UnThreaded | Threaded | Whole Thread (5) | Ignore Thread Prev | Next
Author: Milligram46 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 1947827  
Subject: I'm Dissapointed Mom... Date: 3/8/2004 3:51 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 112
LurkerMom wrote:

http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=20451857

Now let me start off. Mom and I have had words - but I have respected her as someone that usually roots her posts in facts - not folly or outright falsehoods. But this post is so off the mark.

========================================================

The ad President Bush should run are scenes from..........

1. The car bombing in 1993 in the parking lot at the World Trade Center...

...Those responsible were either never found or some slapped on the wrist with jail time.


First off all clearly a slam on Clinton without mentioning names. Never mind the fact that Clinton had been in office less than 40 days and the plot had been hatched two years earlier under Bush I's watch - an administration that did absolutely nothing of note in counter-terrorism with one exception. Further, the planners and executors of the 1993 WTC bombings are all rotting in jail. How quickly we've forgotten Mohammad Solamid [sic?] and the idiot he was going back for the deposit on the blown up Ryder truck. If life in a maximum security federal prison with no hope for parole is a slap on the wrist...lets keep things in perspective. Gary Ridgeway killed more people than those that died in 1993 at the WTC - he got life in prison...both incidents mass murders.

========================================================

The ad President Bush should run are scenes from..........

2. The tanker truck exploding in 1996 exploding at the Khobar Towers in Saudi Arabia killing 19 Americans and wounding 372 others...

...those responsible were either never found or some slapped on the wrist with jail time...


What? Lets keep some perspective here. Our "ally" *ehem* Saudi Arabia made dozens of arrests, several executions, and a few unfortunate deaths in custody in the case. Our "ally" refused to let military or FBI investigators speak to these people. In June of 2001 14 indictments on 46 counts were issued against 13 Saudia Arabians, 1 Lebanese man. Guess who the US says funded and helped plan the attack? Iran. On October 10, 2001 they were added to the terrorism most wanted list - when all of a sudden terrorism became REALLY important a month earlier.

Now if torture and death in a Saudi prison is a slap on the wrist...and if our *ehem* allies won't let us talk to the criminals - nor it seems done much of anything in their much ballyhooed "crack down" on terrorism to bring in 13 of their own nationals since going on the FBI most wanted list in 2001 after 9/11.

========================================================

The ad President Bush should run are scenes from..........

3. The United States Embassies in Tanzania and Kenya simultaneously being bombed in 1998 where 250 people including 12 Americans killed...

...those responsible were either never found or some slapped on the wrist with jail time.


Here we go again. Real simple here. Lets go back to August of 1998. An embattled President broiled in a scandal over lying under oath. No doubt a bad thing. By all reports, including that of George Tenet, the CURRENT CIA Director who was CIA Director in 1998 and has been heavily defended by George W. Bush - Osama bin Laden was flat out spotted and the cruise missile attack was ordered. Osama was missed by an hour. The reaction from dittoheads - WAG THE DOG - how dare Clinton use unilateral action without asking permission. Same sheet music, different dance.

So what is going on here? Well six of the fifteen most wanted are already in custody, and were before 2001. The remaining members are part of Al Qaeda and on the terrorism most wanted list created in October 2001. The same list we've made almost ZERO progress on in the last three years.

========================================================

The ad President Bush should run are scenes from..........

4. The 17 United States Sailors murdered by suicide bombers in the harbor of Aden, Yemen in 2000...

...those responsible were either never found or some slapped on the wrist with jail time...


Sorry - but you're wrong again. Yemen officials have arrested 30 in connection with the attack on the Cole. The mastermind behind the attack? Well none other than Osama bin Laden himself. Now if spending time in a Yemen prison is a slap on the wrist - I suggest you compare conditions at Gitmo or Leavenworth first. It would have been unusually kind for these folks to be IN US custody.

========================================================

The ad President Bush should run are scenes from..........

In 2001 four airplanes were hijacked over the United States killing 3000 thousand people.


No arguements here.

Since then the United States has captured or killed thousands of terrorist.

This mom isn't accurate. If you're claiming 9/11 here how many convictions have there been? One. Not even here in the United States - but in Germany and that conviction was overturned. The evil doers for 9/11 have not answered for their crime. Mullah Omar and ObL are very much alive and well. No doubt we have disrupted their network but hundreds of grieving families in Iraq who had their mosques blown up last week would disagree with your assesment. As a matter of fact mom, in terms of population and losses, the mosque attacks in Iraq last week were worse than the 9/11 attacks in the United States.

290,300,000 / 3,000 versus 24,600,000 / 281

Those responsible have so far been deterred from carrying out more attacks on America soil, and are hunted like animals.

Deterred from carrying out attacks on American soil is subjective. You can slice it, dice it, cut it up and spin it any way you want, Ronald Reagan's administration was horrible when it came to terrorism. More Americans (minus 9/11) died due to terrorist activity under Reagan's watch than any other US president. How bad? Well there was the Beiruit Marine Barracks bombing and then the US Embassy bombing. No one has been arrested for those crimes to date. Then you had the Achille Lauro - were Italian officals let the terrorists walk away after slap on the wrist sentences. Then you had Pan Am 103 - Crazy Quadaifi is STILL in power and NOW he's our buddy - despite having a chemical weapons program and a human rights record that makes the Chinese look kind. Not to mention crazy Quadafi was Pakitsan's biggest nuclear customer - right under the nose of George Tenet, CURRENT CIA director.

If you make the qualification of American soil as the point of attack - well historically we've done great. In my lifetime there have about six or seven terrorist attacks on US soil - with two of them foreign (both WTC attacks and Pentagon on the same day). There have been two Capitol bombings, OKC in 1995, and I feel like I'm leaving out one more.

However hundreds, close to thousands of innocent Iraqis, Philipinos, Pakistanis, and Malaysians have died in the War on Terror we are supporting - and their numbers are going up. We've stirred up the hornets nest. Ask anyone schooled in counter terrorism with NBC agents (Nuclear, Biological, Chemical) and they will all tell you the same thing with few exceptions. The case of a WMD attack on US soil is not an "if" but a "when."

Over 50 million people have been freed from tyranny and the seeds of democracy planted in their countries.

Seriously - this is laughable. The concept that 50-million have been freed from tyranny is on paper - correct.

28.7 million Afghanistan + 24.6 million Iraq = 52.3 million people

Afghanistan is still largely a lawless country. Warlords still control vast sections of the country and the Taliban has made great strides in a comeback. If you're not in Kabul during daylight hours, you're taking your life into your own hands. Fear and control by power is still the norm. The token force of 10,000 US troops are largely in Kabul. The current government is grossly under funded and the desperate Afghanistan population has turned to the one thing that makes them money - poppy production that ends up as high grade heroin in Russia, Western Europe and the United States. That is the current legacy.

With the signing of an interim Iraqi constitution strides are being made. It is not all bad - but people are dying by the hundreds almost weekly in Iraq due to terrorist activity and civil rights for women are being cut back drastically. Even our own CIA says mom that the country could plunge into full blown civil war at any time and is very fearful of the collapse of the country into a Somalia or Afghanistan.

The difference is not world appeasement or giving the UN the deciding factor in the future of America...

Now this is the silliest assertion of all. Our whole ARGUEMENT for going into Iraq was enforcement of UN resolutions. We went into Afghanistan on UN resolution with almost total world support. Where did the decision to send troops to Haiti come from and who called for Aristide to step down first? Ummm, sorry to say it was France calling the shots on a country in our backyard.

========================================================

I found it interesting in your post you failed to mention Oklahoma City. Ol' Tim Tim is now worm food and Terry Nichols ir well on his way to joining him. You didn't mention Eric Rudolph either. As a matter of fact for me Eric Rudolph is absolutely horrible for the reason that in his last abortion clinic bombing attack he placed secondary charges - to explode after rescue squads responded to inflict injury on first responder public officials. That's a page right out of Palestine Terrorism 101.

You never mentioned Reagans incredibly weak record on terrorism, or the carnage under his watch. You never mentioned how Bush I did almost nothing for terrorism - and helped create the problems we currently have in Somalia, Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan. You never mention the Anthrax mailing case of 9/11 in which we have absolutely no leads what so ever.

Seriously mom - you are smarter and way better than this. Your post although stirring and patriotic is just flat out wrong.

I'd also like to point out that the most recent FoxNews poll from March 3 and March 4 shows that more Americans are dissatisfied or angry with the Bush Adminisration than the Clinton Administration.

Shifting blame on the past administration for failures is not the answer. In your logic John Kerry should show pictures of the Space Needle, Los Angeles International Airport, FBI Headquarters, The George Washington Bridge, The Holland Tunnel, and The US Embassy in Yemen as proof positive of what an active anti-terrorism program can do. All of these were targets of terrorism that ended in arrests and convictions during Clinton's watch (since you seem to be keeping score).

I'd also like to see the answer on why - if most of the failures you documented were under Geoerge Tenet's watch, a Clinton appointee from 1997, and still employed as CIA Director by the current administration - why oh why does dear George, if he is so incompetent, and Clinton was SO bad and weak on terrorism, why oh why would the man leading the charge on intel and counter-operations still has a job in the same roll? Why?

Look - 9/11 was horrible - we've made some great strides but this administration has a lot of holes in their counter-terrorism program. We kiss Kim Jong Ill's North Korean butt, we're giving crazy Quidafi a free pass and *gag* trusting his sincerity all of a sudden, and we've turned a blind eye to Iran and Pakistani WMD sales to the Axis of Evil. All of these are indefensible (with the Pakistani trasngressions being the worst). A reminder to, the current Pakistani leader is by definition, a military dictator who overtook his country, a nuclear power skilled in WMD arms trade in a coup. His lead engineer and guru on nuclear weapons running an eBayish operation from Pakistan on nukes - and now quite possible with his resume out. The knife cuts both ways and as has been the sad case in this administration, only activities that curry favor and/or votes are done - those that hold little interest otherwise can swept under the carpet.

http://www.infoplease.com/spot/terrorism6.html
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/af.html
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/iz.html
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/us.html
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Print the post  
UnThreaded | Threaded | Whole Thread (5) | Ignore Thread Prev | Next

Announcements

Post of the Day:
Value Hounds

Medallion Financial: TAXI!
What was Your Dumbest Investment?
Share it with us -- and learn from others' stories of flubs.
When Life Gives You Lemons
We all have had hardships and made poor decisions. The important thing is how we respond and grow. Read the story of a Fool who started from nothing, and looks to gain everything.
Community Home
Speak Your Mind, Start Your Blog, Rate Your Stocks

Community Team Fools - who are those TMF's?
Contact Us
Contact Customer Service and other Fool departments here.
Work for Fools?
Winner of the Washingtonian great places to work, and "#1 Media Company to Work For" (BusinessInsider 2011)! Have access to all of TMF's online and email products for FREE, and be paid for your contributions to TMF! Click the link and start your Fool career.
Advertisement