Message Font: Serif | Sans-Serif
 
UnThreaded | Threaded | Whole Thread (16) | Ignore Thread Prev Thread | Next Thread
Author: it409 Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 166011  
Subject: I wouldn't try this at home Date: 2/7/2013 9:53 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 21
Table Saw - This is unbelievable!!

This is an example of believing in your product!
For those of you who use a table saw, you will find this fascinating.


http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=E3mzhvMgrLE&NR=1/
Print the post Back To Top
Author: wecoguy Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158270 of 166011
Subject: Re: I wouldn't try this at home Date: 2/7/2013 1:45 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
Expensive tool, and just demo means replacing blade and stopper... And it's only the one tool in a shop of many...

Print the post Back To Top
Author: ptheland Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158272 of 166011
Subject: Re: I wouldn't try this at home Date: 2/7/2013 1:54 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 7
Expensive tool,

I think they mentioned something less than $100. That's not very expensive in my book, particularly when compared to the loss of a finger, or hand, or arm.

and just demo means replacing blade and stopper...

Yep. But I think the TV show's production budget will cover that. And quite a few outtakes as well.

In practice, I'd still argue that it's easier to replace the blade and stopping mechanism than a finger. The hard part for the designers to avoid was probably false positives - stopping the blade when it's something other than a finger touching the blade.

And it's only the one tool in a shop of many...

True that. My dad lost part of a finger to a planer. Still, an additional safety on one well-used tool is better than no additional safety.

--Peter

Print the post Back To Top
Author: xSixSigmaMBB Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158273 of 166011
Subject: Re: I wouldn't try this at home Date: 2/7/2013 2:41 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 3
The issue however is that you can't just put this on any old table saw... you have to buy theirs!

For $300 I can buy a good job site saw. Their comparable one costs nearly $1500. Yes, the replacement brake costs about $80 on their site.

xSSMBB

Print the post Back To Top
Author: wecoguy Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158275 of 166011
Subject: Re: I wouldn't try this at home Date: 2/7/2013 2:57 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
The SawStop table saw itself is a high end tool, pricey, from $1800 for the simple Contractor version to over $2500 for shop cabinet saws... $70 is for the stopper cartridge, plus blades I and others use may aadd another $100 to that... And now Sawstop is trying to push their way into places that may just can't afford them, schools, other public institutions, so it looks to me that their marketing team has taken over... Not without opposition...

http://toolmonger.com/2012/09/14/more-sawstop-bs/

So for the homeowner, hobbyist it's out of reach most likely, there are no retro kits, much less adapters to long time manufacturers like Delta, Grizzly, etc.. My saw is a 1940s Walker-Turner 10" cabinet saw, in great shape, in no danger of being replaced...

While it is great technology, to me it's more useful to teach safe operation, maintenance, than to rely on maybe letting the users guard down... I had one incident as a 15 year old when I had made up my own small saw, I got careless, the blade tried to take a divot from my thumb as I reached over, lesson learned... many decades ago...

Print the post Back To Top
Author: AlanK Three stars, 500 posts Old School Fool Motley Fool One Everlasting Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158276 of 166011
Subject: Re: I wouldn't try this at home Date: 2/8/2013 1:10 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 12
The Saw Stop technology is available only from the inventor because all other saw manufacturers refused to buy it when it was offered. Denied entry to the existing table saw world, the inventor designed and built his own line of saws. While he was at it, he hired engineers to reengineer the table saw from the ground up. Lots of improvements were made e.g. there is much better dust collection, the stop switch is big and easy to hit with your knee when both hands are busy steadying the wood fed into the blade and the saw is absolutely dead accurate right out of the box. I own one and am extremely happy with it. I think of it as insurance. It is also an excellent saw. Yes, it cost a bit more but then, I also value my fingers very highly.

The fit hit the shan in 2010 when an untrained construction worker was given a contractor's saw (Ryobi) with the safety features removed. He was hurt badly and sued the manufacturer. It was stipulated that he was untrained and that the safety features were removed. The man asked for a $250,000 award. The jury gave him $1.5 million. It woke up the industry and kindled a big debate among woodworkers as to liability.

Opponents claim there are existing safety features that work, that the technology is expensive and that in this case in particular the liability should have been on both the user and his employer.

Proponents point out that the blade covers and other safety features are annoying and are routinely removed by users. There are over 3,000 - 4000 amputations of one or more fingers annually costing over $2 billion dollars a year to treat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SawStop)from table saw injuries. Proponents also point to all other industries where manufacturers and employers are required to employ safety technology where it is available and these rules in fact have vastly reduced worker injury the world over.

Reviews of the saw have been uniformly laudatory. Some examples:
http://woodworking.about.com/od/recommendations/gr/SawStopCN...
http://warpedboards.wordpress.com/2012/03/27/once-upon-a-saw...
http://flairwoodworks.com/2011/03/28/why-not-a-sawstop/

http://www.oregonlive.com/business/index.ssf/2010/03/sawstop...

Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Print the post Back To Top
Author: wecoguy Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158277 of 166011
Subject: Re: I wouldn't try this at home Date: 2/8/2013 3:52 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
Well, if you feel you need a crutch, enjoy it...

All I see is a heavy handed marketing scheme. Your multiple links, trying to justify it says more than my couple posts. I'm long retired with all appendages intact, so yes, I'm a very cynical no-sale...

Just know that if you depend on it to save a nick or two, some other tool will jump out and nail you before you know what hit you... A simple crescent wrench, open end that slips, a clamp that slips, a million ways that are a lot more deadly than a table saw.

IF you actually do stuff, there will be surprises, depending on this crutch is pointless... Accidents happen 24/7, in all trades, or whether we're on the job of not, it's part of life, I think some have missed the boat, need those crutches I guess..

Print the post Back To Top
Author: AlanK Three stars, 500 posts Old School Fool Motley Fool One Everlasting Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158278 of 166011
Subject: Re: I wouldn't try this at home Date: 2/8/2013 4:01 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 6
Accidents happen 24/7, in all trades, or whether we're on the job of not, it's part of life

You are no doubt right. We should probably sack OSHA, food inspectors, car seat belt laws, baby seat laws, EPA and all those other wasteful gument agencies and laws trying to protect us from ourselves. Just a waste of money. Let the buyer beware and be careful.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: wecoguy Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158284 of 166011
Subject: Re: I wouldn't try this at home Date: 2/8/2013 11:40 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
Indeed, give up on the Nannies! Particularly the pushy ones... They don't have your interests in mind, they have theirs. Isn't that sweet?

Print the post Back To Top
Author: Dwdonhoff Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158288 of 166011
Subject: Re: I wouldn't try this at home Date: 2/8/2013 1:28 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 5
C'mon guys....

I recced Wecoguy
I recced AlanK
I didn't regret either rec!

The oddest rec was for AlanK's rant about sacking OSHA, et al nanny regulations... because I recced it as though it was sincere (rather than sarcasm.)

*NOTE* the SawStop table saw WAS NOT a government product...
NOT the result of restrictive mandatory protective regulations,
NOT the result of tax-payer funded research,
NOT the result of economically ignorant loss-leader public investment.

It was created and provided at the inventor's own risk, we privately solicited risk capital.
It sells entirely on a voluntary basis, without any subsidy or mandates.

Is it "expensive"? As we can see, the answer is entirely relative to perspective.

If it was in my shop, I'd use it... but I probably wouldn't buy it at that premium. (Yeah, I disable the PITA safety features on my worm-drive & table saws... HOWEVER,)
On the other hand, if my son was outfitting a shop, I'd encourage (perhaps cover the differential in costs) for him to take the safer, more superiorly engineered solution.

Bottom line; Celebrate the free, voluntary markets! This is an example of natural success.

Dave

Print the post Back To Top
Author: ptheland Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158289 of 166011
Subject: Re: I wouldn't try this at home Date: 2/8/2013 4:43 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 3
Indeed, give up on the Nannies! Particularly the pushy ones... They don't have your interests in mind, they have theirs. Isn't that sweet?

Of course, this particular product isn't dictated by any nanny at all. It's a product of the free market. An inventor sees a potential risk (I'm pretty sure that you agree that there is a risk in operating a table saw), and comes up with an idea that reduces the risk.

Then he develops the idea and tries to sell it to existing table saw makers. They decline, so he starts making his own line of table saws which include his invention.

No one has to buy his product. They are perfectly free to choose it or not.

Personally, I think it's a pretty clever invention. If I were in the market for a high end table saw, I'd certainly consider it.

But that's the whole idea. I get to consider it for myself. And you're free to reject it for yourself. And people are free to recommend it to others - or to recommend against it.

No nannies involved at all.

--Peter

Print the post Back To Top
Author: wecoguy Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158303 of 166011
Subject: Re: I wouldn't try this at home Date: 2/9/2013 1:01 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
Dave - part of my cynicism about the SawStop game is the way they are marketing it, pressuring public entities, wheedling their way into the public trough... Slurping up taxpayer dollars in tight times... Monies better spent to keep the lights on!

This tech is not the end product needed... Why make it destructive? Sell more product! Why ruin the blade? Why stop the blade? As noted it one of the columns, just drop the blade below the table! Reset it, continue the job... Instead a major event, blown profits, time... Death by little nicks...

Others will be along with competitive setups... I don't see the rush, other than pushy marketing...

weco

Print the post Back To Top
Author: wecoguy Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158305 of 166011
Subject: Re: I wouldn't try this at home Date: 2/9/2013 1:13 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
Well, it was clever, a few years ago... I'd be holding out for a non-destructive solution..

Another thought... Resale value.. Would I buy a used SawStop?

Too many patent leather shoes selling it to my mind...

Reject...

Print the post Back To Top
Author: wecoguy Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158307 of 166011
Subject: Re: I wouldn't try this at home Date: 2/9/2013 3:59 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
A much better alternative.... Non-destructive, etc..

http://www.finewoodworking.com/item/40477/blade-brake-invent...

Print the post Back To Top
Author: ptheland Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158310 of 166011
Subject: Re: I wouldn't try this at home Date: 2/9/2013 8:28 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
A much better alternative.... Non-destructive, etc..

Very cool. And I suspect that it wouldn't be difficult to adapt that technology to other power tools - router (table mounted, anyway), planer, band saw, and a whole host of others.

Of course, you can't buy it yet. So for the moment, that's an advantage to SawStop. But just for now.

--Peter

Print the post Back To Top
Author: wecoguy Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 158311 of 166011
Subject: Re: I wouldn't try this at home Date: 2/9/2013 9:42 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
Right, still working on vendors...

I started a new thread on the woodworking board, with this link, will add others if I find them...

Chasing a box-cutter blade plane at the moment...

Print the post Back To Top
UnThreaded | Threaded | Whole Thread (16) | Ignore Thread Prev Thread | Next Thread
Advertisement