong.

IMO, this site is about what it's title implies. That means even parents are "qualified" to be here as long as they more or less confine the discussion to what the title implies. It's not about raising kids (theirs or others) and it's not about "Howto Parent", though we talk a lot about examples of how not to parent. The founder of the opened it to discuss the CF lifestyle choice and the issues involved with living the CF life. That doesn't mean it can't go off topic, just that the participants mainly come here for on topic discussion, including diatribes about how happy they are with their lifestyle choice and how they think those who display poor parenting skills should have thought more about their choice.

1HF


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Author: zsimpson Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24680 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/29/2004 12:10 AM
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As for the world revolving around him? Oh PLEASE! I have three kids and the one thing that gets drilled into their heads from the moment they can understand is that the world DOES NOT revolve around them. That is the worst message you could give your kid

I also have kids and I wish I could give this a second rec. I homeschool the kids and we get a few like that. I seem to notice it more from single, male children than from the others. Kids with siblings tend to learn fast that the world does not revolve around them, and Moms (usually the primary care-givers) do not seem to be as easy on the girls. Maybe it's because we remember the evil little thoughts we had in our minds as kids?

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Author: zsimpson Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24681 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/29/2004 12:15 AM
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Because there are laws making dog owners directly responsible for what their dogs do. Until parents are held to the same standards, many just won't get it.

I know you check out the Parents board occasionally, so you'll understand when I say, there are times that I really want to slap some of the parents, never mind the kids.

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Author: zsimpson Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24682 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/29/2004 12:23 AM
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Kids spend six or seven hours every day with teachers. Kids who play sports spend another hour or two nearly every day with their coaches. Kids who make decent grades spend an hour or two every day on homework and studying. Parents who have a clue know all this limits the amount of time kids can spend with their parents, and extends the amount of influence other adults have over their children. If you ignore these facts, you do so at your own peril.

That was one of my major reasons for deciding to homeschool. I watched my SIL with her kids and she never really saw them. She didn't raise those children, everyone else did. When everyone else is raising your child, you have no control over the type of adult that child will become.
BTW, we don't all spend our time in the basement unless it's finished and furnished with computers and all the other assorted "toys".

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Author: ChiliChild Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24688 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/29/2004 7:53 AM
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"Why are you so defensive about being a parent? Are you jealous of us?"

Jealous? Not in the least. I love being a parent. If we hit the lottery tomorrow, and $ was no object, I'd become stay-at-home Dad in a heartbeat. The petty politics, complaining, back-stabbing and whining in work makes me sick. I wouldn't miss it at all.




I notice you didn't bother to answer the other questions I posed regarding why you choose to post at the Choosing Not to Have Kids board. I'm still curious about your agenda. Why are you not at the Parenting Board instead? Just curious, not judging, donchaknow.
So maybe I should go over to the Parenting board and start being a troll? No, as I said before, that would be RUDE, therefore it must be assumed that you have some goal in mind when here.

Gayle


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Author: tconi Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24689 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/29/2004 7:55 AM
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Nancy
part of "the village,"


I ♥ Windowseat.

So nice to have seen you (and other villagers) last weekend.

peace & the village
t

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Author: TweeKitten Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24691 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/29/2004 10:14 AM
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That was one of my major reasons for deciding to homeschool. I watched my SIL with her kids and she never really saw them. She didn't raise those children, everyone else did. When everyone else is raising your child, you have no control over the type of adult that child will become.

<Buffy>

"Have you considered home schooling? It's not just for scary religious people any more"

</Buffy>

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Author: ROTJob Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24692 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/29/2004 11:32 AM
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I'm just curious - do you really dislike kids as much as your post makes it seem? I'm not judging, but am always fascinated when people say, "I hate kids."



I hate kids.

Keep them out of my way.



RJ

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Author: Neuferland Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24693 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/29/2004 11:48 AM
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I hate kids.

Keep them out of my way.


Damn and here I was hoping to bring James over for a ride on Goliath! (I probably spelled that wrong, sorry ;Þ)

Deannda
Oh well! :)

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Author: ROTJob Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24694 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/29/2004 11:52 AM
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Damn and here I was hoping to bring James over for a ride on Goliath!


Sorry, that would be bad for his back.


I am coming more and more to realize that I really just plain hate kids. I do not think they are cute. I do not enjoy playing with them. I do not enjoy hearing them scream or make messes.

I respect everyone's right to have kids or not to. All I demand in return is that they respect that I have made the choice to live childfree, and thus they should do their part to keep their kids out of my way.

If they do, we will get along just fine. If they don't we will clash.

That is all.


RJ

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Author: Neuferland Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24714 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/29/2004 3:57 PM
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I respect everyone's right to have kids or not to. All I demand in return is that they respect that I have made the choice to live childfree, and thus they should do their part to keep their kids out of my way.

If they do, we will get along just fine. If they don't we will clash.

Totally understandable and respected. And I was just teasing about riding Goliath :)

Deannda
Though I did have a friend who's monkey rode her Great Dane in the 4th of July Parade every year :)

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Author: ROTJob Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24715 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/29/2004 4:11 PM
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Totally understandable and respected. And I was just teasing about riding Goliath :)


I know you were. I was just being an ass. It's cool.

For the record, when I was a kid (2-4) we had a St Bernard and I used to climb on his back and grab a handful of fur in each hand and ride him around the yard for hours. I don't really have a problem with it, because he seemed to LOVE doing it.

RJ

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Author: johnmoni Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24759 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/30/2004 12:40 PM
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"So maybe I should go over to the Parenting board and start being a troll? No, as I said before, that would be RUDE, therefore it must be assumed that you have some goal in mind when here."

I must have missed something . . . I didn't know that this was a private board. Did the Fool change its policy about posting?

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Author: johnmoni Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24760 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/30/2004 12:42 PM
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"I hate kids. Keep them out of my way."

Sorry to hear that.


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Author: johnmoni Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24761 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/30/2004 12:45 PM
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"I respect everyone's right to have kids or not to. All I demand in return is that they respect that I have made the choice to live childfree, and thus they should do their part to keep their kids out of my way."

I respect your right to not have kids. But I demand that you do your best to stay out of my way when I'm walking with my son also.

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Author: ROTJob Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24762 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/30/2004 12:57 PM
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I respect your right to not have kids. But I demand that you do your best to stay out of my way when I'm walking with my son also.



Stay out of the street and you won't have a problem from me.

If you choose to do your walking in the store, I revert back to my previous "keep him away from me" statement.

RJ

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Author: DPallas Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24763 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/30/2004 1:10 PM
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"So maybe I should go over to the Parenting board and start being a troll? No, as I said before, that would be RUDE, therefore it must be assumed that you have some goal in mind when here."

I must have missed something . . . I didn't know that this was a private board. Did the Fool change its policy about posting?


No. When was the last time you read the policy ? It says not to post messages that are solely designed to disrupt the conversation or annoy its participants. It says "Our readers don't like it, and we won't tolerate it, as it destroys the usefulness of the folder subject and changes (for the worse) the tone of the conversation."

The folder subject for this board is "Choosing not to Have Kids." There are "Parenting" boards to discuss choosing to have kids. It's not a difficult concept.

http://www.fool.com/help/index.htm?display=community04

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Author: chkNYC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24764 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/30/2004 1:21 PM
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But I demand that you do your best to stay out of my way when I'm walking with my son also.

And I (to use your word) demand that you do your best to keep your son's stroller out of my way when I'm on the subway or in a crowded store or even out on the street as opposed to expecting me and every other person on earth to "stay out of your way" because you happen to be pushing a stroller or walking with a child.

Christina

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Author: ROTJob Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24765 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/30/2004 1:24 PM
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I say "let the parents stay." I do not mind at all letting them have a dose of reality. The fact is that although their little urchins might very well be the center of their lives, they don't amount to so much as a passing concern in my life, unless they get in my way or disrupt my peace. If that happens, then I disrupt the parent's peace.

We have some really cool parents who regularly participate on this board, and I would never even dream of suggesting that they leave.

As for the other self-righteous parents who want to keep trying to convince us that their children are different and really are little beams of sunlight straight from heaven, well...they just confirm my choice not to ever have children, as it apparently causes insanity.


RJ

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Author: DPallas Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24771 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/30/2004 2:59 PM
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We have some really cool parents who regularly participate on this board, and I would never even dream of suggesting that they leave.

I never suggested they leave, I clarified TMF policy for someone who apparently doesn't get it. The posters you're talking about do get it.

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Author: ROTJob Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24772 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/30/2004 3:11 PM
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I never suggested they leave, I clarified TMF policy for someone who apparently doesn't get it. The posters you're talking about do get it.


And the others are cheap entertainment.

;)

RJ

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Author: johnmoni Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24773 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/30/2004 3:51 PM
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"And I (to use your word) demand . . ."

I wasn't the one who originally used "demand". Look back in this string . . . it was another poster - that poster made a demand, and so did I. All's fair . . .

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Author: sunnybiss77 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24774 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/30/2004 3:53 PM
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I wasn't the one who originally used "demand". Look back in this string . . . it was another poster - that poster made a demand, and so did I. All's fair . . .

Oh good lord, GO FIND A PROJECT!

-Sunny


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Author: johnmoni Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24775 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/30/2004 3:58 PM
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"Oh good lord, GO FIND A PROJECT!"

I just finished cutting and edging the grass . . . enjoying a half day off from work.

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Author: sunnybiss77 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24776 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/30/2004 4:13 PM
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I just finished cutting and edging the grass . . . enjoying a half day off from work.

Good, now go find another project.


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Author: johnmoni Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24777 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/30/2004 4:19 PM
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"Good, now go find another project."

you don't seem too busy either . . .

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Author: sunnybiss77 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24778 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/30/2004 4:20 PM
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you don't seem too busy either . . .

Nope, but I'm not trolling either.


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Author: precious1965 Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24779 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/30/2004 4:29 PM
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Lord have mercy. I'm bored on a Friday afternoon and two of my favorite boards are being trolled. And that sucks!

Would someone let me know when the gray goes away?

Much obliged.

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Author: Windowseat Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24791 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/31/2004 8:27 AM
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I respect your right to not have kids. But I demand that you do your best to stay out of my way when I'm walking with my son also.

So, how much space does his highness require? Ninety feet all around? Hundred square yards? The entire staircase heading down to the train? An entire subway car just for himself?

Look, I definitely do not attempt to mow kids down. I also try to avoid running into little old ladies, blind people, animals, and the rest of the human race.

But parents also need to be aware of people around them, and not allow their kids to be a pest to others. Some parents know this, some don't. If your son is going down the stairs one step at a time, and it's rush hour, people are going to be running for trains, and they aren't going to care if you demand that the world get out of the way of your son.

You need to learn that your son doesn't own the road.

Nancy

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Author: ROTJob Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24792 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/31/2004 8:50 AM
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But parents also need to be aware of people around them, and not allow their kids to be a pest to others. Some parents know this, some don't. If your son is going down the stairs one step at a time, and it's rush hour, people are going to be running for trains, and they aren't going to care if you demand that the world get out of the way of your son.
You need to learn that your son doesn't own the road.



I agree with this part.....but then you throw in this...


So, how much space does his highness require? Ninety feet all around? Hundred square yards? The entire staircase heading down to the train? An entire subway car just for himself?
Look, I definitely do not attempt to mow kids down. I also try to avoid running into little old ladies, blind people, animals, and the rest of the human race.


Why the attitude? Trust me, I do not go out of my way to cross the paths of children just so that I can bitch about it and insult their parents. I pretty much respect the rights of these children to be alive, and of the parents to create more. I just do not want them inside my personal space, that being my entire house and property, and a 1 foot bubble around me when I am out in public. If the kids violate this personal space, I react negatively. So if a little darling starts taking items out of my shopping cart, runs into my ankles his cart, throws something at me or runs up behind me and slaps my leg and then runs away, he has violated my personal space.

In addition, I beleive I have the right to live in a world of reasonable volume. I go out of my way to avoid settings where a high number of kids is likely to be present. I do not go to walmart. I shop at night. I do not go to malls. I do not go to parks. So when I do go to a nice restaurant or go shopping late at night, and I encounter a screaming, unruly child, I feel it is my duty to make the parents of this child as uncomfortable as they have just made me.

I really do not see this as that extreme. I suspect that a large amount of the population feels the same way I do, but is afraid to admit it, and certainly would never dream of actually confronting the parents about it, as I have done on numerous occasions.

That is all.

RJ

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Author: Windowseat Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24793 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/31/2004 8:57 AM
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Why the attitude?

Well, I was responding to johnmoni's comment about demanding that people get out of his son's way. I was trying to make a point that he can't demand people get entirely out of the way, and was being sarcastic.

What gets me most is when kids play tag in the museum.

Nancy
and I'm talking about an Art Museum, where adults go to look at pictures, not the Children's Museum or the Science Museum.

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Author: Primm69 Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24794 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/31/2004 9:02 AM
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You know . . . I felt the same way you did till our son was born. Prior to that, I was always cranky when I saw a kid act up in public: "Why can't those parents control him" I used to think.

I used to think that before my kids were born too.

And guess what? I still do! And I know my kids aren't perfect. And if they act like brats, I treat them the same.

The world does not revolve around you, but neither does it revolve around your son. And the sooner he learns that, the better. For him, for you, his parents, and for the rest of us.

Primm
*relurking now - sorry!*

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Author: johnmoni Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24795 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/31/2004 9:07 AM
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"So, how much space does his highness require?"

Hey - the childless poster "demanded" (see his post that I responded to) that I stay out of his way. I was just "demanding" the same of him. Is there a double standard here? The childless poster can make a "demand" but the person with a child can't? Sounds like discrimination to me? I may contact the EEOC. ;)

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Author: johnmoni Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24796 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/31/2004 9:12 AM
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"The world does not revolve around you, but neither does it revolve around your son. "

You're right - and I corrected/clarified my statement, which is, MY world revolves around my son. Everything I/we do is directed at making his life as warm, loving and comfortable as possible. This may sound crass, but I'm not much concerned with anyone else's kids. But then again, neither is anyone else who posts on this board, from what I've read.

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Author: chkNYC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24799 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/31/2004 10:39 AM
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I just do not want them inside my personal space, that being my entire house and property, and a 1 foot bubble around me when I am out in public

Well, I for one think that my personal space is more than a 1 foot bubble. For example, yesterday morning I was on the subway during rush hour on my way to work. The subway car was not jammed packed, in fact there were a few empty seats here and there. At one end of the car was a woman with a child (who I think was 2 or 3 years old) in a stroller. Mom was sitting down. All of a sudden the child starts to scream -- I don't mean cry, I mean scream. And scream and scream. Mom tries to settle child down. No dice. Mom decides to take child out of stroller. She has some difficulty doing so as stroller starts to fall over (and Mom never stood up). Folks around her help her. Child is still screaming but now she is also flailing her arms and kicking, etc. Mom is now holding screaming, flailing child. Stroller starts to roll away. Passengers stop it and bring it back to Mom who apparently can't handle both the child and the stroller. All this time (more than 10 minutes) child is screaming at the top of her lungs. (Again, not crying -- screaming.)

It's my opinion that this mother (and her child) were violating my "personal space" and that of all the other passengers on that subway car. In order to not be subjected to a screaming child on the entire 25 minutes of my morning commute to work, am I supposed to get off the train and get another train? Or should Mom take the screaming child off the train (and also learn how to handle both the child and the stroller!!!)?

Christina

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Author: chkNYC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24800 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/31/2004 11:22 AM
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This may sound crass, but I'm not much concerned with anyone else's kids. But then again, neither is anyone else who posts on this board, from what I've read.

Well, as most of the rest of us who post on this board have chosen not to have children, we are not raising them to be selfish and self-absorbed -- which is what your son will be if your attitude is any indication.

Christina

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Author: eudaimon6 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24801 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/31/2004 12:23 PM
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This may sound crass, but I'm not much concerned with anyone else's kids. But then again, neither is anyone else who posts on this board, from what I've read.

I am concerned with the rest of the world. I know that I and my family will interact with other people. I want other kids to be brought up to be honest, decent, respectful, taxpaying citizens, and I am trying to bring my kids up the same way. Not being concerned with others leads to selfish, self-centered, short-sighted behavior, which is exactly what most of the folks who post here object to when it is displayed by some parents and some children.


John Donne wrote this about 400 years ago, and perhaps you might want to think about it a bit.

No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friend's or of thine own were. Any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.



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Author: warrl Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24802 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/31/2004 12:50 PM
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But I demand that you do your best to stay out of my way when I'm walking with my son also.

And I (to use your word) demand that you do your best to keep your son's stroller out of my way when I'm on the subway or in a crowded store or even out on the street as opposed to expecting me and every other person on earth to "stay out of your way" because you happen to be pushing a stroller or walking with a child.


DW injured her foot and is temporarily in a cast - and often on a power chair, because we often do things that involve walking around for an hour or more.

I've noticed that people are a lot quicker to move grocery carts out of the middle of the aisle, or move their long conversations to one side of the path, for an obviously handicapped person to get by.

But, rather than thinking "how nice of them", I'm instead thinking "why didn't they automatically move to one side simply because they were stopping - before ANYONE wanted by?"

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Author: Neuferland Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24803 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/31/2004 12:59 PM
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Sorry, you can only recommend a post to the Best of once.

Do you think they will ever get this feature fixed?

Deannda
Well said RJ, well said

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Author: Neuferland Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24805 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/31/2004 1:03 PM
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I wasn't the one who originally used "demand". Look back in this string . . . it was another poster - that poster made a demand, and so did I. All's fair . . .

Oh good lord, GO FIND A PROJECT!

-Sunny


Or better yet, get off your computer and go play with said center of your world. He would appreciate you much more than the core of posters on this board.

Deannda
But then again, he might turn out to be just like you, nebbermind

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Author: Neuferland Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24806 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/31/2004 1:27 PM
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This may sound crass, but I'm not much concerned with anyone else's kids. But then again, neither is anyone else who posts on this board, from what I've read.

Then you just don't get this board, do you? Admit it, you are clueless and like any other self-centered egotistical parent who's child is the perfect one you think you need to "educate" them to the error of their ways.

I've lurked at this board for quite some time off and on over the years and I agree with 99% of what they stand for because it the same thing I stand for. A society that does not revolve around the child. A society that respects each other's choices and a society that "demands" polite interaction among all the living creatures, adult and child. If you really read this board you would see a very high percentage of their complaints are about people that do not respect their decision to be without children, do not respect their space in public and do not teach their children the basic skills needed to interact politely with regular society. They complain about the morons who let their children run wild in public, terrorizing others, disturbing others and doing absolutely NOTHING about it. There is a time and place for children to act like that, playgrounds and places set up especially directed for children are such places, NOT museums, coffee shops, grocery stores, department stores and the like.

The OP was complaining about whining children and obnoxious parents at a comic convention, small children who should have never been there. Children who were dragged there by their ignorant parents so they could get a drawing for their child. Parents who are clueless when it comes to being polite and respectful of those around them because when you have a child that is "demanding" something from an adult, any adult, even their parent, than something is wrong in this world. Children should be protected, loved and respectful of the world around them. They should be polite and quiet in public.

The Name of the board is CHOOSING NOT TO HAVE KIDS, not I hate kids, or I can't stand kids. Read it, from the beginning and educate yourself.

Deannda
Okay, I'll shut up now

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Author: johnmoni Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24807 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/31/2004 3:46 PM
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"In order to not be subjected to a screaming child on the entire 25 minutes of my morning commute to work, am I supposed to get off the train and get another train?"

That's kind of how I feel when I'm on the train to Washington DC, and some "businessman" is speaking into his cellphone so loud that I can hear his entire conversation. He's violating my personal space as much as the woman in the stroller violated yours.

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Author: johnmoni Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24808 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/31/2004 3:50 PM
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"No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friend's or of thine own were. Any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee."

I'm still mainly concerned with my son and him alone. I/we made the choice to have him and raise him and we take that responsibility seriously. We don't feel that such a responsibility is anyone else's but our own: not grandpa, not grandma, not the neighbor, not the day care provider, etc. While they all may have some positive influence, as a great man once said, the buck stops with us.

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Author: johnmoni Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24809 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/31/2004 3:53 PM
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"Or better yet, get off your computer and go play with said center of your world. He would appreciate you much more than the core of posters on this board."

We just spent the morning at a wonderful children's birthday party - lots of fun. Asking me to get off the computer - do I sense an attempt at censorship? Is that the Motley Fool way?

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Author: johnmoni Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24810 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/31/2004 3:55 PM
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"A society that does not revolve around the child."

Agree - like I said MY world revolves around my child. I don't expect your world to revolve around my child at all.

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Author: johnmoni Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24811 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/31/2004 3:57 PM
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"They should be polite and quiet in public."

Be seen and not heard?

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Author: chkNYC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24812 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/31/2004 4:28 PM
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He's violating my personal space as much as the woman in the stroller violated yours

Yes, but three things:

1. I doubt that he is screaming at the top of his lungs.
2. He is there without a parent in attendance -- the child on the subway is not the one I blame for the intrusion-- it's the parent.
3. So what?

Christina

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Author: chkNYC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24813 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/31/2004 4:37 PM
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Be seen and not heard?

Well, to be perfectly honest, I really don't care if your child is "seen" or not. As far as "heard", I would prefer that I don't have to listen to anyone's screaming child.

I've had about all I can stand of your trolling. If you want to keep posting here (and goodness knows, I don't know why), that's your choice but as for my reading any more of your drivel:

johnmoni added to your Ignored Fools list.

Christina

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Author: ROTJob Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24814 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/31/2004 5:11 PM
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Be seen and not heard?


You're starting to catch on.

RJ

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Author: Neuferland Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24815 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/31/2004 5:39 PM
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Be seen and not heard?

BINGO! Another one!

Deannda
In favor of removing the loud, obnoxious child and PARENT

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Author: mctubbs Three stars, 500 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24817 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/31/2004 7:56 PM
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Yes, seen and not heard, frankly.

MCT

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Author: Windowseat Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24818 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/31/2004 8:07 PM
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Well, to be perfectly honest, I really don't care if your child is "seen" or not. As far as "heard", I would prefer that I don't have to listen to anyone's screaming child.

I've had about all I can stand of your trolling. If you want to keep posting here (and goodness knows, I don't know why), that's your choice but as for my reading any more of your drivel:


What I don't understand is why he keeps posting.

He's already acknowledged that he doesn't like kids in general. It's only his own offspring that he adores.

And the posters here have made it clear that they have no intention of bowing down and worshipping his child. So what is his point?

And why do people bring babies in strollers to museums? The kids get tired and start crying. What else did they expect, and why do I have to listen to childish wails in the Early American section?

Nancy
6 couples with strollers in the MFA today. I kid you not. And the parents all looked confused when their child cried.

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Author: johnmoni Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24819 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/31/2004 9:01 PM
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"3. So what?"

exactly

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Author: johnmoni Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24820 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/31/2004 9:02 PM
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"johnmoni added to your Ignored Fools list"

Aw shucks folks - I'm speechless!

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Author: johnmoni Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24821 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/31/2004 9:04 PM
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"You're starting to catch on."

That's a very old-world view - certainly doesn't fit into today's "kindler and gentler" world. But you certainly are entitled to your opinion.

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Author: johnmoni Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24822 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/31/2004 9:07 PM
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"In favor of removing the loud, obnoxious child and PARENT "

As I am in favor of removing the loud cellphone user on the train - I didn't really care to hear about his business deal that day, but like the woman on the subway with you, I was forced too. At least the child is a baby and doesn't know better. I wish I could say the same for the businessman on the train. (Oops - sorry - I forgot - he's important.)

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Author: johnmoni Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24823 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/31/2004 9:08 PM
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"And why do people bring babies in strollers to museums?"

It's called cultural enrichment.

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Author: Windowseat Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24824 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/31/2004 9:21 PM
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"And why do people bring babies in strollers to museums?"

It's called cultural enrichment.


If you think that a six month old child can focus on a painting, then you know even less of children than I thought you did.

I am definitely in favor of bringing children to museums. But, for the child's sake, it should be done slowly and carefully. Once the child is capable of grasping concepts, then show her or him pictures, start talking about artists, explain what sort of pictures will be there. Make sure the child knows that a museum is a "quiet place" as opposed to a noisy place. Keep the sessions short, and don't demand too much of a child.

But to stick a baby in a stroller and expect it to remain quiet and happy for four hours?

And then announce that this is cultural enrichment?

Some parents are really, really weird.

Nancy
and if you are attempting to be humorous, it's too late.

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Author: johnmoni Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24825 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/31/2004 9:31 PM
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"And then announce that this is cultural enrichment?"

I play the guitar and piano, and have been playing songs to my 3 year old son long before he had any clue about music. Now - at 3 years and a few months, he has a definite appreciation for music, shows much interest in attempting to play both the piano and guitar, and loves to hear songs on the stereo. So my experience is that his exposure to music - even at an age where he couldn't comprehend it - has been an extremely positive affect on him. I have to imagine that exposure to art in a similar context has to do the same thing.

(His favorite song by the way is "All You Need is Love.")

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Author: ROTJob Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24826 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/31/2004 11:37 PM
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Aw shucks folks - I'm speechless!


I wish.


RJ

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Author: ROTJob Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24827 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 7/31/2004 11:39 PM
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That's a very old-world view - certainly doesn't fit into today's "kindler and gentler" world. But you certainly are entitled to your opinion.


Thank you for the compliment.


RJ

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Author: 3muttsmom Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24835 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 8/1/2004 5:15 PM
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Now - at 3 years and a few months, he has a definite appreciation for music, shows much interest in attempting to play both the piano and guitar, and loves to hear songs on the stereo.

Big deal. Every child that can raise his/her arms LOVES to pound away on a piano. And, my nieces would get up and jump around like monkeys any time Barney or any other music was on the radio or TV - at the age of 2.

This isn't any indication that they're the next Yo Yo Ma. ALL kids do this.

3MM

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Author: johnmoni Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24836 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 8/1/2004 5:20 PM
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"This isn't any indication that they're the next Yo Yo Ma. ALL kids do this"

Does that imply that exposure to music at a young age is not a good thing, in your opinion? I guess its all perspective: I see the guy next door with his 2.5 year old in the yard with a golf club - I could care less about golf, so I'd never put a club in my sons hands. But since I play 2 instruments, we'll always first give him the chance (his choice) to play whatever instrument he wants. In our case we have the piano already; his hands are a bit small for a guitar yet - in a few years maybe.

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Author: squirmyworm Three stars, 500 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24839 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 8/1/2004 6:41 PM
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I play the guitar and piano, and have been playing songs to my 3 year old son long before he had any clue about music. Now - at 3 years and a few months, he has a definite appreciation for music, shows much interest in attempting to play both the piano and guitar, and loves to hear songs on the stereo. So my experience is that his exposure to music - even at an age where he couldn't comprehend it - has been an extremely positive affect on him. I have to imagine that exposure to art in a similar context has to do the same thing.

You're teaching your son about music, but it sounds like you're doing it at home, which is the proper place for a child that young. No one's saying parents can't teach their kids about art, just to do it at home (until they're well behaved enough to be in public).

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Author: ChocoKitty Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24840 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 8/1/2004 7:01 PM
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In other words, a fussing, talking, or screaming kid is not a good idea at an orchestral concert.

CK

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Author: RocketsMomma Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24872 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 8/2/2004 5:53 PM
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So my experience is that his exposure to music - even at an age where he couldn't comprehend it - has been an extremely positive affect on him.

There is some truth to this. Hearing is one of the first senses to start working in the womb.

My father started playing classical music for me and my 3 siblings before we were born. Both my brother and I are classical fans as well as fans of other forms of music. We both have large music collections. My older sister likes music too but her cd collection runs to the eclectic rather than the classical. My younger sister however, never really caught the music bug of any type and only owns cds (or lps) that were given to her (perhaps 3 in total?).

Now in my short time in thinking on this subject, bordering on 10 minutes now, I would think audio stimulation which can then be joined in by a child verbally (humming, singing, chattering, banging on a piano, etc.) would do more for the learning experience (since 2 senses are engaged (3 with the piano banging) at that young an age than would flat, static paintings hanging on walls at which the child can only look.

Since young children are known to really like primary colors (and have short attention spans (which music would also tend to bypass since he can't shut off his ears) that would leave many styles of painting to be rather boring to a 3 year old should he look at one longer than 3 minutes. I can't imagine that a child that young would enjoy something he can't also touch, vocalize with, smell or eat.

Eating a Gaugin would be right out and fondling statues is a definite no-no.

That said, my father also did other things differently back then than some parents seem to do today. He neither took us to museums or to the symphony before we had several years of elementary school art and music classes. In fact my first symphony was with a bunch of other kids when the Detroit Symphony was in town playing specifically to children's audiences.

If my father himself was desirous of his own cultural enrichment, he hired a babysitter and took my mom.

RM

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Author: WyneFool Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24892 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 8/2/2004 9:23 PM
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Would someone let me know when the gray goes away?


Gonna wash that troll right outta my hair.....

WF *eliciting a smile*

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Author: precious1965 Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24893 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 8/2/2004 9:30 PM
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What hair?

oooops, wrong board....

: p

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Author: llamalluv Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 24918 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 8/3/2004 7:04 PM
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I wanna know what kind of idiot stands in a line for hours and doesn't know what happens when they're next?

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Author: Dragonshark Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 29525 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 4/17/2005 2:48 PM
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"why do you hate children so much?" is another phrase for the Breeder Bingo card



what are the other phrases?

I go to my parent's 35th Anniversary "celebration" next month, and would love to yell "BINGO" after my Mom asks about my love life/future plans for the 80th time

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Author: Dragonshark Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 29526 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 4/17/2005 2:52 PM
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That's why I can't stand this "it takes a village" routine about raising kids


every time I've heard that phrase, I think of the TV show the Prisoner

where the Village is some nefarious behind the scenes malevolent organization interested in its own brand of corruption

hmmmm

not much difference, maybe replace malevolence with apathetic stupidity




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Author: ogrecat Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 29529 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 4/17/2005 3:12 PM
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what are the other phrases?

I go to my parent's 35th Anniversary "celebration" next month, and would love to yell "BINGO" after my Mom asks about my love life/future plans for the 80th time


http://www.luckytrout.com/childfree/cfbingo.php?card=asnwlhbxerpovtjudmikcfqg

http://www.virulently.net/rants/One/brat4.html

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Author: ogrecat Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 29530 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 4/17/2005 3:13 PM
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http://www.cfpersonals.com/bingo/index.php

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Author: Dragonshark Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 29531 of 35757
Subject: Re: I don't care that it's "Kids Day" Date: 4/17/2005 3:28 PM
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"my child will cure cancer"



omg
I hope nobody has to ever hear that bit of insanity from someone

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