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Author: sykesix Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 60190  
Subject: I'm Voting Republican Date: 6/11/2008 12:30 PM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiQJ9Xp0xxU
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Author: GusSmed Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 12842 of 60190
Subject: Re: I'm Voting Republican Date: 6/11/2008 3:13 PM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiQJ9Xp0xxU

I loved the concept, but my enjoyment was marred by some of the strawmen thrown in with the legitimate concerns, and the luddite "I think genetic engineering is bad" bit.

Points that even the Republicans will agree are correct - they might phrase it differently, but they think these are good reasons to vote Republican:

"Women just can't be trusted to make decisions about their own bodies."
"I need to be told whom I can love."
"I just need them to tell me how I can best show a lifetime commitment."
"I don't feel I deserve health insurance."
"So I can stay in Iraq."
"So I can go to Iran."

Points I think are fairly close to on-target, but many Republicans might argue are unfair depictions of their policies:

"I'm voting Republican so my little Catelin can be in a classroom with at least 30 other children."
"I've already seen the great outdoors."
"Corporations should not have to pay to clean up environmental damage."
"Texas needs more billionaires."
"The constitution is just one big inconvenient headache."
"Because all other countries are inferior to us. And we should start as many wars as we need to keep it that way."
"Hybrid cars really suck."

Points I think are borderline at best, though the flavor isn't entirely off:

"We like knowing that even if we're separate, we'll still be called equal."
"I really enjoy being screwed by the utility companies."
"We need more minorities in prison."
"I think the whole world should be run by one big corporation."

Points I think are falsehoods:

"I don't really want a cure for AIDS or breast cancer."

AIDS I'll grant you. But are Republicans really opposed to research on breast cancer? He'd do better mentioning something affected by stem cell research.

"I think new drugs should be made available immediately, whether they've been tested properly or not."

This one's a little fuzzy for me as well. I know there are some lunatics here on TMF who think there's something wrong with the concept of the FDA, but I wasn't aware that Republicans were against drug testing. For outrageous drug company profits, yes, but not against drug testing.

Points where I disagree with the message:

"We don't like shopping at smaller, neighborhood stores."

It's unclear to me that the Democrats are actually doing anything more about this than the Republicans. And honestly, I don't care about this issue directly. Rather, I'm more concerned about the side effects, such as possible monopolies. Not every large store has to be a WalMart, as CostCo has demonstrated.

"We just love cheap plastic crap from China."

Actually, for the most part, everyone likes products from China. No mention of the clothes he's wearing, for example. Of more concern is product safety due to lack of regulation, as has shown up recently in toothpaste and children's toys.

"I don't want to know if the food I'm eating has been genetically modified or exposed to radiation."

This is know-nothing fear mongering. Practically everything we eat, from tomatoes to wheat, has been genetically modified the old-fashioned way: by seletive breeding. And exposing food to radiation does not make it radioactive.

Should these be labeled? That's arguably true. But that the idea that these foods are somehow dangerous is way off base.

- Gus

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Author: TMFPMarti Big funky green star, 20000 posts Home Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 12843 of 60190
Subject: Re: I'm Voting Republican Date: 6/11/2008 3:24 PM
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"I'm voting Republican so my little Catelin can be in a classroom with at least 30 other children."

Yeah, this one stuck in my craw too. In my Chicago days the teachers struck now and again, and always for smaller class sizes so Becky and Billy could learn better. Funny thing, they always settled for just more money.

Phil

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Author: AcmeFool Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 12844 of 60190
Subject: Re: I'm Voting Republican Date: 6/11/2008 4:13 PM
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Yeah, this one stuck in my craw too. In my Chicago days the teachers struck now and again, and always for smaller class sizes so Becky and Billy could learn better. Funny thing, they always settled for just more money.

Given the choice of a 10% pay raise or having my classes reduced from 32 students to 22, I would take the smaller class sizes. But I would also be outvoted by the other teachers in the county.

Acme

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 12845 of 60190
Subject: Re: I'm Voting Republican Date: 6/11/2008 10:52 PM
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Acme: "Given the choice of a 10% pay raise or having my classes reduced from 32 students to 22, I would take the smaller class sizes. But I would also be outvoted by the other teachers in the county."

Is that new math?

If you had 10 less students, that is 1/3rd less students.

It would mean they would then have to hire 1 new teachers for every two already there, since to reduce 2 classes by 10 would mean a new class of 20.

Thus, the cost for that reduction would be more than double, since now they would have to provide another class room, heat and cooling and lighting for that classroom, and a teacher will all the overhead, benefits, etc.

I would say that would be a 50% increase in cost at least.

SO it is cheaper to give 2 teachers 10% increases, for a total of 10% of budget....rather than your idea of a 50% increase in the school budget.

In addition, if they didn't have the classrooms, they would have to go on a major million dollar building campaign, get tax payer appproval of new school buildings, etc, then build them.

t.

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Author: AcmeFool Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 12846 of 60190
Subject: Re: I'm Voting Republican Date: 6/11/2008 11:13 PM
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I really hate that you have to see blocked fools replies...no matter how you set them, they show in your replies box...



SO it is cheaper to give 2 teachers 10% increases, for a total of 10% of budget....rather than your idea of a 50% increase in the school budget.

It is amazing to me that you have such reading comprehension issues. I did not say anything about what the SCHOOL DISTRICT would prefer. I stated how the TEACHERS would vote.

I also never said it was my idea to increase school budgets by 50%. I simply gave a scenario regarding how I would vote compared to the other teachers. Is it too much to expect someone to actually comprehend simple English before replying?

Acme
(Who would bet any sum of money that he knows more about math -- old, new, or otherwise -- than "t")

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Author: ariechert Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 12847 of 60190
Subject: Re: I'm Voting Republican Date: 6/12/2008 12:07 AM
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Acme: "Given the choice of a 10% pay raise or having my classes reduced from 32 students to 22, I would take the smaller class sizes. But I would also be outvoted by the other teachers in the county."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Kind of like my vote for President in the State of Tennessee. No matter how I vote Tennessee's electoral votes are going to McCain. I guess that sort of gives me some freedom to really vote my heart since I can vote for the most obscure candidate on the ballot if I really want to and it won't make any difference.

Art

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Author: agyjdgphil Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 12848 of 60190
Subject: Re: I'm Voting Republican Date: 6/12/2008 12:26 AM
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<Kind of like my vote for President in the State of Tennessee. No matter how I vote Tennessee's electoral votes are going to McCain. I guess that sort of gives me some freedom to really vote my heart since I can vote for the most obscure candidate on the ballot if I really want to and it won't make any difference.>

I know how you feel! I live in Texas and voted for Nader in 2000 to make a "statement" but would never have done so in Florida. I hate how the Electoral College effectively disenfranchises up to 49.9% of the population of any given state. Texas is so reliably red that my vote will probably never count on the national level. :( However, I'm not interested in any "obscure candidate on the ballot" this time around. :) Still won't matter.......sigh......

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Author: sykesix Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 12849 of 60190
Subject: Re: I'm Voting Republican Date: 6/12/2008 1:12 AM
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Is that new math?

If you had 10 less students, that is 1/3rd less students.


Is that new grammar?

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Author: Danger11 Three stars, 500 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 12851 of 60190
Subject: Re: I'm Voting Republican Date: 6/12/2008 8:36 AM
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I loved the concept, but my enjoyment was marred by some of the strawmen thrown in with the legitimate concerns, and the luddite "I think genetic engineering is bad" bit.

Gus,

I don't post much, but had to thank you for your reasoned and thoughtful response. It doesnt do either side of a discussion any good to resort to propaganda and non-sensical talking points. Your post should be getting more recs than the OP. Wish there were more posts like yours on these boards.

D

PS Ahhhhh! All of our dogs have been genetically engineered! Run for the hills!

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 12853 of 60190
Subject: Re: I'm Voting Republican Date: 6/12/2008 9:04 AM
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"I did not say anything about what the SCHOOL DISTRICT would prefer. I stated how the TEACHERS would vote."

Obviously...

But it is the tax payers who vote to fund any increases....and I doubt if they would want to see their school taxes go up 50%.

Reality is a bitch...


A 10% increase in budget would allow the average class to drop from 32 to 29. So that one new teacher had to be hired for every existing 10. And one class would have 30.

Your example was fatally flawed. A 10% increase in school budget would at best take your classroom down by 3 students...if the buildings already existed.


t.

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Author: markr33 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 12854 of 60190
Subject: Re: I'm Voting Republican Date: 6/12/2008 9:08 AM
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<<Kind of like my vote for President in the State of Tennessee. No matter how I vote Tennessee's electoral votes are going to McCain. I guess that sort of gives me some freedom to really vote my heart since I can vote for the most obscure candidate on the ballot if I really want to and it won't make any difference.>>

I know how you feel! I live in Texas and voted for Nader in 2000 to make a "statement" but would never have done so in Florida. I hate how the Electoral College effectively disenfranchises up to 49.9% of the population of any given state. Texas is so reliably red that my vote will probably never count on the national level. :( However, I'm not interested in any "obscure candidate on the ballot" this time around. :) Still won't matter.......sigh......


That's one of the reasons I like living in Florida ... my vote really counts! :-)

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 12856 of 60190
Subject: Re: I'm Voting Republican Date: 6/12/2008 9:10 AM
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agyi: ". I hate how the Electoral College effectively disenfranchises up to 49.9% of the population of any given state. "

Back to civics 101 for you.

We live in a Constitutional Republic

In order to protect the interests of the smaller states, the Constitution was set up with the Electoral College. Even the smallest state has 3 members (the total of the House members and Senators I think).

If you want to talk about 'disenfrachising' the vote, look no further than the Senate. The smallest state has 2. The biggest state has 2.

In order to pass legistlation, it has to be approved by BOTH houses of Congress, no?

So, in TX, with 10 million plus, you have two Sentors.

In AK or WY, with less than a million, they have 2. Each person in AK has 10 times the voting power.

Get over it. The PResendency isn't a 'popular vote'. IT never was intended to be.

Because of the current system, the candidates must visit and represent the needs of the majority of the states. Just visiting the 10 most populous states won't don't it.

You could also use your silly logic...any time a vote is split in Congress in the Senate, half the folks are 'disenfrachises. If one of their Senators votes Yes and the other No, half are losing. So?


t.

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Author: ariechert Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 12857 of 60190
Subject: Re: I'm Voting Republican Date: 6/12/2008 9:14 AM
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Get over it. The PResendency isn't a 'popular vote'. IT never was intended to be. - tele
-------------------------

LOL! It really doesn't bother me that much. I just don't get all that worked up about politics. I think about it maybe at most 2X a year. I'm more concerned about the price of chicken leg quarters and Ramen Noodles which make up a substantial portion of my diet.

Artie

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Author: ziggy29 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 12858 of 60190
Subject: Re: I'm Voting Republican Date: 6/12/2008 9:18 AM
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>> I hate how the Electoral College effectively disenfranchises up to 49.9% of the population of any given state. " <<

Electoral Colleges don't disenfranchise voters, states do.

See Article 2, Section 1 of the U.S. Constitution. Any state is free to choose how the electors are selected. Just because almost all states have chosen winner-take-all doesn't mean it's required by federal law. Nebraska, for example, allocates them by congressional district -- one elector for each congressional district won, plus two for the winner of the overall popular vote.

If you don't like that a candidate can get ALL the state's electoral vote with a plurality of the vote, take it up with your state legislature. They have the constitutional right to proportionally allocate electors to each candidate if they chose to do so.

Another thing here: there's not even a Constitutional requirement that people get to vote for president. Any state, if it had the political will, could choose to have the legislature choose the electors or even pass a law to choose them by coin toss. Such a move would likely never happen because it would be ridiculously unpopular and small-d undemocratic, but the Constitution does allow it.

#29

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Author: TMFPMarti Big funky green star, 20000 posts Home Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 12859 of 60190
Subject: Re: I'm Voting Republican Date: 6/12/2008 10:10 AM
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See Article 2, Section 1 of the U.S. Constitution. Any state is free to choose how the electors are selected. Just because almost all states have chosen winner-take-all doesn't mean it's required by federal law. Nebraska, for example, allocates them by congressional district -- one elector for each congressional district won, plus two for the winner of the overall popular vote.

Maine allocates the same way.

Also interesting is the "faithless elector." There's nothing in the Constitution that requires an elector to vote the way (s)he said he would on the ballot, and some have not over the years. Some states have such laws addressing this, but AFAIK they haven't been tested in court, probably because such a vote has never affected the outcome of the election.

There's also a bipartisan movement afoot to effectively award the Presidency to the highest popular vote getter, regardless of how the traditional red/blue count by states goes. The states would agree to award their electoral votes to the nationwide popular vote winner, regardless of how the particular state voted. The compact wouldn't go into effect until enough states have signed on to settle the election. AFAIK Maryland is the only state to have agreed so far.

Phil

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Author: AcmeFool Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 12862 of 60190
Subject: Re: I'm Voting Republican Date: 6/12/2008 12:41 PM
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Some people are persistently -- and likely intentionally -- ignorant.

My example was not flawed in the least. You just cannot seem to comprehend a hypothetical scenario. Nothing says hypotheticals have to be realistic. This is especially true when the scenario is biased in one direction, but people would STILL go the other way. That's the case here...

I will repeat for those that could not keep up the first 2 times -- I was only talking about what the teachers would do. It had nothing to do with what would ever be offered.

To take it further for those that cannot keep up with the flow of a thread...

Phil said: "In my Chicago days the teachers struck now and again, and always for smaller class sizes so Becky and Billy could learn better. Funny thing, they always settled for just more money."

Phil's interpretation here was that the teachers actually wanted smaller class sizes, but that they settled for higher pay instead.


I then said: Given the choice of a 10% pay raise or having my classes reduced from 32 students to 22, I would take the smaller class sizes. But I would also be outvoted by the other teachers in the county.

My point was not to discuss what the county would actually offer; it was to point out that the teachers would take the money even if they were offered the smaller class sizes they claimed they wanted.

Maybe it is too much to expect people to follow along. But, then again, nobody else has had any trouble...

Acme

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Author: sykesix Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 12863 of 60190
Subject: Re: I'm Voting Republican Date: 6/12/2008 1:18 PM
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Another thing here: there's not even a Constitutional requirement that people get to vote for president. Any state, if it had the political will, could choose to have the legislature choose the electors or even pass a law to choose them by coin toss. Such a move would likely never happen because it would be ridiculously unpopular and small-d undemocratic, but the Constitution does allow it.

Interestingly enough, the electors themselves aren't always obligated to follow the popular vote. Interesting wikipedia article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faithless_elector

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Author: TMFPMarti Big funky green star, 20000 posts Home Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 12864 of 60190
Subject: Re: I'm Voting Republican Date: 6/12/2008 1:27 PM
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Phil said: "In my Chicago days the teachers struck now and again, and always for smaller class sizes so Becky and Billy could learn better. Funny thing, they always settled for just more money."

Phil's interpretation here was that the teachers actually wanted smaller class sizes, but that they settled for higher pay instead.


No, Phil's implication was that what they wanted was more money, but in an effort to garner public support they claimed, repeatedly, to be striking for smaller class sizes. Evidently I need to work on clarity. In an effort to be perfectly clear:

I'm a fan of teachers and think they're underpaid. I'm a fan of neither teachers' unions, which serve to protect incompetent teachers, nor school boards, who underpay the teachers.

Phil

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Author: sykesix Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 12865 of 60190
Subject: Re: I'm Voting Republican Date: 6/12/2008 1:33 PM
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I loved the concept, but my enjoyment was marred by some of the strawmen thrown in with the legitimate concerns, and the luddite "I think genetic engineering is bad" bit.

It was over the top. It was funny, but had too many strawmen to be really effective. Amusing, but probably counter productive.

I posted it here instead of PA because I thought it was worth sharing but I didn't want it to get a bunch of recs and get on "Best Of" where a lot of people would see it. I'll ask people not to rec something like that next time.

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Author: AcmeFool Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 12867 of 60190
Subject: Re: I'm Voting Republican Date: 6/12/2008 2:00 PM
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No, Phil's implication was that what they wanted was more money, but in an effort to garner public support they claimed, repeatedly, to be striking for smaller class sizes. Evidently I need to work on clarity. In an effort to be perfectly clear:

I should have said my interpretation of what you wrote was that...

In the case of your desired meaning, my comment/scenario was perfectly in tune with what you were implying. Teachers claim to want smaller classes, but they would rather have more money. My scenario points this out in the extreme -- rather than take a 33% decrease in class size, teachers would rather have a 10% increase in pay.



I'm a fan of teachers and think they're underpaid. I'm a fan of neither teachers' unions, which serve to protect incompetent teachers, nor school boards, who underpay the teachers.

As someone that left a high-paying consulting job almost exactly one year ago to become a teacher, I agree with you completely. We don't really have unions here in Georgia, but there are organized groups that do some of the same things as unions. They do protect incompetent teachers.

And the school board made the moronic move of not giving teachers their "step increase" this year. This is the increase that gives extra pay based on having another year of experience. So, we simultaneously have the organizations protecting the bad teachers and the school board making moves that encourage the good teachers -- those that can get other jobs -- to move into another field. And they wonder why it is tough to attract good math and science teachers!

Acme

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Author: markr33 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 12874 of 60190
Subject: Re: I'm Voting Republican Date: 6/12/2008 3:16 PM
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I'm a fan of teachers and think they're underpaid. I'm a fan of neither teachers' unions, which serve to protect incompetent teachers, nor school boards, who underpay the teachers.

I also think that many teachers are underpaid. I'm curious what you think teachers should be paid, not expressed in dollars and cents, but rather expressed as a percentage of the average wages of the people (in this case, the parents of the people :-) they serve.

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 12877 of 60190
Subject: Re: I'm Voting Republican Date: 6/12/2008 3:26 PM
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"I also think that many teachers are underpaid. I'm curious what you think teachers should be paid, not expressed in dollars and cents, but rather expressed as a percentage of the average wages of the people (in this case, the parents of the people :-) they serve. "

My niece teaches at a magnet type school in Manhattan....

She probably would make about half as much if she got the average of what the folks make who send their kids there..maybe less.....

I think she makes in the mid 60s...and has the summer off....she's not happy, but she chose teaching as a career.....

She has Master's degree in Journalism, 3 years in the Peace Corps, a teaching degree from Columbia University.....

In many places in TX, teachers and school systems are subsidizes, and the teachers paid 50% more than the incomes of the parents of the kids they teach...lots of minimum wage type jobs and folks making $25,000 a year or $30,000 in thousands of TX towns.....outside the big cities....of course, houses cost $60,000-$80,000 or less.... but not many teachers are going to teach for $25,000 a year.....

Texas has a 'Robin Hood' plan where the high income districts get whacked for hundreds of millions of tax revenue which gets exported to the schools with less affluence.

One third of our school taxes is exported....That's about a thousand bucks per taxpayer here...

t.

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Author: ziggy29 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 12878 of 60190
Subject: Re: I'm Voting Republican Date: 6/12/2008 3:29 PM
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>> I also think that many teachers are underpaid. <<

IMO, they are not underpaid. I would agree that they make less relative to many other careers requiring the same level of education and experience, but that's not the same as saying they are underpaid.

I say they are not underpaid because according to supply and demand, there are enough people willing to choose teaching over higher paying jobs to keep the supply of potential teachers higher. Jobs that many people passionate about doing tend to have lousy pay because there are a lot of people who want to do those jobs even for lower pay than something that they would find soul-sucking.

And then there are the benefits. And all the holidays and time off they get relative to most workers.

#29

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Author: cliff666 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 12884 of 60190
Subject: Re: I'm Voting Republican Date: 6/12/2008 6:39 PM
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I also think that many teachers are underpaid. I'm curious what you think teachers should be paid, not expressed in dollars and cents, but rather expressed as a percentage of the average wages of the people (in this case, the parents of the people :-) they serve

My ex was a teacher. Her quip was that teaching was a life of genteel poverty.

cliff

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Author: thebigduece One star, 50 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 12894 of 60190
Subject: Re: I'm Voting Republican Date: 6/21/2008 11:29 PM
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>>> I also think that many teachers are underpaid. <<

IMO, they are not underpaid. I would agree that they make less relative to many other careers requiring the same level of education and experience, but that's not the same as saying they are underpaid.>

A few years back there was a big push here in Oklahoma to adjust teacher's pay and to consolidate school districts. Oklahoma had over 600 districts.
Well anyway, a few of my fellow engineers started thinking about this and added up all of the time off and the number of classes taught. We came up with teachers actually working 5/8 of the day that we were working. Adjusting our salary to 5/8 proved to us that we and teachers where paid the same.

Then the issue came up about homework papers that teachers had to take home each night and grade. That didn't fly either because we each had an attache case that we were taking work home also. So over all, teachers are paid accordingly to other professions.

I understand the hardship they have supporting a family on what they make. My remedy would be raise their pay to other professional levels but make the work the same schedules that other professionals do.

Oh yeah, that consolidation effort, we now have just under 600 districts. I believe in Oklahoma most education money ends up in overhead with administrators and staff not in the teacher's pocket.

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Author: cliff666 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 12896 of 60190
Subject: Re: I'm Voting Republican Date: 6/22/2008 1:29 AM
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TheBigDeuce: Well anyway, a few of my fellow engineers started thinking about this and added up all of the time off and the number of classes taught. We came up with teachers actually working 5/8 of the day that we were working. Adjusting our salary to 5/8 proved to us that we and teachers where paid the same.

Then the issue came up about homework papers that teachers had to take home each night and grade. That didn't fly either because we each had an attache case that we were taking work home also. So over all, teachers are paid accordingly to other professions.

Can't go along with your analysis. I was married to a teacher, and yes, she had homework to grade, PTA meetings to attend, parent-teacher confreences, teacher's meetings, and mandatory "in-service" education credits to do (Meaning regular course-work to stay current with the evolving latest concepts. Now it was sight reading, now phonics. Now it was rote memorization of arithmetic, now it was New Math.) This course work often was done in the summer, so the apparent short work year really wasn't. I think she matched me on an hour for hour basis (Me? Engineer.) She also bought some of her own teaching material because the school didn't. She also endured some abuse from parents and administration if little Johnny didn't like something she said or did. I don't envy them having 25-30 kids to try to control and teach.

She eventually quit because of the working conditions, weak administration, and parents who thought their precious darling was simply being misunderstood. But she had some amusing stories to tell.

cliff
... Oh, yes, I took my brief case home every night, and back to work every morning. Rarely opened at night.

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Author: thebigduece One star, 50 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 12897 of 60190
Subject: Re: I'm Voting Republican Date: 6/22/2008 6:50 AM
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<cliff
... Oh, yes, I took my brief case home every night, and back to work every morning. Rarely opened at night. >

I can't speak for my fellow engineers. but I always had at least 2-3 hours of work at home. I assume they also had some time at home since none of them were let go for poor efficiency. I'm not trying to slam teachers here just trying to point out what I discovered. I had teachers in my family and know some of them do put in extra class time, but some don't. I had one uncle who taught history for 10 yours in Jr. high. He had the same set of test year after year and he never took extra classes to stay current. After all history is the past and doesn't change, his words not mine. I am all for raising teacher pay, but that has to go with year around school. I have heard some teachers say the best things about teaching is June, July and August.

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Author: ziggy29 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 12898 of 60190
Subject: Re: I'm Voting Republican Date: 6/22/2008 8:57 AM
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>> I have heard some teachers say the best things about teaching is June, July and August. <<

Until their first pension check arrives, anyway.

#29

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Author: cliff666 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 12905 of 60190
Subject: Re: I'm Voting Republican Date: 6/22/2008 1:17 PM
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My ex referred to teaching as a life of genteel poverty.

cliff

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