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Author: katinga Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Ticker Guide Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 135721  
Subject: I used to feel guilty Date: 12/2/2012 8:40 AM
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A Powerline commenter inspires.

Dear young voter,

As a soon to retire Boomer, I used to feel guilt for the enormous debt we were passing down to y'all.

But you elected Obama. No more guilt. Thank you and good luck. Suckas.

Love,
Kat
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Author: Brooklyn1948 Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 111992 of 135721
Subject: Re: I used to feel guilty Date: 12/2/2012 11:01 AM
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Dear young voter,

As a soon to retire Boomer, I used to feel guilt for the enormous debt we were passing down to y'all.

But you elected Obama. No more guilt. Thank you and good luck. Suckas.


AMEN!

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Author: lowstudent Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 111993 of 135721
Subject: Re: I used to feel guilty Date: 12/2/2012 11:04 AM
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As a soon to retire Boomer, I used to feel guilt for the enormous debt we were passing down to y'all.

But you elected Obama. No more guilt. Thank you and good luck. Suckas.


_________________________

I do feel sorry for a good number of them

However, for the most part I have to agree. As the future unfolds, I hope they get to watch some older movies, and perhaps figure out the simple (not 100 percent but close enough) truth

You can't con an honest man.

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Author: jerryab Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 112000 of 135721
Subject: Re: I used to feel guilty Date: 12/2/2012 3:02 PM
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As a soon to retire Boomer, I used to feel guilt for the enormous debt we were passing down to y'all.

You are one of the 47% referred to by Romney in his speech.

Guess who will get robbed to pay the debt YOU ran up? YOU !! As the store sign says: "You broke it, you bought it."

We take CASH.

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Author: isawbones Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 112003 of 135721
Subject: Re: I used to feel guilty Date: 12/2/2012 3:41 PM
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Remember the old line " Be kind to your children, they will pick the nursing home you will die in".

Will Obamacare morph into a Jack Kavorkian machine to pay us Boomers back?

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Author: rbednarski Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 112004 of 135721
Subject: Re: I used to feel guilty Date: 12/2/2012 3:47 PM
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The problem with this is that the young ones who elected Obama are NOT the ones that are going to be paying the bill. THEY will be keeping their noses securely in the free-stuff trough. It is the young ones like my daughters, who have worked hard, done the right thing, and voted against Obama, who are going to end up having to pay the bills.

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Author: hrse Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 112008 of 135721
Subject: Re: I used to feel guilty Date: 12/2/2012 6:48 PM
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I used to feel guilt for the enormous debt we were passing down to y'all.

Wasn't it the GOP that lowered taxes and turned a surplus into a deficit?

Wasn't the GOP that passed Medicare Part D, without ANY funding?

Way to keep perspective.

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Author: warrl Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 112010 of 135721
Subject: Re: I used to feel guilty Date: 12/2/2012 7:02 PM
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Wasn't it the GOP that lowered taxes and turned a surplus into a deficit?

Nope.

However, the GOP does take a bit under half the blame for *raising spending* and turning a surplus into a deficit.

On the other hand, Obama's solution to that deficit is to raise spending even more.

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Author: xLife Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 112011 of 135721
Subject: Re: I used to feel guilty Date: 12/2/2012 7:16 PM
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Wasn't it the GOP that lowered taxes and turned a surplus into a deficit?

Wasn't the GOP that passed Medicare Part D, without ANY funding?


Don't forget two, unfunded wars.

http://www.laobserved.com/biz/2012/08/the_one_chart_that_e.p...

Tax Cuts, Wars Account For Nearly Half of Public Debt by 2019

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Author: ascenzm Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 112012 of 135721
Subject: Re: I used to feel guilty Date: 12/2/2012 8:22 PM
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Will Obamacare morph into a Jack Kavorkian machine to pay us Boomers back?

isawbones


Think Soylent Green.

Mike

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Author: ascenzm Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 112013 of 135721
Subject: Re: I used to feel guilty Date: 12/2/2012 8:24 PM
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On the other hand, Obama's solution to that deficit is to raise spending even more.

warrl


But that's okay because Obama is a Democrat and he cares. <g>

Mike

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Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 112014 of 135721
Subject: Re: I used to feel guilty Date: 12/2/2012 8:27 PM
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But that's okay because Obama is a Democrat and he cares.

He's very compassionate with other people's money.

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Author: iamski Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 112015 of 135721
Subject: Re: I used to feel guilty Date: 12/2/2012 10:09 PM
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When did we hae a surplus? To my knowledge the best we had was a balanced budget due to Capital Gains taxes generated by the Tech Bubble.

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Author: xLife Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 112016 of 135721
Subject: Re: I used to feel guilty Date: 12/2/2012 10:33 PM
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When did we hae a surplus?

In April, apparently.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-05-10/u-s-posted-budget-s...

The U.S. government posted a budget surplus in April, the first in more than three years, as tax revenue climbed and spending dropped.

Receipts topped outlays by $59.1 billion compared with a deficit of $40.4 billion in April 2011, the Treasury Department said today. Economists projected a $35 billion surplus, according to the median estimate in a Bloomberg News survey. It was the first surplus since September 2008 and the biggest since April 2008.


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Author: AOLFoolman100 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 112018 of 135721
Subject: Re: I used to feel guilty Date: 12/2/2012 11:50 PM
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Dear young voter,

As a soon to retire Boomer, I used to feel guilt for the enormous debt we were passing down to y'all.

But you elected Obama. No more guilt. Thank you and good luck. Suckas.



"Dear young voter"......

Singular?!?!? Was there only ONE young voter?? There are millions, many of whom are conservative and liberatarian who want smaller gov't. I'm one of them.

We're "suckas"?!?

Nice propaganda to slam young people......But slamming the entire young population is a low blow.

I would attribute this bad post to the fact that ALL older people are completely consumed by dementia, no doubt. Hey, goes both ways....

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Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 112019 of 135721
Subject: Re: I used to feel guilty Date: 12/3/2012 12:06 AM
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It's a well-known fact that most young people voted for 0bama and were uninformed. Most is not all. This is reasonably inferred by most readers of the post that set you off.

A wee bit defensive are we?

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Author: lowstudent Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 112021 of 135721
Subject: Re: I used to feel guilty Date: 12/3/2012 6:01 AM
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Wasn't it the GOP that lowered taxes and turned a surplus into a deficit?

Wasn't the GOP that passed Medicare Part D, without ANY funding?

Way to keep perspective.
______________________________________________

Stop the utter garbage

That tax cuts had nothing to do with it, if you are too stupid to understand how we got into a deficit and that the evil Bush is not a sole factor or even close to one, you are simply mindless

Medicare Part D was terrible. But after Obamacare you get a major YGBSM in worrying about funding. The underfunding is pretty much the same as being unfunded.

The other thing is ObamaCare? That was done in the face of kNOWING THERE WAS A DAMN FISCAL CRISIS AND SIMPLY NOT GIVING A DAMN!!!!!!!
So please stop the delusional Democratic rant.

Perspective? You are kidding right? Perspective?

Few here I know of argue that Bush did not do lots of harm. But comparing him to Obama doing what Obama is doing WHEN Obama is doing it?

There is no comparison. Bush was bad, unless you 'perspective' includes Obama and things like the current situation etc.

Perspective? --OK, now this one's rhetorical, -- are you an idiot?

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Author: lowstudent Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 112022 of 135721
Subject: Re: I used to feel guilty Date: 12/3/2012 6:04 AM
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But that's okay because Obama is a Democrat and he cares. <g>

Mike
__________________________

More importantly, Obama is raising taxes and claiming he hates the rich!!

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Author: Gingko100 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 112023 of 135721
Subject: Re: I used to feel guilty Date: 12/3/2012 6:58 AM
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You boomers pretty much looted the country, leaving it in tatters for the rest of us. A generation that pretty much had no fiscal discipline whatsoever, and is now retroactively looking in the mirror the proverbial day after trying to find someone to blame.

My generation isn't using SS or Medicare - we are paying for you guys. And non-budgeted wars paid for by - what - the war fairy? - have to actually be funded, a basic principle of budgeting that no one in government seemed willing to acknowledge the past 12 years through Bush and Obama. How was that supposed to work again? Wishing on a star? Mortgage deductions for all, even the well-off like me - wheeeeee!!!!!

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Author: ascenzm Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 112024 of 135721
Subject: Re: I used to feel guilty Date: 12/3/2012 7:46 AM
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When did we hae a surplus? To my knowledge the best we had was a balanced budget due to Capital Gains taxes generated by the Tech Bubble.


iamski


Using facts, that's not fair! <g> The "surplus" was due solely to Bill Clinton's amazing fiscal abilities.

Mike

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Author: hrse Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 112025 of 135721
Subject: Re: I used to feel guilty Date: 12/3/2012 8:05 AM
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are you an idiot?

For thinking that I could have a discussion on this board without personal attacks.


Yes. Yes I am.

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Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 112026 of 135721
Subject: Re: I used to feel guilty Date: 12/3/2012 8:22 AM
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The "surplus" was due solely to Bill Clinton's amazing fiscal abilities.


http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/07/11/how-balanced-budge...


President Obama and the Democrats argue that any debt limit deal to reduce federal deficits and debt needs to be balanced between spending reductions and tax increases. But as I show in my new book, "America’s Ticking Bankruptcy Bomb," that is not how we did it the last time we balanced the budget, in the 1990s.

The Republican congressional majorities elected in 1994 were greeted in February, 1995 with then President Clinton’s new budget projecting continued federal deficits of $200 billion or more indefinitely into the future. The ensuing government shutdown battles ended with budget policies that cut both taxes and spending.

Republican congressional majorities, led by then House Speaker Newt Gingrich, enacted the largest capital gains tax cut in U.S. history, slashing the rate by 40% from 28% to 20%. Along with some other tax cuts on capital, that helped to promote an economic boom that produced surging revenues.

The Republican Congress then cut federal discretionary spending from 1995 to 1996 by 5.4% in real dollars, after adjusting for inflation. As a percent of GDP, federal discretionary spending, including defense and non-defense, was slashed by 17.5% in just 4 years, from 1995 to 1999.

The Congress also adopted some entitlement reform. The AFDC welfare program was terminated as an entitlement, and sent back to the states with work requirements and federal financing in fixed, finite block grants. Agricultural subsidies were phased out under the Freedom to Farm reforms (later reversed under House Speaker Dennis Hastert). President Clinton deserves credit for going along with these Congressional Republican reforms.

As a result, $200 billion annual federal deficits, which had prevailed for over 15 years, were transformed into surpluses by 1998, peaking at $236 billion by 2000. The national debt was reduced by $560 billion in surpluses from 1998 to 2001.




Facts are stubborn things.

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Author: ascenzm Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 112027 of 135721
Subject: Re: I used to feel guilty Date: 12/3/2012 8:35 AM
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President Clinton deserves credit for going along with these Congressional Republican reforms.



And that is the main different between President Clinton and the current regime.

Mike

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Author: CVSUSN Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 112028 of 135721
Subject: Re: I used to feel guilty Date: 12/3/2012 9:03 AM
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hrse,

Wasn't it the GOP that lowered taxes and turned a surplus into a deficit?

Wasn't the GOP that passed Medicare Part D, without ANY funding?

Way to keep perspective.


hrse, I direct your attention to the name of this board. "Conservative" is prominent, completely avoiding GOP. The GOP in its current iteration is a poor conservative substitute for the liberals/progressives/socialists/communists/fascists that currently call the shots for the Dem party, but it's a damn sight better.

The Treasury Secretary, supposedly a non-partisan cabinet position, now carries the water for the White House in budget negotiations and offer $1.6 trillion in additional taxes with no cuts in spending . . . and you bring up Medicare Part D? 1/6 of the US economy is now under ObamaCare/ObamaTax and you show concern over tax cuts during Bush's tenure?

I suggest you spend time looking ahead to the road to ruin President Obama, Nancy Pelosi, and Harry Reid are intent on bringing this country.

So, you want a little perspective? Here's perspective:

http://blog.heritage.org/2009/03/24/bush-deficit-vs-obama-de...

The conservatives on this board were no fans of "compassionate conservatism". It was gov't spending to no apparent gain, an anathema to conservatives. Gov't is NOT the solution.

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Author: iamski Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 112029 of 135721
Subject: Re: I used to feel guilty Date: 12/3/2012 9:26 AM
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Wasn't it the GOP that lowered taxes and turned a surplus into a deficit?

No.

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Author: iamski Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 112030 of 135721
Subject: Re: I used to feel guilty Date: 12/3/2012 9:33 AM
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If the Obama tax cuts (remember he extended them) were so evil and caused the destruction of the federal budget, why does Obama want to make them permanent for 98% of Americans? Was it only the 2% that destroyed the budget or was it really something a bit more complicated?

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Author: lowstudent Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 112032 of 135721
Subject: Re: I used to feel guilty Date: 12/3/2012 10:05 AM
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If the Obama tax cuts (remember he extended them) were so evil and caused the destruction of the federal budget, why does Obama want to make them permanent for 98% of Americans? Was it only the 2% that destroyed the budget or was it really something a bit more complicated?
__________________________

In Obama defense on this one point, I think if someone really desired an actual cogent argument might be possible that Obama only wants to destroy 98% of America

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Author: TerryMcK Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 112057 of 135721
Subject: Re: I used to feel guilty Date: 12/3/2012 8:26 PM
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If the Obama tax cuts (remember he extended them) were so evil and caused the destruction of the federal budget, why does Obama want to make them permanent for 98% of Americans? Was it only the 2% that destroyed the budget or was it really something a bit more complicated?

That sounds like Obamatalk. He likes to use the entire population of the US to make his campaign points.

How does 98% of the US population get a permanaent tax cut. Only a subset of the population works and/or has a tax obligation (about 140 million). Then only a subset of that number pays taxes (about 75 million).

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Author: hrse Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 112063 of 135721
Subject: Re: I used to feel guilty Date: 12/3/2012 11:04 PM
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I suggest you spend time looking ahead to the road to ruin President Obama, Nancy Pelosi, and Harry Reid are intent on bringing this country.

As long as you see your opposition as an enemy we will never accomplish anything.

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Author: warrl Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 112064 of 135721
Subject: Re: I used to feel guilty Date: 12/3/2012 11:43 PM
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I suggest you spend time looking ahead to the road to ruin President Obama, Nancy Pelosi, and Harry Reid are intent on bringing this country.

As long as you see your opposition as an enemy we will never accomplish anything.


with what those three want to accomplish, never accomplishing anything would be an excellent start.

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Author: iamski Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 112071 of 135721
Subject: Re: I used to feel guilty Date: 12/4/2012 9:03 AM
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That sounds like Obamatalk.

Exactly

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Author: CVSUSN Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 112074 of 135721
Subject: Re: I used to feel guilty Date: 12/4/2012 9:32 AM
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hrse,

As long as you see your opposition as an enemy we will never accomplish anything.

hrse, you're going down a path that will rapidly bring a halt to our current conversation and any in the future. Your sentence at best is intellectual laziness, however you have one last chance to explain yourself.

Have at it.

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Author: zoningfool Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 112103 of 135721
Subject: Re: I used to feel guilty Date: 12/4/2012 4:56 PM
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Dear young voter,

As a soon to retire Boomer, I used to feel guilt for the enormous debt we were passing down to y'all.

But you elected Obama. No more guilt. Thank you and good luck. Suckas.


Well said!

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Author: hrse Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 112114 of 135721
Subject: Re: I used to feel guilty Date: 12/4/2012 11:53 PM
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Your sentence at best is intellectual laziness, however you have one last chance to explain yourself.

I pulled up the whole thread to see if there was something I missed.

This is a conservative board. President Obama, Nancy Pelosi, and Harry Reid are not conservatives. They are the opposition to conservatives.

Your statement was:
I suggest you spend time looking ahead to the road to ruin President Obama, Nancy Pelosi, and Harry Reid are intent on bringing this country.

You believe that these three, your opposition are intent on bringing ruin to this country. That would make them enemies. Worthy of physical restraint and or force.

If you see your opposition as the enemy how could you ever come to comprise with them? Nothing will be accomplished.

Did I not understand your statement or intent? When you say they intend to bring ruin to this country, how do you hold that observation without seeing them as the enemy?

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Author: ggleblanc2 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 112115 of 135721
Subject: Re: I used to feel guilty Date: 12/5/2012 4:15 AM
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You believe that these three, your opposition are intent on bringing ruin to this country. That would make them enemies. Worthy of physical restraint and or force.

No, that means that we oppose their socialist ideas.

See, that's the difference between the right and the left in the United States. The right opposes ideas. The left makes enemies.

If you have access to LexusNexis, go and count how many times Barack Obama called Fox News terrorists in the last 4 years. Then count how many times Barack Obama called actual terrorists terrorists.

Ft. Hood was "workplace violence". A recent bombing near Phoenix goes totally unreported, except by the local newspaper.

Yep. I hate their ideas.


Remember,
Faith in God
Hope in the future based on knowing the truth
Charity to our fellow men and women
Duty to ourselves, our community, and our country.

Gilbert

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 112117 of 135721
Subject: Re: I used to feel guilty Date: 12/5/2012 6:27 AM
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hrse wrote: When you say they intend to bring ruin to this country, how do you hold that observation without seeing them as the enemy?

Have you ever disciplined a child? If you have, you know how you can bring unwanted circumstances (time out, no dessert, no allowance, etc.) to him or her without seeing them as the enemy.

Libruls! They have faulty thinking and uncritical thinking skills.

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Author: tgrmn Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 112120 of 135721
Subject: Re: I used to feel guilty Date: 12/5/2012 8:03 AM
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You can't Understand it for them.

Move on.

Unless normal people organise adequately, you will all lose from now on.

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Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 112121 of 135721
Subject: Re: I used to feel guilty Date: 12/5/2012 8:07 AM
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PA Grey Matter: You believe that these three, your opposition are intent on bringing ruin to this country. That would make them enemies. Worthy of physical restraint and or force.


Hell yes liberals are the enemy, the enemy of freedom, they are trampling on our liberties with oppressive force through resdistributive and excessive taxation, the very thing our founding fathers said "hell no" to and if they continue using the force of government to diminish our freedom, damn straight they will become worthy of physical restraint and force. Freedom or death!

The second amendment isn't for target practice and hunting like your lord and savior believes, it's for self defense from criminals and to overthrow an abusive government if it comes to that - this kind of govenment is no different from a common thief using force to take what doesn't belong to them to use for purposes not elaborated in the law of the land, the Constitution.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it's natural manure." Thomas Jefferson

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Author: lowstudent Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 112122 of 135721
Subject: Re: I used to feel guilty Date: 12/5/2012 8:16 AM
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PA Grey Matter: You believe that these three, your opposition are intent on bringing ruin to this country. That would make them enemies. Worthy of physical restraint and or force.
_________________________________

Just for the record, there was undoubtedly a politician and a political philosophy that help 'transform' Greece to a more caring and more equitable nation where the rich did their fair share too.

Id does not surprise me at all that you want to resort to physical force and physical restraint, isn't that what libs do --- sure that was a stupid statement, but that is a lib specialty so I just gave you what you seem to enjoy as a mob. What a group of putzes

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Author: CVSUSN Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 112124 of 135721
Subject: Re: I used to feel guilty Date: 12/5/2012 8:29 AM
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hrse,

You believe that these three, your opposition are intent on bringing ruin to this country. That would make them enemies. Worthy of physical restraint and or force.

If you see your opposition as the enemy how could you ever come to comprise with them? Nothing will be accomplished.

Did I not understand your statement or intent? When you say they intend to bring ruin to this country, how do you hold that observation without seeing them as the enemy?


YGBSM! To oppose one's ideas justifies "physical restraint and or force?"

I fundamentally oppose their ideas. It could be (although highly unlikely) that we'd be friends outside the political arena. I fundamentally oppose the political views of a colleague who happens to be a Marine colonel (see, not all military are conservative), but I'm proud to call him friend and shipmate and would welcome him on my bridge or join him in the air or in a foxhole at the drop of a hat.

hrse, I have a set of principles found in a variety of founding documents and go back further to philosopher, John Locke, who could justifiably be called the founding grandfather. They entail natural rights among them being life, liberty, the pursuit of property, and the pursuit of happiness. On each of these natural rights mentioned one looks to what Obama/Pelosi/Reid support, i.e. abortion, ObamaCare/ObamaTax, and gov't spending profligacy and one discovers they are bent on trammeling these natural rights. I would hope that my duly elected representatives would adhere to these natural rights for the benefit of ALL, yet those I oppose are duly elected by the people they represent. One does not negotiate principles, but one does not physically restrain and or use force for opposing those principles.

hrse, your response is highly disturbing, but reflects well your thoughts about those who oppose your Leftist way of thinking. I suspect your thoughts fully represent those of the Left in general and brings to mind the Nazi Sturm Abteilung (SA) commonly referred to as the Brown Shirts of 1930s Germany.

You are not helping with my nightly rest.

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Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 112126 of 135721
Subject: Re: I used to feel guilty Date: 12/5/2012 9:05 AM
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Note that when liberals disagree with opposing points of view that they tend to get criminal and violent and destroy property, ala OWS. And note that a good number of those on the left were talking about riots if 0bama was not re-elected.

Contrast that with the Tea Party and the peace and calm of those on the right during their peaceful protests in 2010, not trashing property or pooping on police cars or raping women or going to the bathroom on the streets, but cleaning up after themselves and acting with class and no one on the right threatened any riots if Romney lost the election.

It is ironic that a lib, who believes in the coercive power of government which forces others to capitulate to their notions of nirvana on earth and punishing success by taking forcefully the money necessary to reach their ends would ask such a question about enemies being worthy of force. They are the epitome of using force through the strong arm of their lord and savior, the gubmint.

Another reason why liberalism is a mental disorder.

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Author: ascenzm Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 112131 of 135721
Subject: Re: I used to feel guilty Date: 12/5/2012 10:22 AM
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The second amendment isn't for target practice and hunting like your lord and savior believes, it's for self defense from criminals and to overthrow an abusive government if it comes to that.

Josh


Well put. In simpler terms, our second Amendment is a reset button.

Mike

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Author: lowstudent Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 112138 of 135721
Subject: Re: I used to feel guilty Date: 12/5/2012 12:33 PM
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The second amendment isn't for target practice and hunting like your lord and savior believes, it's for self defense from criminals and to overthrow an abusive government if it comes to that.

Josh


Well put. In simpler terms, our second Amendment is a reset button.

Mike
___________________________


Well, ahhhh ergghhhh, I ask who needs ahhhhhh ehhhhh reset button, when I, ahhhhh as a constitutional scholaaahh, errghhh have an unod button?

Sincerely

Barrack

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Author: hrse Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 112186 of 135721
Subject: Re: I used to feel guilty Date: 12/5/2012 11:51 PM
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OK, I guess I took intent on bringing ruin to this country as a significantly different statement than I fundamentally oppose their ideas..


If you oppose their ideas, you might still think that they have the countries best intentions, you just differ on tactics.

If you think they are intent on ruining the country, their intention is to ruin the country. Which is different.

It would be like the difference between Orthodox Jews in Israel see Conservative Jews as opponents. But Orthodox Jews see radical Muslims as intent on ruining Israel.

That seems to be the difference.

Do you think Dem leadership is intent on ruining the country. Do you think Dem leadership wants the country in ruin? Or do you think their methods will lead the country into ruin, although that is not their intention.

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Author: hrse Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 112187 of 135721
Subject: Re: I used to feel guilty Date: 12/5/2012 11:54 PM
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Have you ever disciplined a child? If you have, you know how you can bring unwanted circumstances (time out, no dessert, no allowance, etc.) to him or her without seeing them as the enemy.

Yes, but I don't think my child is intent on ruining our family, destroying the very fabric of out lives, or anything else beyond getting what they want in the next 2 min.

It seems I took CVSUSN too literal when he said he thought that Dem leadership intent was to ruin the country.

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Author: TheDope1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 112188 of 135721
Subject: Re: I used to feel guilty Date: 12/6/2012 1:35 AM
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Do you think Dem leadership is intent on ruining the country. Do you think Dem leadership wants the country in ruin? Or do you think their methods will lead the country into ruin, although that is not their intention.

I think the democrats want to crush the Republicans. To that end they're willing to absorb a lot of damage to the economy in their zeal to beat down the GOP.

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Author: ggleblanc2 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 112189 of 135721
Subject: Re: I used to feel guilty Date: 12/6/2012 4:09 AM
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Do you think Dem leadership is intent on ruining the country.

Yes.

Do you think Dem leadership wants the country in ruin?

Yes

Or do you think their methods will lead the country into ruin, although that is not their intention.

No. It is their intention to make as many people dependent on the government as possible. If they were merely misguided, there would not be such a sustained effort by the Dem leadership and the media to demonize anyone that disagrees with their methods or ideas.

The party that claims there's a war on women does everything it can to demonize the character of Republican women.

The party that claims to speak for blacks does everything it can to demonize the character of conservative black men and especially conservative black women.


Remember,
Faith in God
Hope in the future based on knowing the truth
Charity to our fellow men and women
Duty to ourselves, our community, and our country.

Gilbert

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Author: Colovion Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 112194 of 135721
Subject: Re: I used to feel guilty Date: 12/6/2012 8:17 AM
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Do you think Dem leadership is intent on ruining the country.

I would put it this way:

Their ideal state of the state is something I would consider to be a total abdication of the ideals upon which this country was founded. Namely our inherent rights to life, liberty and property. It is that last one that is viciously under attack, but like a three-legged stool none can stand without the others.

This fiscal cliff situation is a perfect example. The Dems goal is to protect entitlements at all costs, raising taxes as high as necessary to do so. The Republican's goal is to limit the size and scope of government at all costs, cutting entitlements as much as is necessary to do so. This is why there can be no grand compromise, the only things each side can compromise on are exactly what they're trying to avoid at all costs.

Naturaly I side with the Republicans on this one. I have no love for Social Security or Medicare. Quite the opposite, if I were king (lol!) they would simply cease to exist. They're utterly incompatible with my view of our liberty and property rights.

If the Dems win on this I do think it would lead to a worse country, period. You don't promote prosperity by giving the government more power and more control, that's the opposite of liberty to boot.

The Dems' opposition to gun owners rights is a prime example of their attacks on our right to life. Every restriction they place on the average citizen's ability to exercise their right to keep and bear arms is an attack on that citizen's right to life.

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Subject: Re: I used to feel guilty Date: 12/6/2012 8:25 AM
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This fiscal cliff situation is a perfect example. The Dems goal is to protect entitlements at all costs, raising taxes as high as necessary to do so. The Republican's goal is to limit the size and scope of government at all costs, cutting entitlements as much as is necessary to do so.

I don't understand how you come to that view considering the Republican Party has never in my lifetime actually done anything to limit the size and scope of government. Just the opposite.

And raising the top marginal tax rate on income over $250,000 by three or five percent, back to the level it was just a few years ago, does not seem to me so outrageous a way to reduce the deficit.

My view, with which you will no doubt disagree, is that Republicans in Congress aren't trying to limit government's size or scope, but instead protect the interests of their patrons.

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Author: Colovion Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 112200 of 135721
Subject: Re: I used to feel guilty Date: 12/6/2012 8:54 AM
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My view, with which you will no doubt disagree, is that Republicans in Congress aren't trying to limit government's size or scope, but instead protect the interests of their patrons.

I don't entirely disagree. To say I'm less than happy with the Republicans' track record on actually limiting the size and scope of government would be an understatement. However, at least they talk about limiting it (then cave in and utterly fail to do so).

The Dems, on the other hand, their goal is pretty clear: make as many people as dependent upon the federal government as possible then tell those people they have to keep voting Dem to keep their goodies. Limiting the size and/or scope of government is the last thing they want to do. They don't even pretend to want to do it, nobody would believe them anyway.

It's impossible for me to even consider supporting that. My rep is Dingell... he's A+ rated by the NRA for supporting gun rights. I'll NEVER vote for him. Why? He's never seen an expansion of government largess that he hasn't whole-heartedly supported (or introduced in the first place!) Doesn't matter that he supports gun rights if he's against everything else I stand for.

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Author: hrse Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 112201 of 135721
Subject: Re: I used to feel guilty Date: 12/6/2012 9:08 AM
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Thanks. I accept your concession.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

CVSUSN wrote: I suspect your thoughts fully represent those of the Left in general and brings to mind the Nazi Sturm Abteilung (SA) commonly referred to as the Brown Shirts of 1930s Germany.

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Subject: Re: I used to feel guilty Date: 12/6/2012 9:32 AM
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I don't entirely disagree. To say I'm less than happy with the Republicans' track record on actually limiting the size and scope of government would be an understatement. However, at least they talk about limiting it (then cave in and utterly fail to do so).

I don't think they "cave in." I think for most of them it's completely disingenuous empty rhetoric. For many, it's just dishonest b.s., crap they tell people to disguise their real interests.

The Dems, on the other hand, their goal is pretty clear: make as many people as dependent upon the federal government as possible then tell those people they have to keep voting Dem to keep their goodies.

I don't believe that. I think it has more to do with a often misplaced sense of do-gooder-ism. For example, the what motivates folks (like me) who want to see a national health care system, like the ones they have in Canada and France, isn't a cynical desire to entrap voters and make them forever dependent on the Dems. I simply think we'd all be much better off that way.

Does that mean politicians from both parties don't try to "bribe" voters? No. They do. All the time. And the "something-for-nothing" pitch works both ways. Republicans promise "free sh*t" to folks in terms of tax cuts -- "we'll give you what you want and you don't have to pay for it!" (But your grandchildren will.) The Dems aren't that different -- "we'll give you free sh*t and make the rich pay for it!"

Not to get all macroecon about it, but there's been a tremendous transfer of wealth in this country over the last 30 years from the lower-middle and middle class to the wealthy. I think that's bad for the country. I think it threatens our economic strength and national security. And that, in a nutshell, is why I'm in favor of policies that slow down and reverse this harmful three-decade-long trend.

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Author: CVSUSN Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 112204 of 135721
Subject: Re: I used to feel guilty Date: 12/6/2012 10:02 AM
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hrse,

OK, I guess I took intent on bringing ruin to this country as a significantly different statement than I fundamentally oppose their ideas..

Let me take the guess out of it for you. You were correct in your first assessment. Without doubt they intend to ruin this country. Is that clear enough for you?

President Obama clearly stated he wishes to fundamentally transform the country without detailing how it would impact our natural rights. As we have proceeded with (among others) ObamaCare/ObamaTax, budget negotiations, and now a wish to assume responsibility for personally determining the debt ceiling we are seeing more and more socialist/communist/fascist and other totalitarian facets of his fundamental transformation taking root and being implemented. This path ruins the principles upon which this country stands.

The difference is NOT in tactics. Tactics are differing implements to achieve the same objective. The difference is with strategic vision and policy. Obama puts the state before individual with the state doling out benefits, i.e. ObamaCare/ObamaTax, welfare, retirement, etc. Conservatives, or at least my vision, has the state subservient to the individual with the individual assuming responsibility and accountability for his own actions. The stated purpose of the founding fathers.

Obama's vision stands in direct contrast to the founding fathers. Call it fundamental transformation if you choose, but it ruins the country's foundation.

Now, about your "physical restraint and or force" comment, I'd like to hear more from you on when/where/why something like this is justified.

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Author: CVSUSN Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 112205 of 135721
Subject: Re: I used to feel guilty Date: 12/6/2012 10:05 AM
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Dope,

I think the democrats want to crush the Republicans. To that end they're willing to absorb a lot of damage to the economy in their zeal to beat down the GOP.

If that is the case, we are left with one party. A one party system. Hmm. Soviet Union. Nazi Germany. Communist China. North Korea. Totalitarianism.

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Author: iamski Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 112206 of 135721
Subject: Re: I used to feel guilty Date: 12/6/2012 10:34 AM
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The Dems, on the other hand, their goal is pretty clear: make as many people as dependent upon the federal government as possible

Didn't they even create a video or something showing how citizens SHOULD rely on government through every event in their lives? Is there a link to that on the web somewhere?

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Author: CVSUSN Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 112207 of 135721
Subject: Re: I used to feel guilty Date: 12/6/2012 10:43 AM
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iamski,

Didn't they even create a video or something showing how citizens SHOULD rely on government through every event in their lives? Is there a link to that on the web somewhere?

Yes, it's the life of Julia:

http://www.barackobama.com/life-of-julia

Cradle to grave care. The very essence of totalitarianism.

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Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 112208 of 135721
Subject: Re: I used to feel guilty Date: 12/6/2012 10:43 AM
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Obama's vision stands in direct contrast to the founding fathers.

Liberals believe Founding Fathers is incorrect, they think and vision those folks as our Funding Fathers.

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Author: ShelbyBoy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 112211 of 135721
Subject: Re: I used to feel guilty Date: 12/6/2012 11:22 AM
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Do you think Dem leadership is intent on ruining the country. Do you think Dem leadership wants the country in ruin?


One man's ruins is another man's paradise.



ShelbyBoy

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Author: lowstudent Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 112212 of 135721
Subject: Re: I used to feel guilty Date: 12/6/2012 11:26 AM
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Do you think Dem leadership is intent on ruining the country. Do you think Dem leadership wants the country in ruin?

________________________________

Just for the record, when someone is a credit card thief, I do not for a second believe they are intent on ruining anyone's credit rating. In fact I am sure they do not care at all, and only are worried about their own desires.

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Author: xLife Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 112214 of 135721
Subject: Re: I used to feel guilty Date: 12/6/2012 12:14 PM
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Re this:

Not to get all macroecon about it, but there's been a tremendous transfer of wealth in this country over the last 30 years from the lower-middle and middle class to the wealthy. I think that's bad for the country. I think it threatens our economic strength and national security. And that, in a nutshell, is why I'm in favor of policies that slow down and reverse this harmful three-decade-long trend.

Read this:

If the American economy were an automobile, you would say the transmission is failing. The engine works, but not all wheels are getting power. To put the matter less metaphorically: The economy no longer reliably and consistently transmits productivity gains to workers. The result is that many millions of Americans, in particular less-skilled men, are leaving the workforce, a phenomenon the country has never seen before on the present scale.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/12/the-end-...

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Subject: Re: I used to feel guilty Date: 12/6/2012 12:20 PM
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Didn't they even create a video or something showing how citizens SHOULD rely on government through every event in their lives? Is there a link to that on the web somewhere?

Maybe, I can't keep track of all the "federal government uber alles" indoctrination the Dems put out. After you see them falling over themselves to proclaim "We belong to the government!" at the DNC is there really any argument that they aren't encouraging everyone to prostitute themselves to the government's every whim?!? I mean... it doesn't get any more blatant than that.

There's really no limit to what they want the government to control. Even when they're pretending to be for liberty (so-called "abortion rights") what they're really arguing for is for the feds to dictate that abortion is right and legal everywhere. They just don't "get" freedom. Either that or they detest it as something that gets in their way. They sure as hell haven't championed it in my lifetime in any way, shape, manner or form!

Again, not that the GOP is perfect on this score (far from it) but being lukewarm is preferrable to being outright hostile to freedom. That's the bottom line, Dems are hostile to freedom.

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Author: hrse Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 112218 of 135721
Subject: Re: I used to feel guilty Date: 12/6/2012 2:48 PM
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Now, about your "physical restraint and or force" comment, I'd like to hear more from you on when/where/why something like this is justified.


For example, I believed that the Taliban was fully intent on ruining the country. I supported President Bush when he announced that we were going to attack the country where they were basing their operations.

If I thought that a political party was intent on ruining our contry, I would be in support of arresting them and putting them on trial.

If you believe that Dems are intent on ruining the country, how could you possibly agree with anything they propose?

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Author: CVSUSN Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 112259 of 135721
Subject: Re: I used to feel guilty Date: 12/7/2012 2:22 PM
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hrse,

Oh, realy? Godwin's Law? Really? You describe tactics, techniques and procedures (physical restraint or force) common to the SA of the '20s and '30s and then YOU throw Godwin's Law at ME? You poor, miserable soul.

Okay. Die Nazis sind verboten? Gut! Choose your totalitarian regime. Italian Fascists? Soviet/Russian Communists/Putinites? The North Korean Kims? Mao? Comfortable now? They all fit and would support your physical restraint or force. Anything to quell dissent.

hrse again!

If I thought that a political party was intent on ruining our country, I would be in support of arresting them and putting them on trial.

Really? And the direct links to totalitarian regimes now pointed out to you does not make you at least reflect on your tactics? The utter lack of tolerance?

So what, pray tell, in the mind of an ardent, practicing Leftist would ruin this country? A failure to enforce the Constitution? A failure to support individual rights? A failure to recognize the sovereign self? A failure to reign in government spending?

Your views are proving ghastly, but certainly entertaining in a deeply disturbing way.

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Author: hrse Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 112284 of 135721
Subject: Re: I used to feel guilty Date: 12/8/2012 1:38 PM
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So what, pray tell, in the mind of an ardent, practicing Leftist would ruin this country? A failure to enforce the Constitution? A failure to support individual rights? A failure to recognize the sovereign self? A failure to reign in government spending?

It seems you are quick to put labels on people. (ardent, practicing Leftist)

Not everyone who takes a position that does not match 100% with yours is at the polar opposite of you.

But you ask an interesting question. What in my mind would a political party need to do in order to be considered as having intent to ruin the country?

Allowing foreign troops to be stationed in US borders.
Signing treaties that put the US at a distinct disadvantage.
Committing US resources to campaigns that have no advantage to the US, with possible exceptions for humanitarian campaigns.

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