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Author: MarkHiatt Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 11711  
Subject: Interesting & Fun Second Car? Date: 1/30/2001 2:55 PM
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I need some opinions on adding a second car to the family. I want a car for me, one that I can take out on the weekends and wring out a little, one I can play around with a little, show off a little, one that will not explode itself or my bank account.

From time to time, I've looked at various VW GTIs, some old, dead Camaros, Corvettes, Mercedes Benz SLs and Porsches from the 1970s and 1980s and even a DeLorean or two.

I don't need this car. It's just for fun and now and then taking me to work if our "real" car is in the shop or something. I'm just looking for something that's hugely fun and hardly expensive at all. So, what's the best bargain out there, factoring in all of the various expenses like fuel economy, depreciation or collectibility, insurance, parts and service and so on?

-MH-
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Author: TMFMcLaren One star, 50 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1308 of 11711
Subject: Re: Interesting & Fun Second Car? Date: 1/30/2001 3:37 PM
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If you can find one for sale consider the VW Corrado. I owned one new and it was a blast. Great cornering ability and plenty of guts (the car will do 120 easy). Mine was the supercharged 4 and I understand the VR6 is even better. It did get good mileage and had no maintenance other than the normal recommended service. If you like the twisties this is defiantly a car you want to consider.


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Author: TMFTwitty Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1309 of 11711
Subject: Re: Interesting & Fun Second Car? Date: 1/30/2001 3:38 PM
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I'm just looking for something that's hugely fun and hardly expensive at all. So, what's the best bargain out there, factoring in all of the various expenses like fuel economy, depreciation or collectibility, insurance, parts and service and so on?

Only you know what trips your trigger, and there examples of great buys and total junk in every mark you mention. I prefer U.S. iron. Cheapest parts and service is probably going to be the Camero. Old Mustang 5.0s are fun too.

Twit

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Author: ab1stock Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1310 of 11711
Subject: Re: Interesting & Fun Second Car? Date: 1/30/2001 3:51 PM
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If reliabilty, mileage and high fun quotient are what you're looking for, I humbly suggest a '97 or newer Honda Prelude. You wouldn't believe the fun you can have in this thing (as I've detailed extensively on this board in previous posts). Certainly you won't have the torque of a Camaro or Mustang, but the tradeoff is mileage and reliabilty. No engine problems(or any problems, for that matter) from my '97 and it routinely sees 7000 rpm (where the fun is).



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Author: MarkHiatt Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1311 of 11711
Subject: Re: Interesting & Fun Second Car? Date: 1/30/2001 4:21 PM
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If you can find one for sale consider the VW Corrado.

Oooh!

Good choice, that. And the best dealer in town is also a VW store. I wouldn't feel like I was cheating on them, with one of these....

Thanks.

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Author: MarkHiatt Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1312 of 11711
Subject: Re: Interesting & Fun Second Car? Date: 1/30/2001 4:22 PM
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Old Mustang 5.0s are fun too.

Another good choice. We live in an area where there are four or five bloodthirsty Ford dealerships, so we're awash in GT convertibles....

Hmm....

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Author: MarkHiatt Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1313 of 11711
Subject: Re: Interesting & Fun Second Car? Date: 1/30/2001 4:27 PM
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I humbly suggest a '97 or newer Honda Prelude. You wouldn't believe the fun you can have in this thing...

Yes, I would! I was the proud owner of a 1988 CRX Si, the color of Evil. The local Honda-VW dealership is super to work with, and I could definitely see going back to sporty-ish Honda, again.

And don't apologize for the lack of stump-pulling torque. I rarely need to pull stumps, anyway....

And I submit that someone with their foot deep into a VTEC, driving at 9/10ths all day long is having much more fun than someone with 300hp, who only gets into it about 6/10ths, now and then.

Good suggestions, all.

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Author: TMFTwitty Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1314 of 11711
Subject: Re: Interesting & Fun Second Car? Date: 1/30/2001 5:42 PM
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Another good choice. We live in an area where there are four or five bloodthirsty Ford dealerships, so we're awash in GT convertibles....

I enjoyed my 98 GT, and like the 2000 GT even more. It's up to 260 horsies from 225.

Twit

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Author: dripton Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1315 of 11711
Subject: Re: Interesting & Fun Second Car? Date: 1/30/2001 5:55 PM
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I humbly suggest a '97 or newer Honda Prelude. You wouldn't believe the fun you can have in this thing...

Yes, I would! I was the proud owner of a 1988 CRX Si, the color of Evil. The local Honda-VW dealership is super to work with, and I could definitely see going back to sporty-ish Honda, again.

And don't apologize for the lack of stump-pulling torque. I rarely need to pull stumps, anyway....

And I submit that someone with their foot deep into a VTEC, driving at 9/10ths all day long is having much more fun than someone with 300hp, who only gets into it about 6/10ths, now and then.


If you like the Prelude idea, also check out a 1994 Integra GS-R. It's about 3/4 of the way from the CRX to the Prelude, at a fairly reasonable price.

How about an older Miata? They're fun if you don't need grunt or space. The drivetrain is pretty bulletproof. The resale values are more realistic than they used to be, now that they finally redesigned the thing.

How about an E30 3 series? A bit scarier in terms of potential maintenance costs than the above cars, but cheaper to buy and maintain than a P-car.

Speaking of which, the non-turbo 944s from the 80s are a popular second-car choice, especially if there's a track nearby. The lack of "911" in the name takes a few thousand off the asking price, but it's still a real Porsche.

How about an MR2? The first-generation versions are little, cheap, and fun. Like an old Miata with a roof. The second-generation turbo versions are serious little rocket sleds, probably the closest thing to a motorcycle on four wheels.

My choice for a second car if I had money to set ablaze would be a final-generation RX7. Gorgeous car, amazing performance, pitiful reliability. But if the one you buy hasn't eaten its turbo yet, and you only drive it a bit on weekends and treat it nicely, maybe it'll hold up. The Supras and 300ZXs and C4 Corvettes from the same generation are so much more reliable, but they just don't compare in any other way.


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Author: UncleLee Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1316 of 11711
Subject: Re: Interesting & Fun Second Car? Date: 1/30/2001 8:59 PM
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I want a car for me, one that I can take out on the weekends and wring out a little, one I can play around with a little, show off a little...

======================================================

You're the best one to make that decision. If it was me, I'd stay away from all the little front-wheel-drivers that're out there. Some are well made, sure. But remember, fwd was brought about for mainly economical reasons - not performance and handling. And it's lots more fun to lift the inside front wheel rather than the inside rear wheel.

I would look for an older Beemer, maybe a 3.0 CSi coupe with the 5 speed gearbox. Lots of style and class, lovely straight-6 sounds, silky transmission.

JMHO,

Lee

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Author: ab1stock Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1317 of 11711
Subject: Re: Interesting & Fun Second Car? Date: 1/30/2001 9:25 PM
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Some are well made, sure. But remember, fwd was brought about for mainly economical reasons - not performance and handling.

UncleLee, have you driven one? I mean on the street where the envelope is a lot tighter and the real benefits of RWD that are obvious on the track are not near as critical.

ab

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Author: UncleLee Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1318 of 11711
Subject: Re: Interesting & Fun Second Car? Date: 1/30/2001 9:54 PM
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UncleLee, have you driven one?

=====================================================

I must admit, ab, my last foray with fwd was in 1967 with a friend's Morris Cooper 1275 S. Lots of fun, won its class in autocrosses, three wheels mostly.

I've driven some of the contemporary fwds - Acura 3.2TL, Audi A6 - but remain old fashioned enough to prefer rwd.

Nothing against the streetable fwds. Some are ok. Most are cheap econoboxes.

JMHO.

Lee


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Author: ab1stock Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1319 of 11711
Subject: Re: Interesting & Fun Second Car? Date: 1/31/2001 5:27 AM
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I've driven some of the contemporary fwds - Acura 3.2TL, Audi A6 - but remain old fashioned enough to prefer rwd.

Nothing against the streetable fwds. Some are ok. Most are cheap econoboxes.


You don't have to be old-fashioned to prefer RWD as I do myself, yet I'm in my 30's. I drove 60's Mustangs for a number of years after high school and agree that RWD is overall more fun. That said, I couldn't have imagined how well-balanced a FWD could be until I got my Prelude. At the limit there is almost no understeer as you can feel the rear end lighten up - it really is a beautifully tuned FWD suspension - you can easily transition. Of course, you can't steer with the throttle like you can a RWD which makes for sometimes slower corner exit speeds.

Alas, it appears I will be parting with my old friend the Prelude as I've nailed down a decent deal on a Honda S2000: RWD, 6-speed, 120hp/liter, fantastic brakes, etc. If I'm absent from the board
it's because I'm out driving in the mountains neaar my home.

: )

ab


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Author: MarkHiatt Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1320 of 11711
Subject: Re: Interesting & Fun Second Car? Date: 1/31/2001 7:45 AM
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The nearest Acura dealer is about fifty miles away, in Omaha. Same with Porsche. Even though the local Honda store works on Acuras, most of the ones we get around here are pretty ragged, as are nearly all of the Porsches, especially the water-cooled versions.

I wish I could fit into a Miata. If I knew that nobody would ever watch me get into or out of the car, that would be worth serious consideration.

I'm not a fan of Mister Two, except for the few years there in the middle, when it looked like a Ferrari. We had a pretty aggressive Mazda dealer for a while and there are a couple of 944-esque RX7s running around, including a (still) stunning triple-black convertible. I don't know anything about them, any more. I drove a couple of the original series RX7s, back in the late 1970s.

Lots to think about, here. Thanks, everyone.

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Author: MarkHiatt Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1321 of 11711
Subject: Re: Interesting & Fun Second Car? Date: 1/31/2001 7:49 AM
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I would look for an older Beemer...

Hmm... I hadn't considered this, for some reason. How much 3-series BMW can a guy buy with $5000-$7500? And how good a car would that really be?

We used to have a pretty aggressive BMW dealership here. They were also the Jaguar and Mazda and Mercedes Benz store. So we do have some good examples running around, but I've never really looked at them. Especially the 3-series cars, which have looked like Japanese econoboxes for so many years, are almost "invisible" to me. I wonder if they're that way to the cops, too, if I get a little too enthusiastic while exercising mine?

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Author: Raggmopp Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1322 of 11711
Subject: Re: Interesting & Fun Second Car? Date: 1/31/2001 8:31 AM
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Most are cheap econoboxes.
===*===

Then you've been driving the wrong ones. It's like if I was to say all Camaros and Mustangs were slow, cheap, girly cars after only driving the 6 cylinder versions.

Raggmopp



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Author: dirkn Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1323 of 11711
Subject: Re: Interesting & Fun Second Car? Date: 1/31/2001 1:12 PM
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I think if you looked at the actual sales numbers, you would find that "most are cheap econoboxes". Sure there are some good FWD cars out there but they've already got one strike against them just BECAUSE they are FWD.

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Author: Raggmopp Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1324 of 11711
Subject: Re: Interesting & Fun Second Car? Date: 1/31/2001 1:25 PM
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I think if you looked at the actual sales numbers, you would find that "most are cheap econoboxes".
===*===

What does the former have to do with the latter? To which sales numbers are you referring?

Raggmopp

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Author: dripton Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1325 of 11711
Subject: Re: Interesting & Fun Second Car? Date: 1/31/2001 2:22 PM
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Hmm... I hadn't considered this, for some reason. How much 3-series BMW can a guy buy with $5000-$7500? And how good a car would that really be?

Take a look at the classifieds on www.bmwcca.org to get an idea. Actually, those prices are higher than average, but the cars are probably in better shape than average too.

You could get a pretty nice E30 325i from 1990 or thereabouts for that price. Or a somewhat nicer/newer 318i. The M3 and ix have held their value very well; the others are sometimes bargains.

They're not as cheap to maintain as a Civic, but not as ridiculous as a Porsche either. They're basically solid, reasonably reliable cars. (With the possible exception of the M3 and convertible.)

So we do have some good examples running around, but I've never really looked at them. Especially the 3-series cars, which have looked like Japanese econoboxes for so many years, are almost "invisible" to me.

They do blend in. They're more fun than most Japanese econoboxes.

I wonder if they're that way to the cops, too, if I get a little too enthusiastic while exercising mine?

I've been driving an E36 M3 four-door for about a year, and I haven't been pulled over yet. Excuse me while I go knock on some wood.


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Author: TMFMcLaren One star, 50 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1326 of 11711
Subject: Re: Interesting & Fun Second Car? Date: 1/31/2001 2:48 PM
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Another car you may consider would be a Porsche 914/6. They can be had for a reasonable price, are easy to work on and many of the parts are VW so they can be cheaper then traditional Porsche parts.

These cars are very quick, handle great and with the top off are a lot of fun. The later cars are better (74 or later) as they changed the transmission linkage to a much more reliable system. Check www.hemmings.com for some ideas on price and such.

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Author: dirkn Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1327 of 11711
Subject: Re: Interesting & Fun Second Car? Date: 1/31/2001 3:42 PM
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"What does the former have to do with the latter? To which sales numbers are you referring?"

I'm talking about sales volume, the actual number of FWD cars sold. If you look at that total volume of cars, I think you will find that most of them are just basic transportation, or "cheap econoboxes" which was the original statement.

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Author: Raggmopp Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1328 of 11711
Subject: Re: Interesting & Fun Second Car? Date: 1/31/2001 3:50 PM
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are just basic transportation, or "cheap econoboxes"
===*===

Well the Camry and the Accord are pretty much basic transportation but I don't think the term "cheap econoboxes" applies. To me that term would be something from Hyundai, entry level big 3 four door etc.

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Author: dirkn Two stars, 250 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1329 of 11711
Subject: Re: Interesting & Fun Second Car? Date: 1/31/2001 9:49 PM
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I'm not sure why we're arguing (or if we're arguing). No, the Camry and the Accord are not "cheap". But, they are definitely not on the top of most folks wish lists.

There is a reason why all of the most desirable cars in the world are either RWD or AWD.

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Author: Raggmopp Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1330 of 11711
Subject: Re: Interesting & Fun Second Car? Date: 1/31/2001 10:04 PM
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But, they are definitely not on the top of most folks wish lists.
===*===

Depends on what you want yer car to do for you. Make a statement or get you to where you are going in comfort. A 427 side oiler Cobra is a hell of a machine but not so hot in traffic on a daily basis. Actually it's hotter'n hell in traffic on a daily basis, the tunnel will flat cook yer leg.

Raggmopp
Not arguing.



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