UnThreaded | Threaded | Whole Thread (45) | Ignore Thread Prev Thread | Next Thread
Author: PeterRabit Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 1963458  
Subject: Is this not Hell? Date: 7/5/2006 12:39 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 93
Links which describe how US soldiers with the help of buddies plotted the rape and murder of a 14 year-old Iraqi girl and her family, and how the girl's family tried to protect her by having her sleep somewhere else.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/03/AR2006070300938.html

http://www.armytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-1925550.php

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/1107AP_Iraq_Rape_Investigation.html

As I was saying (before I was so rudely interrupted):

Is this not Hell?

To live in a country where you must pass through checkpoints manned by foreign soldiers and to know, KNOW, that attracting the attention of those soldiers to a 14-year-old girl is a very dangerous thing.

We created this Hell. Or more accurately George Bush did.

Now consider the effect this has on the so-called "war on terror." The
only chance we have of "winning' this war on Islamic fanatics is to earn the approval and support of the moderate Muslims.

How many tens of millions of moderate Muslims just turned against us because of this rape of a girl (waiting for the MSM to stop calling her a women) and the cold-blooded murder of her family.

Iraq had nothing to do with ObL and 9/11 but now our occupation and terrorization of Iraq is the single largest factor working against us.

Lacking certain knowledge of a Biblical Hell, let us at least sentence George W. Bush to roam the dusty roads of Iraq begging forgiveness.

Peter

P.S. Now do you think some fine upstanding PA regular FA'd my original post because they are concerned about DMCA violations? Or because they don't like to see my opinion out there?

Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Print the post Back To Top
Author: otter6 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 962113 of 1963458
Subject: Re: Is this not Hell? Date: 7/5/2006 1:02 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 5
We created this Hell. Or more accurately George Bush did.

yep, its not the perps fault is it? He and his buds didn't act on their own... Took G. Bush to put them up to it.. sigh....



Print the post Back To Top
Author: TheSmay Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 962140 of 1963458
Subject: Re: Is this not Hell? Date: 7/5/2006 8:05 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 8
yep, its not the perps fault is it? He and his buds didn't act on their own... Took G. Bush to put them up to it.. sigh....

I'll take "missed the point" for $200 Alex.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: kenm47 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 962146 of 1963458
Subject: Re: Is this not Hell? Date: 7/5/2006 8:33 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
"yep, its not the perps fault is it? He and his buds didn't act on their own... Took G. Bush to put them up to it.. sigh...."

Someone was negligent in giving this guy and his buds weapons and putting them in the position to do this. Criminal facillitation.

Ken




Print the post Back To Top
Author: otter6 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 962149 of 1963458
Subject: Re: Is this not Hell? Date: 7/5/2006 8:43 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
I'll take "missed the point" for $200 Alex.

go for the $500 question... I can name you a few that have done something just about as horrendus here within the confines of the US...

and President Bush didn't "put them there"...

although to give Alex credit, he was able to make it come across as if to say, IF President Bush didn't give this cretin the "opportunity" thanks to his "war", it wouldn't have happened...

not withstanding, you lose $ for not assigning the blame to the real cause for this act... but then again, isn't that the norm? That somehow the perp just "wouldn't have done it" if someone didn't provide them an opportunity??



Print the post Back To Top
Author: otter6 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 962151 of 1963458
Subject: Re: Is this not Hell? Date: 7/5/2006 8:50 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 2
Someone was negligent in giving this guy and his buds weapons and putting them in the position to do this. Criminal facillitation.

Ken


yup, knew it was only a matter of time before it was someone elses fault for this happening...

hey, you smoked all your life and have lung cancer... despite the repeated warnings, which you failed to heed, don't worry, we will blame the tobacco companies...

hey, you rolled over your Ford Explorer because you were driving too fast for the conditions and in a manner that exceeds the Explorers manueverability characteristics. But thats ok, we will sue Ford for selling you a car that this could happen in...

yep, given the nature of the beast, knew someone would eventually say it...


Print the post Back To Top
Author: SaintPatrick1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 962155 of 1963458
Subject: Re: Is this not Hell? Date: 7/5/2006 8:55 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 3
Yes. Iraq is hell. Would that it would be the heaven that it was in the good old days.

You know. The days which Saddam's sons had state sanctioned rape rooms. Those good old --- heaven like --- days when there was no "hell like" prosecution of those who committed atrocities on the Iraqi people.



Print the post Back To Top
Author: kenm47 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 962164 of 1963458
Subject: Re: Is this not Hell? Date: 7/5/2006 9:08 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 3
"You want to see the troops defeated, disgraced, stripped of all honor, spit upon. You will do everthing and say anything that you can to see them come to this pass, and then you will blame them for it."

Horsepuckies! You'll never get the difference between supporting and respecting the troops (most of them), and criticizing the exercise they've been ordered to engage in by W and his ilk.

Ken

Print the post Back To Top
Author: kenm47 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 962165 of 1963458
Subject: Re: Is this not Hell? Date: 7/5/2006 9:12 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
"Someone was negligent in giving this guy and his buds weapons and putting them in the position to do this. Criminal facillitation.

Ken


yup, knew it was only a matter of time before it was someone elses fault for this happening..."

Missed the point again. What a surprise! The guys who did this, if they did this, are criminals. Criminals may have co-conspirators or aiders and abettors who may not take part in the crime directly but share responsibility for the sequellae of their actions.

The folks who gave the criminals guns and put them in the position to do this have a responsibility even if they did not themselves do the crime.

Clear?

Ken

Print the post Back To Top
Author: proton500 Big red star, 1000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 962166 of 1963458
Subject: Re: Is this not Hell? Date: 7/5/2006 9:13 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 10
Otter: President Bush didn't "put them there"...

Bush put them in Iraq because god told him to, so why didn't god stop the rape and murder? And why is god making Bush look like a disillusioned fool?

proton


Print the post Back To Top
Author: otter6 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 962173 of 1963458
Subject: Re: Is this not Hell? Date: 7/5/2006 9:23 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 3
The folks who gave the criminals guns and put them in the position to do this have a responsibility even if they did not themselves do the crime.

Clear?

Ken


nope.... not at all.... cause where do you draw the line at which no one else is responsbile...

lets take the car that is used to run someone over. Based on your LOGIC, lets see who is to blame:

-- the driver obviously or is he the one that is not responsible since everyone else "above" him provided the means?? Or how much of the blame for the crime is his? Is it proportioned based on how many others we can find to blame?

so we have the driver

then we obviously have to go after the dealer who sold the vehicle, who GAVE the criminal the MEANS

then we have to go after the auto manufacturer since he gave the dealer the MEANS in order for the DEALER to be implicite in the crime for PROVIDING the means to the criminal. Getting a little wacky already, but hey, we are just getting started. Man, your logic is fun... but I digress, lets see, who can we blame next..

the tire manufacturer, why without his contribution, the car would not have been drivable to the scene..

how about the transport service who made it possible for the car to get from the manufacturer to the dealership?? sure why not... he contributed to the end sum....

should I go on??? How about the transport drivers wife? Why her? Well she made him dinner so that he had the energy to drive the transport rig...

more? or where do I stop Ken... Where does your logic of assigning blame end...


Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Print the post Back To Top
Author: masonjarjar Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 962174 of 1963458
Subject: Re: Is this not Hell? Date: 7/5/2006 9:24 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
Bush put them in Iraq because god told him to, so why didn't god stop the rape and murder?


don't you know, god was just "testing" him, of course, he failed and a family is now dead.

I hope god is happy.

-jar


Print the post Back To Top
Author: SaintPatrick1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 962175 of 1963458
Subject: Re: Is this not Hell? Date: 7/5/2006 9:29 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
Bush put them in Iraq because god told him to

Hearsay. Bush has supposedly told people something like that...but to pretend that is something that he said is untrue.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: otter6 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 962176 of 1963458
Subject: Re: Is this not Hell? Date: 7/5/2006 9:29 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
Bush put them in Iraq because god told him to, so why didn't god stop the rape and murder? And why is god making Bush look like a disillusioned fool?

proton


ah, so its God's fault now? well I guess that answers Kens question of how far back blame can be assigned...

but if you want to seriously to hear answers to your questions, do your own research. This "effort" has been tried many times... the answers are there if you really want to understand what some much more versed than I think...




Print the post Back To Top
Author: kenm47 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 962177 of 1963458
Subject: Re: Is this not Hell? Date: 7/5/2006 9:29 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 2
"more? or where do I stop Ken... Where does your logic of assigning blame end... "

Where Truman said "the buck stops."

Ken

Print the post Back To Top
Author: SaintPatrick1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 962179 of 1963458
Subject: Re: Is this not Hell? Date: 7/5/2006 9:33 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
Now it's Truman's fault.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: PeterRabit Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 962180 of 1963458
Subject: Re: Is this not Hell? Date: 7/5/2006 9:34 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 2
The folks who gave the criminals guns and put them in the position to do this have a responsibility even if they did not themselves do the crime.

Clear?

Ken


Yes, but more broadly it is impossible to occupy a country where any individual person there can be about to kill you without demonizing and dehumanizing the population. It is a fact of nature and does not depend on having a "few bad apples."

George W. is to blame for the occupation, not the soldiers.

Peter




Print the post Back To Top
Author: otter6 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 962181 of 1963458
Subject: Re: Is this not Hell? Date: 7/5/2006 9:37 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0

Where Truman said "the buck stops."

Ken


well according to MY logic ken, that would make the criminal the "buck stops here" end game.

but according to your LOGIC expressed a few ago, its open ended... How do we determine "where the buck stops"? Cause using your logic, anyone in the pipeline could be complicit because they somehow could be accused of "aiding" the criminal in some fashion...

so how do we know we have reached the 'buck stops here' point?? whats your definition? Have to understand this or hell, we could end up with a legal system that mirrors some of what we see taking place today, but on a much grander scale... today we have folks attempting to sue the gun manufacturers using your logic... not sure why they stop there, maybe they just aren't taking full advantage of your logic...



Print the post Back To Top
Author: otter6 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 962184 of 1963458
Subject: Re: Is this not Hell? Date: 7/5/2006 9:39 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
Yes, but more broadly it is impossible to occupy a country where any individual person there can be about to kill you without demonizing and dehumanizing the population.

boy does this one beg for a source or reference to the arguement made to draw this conclusion...

Print the post Back To Top
Author: ggleblanc2 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 962185 of 1963458
Subject: Re: Is this not Hell? Date: 7/5/2006 9:39 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 2
Don't forget that little girls could fly kites when Saddam was ruling. Now, because of the mean United States military, little girls can no longer fly kites in Iraq.

Never forget. It's always the fault of the United States. No matter what.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: deejay7 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 962188 of 1963458
Subject: Re: Is this not Hell? Date: 7/5/2006 9:45 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 2
yep, its not the perps fault is it? He and his buds didn't act on their own... Took G. Bush to put them up to it.. sigh....

Clearly, the "perps" wouldn't have been there if George W Bush and his gang had kept their eye on the ball and killed or captured Osama bin Laden. The Iraq war was/is a war of choice. It's Bush's war!

Not to mention the fact that over 2,500 US troops and thousands of Iraqis would still be alive today but for the stupidity and incompetence of George W Bush!!!

deejay7

Print the post Back To Top
Author: bufftrainer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 962197 of 1963458
Subject: Re: Is this not Hell? Date: 7/5/2006 9:54 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
<a crime perpetrated by these creeps>

So I guess you've found these guys guilty, but to call for an investigation of the Ramadi accusations was to violate the rights of the guys accused, huh? A singular system of "logic" you use, big guy.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: Mitamuna Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 962199 of 1963458
Subject: Re: Is this not Hell? Date: 7/5/2006 9:56 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1

So I guess you've found these guys guilty, but to call for an investigation of the Ramadi accusations was to violate the rights of the guys accused, huh? A singular system of "logic" you use, big guy.


I wonder if you'd use the same logic if these were IDF soldiers....


Mark


Print the post Back To Top
Author: jwiest Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 962201 of 1963458
Subject: Re: Is this not Hell? Date: 7/5/2006 10:02 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 40
There are always a few in any organization that will commit crimes regardless of the situation, in peace or in war.

This is beyond "bad apples". When you can take a few people who have never met before and toss them together in a group and they find out they trust each other enough to premeditate raping a girl and then kill her family...the problem is much bigger than you are letting on.

First it suggests lax leadership. We have leaders who question the standard accepted protocols for waging war in as humane a fashion as possible, leaders who quibble over the question "what is torture?"

Second, it suggests a widespread hatred for the locals. This is no surprise. We aren't supposed to be there, and you can't tell friend from foe, which puts these guys under an overwhelming amount of stress. That they would crack in concert says a lot about the terrible conditions they are in.

You are such a bunch of damnable liars. You want to see the troops defeated, disgraced, stripped of all honor, spit upon. You will do everthing and say anything that you can to see them come to this pass, and then you will blame them for it.

*sigh* Their situation is untenable, and you want to keep them there? What does that say for you? And when people who have actually served come out and say "the war is wrong", you're there right up front, spittle flying.

Here is the essence of your double-speak:

Keep the troops in harm's way for no good reason = Support the troops
Remove the troops from harm's way because they were sent for the wrong reasons = Spit on the troops

The evidence would suggest you actually want the troops to be dead. What is the source of this, your vendetta against the troops?


Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Print the post Back To Top
Author: OblivionX Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 962213 of 1963458
Subject: Re: Is this not Hell? Date: 7/5/2006 10:20 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
The days which Saddam's sons had state sanctioned rape rooms.

Over 100K raped and counting...

Note, use whatever number you want, no one can check.

PSA, courtesy of Republican Talking Points.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: SaintPatrick1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 962218 of 1963458
Subject: Re: Is this not Hell? Date: 7/5/2006 10:26 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
OblivionX:

Don't be so passive aggressive. Tell me that you do not believe any such thing happened during Saddam's rule of Iraq. Tell me that Uday and Qusay did not ever harm a hair on an Iraqi woman's head. Tell me that Saddam punished such offenders for doing so.

Your PSA comment diminishes the fact that, while acknowleging that this incident of alleged rape and murder by a group of US army men is tragic and sick, tragedy and sickness ran rampant pre Saddam's fall.

Print the post Back To Top
Author: otter6 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 962234 of 1963458
Subject: Re: Is this not Hell? Date: 7/5/2006 10:46 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
...This is beyond "bad apples". When you can take a few people who have never met before and toss them together in a group and they find out they trust each other enough to premeditate raping a girl and then kill her family... the problem is much bigger than you are letting on.
the problem is much bigger than you are letting on.


yup, here in the states we call them gangs... mob mentality...

First it suggests lax leadership.

ok, what is it in say, Chicago?? NYCity??

Second, it suggests a widespread hatred for the locals. This is no surprise.

no, I would call your making this "leap" a "surprise". Here in the states, we call it, the criminal trying to cover his/her tracks..

the rest? rabid ramblings this morn??



Print the post Back To Top
Author: FKJacobs Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 962244 of 1963458
Subject: Re: Is this not Hell? Date: 7/5/2006 10:55 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 7
What matters most is how this whole thing looks from the perspective of the Muslim World and the people of the Middle East in particular.

With each innocent we kill, (weather by bullet or Bomb) we give birth to 10 that hate us. At this point there is no way we will win the Middle Eastern hearts and minds, thanks mostly to what is happing in Iraq. We started this battle from behind the curve thanks to the almost 100 years of trying to run the M.E. for the benefit of big oil and the power control of the oil brings.

In the end, all our troops have just one goal…. To come back home alive, and keep there buddies alive. If they have to kill 30 innocent people to stop one guilty person from hurting them or their friends they will do it – screw the mission, screw the higher-ups. This is and always will be the way.

I would bet most of our troops look at the people in the Middle East and see Sand Ni????s or Rag Heads, or Islamo-fascists, or what ever. Thanks to the dehumanizing process, that happens in ALL wars and small unit cohesion this crime (and many like it we don't hear about) come easy.

We have to find a better way to fight Al Quida than this.


Print the post Back To Top
Author: proton500 Big red star, 1000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 962250 of 1963458
Subject: Re: Is this not Hell? Date: 7/5/2006 11:00 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
Otter why can't you and your minions answer my questions? Ignoring reality doesn't make it go away. I'm a godless member of the church of liberalism and Ann Coulter and your fundamentalist preachers aren't here to help you wingnuts so speak up.

proton

http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=24304866



Print the post Back To Top
Author: OblivionX Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 962258 of 1963458
Subject: Re: Is this not Hell? Date: 7/5/2006 11:22 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
Don't be so passive aggressive.

Appreciate that. I don't view it as a personal attack. Have to mull that one.

Tell me that you do not believe any such thing happened during Saddam's rule of Iraq.

I think it a matter of scale/relativism at this point. I think the argument was used after the failure of finding the wealth of WMD's occurred. At this point IMHO the argument falls flat on its face.

In the same way that the Israel's would use the kidnapping of one of it's soldiers to justify torching Gaza. (that should bring Dove out).

Your PSA comment diminishes the fact that, while acknowleging that this incident of alleged rape and murder by a group of US army men is tragic and sick, tragedy and sickness ran rampant pre Saddam's fall.


I agree, but in the same sense using that tragedy in face of the nightmare/hell that is the current Iraq is also a diminishment of the indulgement of the crimes of the ruling Party members of the Hussain <sic> government.

And of course my stock reply. If the those who would use this line really feel that strongly about it, the are advocating we become the World's policeman and ala Jimmy Carter we would need to cut ties with those countries (current allies) that violate basic human right principle.

0x


Print the post Back To Top
Author: dovbaer6 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 962263 of 1963458
Subject: Re: Is this not Hell? Date: 7/5/2006 11:27 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1

In the same way that the Israel's would use the kidnapping of one of it's soldiers to justify torching Gaza. (that should bring Dove out).

========================

You mean Dov, not Dove.



Print the post Back To Top
Author: OblivionX Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 962265 of 1963458
Subject: Re: Is this not Hell? Date: 7/5/2006 11:30 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
OCD : Dov



Print the post Back To Top
Author: otter6 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 962268 of 1963458
Subject: Re: Is this not Hell? Date: 7/5/2006 11:42 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
Otter why can't you and your minions answer my questions? Ignoring reality doesn't make it go away. I'm a godless member of the church of liberalism and Ann Coulter and your fundamentalist preachers aren't here to help you wingnuts so speak up.

told you better folks than I have answered this question and recommended YOU do your own legwork. But since that effort apparently befuddles you, here are some things for you to ponder. Note, there is no "soundbite" to give you the answer, just a little reading and something to ponder as you seek the answer to your question:

http://www.explorefaith.org/world.html

http://www.gocampus.org/alliance/acquire/Why_does_God_let_bad_things.html

http://www.abetterhope.com/victory/whydid.html

http://www.bible.org/page.asp?page_id=1214

http://www.bibletruths.net/Archives/BTAR207.htm

Print the post Back To Top
Author: jwiest Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 962284 of 1963458
Subject: Re: Is this not Hell? Date: 7/5/2006 12:09 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 8
LOL, don't you love this disconnect? From otter's first link, the madness begins:

http://www.explorefaith.org/world.html

Most "bad" things which happen do so because God gives a radical freedom to God's people; we are free people, not puppets on a string. But God does not cause "bad" things to happen. God loves us and grieves with us in our pain when "bad things" happen.

Completely at odds with the "omnipotence/omniscience" thing, of course. Okay, so you have three choices:

Either God is omnipotent and in control of everything, and therefore a real bastard, sending tsunamis and tornadoes to "test" us;

OR

God is completely ineffectual, having no control over tsunamis and tornadoes, which makes the rest of what is said about him dubious;

OR

No amount of rationalizing can get past how a loving omnipotent omniscient God tolerates evil in his universe, nor punishments like Hell. So God either does not exist, or has a form completely at odds with what is being preached.


Print the post Back To Top
Author: TheDope1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 962290 of 1963458
Subject: Re: Is this not Hell? Date: 7/5/2006 12:14 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
Horsepuckies! You'll never get the difference between supporting and respecting the troops (most of them), and criticizing the exercise they've been ordered to engage in by W and his ilk.

Horsepuckies on you! OP indeed tried to paint them all as rapists and murderers, predictably, you rush to his defense. You guys are so over the top these days...

Print the post Back To Top
Author: 0x6a74 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 962404 of 1963458
Subject: Re: Is this not Hell? Date: 7/5/2006 2:30 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 2

Bush put them in Iraq because god told him to, so why didn't god stop the rape and murder? And why is god making Bush look like a disillusioned fool?


an unfortunate aspect of god's plan to destroy the United States.

Bush is god's tool to that end.


=

Print the post Back To Top
Author: JustWhoIAm Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 962415 of 1963458
Subject: Re: Is this not Hell? Date: 7/5/2006 2:48 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
The
only chance we have of "winning' this war on Islamic fanatics is to earn the approval and support of the moderate Muslims.


Or we could all convert to Islam.

Keith

Print the post Back To Top
Author: PeterRabit Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 962456 of 1963458
Subject: Re: Is this not Hell? Date: 7/5/2006 4:00 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
PR The only chance we have of "winning' this war on Islamic fanatics is to earn the approval and support of the moderate Muslims.

Or we could all convert to Islam.

Keith


Do you like the second plan better?

Peter




Print the post Back To Top
Author: otter6 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 962457 of 1963458
Subject: Re: Is this not Hell? Date: 7/5/2006 4:02 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
LOL, don't you love this disconnect? From otter's first link, the madness begins:


got to love the ones who "can't see religion" as a possibility.... unless its their "religion"....

Print the post Back To Top
Author: MrCynic Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 962472 of 1963458
Subject: Re: Is this not Hell? Date: 7/5/2006 4:21 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
As I was saying,

Is this not Hell?

To live in a country where you must pass through checkpoints manned by foreign soldiers and to know, KNOW, that attracting the attention of those soldiers to a 14-year-old girl is a very dangerous thing.


How typical. You take what these creeps did and then try to generalize it to all of the military, to all of the war.

Apparently, by your lights all American soldiers are rapists and all 14 year old Iraqi girls are their targets.

And you claim to support the troops, to only want to see them taken out of harms way.

I beg to differ. It seems to me that you want to see the troops defeated, dishonored, disgraced, spit upon, or else you would not be using the rhetoric you do. You will do whatever needs to be done and say whatever needs to be said to bring this about, and then you will blame them for it.

All large organizations like the military have their creeps. Rapes by military people, hopefully rare, occur in peace and in war. No "hell" is necessary for that.

P.S. Now do you think some fine upstanding PA regular FA'd my original post because they are concerned about DMCA violations? Or because they don't like to see my opinion out there?

Couldn't have said it better myself. (Although I'm not sure what DMCA stands for.)





Print the post Back To Top
Author: JustWhoIAm Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 962517 of 1963458
Subject: Re: Is this not Hell? Date: 7/5/2006 5:15 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
The second plan is a better bet. It may very well be the only way to earn the approval and support of the moderate Muslims.

Keith

Print the post Back To Top
Author: PeterRabit Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 962543 of 1963458
Subject: Re: Is this not Hell? Date: 7/5/2006 6:26 PM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
The second plan is a better bet. It may very well be the only way to earn the approval and support of the moderate Muslims.

Keith


Seriously why do you think moderate Muslims would not approve of the US?

(Other than our tendancy to invade and occupy Muslim countries.)

Twenty-five years later, Iran's youth is rebelling again. But as CBS News Correspondent Elizabeth Palmer reports, this time against the Islamic government itself.

Fully 60 percent of Iranians are under the age of 30, and they have had enough of strict Islamic rule. Everywhere there are signs that the religious authorities are losing control.

Especially for the young, personal behavior in public can be very political. You can easily see some of these small acts of rebellion in a place that would look familiar to any American teenager, like a shopping mall.

Women let their scarves slip back to show their hair. They show off their makeup, tight coats and high heels. Even five years ago, a couple holding hands in public could have been arrested and flogged. The mullahs hope that turning a blind eye to this minor defiance will relieve pressure for major change.

That pressure did explode in 1999. Students rioted and were brutally put down.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/01/25/eveningnews/main669223.shtml

Why should the US have any trouble appealing to Muslims such as these?

Peter



Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Print the post Back To Top
Author: duane1x Two stars, 250 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 962639 of 1963458
Subject: Re: Is this not Hell? Date: 7/6/2006 1:12 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 1
Tell me that you do not believe any such thing happened during Saddam's rule of Iraq. Tell me that Uday and Qusay did not ever harm a hair on an Iraqi woman's head. Tell me that Saddam punished such offenders for doing so.

SaintPatrick, I won't tell you a thing about Uday and Qusay because the only thing that has become clear is how little we know about any of it.

What really are our sources of information about this whole deal? The MSM who were fed PR stories by the war machine? Recall the Iraqi soldiers throwing babies out of incubators? Oops - that turned out to be a total cockup. http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0906/p25s02-cogn.html

I fear too many of us have forgotten this lesson. The money flows out, plausible tales are concocted, and the next thing you know people are making posts on fool.com like they really know a thing or two.

Remember the moments of silence around the nation at ball games and so forth for dear Spencer Tillman? Doesn't the blatant LYING that has come to the surface on this and so many other issues around the Iraq invasion make you question - just a little bit - the moth eaten body of evidence on which we have acted?

Alas. Probably not. I know this much, anyone who knows anything about Uday and Qusay probably won't be posting here. Let's talk to... I don't know, maybe an ordinary Iraqi who lived through it all? Sure is hard to find a thoughtful interview with one.

Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Print the post Back To Top
Author: TheDope1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 962647 of 1963458
Subject: Re: Is this not Hell? Date: 7/6/2006 2:15 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 2
SaintPatrick, I won't tell you a thing about Uday and Qusay because the only thing that has become clear is how little we know about any of it.

If mass graves and rape rooms don't convince you, nothing will.


Print the post Back To Top
Author: SaintPatrick1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 962681 of 1963458
Subject: Re: Is this not Hell? Date: 7/6/2006 8:47 AM
Post New | Post Reply | Reply Later | Create Poll . Report this Post | Recommend it!
Recommendations: 0
www.iraqthemodel.com

is a place to read about one or two Iraqis view of the war in Iraq.

Print the post Back To Top
UnThreaded | Threaded | Whole Thread (45) | Ignore Thread Prev Thread | Next Thread
Advertisement