Message Font: Serif | Sans-Serif
 
UnThreaded | Threaded | Whole Thread (8) | Ignore Thread Prev Thread | Next Thread
Author: KenTreece Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 19224  
Subject: Investment manager Date: 6/14/2001 8:52 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
I'm wondering what a typical fee might be for an investment manager firm? I'm being solicited by a firm for 1.25% (for investments over $500K) and 1.50% for portfolio < $500K. But someone told me that .75 to 1.0% is more typical for such a firm? I'm sure they must range all over the place but wondered if someone might be willing to share with me on this subject.
Thanks
Print the post Back To Top
Author: intercst Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 6908 of 19224
Subject: Re: Investment manager Date: 6/14/2001 9:21 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 3
KenTreece asks,

I'm wondering what a typical fee might be for an investment manager firm? I'm being solicited by a firm for 1.25% (for investments over $500K) and 1.50% for portfolio < $500K. But someone told me that .75 to 1.0% is more typical for such a firm? I'm sure they must range all over the place but wondered if someone might be willing to share with me on this subject.
Thanks


I've seen fees from 0.50% to 3.00% of assets. The problem is that at least 80% of professional investment managers under perform the S&P500. There is a great chance you'll be paying extra to do worse.

intercst

Print the post Back To Top
Author: galeno Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 6910 of 19224
Subject: Re: Investment manager Date: 6/14/2001 11:05 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 6
I agree with intercst. Remember, this 1.25 to 1.5% fee DOES NOT include the manager's transaction fees for your account (commissions and spreads) that adds another layer of costs to your portfolio. Let's say he's a good manager and doesn't churn your account. We'll add another 1% to the costs. Thus, your portfolio costs will be somewhere from 2.25% to 2.5%. Intercst's costs are less than 0.1% of assets. My costs are about 0.6% of assets because I trade more often than intercst does. From now on, we will call portfolio costs "TER" (total expense ratio).

Since the 100% safe withdrawal rate for 30 years of retirement from a 25% fixed income / 75% stock portfolio is 4%, that means that you must live from an annual withdrawal rate of 1.5% to 1.75%. I.e. if you have a $1M liquid portfolio, you'd better not withdraw more than $15K to $17.5K per year for your living expenses! Essentially, you and your money manager will split your annual retirement income 50/50!! <VBG>

Since less than 90% of money managers and mutual funds beat the S&P500 index over any 10 year rolling period (intercst is being very generous when he says 80% but he's talking 3 to 5 year rolling periods), I think the answer is obvious. Buy and hold a S&P500 index fund or a "Total Market Index Fund". Both of these type of index funds have TERs of 0.12% to 0.2%. That's less than 1/10th of what you'll pay this investment manager and you'll be more than 90% certain of beating his performance over every 10 year period.

Your best bet is to check out: http://www.vanguard.com and buy either VFINX (TER=0.18%) OR VTSMX (TER=0.2%). If you have over $250K to invest, you qualify for their even lower cost Admiral shares which would be symbols VFIAX (TER=0.12%) OR VTSAX (TER=0.15%).

FYI, intercst retired 7 years ago at age 38. I retired 6 years ago at age 38. We both live from our FI/Stock portfolios and try to keep our TERs as low as possible. We both like to minimize our taxes also. We both have MBAs. We both think the present investment industry's money managers and managed mutual funds are dinasaurs and rip-off artists. We mainly hang out at "The Early Retirement Homepage Board" on TMF.

Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Print the post Back To Top
Author: fooldaveonce One star, 50 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 6914 of 19224
Subject: Re: Investment manager Date: 6/14/2001 7:13 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
For what it's worth --
I was told by a financial advisor with AMEX that the money managers he would recommend charge a flat rate of 3% of the funds under control if they total $100,000 or less. That fee includes expenses of buying and selling stock.
After $100,000, he told me, the fee is "negotiable."
I quoted the Fool to the advisor, "No one cares as much about my money as I do."

DaveJ

Print the post Back To Top
Author: galeno Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 6916 of 19224
Subject: Re: Investment manager Date: 6/14/2001 10:39 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 2
fooldaveonce wrote:
I was told by a financial advisor with AMEX that the money managers he would recommend charge a flat rate of 3% of the funds under control if they total $100,000 or less. That fee includes expenses of buying and selling stock. After $100,000, he told me, the fee is "negotiable." I quoted the Fool to the advisor, "No one cares as much about my money as I do."

AMEX financial advisors will charge you 3% of assets NOT COUNTING portfolio transaction costs of 1%. OK, the "advisors" will nail your portfolio for 4% of assets per year.

4% is my annual withdrawal rate from my 25%FI/75%Stock portfolio. In reality, my annual withdrawal rate is 3% of assets but my portfolio costs (commissions, spreads, and taxes) are around 1% of assets. 3+1=4.

So, if you have an AMEX financial advisor, you'd better not retire even if your net worth is $50M. It would be sad if it weren't so funny!!

It makes index fund investing ever more attractive doesn't it?

Print the post Back To Top
Author: intercst Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 6917 of 19224
Subject: Re: Investment manager Date: 6/14/2001 10:46 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
galeno writes,

<<<<<fooldaveonce wrote:
I was told by a financial advisor with AMEX that the money managers he would recommend charge a flat rate of 3% of the funds under control if they total $100,000 or less. That fee includes expenses of buying and selling stock. After $100,000, he told me, the fee is "negotiable." I quoted the Fool to the advisor, "No one cares as much about my money as I do.">>>>>

AMEX financial advisors will charge you 3% of assets NOT COUNTING portfolio transaction costs of 1%. OK, the "advisors" will nail your portfolio for 4% of assets per year.

4% is my annual withdrawal rate from my 25%FI/75%Stock portfolio. In reality, my annual withdrawal rate is 3% of assets but my portfolio costs (commissions, spreads, and taxes) are around 1% of assets. 3+1=4.

So, if you have an AMEX financial advisor, you'd better not retire even if your net worth is $50M. It would be sad if it weren't so funny!!


I talked to an AMEX advisor when I was about age 22 just to see what kind of sales BS they used.

I asked the guy, "Is there a load on these funds?"

AMEX advisor, "What's a load?"

Like galeno said, "It would be sad if it weren't so funny" <LOL>

intercst


Print the post Back To Top
Author: peppermintpatty Three stars, 500 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 6918 of 19224
Subject: Re: Investment manager Date: 6/14/2001 11:09 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
<<I talked to an AMEX advisor when I was about age 22 just to see what kind of sales BS they used.

I asked the guy, "Is there a load on these funds?"

AMEX advisor, "What's a load?">>

intercst:

I'm sure they're not all that numb...

PP


Print the post Back To Top
Author: intercst Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 6919 of 19224
Subject: Re: Investment manager Date: 6/15/2001 12:08 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
peppermintpatty writes,

<<<intercst: I talked to an AMEX advisor when I was about age 22 just to see what kind of sales BS they used.

I asked the guy, "Is there a load on these funds?"

AMEX advisor, "What's a load?">>>>>

intercst:

I'm sure they're not all that numb.


I'm sure that guy wasn't that "numb". He was just hoping I didn't know what a "load" was. <grin>

intercst

Print the post Back To Top
UnThreaded | Threaded | Whole Thread (8) | Ignore Thread Prev Thread | Next Thread
Advertisement