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Author: Itsmutualman Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 19348  
Subject: In danger of running out of money? Date: 7/23/2010 4:16 PM
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My friend is retired. She has money in several accounts. $350,000 is in a trust. 8% is taken from that each year. There is also $290,000 in an account from which she gets about 5%. She has an IRA with $160,000. The money in these accounts are in mutual funds and a bit in cash. She also has $100,000 in a savings account. I don’t think she really touches the IRA or savings.

I am concerned since 8% is being taken from the trust. I know around 4% is recommended. I worry she’ll run out of money, but I don’t know how to figure it since her money is broken up into different accounts.
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Author: CountUptoten Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 16657 of 19348
Subject: Re: In danger of running out of money? Date: 7/23/2010 4:31 PM
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It seems your friend has about $900000 in assets, and she is taking about $42500 our each year. That's 4.7%. This is a little high, but who knows?

Does she have other income? Social Security? Pension? Annuity?

Hope this helps.

Count Uptoten

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Author: Itsmutualman Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 16658 of 19348
Subject: Re: In danger of running out of money? Date: 7/23/2010 4:33 PM
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She does get social security. I think that's the only other source of income she has.

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Author: CountUptoten Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 16659 of 19348
Subject: Re: In danger of running out of money? Date: 7/23/2010 4:39 PM
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If one computes the present worth of her social security, I would bet she is around the 4% level. She should try to save some of the money she is taking, maybe in a savings account. (She may already be doing that.) SS should easily put her well above $50,000 a year income.

Count Uptoten

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Author: fleg9bo Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 16660 of 19348
Subject: Re: In danger of running out of money? Date: 7/23/2010 4:46 PM
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My friend is retired. She has money in several accounts. $350,000 is in a trust. 8% is taken from that each year. There is also $290,000 in an account from which she gets about 5%. She has an IRA with $160,000. The money in these accounts are in mutual funds and a bit in cash. She also has $100,000 in a savings account. I don’t think she really touches the IRA or savings.

I am concerned since 8% is being taken from the trust. I know around 4% is recommended. I worry she’ll run out of money, but I don’t know how to figure it since her money is broken up into different accounts.


Her total portfolio, including the savings account, is $900,000. The 8% from the trust plus the 5% from the other account add up to $42,500. That's about 4.7% of her total portfolio.

So it's above the accepted (by many) 4% but not outrageously high. How old is she? If her life expectancy is 10 or 15 years, this may be a reasonable withdrawl. If she plans to live another 35 years, not so much. I'm 62 and I would be nervous taking 4.7%. If I were 75, I'd eat, drink and be merry.

Another consideration, if you go by the "4% is safe" rule, is what her allocation is. The rule has worked in the past if one is in the neighborhood of a 70% S&P500 equivalent with the rest in something equivalent to Treasuries. If the trust and the other accounts are too conservative, that increases the risk of underperformance.

And it's likely the trust fees are a drag, perhaps making her real withdrawl closer to 9 or 10% with the trust keeping the difference.


--fleg

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Author: Itsmutualman Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 16661 of 19348
Subject: Re: In danger of running out of money? Date: 7/23/2010 4:55 PM
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I think she gets about $22,000 in social security. So her yearly income is what she gets from her trust and the other account?

She should try to save to lower her taxes? I don't know if she will save her money. She says she can't get by on less.

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Author: CountUptoten Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 16662 of 19348
Subject: Re: In danger of running out of money? Date: 7/23/2010 5:00 PM
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She should try to save to lower her taxes? I don't know if she will save her money. She says she can't get by on less.

She can't get by on less than $65,000 a year? Is she making a large mortgage payment? Have a gambling/drinking habit? She isn't trying very hard, I think.

Count Uptoten

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Author: 0x6a74 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 16663 of 19348
Subject: Re: In danger of running out of money? Date: 7/23/2010 5:02 PM
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She can't get by on less than $65,000 a year? Is she making a large mortgage payment? Have a gambling/drinking habit? She isn't trying very hard, I think.


...really.

i don't try at all ..and have large Medicals ..and get by on about 40k



(>:

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Author: Itsmutualman Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 16664 of 19348
Subject: Re: In danger of running out of money? Date: 7/23/2010 5:18 PM
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She's older than you, fleg. I suppose her life expectancy is closer to 10-15 years, rather than 35 years.

fleg wrote: "Another consideration, if you go by the "4% is safe" rule, is what her allocation is. The rule has worked in the past if one is in the neighborhood of a 70% S&P500 equivalent with the rest in something equivalent to Treasuries. If the trust and the other accounts are too conservative, that increases the risk of underperformance".

Of the $900,000, 48% is stock funds, 35% bond funds, 18% cash (money market, savings). Perhaps she should put some of the $100,000 in the savings account into stocks and bonds?

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Author: temsike Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 16665 of 19348
Subject: Re: In danger of running out of money? Date: 7/23/2010 7:38 PM
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When I retire, hopefully in 30 months, I'm going to live on a 3% annual withdrawal rate. I use a very cheap portfolio of indexed ETFs.

1% of assets will go to total expenses. TER = ER+HC+Taxes (HC = hidden costs which are commissions, bid/ask spreads, and impact costs).

As hard as I try, I cannot get total costs below 0.95% of assets. I round total expenses to 1%.

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Author: Howie52 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 16666 of 19348
Subject: Re: In danger of running out of money? Date: 7/23/2010 8:28 PM
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"She's older than you, fleg. I suppose her life expectancy is closer to 10-15 years, rather than 35 years.

fleg wrote: "Another consideration, if you go by the "4% is safe" rule, is what her allocation is. The rule has worked in the past if one is in the neighborhood of a 70% S&P500 equivalent with the rest in something equivalent to Treasuries. If the trust and the other accounts are too conservative, that increases the risk of underperformance".

Of the $900,000, 48% is stock funds, 35% bond funds, 18% cash (money market, savings). Perhaps she should put some of the $100,000 in the savings account into stocks and bonds? "

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

If she has $900000 in assets and there is any growth above
inflation with 15 years to go - she can consume $60000/year
on the button.

If anything her portfolio may have too much risk - 35% in
bond funds is not the same as 35% in bonds. The bond funds
can lose value - the bonds should be less likely to lose
unless they are GM bonds or equivalent.

Howie52
Her risks are possibly related to long-term care issues and such,
I would think. The $60000 per year value might be a tad lean
if she had to go in for a 15 year stint in a nursing home.

Difficult to say about folks without knowing their situation.
Also, some folks can live on their own for less than others -
and it can be hard to cut back some things more than others.
She can probably describe her needs and wants better than we could
speculate.

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Author: Davem105 Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 16667 of 19348
Subject: Re: In danger of running out of money? Date: 7/23/2010 10:50 PM
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She should try to save to lower her taxes? I don't know if she will save her money. She says she can't get by on less.

Well I don't think she has a problem given all of what you say. Either she can spend it or she can give it to Obama so he can spend it. I know which way I'd rather see it go.

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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 16668 of 19348
Subject: Re: In danger of running out of money? Date: 7/24/2010 1:27 AM
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How old is she?

She appears to have about $800,000 in assets you know about. What sort of Social Security benefit might she collect and when?


Exhausting some assets isn't necessarily a disaster. Spending them down over her remaining lifetime should be expected.

She should be investigating how much she can expect to spend per year over her remaining lifetime and factor in the effects of Social Security as well.



Seattle Pioneer

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Author: Itsmutualman Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 16669 of 19348
Subject: Re: In danger of running out of money? Date: 7/24/2010 9:18 AM
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Howie52 wrote: "If she has $900000 in assets and there is any growth above
inflation with 15 years to go - she can consume $60000/year
on the button".

How did you calculate that?

Howie 52 wrote: "If anything her portfolio may have too much risk - 35% in
bond funds is not the same as 35% in bonds. The bond funds
can lose value - the bonds should be less likely to lose
unless they are GM bonds or equivalent".

I talked to her bank about bonds rather than bond funds. They gave some reason why buying bonds right now might not be a good idea. I forget what they said.

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Author: Itsmutualman Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 16670 of 19348
Subject: Re: In danger of running out of money? Date: 7/24/2010 9:23 AM
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She's around 80. She's retired, with about $22,000 Social Security.

She did some kind of budget around a year ago. I don't know how good it was. She's not good with numbers. I don't know how to help her. I find it difficult to calculate a budget.

Thanks to everyone for their advice.

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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 16671 of 19348
Subject: Re: In danger of running out of money? Date: 7/24/2010 11:12 AM
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<<She's around 80. She's retired, with about $22,000 Social Security. >>
v



Shucks, she's doing fine, in my estimation.



Seattle Pioneer

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Author: Crosenfield Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 16672 of 19348
Subject: Re: In danger of running out of money? Date: 7/24/2010 1:19 PM
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"I talked to her bank about bonds rather than bond funds. They gave some reason why buying bonds right now might not be a good idea. I forget what they said. "

I take it the bank has bond funds to sell?

Bonds mature. Bond funds, most of them, never do. As bonds in the fund mature, the manger buys more bonds with the proceeds.

Interest rates are at historical lows. They WILL go up; we do not know exactly when. When they do, the net asset value of bond funds WILL go down.

If she buys relatively short term bonds, they will mature at face value. If she will avoid paying a premium for them, and the issuing entity does not go bankrupt, she WILL get full face value, and can then invest again in a new bond, hopefully with a higher coupon.

Right now I wouldn't touch a bond fund on a bet.


Best wishes, Chris

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Author: Howie52 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 16673 of 19348
Subject: Re: In danger of running out of money? Date: 7/24/2010 1:37 PM
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"Howie52 wrote: "If she has $900000 in assets and there is any growth above
inflation with 15 years to go - she can consume $60000/year
on the button".

How did you calculate that?"

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

$900000. divided by 15 years equals $60000.
As long as the return exceeds inflation - she is good.

Howie52

"I talked to her bank about bonds rather than bond funds. They gave some reason why buying bonds right now might not be a good idea. I forget what they said. "

I'd suggest that you ask about downside risk of bond mutual funds -
given an environment where interests rates are not likely to decrease
but have a strong potential to rise. A bond will return the principal.
A mutual fund of any kind will not necessarily do so.

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Author: stockmover Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 16675 of 19348
Subject: Re: In danger of running out of money? Date: 7/24/2010 8:49 PM
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Hi Iman

After reading this entire thread, IMHO with $900,000 in liquid assets and $22K/yr in SSA benefits at 80 years of age, her financial position would be envied many folks in the USA. According to the SSA 2006 Actuarial Life Tables http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/STATS/table4c6.html she has an estimated life expectancy of around 90+ years of age. It may be a bit higher today as new data is released. But in any case, I think most everyone reaches a point in their life when they think "I should be concerned about how to enjoy the money I have accumulated over the years ... rather than worry if I will outlive my savings."


I do know that on a personal basis there have been many times when I've said to myself .... darn I should bought this or that ... or done this or that when I could have really enjoyed it (and I am only 66 and not wealthy) ....

Life changes on a dime and then it just may be too late.

Just sayin'

Best Regards,

Richard

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Author: dbphd Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 16676 of 19348
Subject: Re: In danger of running out of money? Date: 7/25/2010 12:23 PM
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Richard,

I think your point is valid, but I can tell you my mother, at 97, worries about running out of money. She and my dad were the typical millionaire next door types, and the habit of pinching money is not easily broken. The downturn in the market didn't help either. I wouldn't say she obsesses about it. but she does mention it from time to time.

db

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Author: stockmover Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 16677 of 19348
Subject: Re: In danger of running out of money? Date: 7/25/2010 4:05 PM
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Hi db

but I can tell you my mother, at 97, worries about running out of money.

That's understandable because she, like many others, "lived" through the Great Depression and just like my Mom who is 93 ... it's not something easy to forget. Then of course there are health care issues and all the what if's that can drive one insane with the endless possibilities. So I do realize it's not an easy thing to do. Thanks for your feedback.

just sayin'

Richard

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Author: Itsmutualman Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 16678 of 19348
Subject: Re: In danger of running out of money? Date: 7/25/2010 11:03 PM
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Thanks, Richard.

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Author: stockmover Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 16679 of 19348
Subject: Re: In danger of running out of money? Date: 7/25/2010 11:37 PM
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You are very welcome Iman. I hope I was able to shed a different light and perspective on this topic.

Good luck and Best Wishes to you and your friend.

Sincerely,

Richard

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Author: RetiredVermonter Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 16680 of 19348
Subject: Re: In danger of running out of money? Date: 7/26/2010 7:20 AM
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She's 80?

With $22,000/year Social Security income?

And she has $800,000 or more?

Ye gods! Who cares whether she takes 4 percent or 8 percent a year? 4 percent of $800,000 is $32,000/year on top of the SS income. She MUST have some deductibles, but even with the standard deductions, she should have NO worries!

Unless she spends like a drunken sailor -- or has leeches for relatives and/or so-called "advisors" and friends (that happens!) -- she should stop worrying. Totally.

Unbelievable. We all should have such "worries".

Vermonter

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Author: dbphd Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 16681 of 19348
Subject: Re: In danger of running out of money? Date: 7/26/2010 3:58 PM
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Vermonter,

Very believable. At 80 there is ample opportunity for a major health event that entails expensive care. My 97 year old mother is in an independent living apartment, but the complex has two other levels, assisted living and something agin to a hospital room with on-call nursing. The latter two levels of care are considerably more expensive. An extended stay in one of the high care levels can burn through funds at an alarming rate.

db

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Author: RetiredVermonter Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 16682 of 19348
Subject: Re: In danger of running out of money? Date: 7/26/2010 4:44 PM
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Richard:

One element in the equation is that a number of elderly are concerned about LEAVING money to family or charity -- not just their own well-being!

Of course, all too often, large sums left behind to "junior" are just later peed away, but the old folks still want to leave it vs enjoying it themselves!

Vermonter

(NOT leaving a lot behind, because we don't HAVE much to start with, and the kids know it!)

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Author: stockmover Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 16683 of 19348
Subject: Re: In danger of running out of money? Date: 7/27/2010 3:41 AM
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Hi RV

One element in the equation is that a number of elderly are concerned about LEAVING money to family or charity -- not just their own well-being!

Yes I did consider that possibility but the focus of the OP was "In danger of running out of money?" So I stand by my original reply ... enjoy it while she can. Tomorrow(s) are never guaranteed.

Best Regards,

Richard

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Author: Follydolly Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 16684 of 19348
Subject: Re: In danger of running out of money? Date: 7/27/2010 12:44 PM
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I may be a bit late to the party here, but here's my take.

The lady has a total of $900,000, taking 4.5% = $40,500 + SS $22,000=$62,500.

Hopefully, her bonds are *not* in bond funds, if so she might want to rethink that which was explained in an earlier post.

She has 48% invested in equities, which I hope are dividend bearing equities which give her income. The amount of income her funds earn has not been explained. Taking $40,500 out of portfolio is fine, but I do think she should be getting some dividend/interest income from the portfolio. Does she need to have $100,000 in cash? It may give her comfort to have it. Comfort is very important.

I am not that much younger and do obsess about market fluctuations and how much I can spend, and I have somewhat more than the subject in question. It has been mentioned that to get a clear picture, one has to consider her situation -housing, medical and family. If she is like me, family and home expenses tend to have "needs". Medical expenses are forever increasing.

As far as comments that she *should* be able to live on $40,000, perhaps her expenses are higher.

If I didn't make sense, keep in mind my age......:)

Birgit

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Author: RetiredVermonter Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 16685 of 19348
Subject: Re: In danger of running out of money? Date: 7/27/2010 2:56 PM
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Follydolly:

I do think she should be getting some dividend/interest income from the portfolio.

Of course she should.

There are a number of equities paying well over what a bank would pay. AT&T (symbol T), for example, pays about 6.4%, last time I looked, and there are many others that pay in the 4 to 6% range or more. One need not invest in "fly-by-night" companies to realize a decent return.

An average return of just 5% on $800,000 = $40,000. When added to $22,000 SS income, she should have more than $60,000/year income. Barring a serious medical condition, I would think that would be a very good income.

Besides, even if she eats into the basic amount somewhat, so what? I say enjoy that money and don't worry about struggling to "leave it to the kids"!

Vermonter

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Author: MichaelRead Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Winner! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 16686 of 19348
Subject: Re: In danger of running out of money? Date: 7/28/2010 12:24 AM
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Besides, even if she eats into the basic amount somewhat, so what? I say enjoy that money and don't worry about struggling to "leave it to the kids"!

Vermonter


Can I vent a little? On subject but personal. There’s an insurance company and a bank who are pitching us to, in the first instance, to establish an annuity and, the second, a trust. In both instances the thrust is we live in gentile poverty while maintaining a direction where our children can have the means to do we can’t do because of the structure of the scheme.

These schemes are essentially similar: invest in an income producing method where, through a slight withdrawal to maintain life at certain minimums on our part (about $60,000 a year) the fund accumulates to a substantial amount as a legacy. And this legacy is our crowning achievement. And both the insurance and bank people smile when they say this as if that’s our whole life experience: leaving a huge pile.

It gets worse. With the insurance plan we can withdraw but only to a certain amount and then there’s a penalty; with bank trust we have to submit to the bank trustees our financial request for their approval (once again, penalties for withdrawal beyond a vertain amount yearly).

My riposte is that at $100,000 a year withdrawal our stash would last 25 years and, besides there’s ‘things can change even for the better’, I would be 97 when we reached the point we wouldn’t have to nickels to rub together

Okay, the beef is they have a stock thingy as if Elly and I were off the production line and now ready for a one-a-year trip to Mazatlan and maybe a flight to see the grandkids. Not noted is both of us spent out previous years using our heads and retirement per se is a matter of age numbers not facility. Elly has written one book (I have three) and she will write another (as shall I).

But what frosts is the premise they have that our retirement years are to be conducted as if what we do is sit around amusing ourselves with whatever retired people do to fill time preparing for death. As I say, a period of ‘did anyone dust Michael today?’

Damnit, I ain’t a dead man walking. I may live whatever years but damned if I am going to go into that night not enjoying the life I live now. And damned if I am going to fall into what I am, by the insurance company and the bank, deciding how I should live.

Vent over.

MichaelR

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Author: Howie52 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 16687 of 19348
Subject: Re: In danger of running out of money? Date: 7/28/2010 1:04 AM
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"Can I vent a little? On subject but personal. There’s an insurance company and a bank who are pitching us to, in the first instance, to establish an annuity and, the second, a trust. In both instances the thrust is we live in gentile poverty while maintaining a direction where our children can have the means to do we can’t do because of the structure of the scheme.

These schemes are essentially similar: invest in an income producing method where, through a slight withdrawal to maintain life at certain minimums on our part (about $60,000 a year) the fund accumulates to a substantial amount as a legacy. And this legacy is our crowning achievement. And both the insurance and bank people smile when they say this as if that’s our whole life experience: leaving a huge pile.

It gets worse. With the insurance plan we can withdraw but only to a certain amount and then there’s a penalty; with bank trust we have to submit to the bank trustees our financial request for their approval (once again, penalties for withdrawal beyond a vertain amount yearly).

My riposte is that at $100,000 a year withdrawal our stash would last 25 years and, besides there’s ‘things can change even for the better’, I would be 97 when we reached the point we wouldn’t have to nickels to rub together

Okay, the beef is they have a stock thingy as if Elly and I were off the production line and now ready for a one-a-year trip to Mazatlan and maybe a flight to see the grandkids. Not noted is both of us spent out previous years using our heads and retirement per se is a matter of age numbers not facility. Elly has written one book (I have three) and she will write another (as shall I).

But what frosts is the premise they have that our retirement years are to be conducted as if what we do is sit around amusing ourselves with whatever retired people do to fill time preparing for death. As I say, a period of ‘did anyone dust Michael today?’

Damnit, I ain’t a dead man walking. I may live whatever years but damned if I am going to go into that night not enjoying the life I live now. And damned if I am going to fall into what I am, by the insurance company and the bank, deciding how I should live.

Vent over.

MichaelR "

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I think a proper response to said banker and insurance agent
would be to say "Stick it!" in a loud voice and recommend
folks not do business with the individuals.

Howie52

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Author: stockmover Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 16688 of 19348
Subject: Re: In danger of running out of money? Date: 7/28/2010 1:40 AM
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Damnit, I ain’t a dead man walking. I may live whatever years but damned if I am going to go into that night not enjoying the life I live now. And damned if I am going to fall into what I am, by the insurance company and the bank, deciding how I should live.

Vent over.

MichaelR

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Excellent vent especially for this thread Michael.
Wishing both of you good health and a long and happy life on your terms !!!

Sincerely,

Rich

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Author: RetiredVermonter Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 16689 of 19348
Subject: Re: In danger of running out of money? Date: 7/28/2010 5:40 AM
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MichaelR:

But what frosts is the premise they have that our retirement years are to be conducted as if what we do is sit around amusing ourselves with whatever retired people do to fill time preparing for death. As I say, a period of ‘did anyone dust Michael today?’

Damnit, I ain’t a dead man walking. I may live whatever years but damned if I am going to go into that night not enjoying the life I live now. And damned if I am going to fall into what I am, by the insurance company and the bank, deciding how I should live.


Good for you!

Yes, that DOES often seem to be the way younger folks (and some of our so-called "advisors") seem to think"! They all assume we "older folks" just sit around, getting "dusted off" (good way to say it!), and doing nothing! We have LIVES, too, dammit! And we also have minds and intelligence, and WE can choose what to do with OUR money, too!

Those annuities offers can all go into the trash, as far as we're concerned! Sorry! We get those pitches, too, but no thanks! I/we will deal with whatever money we have on our own, thank you! (I admit to being a maverick in that regard, having independently managed my/our IRA's for years now...)

Good luck to you and your wife -- and congrats on the books!

Vermonter

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Author: RetiredVermonter Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 16690 of 19348
Subject: Re: In danger of running out of money? Date: 7/28/2010 5:47 AM
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Howie52:

Bravo!

There are too damned many of those bloodsuckers out there eager to "help"!

Help WHOM? Ha!

Sadly, a LOT of people simply do not have the smarts or savvy to handle their money. That's the way it is. But they SHOULD be able to find an HONEST advisor, friendly banker, someone to assist them.

Vermonter

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Author: CountUptoten Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 16691 of 19348
Subject: Re: In danger of running out of money? Date: 7/28/2010 12:39 PM
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Michael: Can I vent a little? On subject but personal. There’s an insurance company and a bank who are pitching us to, in the first instance, to establish an annuity and, the second, a trust. In both instances the thrust is we live in gentile poverty while maintaining a direction where our children can have the means to do we can’t do because of the structure of the scheme.

I can't help but wonder why you are talking to them. Did they capture you and are holding you hostage? Does yout telepnone not have a "hang up" feature?

We have a family trust, which we control. It's mainly to avoid California probate, which can take a sizeable chunk of an estate. We also have a small annuity, which we control, from which we derive a small monthly income.

Count Uptoten

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Author: TurkeyBreath Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 16692 of 19348
Subject: Re: In danger of running out of money? Date: 7/28/2010 6:50 PM
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... find an HONEST advisor...

Fat chance :(

TB

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Author: MichaelRead Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Winner! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 16693 of 19348
Subject: Re: In danger of running out of money? Date: 7/28/2010 10:18 PM
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I can't help but wonder why you are talking to them. Did they capture you and are holding you hostage? Does your telephone not have a "hang up" feature?

We have a family trust, which we control. It's mainly to avoid California probate, which can take a sizeable chunk of an estate. We also have a small annuity, which we control, from which we derive a small monthly income.

Count Uptoten


Cliff, we have substantial holdings in an investment fund that some others are eying as a mother lode ripe to pillage and can be done by treating the owners of that fund as doddering old farts just off the turnip truck not observing it was us who chose the fund that is now somewhat large.

It’s as if they’re circling vultures and we’re crawling across the desert seeking water. The insurance company wants us to collapse the large fund into a package they say will preserve capital yet does so by limiting withdrawals; the bank by having, essentially, a tribunal managing how, where, and what we spend. Meanwhile, the fund we are invested in has a steady return and, importantly, recovered what was lost in the debacle of March 09.

But what galls is the attitude that, having grey hair and a few wrinkles, we need their counseling and that based on we’re old. It horrifies them I, at 72, run a boating company and its attendant costs. I should be ‘retired’ and by that meaning I dodder. For those that don’t know what dodder means: never ever again risk anything and live to an austerity commensurate with being old. Fap!

Tomorrow I could wake up dead and, that happening, I’d be right pissed off I didn’t enjoy today.

MichaelR

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Author: readyteddy Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 16694 of 19348
Subject: Re: In danger of running out of money? Date: 7/29/2010 9:27 AM
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My mother's parents were paranoid about running out of money. When my grandmother died, there was enough money in her purse to pay for her funeral.

Then there's the guy who always wanted a Cadillac. So he worked his butt off and never had any fun and eventually he got the Cadillac. He dropped dead from over work but he loved his Cadillac so much he wanted to be buried in it.

So the car is on the way to the cemetery, and a couple of guys are standing on the curb and one of them says "Look at that car. Man, that's really living!"

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Author: Davem105 Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 16695 of 19348
Subject: Re: In danger of running out of money? Date: 7/29/2010 1:22 PM
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Tomorrow I could wake up dead

Well, um no you couldn't. A. If you wake up tomorrow, you're not dead. B. If you are dead, you won't wake up tomorrow. But having said this I agree with you whole heartedly on your feelings about your fiscal affairs. Same reason why I do not share my fiscal affairs with my daughter.

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