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Author: tjscott0 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 736444  
Subject: Iraq 10 Years After Date: 3/20/2013 9:35 AM
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This OP-ED is by Pat Buchanan a noted conservative of a libertarian bent in regard to foreign adventures. I post this not as an attack on conservatives, because Duyba was no conservative, but as an attack on the so called conservative party that drove our country into the ditch. I certainly agree that Obama has not only kept us in the ditch but mired our economy deeper in the ditch. Until fiscal conseratives regain control of the party either via tea party candidates or others of the same strip we are doomed to progression to bankruptcy just at a slower pace.

http://townhall.com/columnists/patbuchanan/2013/03/19/was-ir...

Of the three goals of the war, none was achieved. No weapon of mass destruction was found. While Saddam and his sons paid for their sins, they had had nothing at all to do with 9/11. Nothing. That had all been mendacious propaganda.

Where there had been no al-Qaida in Iraq while Saddam ruled, al-Qaida is crawling all over Iraq now. Where Iraq had been an Arab Sunni bulwark confronting Iran in 2003, a decade later, Iraq is tilting away from the Sunni camp toward the Shia crescent of Iran and Hezbollah.

What was the cost in blood and treasure of our Mesopotamian misadventure? Four thousand five hundred U.S. dead, 35,000 wounded and this summary of war costs from Friday's Wall Street Journal:

"The decade-long (Iraq) effort cost $1.7 trillion, according to a study ... by the Watson Institute for International Studies at Brown University. Fighting over the past 10 years has killed 134,000 Iraqi civilians ... . Meanwhile, the nearly $500 billion in unpaid benefits to U.S. veterans of the Iraq war could balloon to $6 trillion" over the next 40 years.

Iraq made a major contribution to the bankrupting of America.

As for those 134,000 Iraqi civilian dead, that translates into 500,000 Iraqi widows and orphans. What must they think of us?

According to the latest Gallup poll, by 2-to-1, Iraqis believe they are more secure -- now that the Americans are gone from their country.


I know the bolded portion will draw comments like "Look how much more Obama has added to the national debt." Well if we had paid for the two wars via taxation or not even gone into Iraq; that would have removed a major contributor to our economic downfall. And then perhaps we wouldn't have gotten Obama in office. Bush like LBJ cut taxes and continued to spend on "Guns & Butter" & printing of money. We have avoided the double digit inflation via QE buying of treasuries. Surely that musical chair dance must end sometime? Or do we have a perpetual QE policy?

I just know we need to end electing spendthrifts to office.
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Author: Colovion Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 675307 of 736444
Subject: Re: Iraq 10 Years After Date: 3/20/2013 9:59 AM
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While Saddam and his sons paid for their sins, they had had nothing at all to do with 9/11. Nothing. That had all been mendacious propaganda.

How is it, that ten years after the fact, people still don't understand the point that was being made in regards to Iraq and 9/11? The point wasn't that Saddam was at all involved in 9/11, the Bush Administration flat out said they weren't (really, look at what they actually said!) but rather that the 9/11 attack showed that dedicated enemies even half-a-world-away can still be very dangerous to us here at home.

Was Saddam an enemy? Nobody can doubt that. Was he dangerous? Yes, to his own people and us. Was he crazy enough to try to pull a stunt like 9/11 on us? Yes. Did he have the ability to do so. Absolutely, he had more ability than Al Qaeda had, and Al Qaeda did it successfully.

I still don't have any problems with going to war in Iraq, to this day I still believe it was the right decision at the time. Did it turn out as well as hoped? No, but I'd say it wasn't as bad as some predicted. I remember N-number saying that tens of thousands of US troops would die. He was of by only 90% or so.

Was it a necessary war? Hell, Winston Churchill called WWII "unnecessary", going by that measure then, sure Iraq was unnecessary, as was every war we fought after the Revolutionary War (with the possible exception of the Civil War). But that's a different question than whether it was the right thing to do. IMHO, it was, and as such was worth the cost.

I'm not opposed to taking military action against Iran and/or North Korea (the other two countries Bush listed as the "Axis of Evil"), they're still in that same camp the way I see it. The lessons we learned in Iraq would serve us very well should we have to engage either of those countries.

That being said... we do still have too many troops in too many countries around the world doing nothing more than subsidizing the defense budgets of socialist regimes (especially in Europe). We have a bad habit of sticking around in places decades after they've ceased to be hot spots that need our presence there. Korea and the Middle East are still hot spots, Europe is not, at all. We need to better prioritize.

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Author: 2828 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 675308 of 736444
Subject: Re: Iraq 10 Years After Date: 3/20/2013 10:37 AM
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I have no doubt that if a democrat were in power when 9/11 happened we would've abandoned the no-fly-zone containment and gone to full hostilities with Iraq and today it would be called a "good war".

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Author: isawbones Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 675314 of 736444
Subject: Re: Iraq 10 Years After Date: 3/20/2013 11:19 AM
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I think the take home message is that democracy is a very fragile plant that needs the right soil and growing conditions to survive.

These conditions are rarely found in the middle east.

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Author: 2828 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 675317 of 736444
Subject: Re: Iraq 10 Years After Date: 3/20/2013 11:24 AM
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I think the take home message is that democracy is a very fragile plant that needs the right soil and growing conditions to survive.

These conditions are rarely found in the middle east.
-------------------------------------------------
That's why we took out Gaddafi and Mubarak, we wanted to create the right soil and growing conditions for Al Queda. The soil is loamy now. Mission Accomplished.

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Author: tjscott0 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 675339 of 736444
Subject: Re: Iraq 10 Years After Date: 3/20/2013 3:57 PM
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Was he crazy enough to try to pull a stunt like 9/11 on us? Yes.

we're just gonna have to differ on that one.

Saddam miscalculated on the invasion of Kuwait. I believe he thought the Saudis & Turkey wouldn't allow the infidels [us] into their country.

After that Saddam was purty much boxed up & wasn't a threat.Any attacks on the US that could be traced back to him would mean his end. He did wish to live.

I'm not opposed to taking military action against Iran and/or North Korea (the other two countries Bush listed as the "Axis of Evil"), they're still in that same camp the way I see it. The lessons we learned in Iraq would serve us very well should we have to engage either of those countries.


What lesson would that be. That invaders are hated & the populations will pursue guerrilla warfare agin the invader. Plan converting them to democracies? Don't make me giggle.

Oh & how will these wars be funded?

And as I recall China very well take exception to our warfare upon N Korea as they did in 1950.

The only possible reason for our involvement in the middle east is due to strategic concern eg oil. Those tribal societies ain't ever gonna like us or vote in US type republic. So that leaves putting in a tyrant that owes us for his power. Oh yeah we tried that once already. Remember the Shah?

Our country needs a national energy policy that reduces reliance on oil & aggressively support drilling for oil in less negative areas & in the US. If peak oil hasn't hit yet; its just around the corner. We should exploring ways to reduce our need for oil.

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Author: 307wolverine Big funky green star, 20000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 675343 of 736444
Subject: Re: Iraq 10 Years After Date: 3/20/2013 4:34 PM
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Our country needs a national energy policy that reduces reliance on oil & aggressively support drilling for oil in less negative areas & in the US

Personalyy, I am tired of the Wise Thinkers in DC formulating policy. The only "policy" I would support would be to let the marketplace dictate prices and sources of energy.

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Author: lowstudent Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 675345 of 736444
Subject: Re: Iraq 10 Years After Date: 3/20/2013 4:40 PM
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Our country needs a national energy policy that reduces reliance on oil & aggressively support drilling for oil in less negative areas & in the US

Personalyy, I am tired of the Wise Thinkers in DC formulating policy. The only "policy" I would support would be to let the marketplace dictate prices and sources of energy.
______________________

I do not understand your skepticism

SO far we have abandoned nuclear where we had it, and made it too expensive to use anywhere else

We have ensured we not update our facilities to burn coal cleanly and cheaply

We have spend oodles of money on bad technology that we later sold to China for pennies on the dollar

We have wasted billions running out military one overly expensive fuels

We have limited out own ability to produce energy and limit exports

We have actually SENT money to other countries to update their facilities

Why would you not trust the government to do a reset, after all it is likely they will do it right this time, and will not change direction in the middle and shaft everyone.

I mean, you would think they are due to get something right. I know that is as likely as the sun being due to rise at night and go down in the morning, but still....

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Author: tjscott0 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 675346 of 736444
Subject: Re: Iraq 10 Years After Date: 3/20/2013 5:15 PM
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Personalyy, I am tired of the Wise Thinkers in DC formulating policy. The only "policy" I would support would be to let the marketplace dictate prices and sources of energy.
______________________

I do not understand your skepticism

SO far we have abandoned nuclear where we had it, and made it too expensive to use anywhere else

We have ensured we not update our facilities to burn coal cleanly and cheaply

We have spend oodles of money on bad technology that we later sold to China for pennies on the dollar

We have wasted billions running out military one overly expensive fuels

We have limited out own ability to produce energy and limit exports

We have actually SENT money to other countries to update their facilities

Why would you not trust the government to do a reset, after all it is likely they will do it right this time, and will not change direction in the middle and shaft everyone.

I mean, you would think they are due to get something right. I know that is as likely as the sun being due to rise at night and go down in the morning, but still....


The market place is dictating natural gas power plants.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB2000142405274870357980457544...
Power companies are increasingly switching to natural gas to fuel their electricity plants, driven by low prices and forecasts of vast supplies for years to come.

While the trend started in the late 1990s, the momentum is accelerating and comes at the expense of coal. Some utilities are closing coal-fired plants; others are converting them to run on gas.


Looking @ the fluctuating price of natural gas: I suspect many utility corporations will regret that choice.
http://www.eia.gov/dnav/ng/hist/n9190us3m.htm

The one smart choice the French made was in their national electric power generation plan. They generate nearly 80% of their electricity by nuclear plants. And all the plants are a limited number of designs. Their engineers & scientists decide on a design that all plants are built too. They periodically make improvements on that design in which subsequent plants are built too. I believe there are currently 4 nuclear design types in the french power system. This lessen construction cost as cookie cutter plants are built rather than many custom individual designed plants.

In addition to more nuke power plants methinks our nation should be looking more into coal gasification & coal to liquid fuel technology. South Africa has been using such technology since 1955*. It makes sense from a national defense viewpoint.

*http://www.worldcoal.org/coal/uses-of-coal/coal-to-liquids/

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Author: lowstudent Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 675348 of 736444
Subject: Re: Iraq 10 Years After Date: 3/20/2013 5:25 PM
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The market place is dictating natural gas power plants.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB2000142405274870357980457544......
Power companies are increasingly switching to natural gas to fuel their electricity plants, driven by low prices and forecasts of vast supplies for years to come.
\
)_________________________

The 'MARKET' is dictating nuclear or clean coal.

The Government is dictating that is not going to happen

I hate the market getting blamed for bad decisions when politicians have made the good decisions out of bounds.

This distortion of why the free market does not work is so pervasive people who should know better do not even recognize they are participating.

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Author: 2828 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 675349 of 736444
Subject: Re: Iraq 10 Years After Date: 3/20/2013 5:26 PM
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The marketplace at work:

http://hotair.com/archives/2013/03/20/federally-mandated-eth...

It is perfectly true that there are a bunch of factors that together determine the prices we pay at the pump — oil is supplied, bought, and sold in a very global market, after all — and that the federal government doesn’t always have the ability to impact those factors. That said, there are also plenty of ways in which the government can and does influence gasoline prices — and if and when prices spike this summer, you can reasonably lay a very heady chunk of the blame on the Obama administration.

The EPA, you see, simply insists that we must all continue to mix still more gasoline with even higher ethanol blends — and they are really not all that concerned with what that requirement does to prices at the pump.
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In a nutshell: If you don’t want to comply with the EPA’s standards, you have to buy credits to excuse yourself; nobody really wants to comply with the EPA’s standards, so the price of the credits is going up.

Critics claim that the spike in credit prices is just the result of some panic-trading, and the average price will eventually settle down somewhere closer to 31 cents — which completely misses the point. Why the heck does the Environmental Protection Agency even have a Renewable Fuel Standard that forces people to buy a product they don’t want to use, at an increased price? Nobody even likes ethanol, except, of course, for Big Ethanol lobbyists and the crony-bureaucrats who love them.

How often are we going to be forced to put up with the EPA’s utter folly and special-interest pandering masquerading as an honest renewable energy venture?
------------------------------------------------------
.....and that my friends is what we call a "free market" dictated by the gov't.

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Author: tjscott0 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 675355 of 736444
Subject: Re: Iraq 10 Years After Date: 3/20/2013 5:56 PM
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The 'MARKET' is dictating nuclear or clean coal.


You might want to check out the chart here:
http://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/2012/08/22/electri...

Levelized Costs

Because production costs do not include capital costs or financing charges, production costs are much lower than levelized costs. As noted above, levelized costs represent the total costs of constructing new power plants including their capital and financing charges. A new nuclear power plant, for example, has one of the highest levelized costs, particularly compared to coal and natural gas-fired plants, and its costs are exceeded only by certain renewable plants, such as offshore wind and solar power, according to the Energy Information Administration (EIA).


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Author: tjscott0 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 675357 of 736444
Subject: Re: Iraq 10 Years After Date: 3/20/2013 6:00 PM
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The EPA, you see, simply insists that we must all continue to mix still more gasoline with even higher ethanol blends — and they are really not all that concerned with what that requirement does to prices at the pump

Nobody even likes ethanol, except, of course, for Big Ethanol lobbyists and the crony-bureaucrats who love them.


Ah corporate interests influences congressperson via campaign contributions. Yep applies to both parties.

Ah the nasty EPA that has gone beyond basic pollution concerns. Well that what happens when agencies are created. And who do we have to blame fet that? Let me give you a hint. "I am not a crook."

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Author: 2828 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 675359 of 736444
Subject: Re: Iraq 10 Years After Date: 3/20/2013 6:24 PM
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Ah the nasty EPA that has gone beyond basic pollution concerns. Well that what happens when agencies are created. And who do we have to blame fet that? Let me give you a hint. "I am not a crook."
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I realize that. Then i assume next time Social Security or Medicare comes up you'll make sure to put the blame on the party that started them in order to be consistent. If that's your litmus test then be consistent.

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Author: tjscott0 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 675360 of 736444
Subject: Re: Iraq 10 Years After Date: 3/20/2013 6:24 PM
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The decade-long (Iraq) effort cost $1.7 trillion, according to a study

Actually that estimated cost is way low. We need to factor in the continuing support of disabled veterans.

Did you know we still are paying some bennies for the civil war?

http://money.msn.com/now/post.aspx?post=dcac55b0-93d0-4fb1-9...

It discovered that the U.S. is still paying restitution for conflicts that began in the 19th century.

two elderly children of Civil War veterans in North Carolina and Tennessee. Though born in the 1920s and 1930s, the two recipients in question were fathered by Civil War veterans in their 70s and 80s (not an uncommon occurrence, especially in the veterans community). Those the two offspring still receive $876 a year in benefits. Such survivor payouts usually end by the time children turn 18, but those born with disabilities rendering them incapable of caring for themselves are covered for life.

Such is the case with 10 surviving children of veterans from the 1898 Spanish-American War. They're still awarded a combined $50,000 a year for their parents' service.

But that doesn't even come close to the compensation the U.S. pays out to Vietnam veterans, their families and families of those killed in action. That alone tops $22 billion a year


In NO WAY am I'm suggesting we don't owe this money to veterans. I expect the butcher's bill will be much higher for the Afghanistan & Iraq war especially as many served multiple tours of duty.

We enter war with amazingly speed & ease nowadays without thought about to cost & country knowledge rather from a knee jerk emotional response . We wanted to strike back. Well IMHO we struck back at the wrong country Iraq & became another in a long line of conquering countries made the error of an Afghanistan adventure. We can learn much by studying Israeli secret war against terrorism which is at least 40 years old.

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Author: tjscott0 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 675364 of 736444
Subject: Re: Iraq 10 Years After Date: 3/20/2013 6:51 PM
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Then i assume next time Social Security or Medicare comes up you'll make sure to put the blame on the party that started them in order to be consistent. If that's your litmus test then be consistent.

Sure. FDR & LBJ. And liberals will drive this country to bankruptcy by treating Social Security and Medicare as sacrosanct. But conservatives while bitching & complaining are gutless. As Samuelson stated "Paul Ryan’s latest budget plan. From 2014 to 2023, he proposes cutting federal spending by $4.6 trillion. Not a cent comes from Social Security, while Medicare cuts are tiny, about 2 percent." WTF! By compromise they have become liberal-lites.

I just think as thinking conservatives we need to realize the democratic-lite party [GOP} ain't the solution. And that voting for the less bad party ain't the solution either. I don't believe the GOP can be reformed*. Perhaps accelerating to Armageddon will cause the necessary change. Mebbe not as I look & read about what is going on in the EU.

*I would prefer that GOP stick to its principles rather than caving they are afraid of being labeled nasty people by the opposing party & media. The only one in that party with any guts is Rand Paul And he is a pariah & attacked by members of his own party.

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Author: lowstudent Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 675368 of 736444
Subject: Re: Iraq 10 Years After Date: 3/20/2013 7:37 PM
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You might want to check out the chart here:
http://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/2012/08/22/electri......

Levelized Costs

Because production costs do not include capital costs or financing charges, production costs are much lower than levelized costs. As noted above, levelized costs represent the total costs of constructing new power plants including their capital and financing charges. A new nuclear power plant, for example, has one of the highest levelized costs, particularly compared to coal and natural gas-fired plants, and its costs are exceeded only by certain renewable plants, such as offshore wind and solar power, according to the Energy Information Administration (EIA).
___________________________________-

Well there's a shocker, that as nuclear plant is more expensive to build.

Any business would build a nuclear plant first, stable known costs, runs cleaner and longer, and produces cheaper for a longer time.

Then eliminate the burden on constructions costs put there by absurd requirement in any plan for litigation concerns during construction.

You might want to let reality enter your thoughts on this one.

Then you might also want to consider how the costs would be far far lower if there were multiple plants being built and the improvement in construction methodology that would be part of that equation.

I will repeat, probably not for the last time, there are a lot of folks who allow a very fettered market to be called a free market.

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Author: lowstudent Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 675370 of 736444
Subject: Re: Iraq 10 Years After Date: 3/20/2013 7:46 PM
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Sure. FDR & LBJ. And liberals will drive this country to bankruptcy by treating Social Security and Medicare as sacrosanct. But conservatives while bitching & complaining are gutless. As Samuelson stated "Paul Ryan’s latest budget plan. From 2014 to 2023, he proposes cutting federal spending by $4.6 trillion. Not a cent comes from Social Security, while Medicare cuts are tiny, about 2 percent." WTF! By compromise they have become liberal-lites
_____________________

Politics is the art of the possible

It does no one any good at all to put something forward that ensure that the Democrats get enough seats in both houses forever to do as they please

Conservatives can;'t do as they want. Even if they wanted to they are smart enough to do a gradual change

This is simply NOT the time. We can complain all we want, Establish credibility by righting the ship, then start making that kind of change.

RIght now taking on those things would be like that scene from Animal House

--now is the time for a really futile gesture and we're just the guys to do it.

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Author: CCinOC Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 675387 of 736444
Subject: Re: Iraq 10 Years After Date: 3/20/2013 11:54 PM
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The only one in that party with any guts is Rand Paul And he is a pariah & attacked by members of his own party.

Then how did he win the straw poll at CPAC?

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Author: CCinOC Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 675391 of 736444
Subject: Re: Iraq 10 Years After Date: 3/21/2013 12:04 AM
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It does no one any good at all to put something forward that ensure that the Democrats get enough seats in both houses forever to do as they please.

Not forever. Our country will implode soon.

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Author: tjscott0 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 675408 of 736444
Subject: Re: Iraq 10 Years After Date: 3/21/2013 11:48 AM
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Then how did he win the straw poll at CPAC?

CPAC is largely made up of libertarian republicans. While you might find John McCain or Lindsey Graham there; they be like fish out of water there.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/03/15/rand-paul-r...
Ideological ornithologists Sens. John McCain and Lindsey Graham would be disappointed to find a rather large population of “wacko birds” in the CPAC hall and the once-ascendant neoconservative movement barely represented.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/18/john-mccain-moss-co...

McCain has been in something of a spat lately with Paul, and to a lesser extent Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas), both of whom McCain called "wacko birds" in a recent HuffPost interview. McCain apologized over the weekend.

Nevertheless, McCain did not back down from one of the reasons he called the tea party senators wackos. He basically thinks their ideas about things like sequestration being a pittance are terrible.


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Author: warrl Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 675482 of 736444
Subject: Re: Iraq 10 Years After Date: 3/21/2013 11:25 PM
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While Saddam and his sons paid for their sins, they had had nothing at all to do with 9/11. Nothing. That had all been mendacious propaganda.

Buchanan is correct about this. The notion that Saddam was alleged to have something to do with 9/11 and that this was any part of the justification for the war, was mendacious propaganda. By after-the-fact opponents of that war, many of whom had been in favor of it both immediately beforehand and during the prior administration.

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Author: warrl Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 675484 of 736444
Subject: Re: Iraq 10 Years After Date: 3/21/2013 11:49 PM
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Nobody even likes ethanol, except, of course, for Big Ethanol lobbyists and the crony-bureaucrats who love them.

This is not true. There is someone else who likes ethanol.

Big Corn.

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Author: bighairymike Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 675487 of 736444
Subject: Re: Iraq 10 Years After Date: 3/22/2013 12:16 AM
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This is not true. There is someone else who likes ethanol.

Big Corn. - warrl


------------------

Which is entangled with Iowa having the all important first primary of the election season...

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Author: lowstudent Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 675492 of 736444
Subject: Re: Iraq 10 Years After Date: 3/22/2013 6:12 AM
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Which is entangled with Iowa having the all important first primary of the election season...
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ADM owns more Congress critters than Boeing.

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