No. of Recommendations: 46
OK, I didn't want to watch the Academy Awards but DH (that's dear heart) likes movies and such so I watched it. The host, whose name I forget, did a good job of keeping his hatchet-like anti-Bush wit under control. That's the good news. Then we had several speeches about the evils of DVD's ... um, if you guys gave us decent movies, we'd pay the 10 bucks and not wait for the DVD. But WAIT....the best song of the year....drum roll....."It hard out here for a pimp". They actually performed this piece of trash and it was as bad as it sounds. Of course, all of the songs were pretty bad. Dolly Parton sang one that wasn't great either and included things like God and things....not a chance.

Oh, during one of their "please stop buying DVD's" speeches, they showed clips of movies that "one could only truly enjoy on the big screen". Most were about 10-20 years old. They just don't get it, do they? Every single movie they have discussed during this show had a liberal message. That doesn't bother me as much as the fact that they are proud of it and believe that it is their job to "educate" us and attempt to force us think like they do. Um, I don't even care how hard it is to be a pimp.
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wow, Brokeback did NOT win Best Picture....Crash did.

Big surprise!!
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No. of Recommendations: 28
Why does everyone on this board make "liberal" a dirty word?

How about thinking of humane, thoughtful, thought provoking, interesting, challenging, or a "different point of view from my own."

I haven't seen all the movies yet, and I certainly didn't enjoy or understand much of the pimp song, but I didn't see anyone attempting to force you "to think like they do." Who is "they" anyway? Distinguished directors or actors? Writers? The press?

Time to make a movie about judgemental people sitting anonymously in their cosy little homes, or horrid rabbit-warren offices writing to the thousands out here on the web...I could envisage a terific script. ...

Big Momma

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ooops "terrific"
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No. of Recommendations: 99
They just don't get it, do they? Every single movie they have discussed during this show had a liberal message. That doesn't bother me as much as the fact that they are proud of it and believe that it is their job to "educate" us and attempt to force us think like they do.

You plopped your butt in front of the tube for three hours and then complain about being forced what to think?



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No. of Recommendations: 2
They just don't get it, do they? Every single movie they have discussed during this show had a liberal message. That doesn't bother me as much as the fact that they are proud of it and believe that it is their job to "educate" us and attempt to force us think like they do.

You plopped your butt in front of the tube for three hours and then complain about being forced what to think?

----------------------------------------------

The Chronicles of Narnia was written by C.S. Lewis and it was about as far from "liberal" as one might get. It won "best make-up." I went to see it over Christmas with my Fundamentalist Christian In-Laws. I believe it was rated G.

The theme of most movies is "separation", which might be called the main "theme of life". - Art
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No. of Recommendations: 26
Why does everyone on this board make "liberal" a dirty word?

Most of us are not addicted to faith in our moral superiority and the self-delusion required to sustain it. <g>

1HF
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No. of Recommendations: 14
"How about thinking of humane, thoughtful, thought provoking, interesting, challenging, or a "different point of view from my own."

How about one-sided, carefully edited, slanted to make a point, glorified, and generally unpleasant?

Hey, if you like this stuff, have at it. It's a free country. We can all spend our money the way any way we like....and have our own opinions.
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No. of Recommendations: 42
PK227:

We didn't even watch the awards. We went out to dinner, sat and talked a while, and then turned in at a reasonable hour. However, I had to comment on this:

"How about one-sided, carefully edited, slanted to make a point, glorified, and generally unpleasant?"

Are you talking about Karl Rove here or who?

I get no great message from Hollywood, either, but I sure as heck am also tired of the constant one-sided hammering by "the other side" -- and that, sadly, includes our current Administration as well.

What ever happened to rational, thoughtful discourse of issues without having to mindlessly label everyone as "liberal" or "conservative"?

Vermonter
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No. of Recommendations: 9


<<What ever happened to rational, thoughtful discourse of issues without having to mindlessly label everyone as "liberal" or "conservative"?>>

It's gone for now, we've become too polarized.

For every push on either side, there's an aggressive backlash.

The rational majority sit back and watch.



MP
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No. of Recommendations: 1
I don't watch award shows, I just read in the paper the next day the winners. I enjoyed "Crash" and I'm glad it won.

LuckyDog
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No. of Recommendations: 3
MP:

The rational majority sit back and watch.

Let's hope we get better choices in the upcoming elections.

Vermonter
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No. of Recommendations: 5
"The rational majority sit back and watch.



MP"

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

And read.

Talk about stuff over a cup of coffee now and then.

Work a lot.

Save a little.

Wonder what happened to cause folks to forget that one of the key
items in reaching a compromise is to listen to others and have a
degree of respect for them.

Even when you don't agree with another, do not demonize them. Folks
have the perogative of believing what they will and everyone has the
potential to be wrong on one topic or another. Life is never as simple
as folks argue.

Howie52
Who is wrong a lot and expects to be wrong a fair amount more.



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No. of Recommendations: 2
I can't remember the last time I liked a song that was nominated as Best Song, let alone won. I found the Dolly Parton song even harder to listen to than the pimp song--at least the pimp song had an unusual and somewhat interesting tune and harmony. Usually every nominated song represents the worst of American pop pap. Frankly I thought some of the gowns were more tasteless than the winning song, but less so than usual. And at least when the singers won, they were full of unmitigated joy!

I thought Jon Stewart was awful (the only Oscar host I can remember doing a good job was Billy Crystal), many of the presenters embarrassed themsleves (what else is new?!), and the only thank-you speech that moved me and that I can really remember this morning was the guy representing "Tsotsi" from South Africa, which won Best Foreign Film, But I never care who wins (good grief, what could be less important?!)--I only watch the Oscars to see clips of movies I haven't seen yet--sometimes one or two of them intrigue me enough to go see in the theatre. Seems like there are fewer and shorter such clips every year--now there were tons of clips, but they were in montages of movies past. Suggestion: like the technical awards, the self-congratulatory head of the movie biz speech should be off-TV.

There's a (fairly) new PK in town...not like the old PK ;-) There are few centers of liberalism in American life, but by gosh we'd better get rid of every one(!).
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No. of Recommendations: 4
There's a (fairly) new PK in town...not like the old PK ;-) There are few centers of liberalism in American life, but by gosh we'd better get rid of every one(!).
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Relatively few: movies, media, education, off the top of my head, that's it. Mussent disturb the brainwash machine, must not question it, they have so few centers in american life <g>.

Saw two coyotes walking down my street this morning, no this isn't the beginning of a joke.

global housewarming is out of the way, nice house, but the day was sullied by my wifes grandmother having a stroke yesterday, i hope she is ok which may or may not involve living since she wanted to die because of all her pain, they found her because she flooded the apartment and it leaked to the tenant below her, she was brushing her teeth when she collapsed. They now have plans to put her in a nursing home.

2828
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No. of Recommendations: 2
OK, I didn't want to watch the Academy Awards but DH (that's dear heart) likes movies and such so I watched it.

Note to self : Be sure to save enough for retirement to have at least 2 rooms in retirement home.

rad
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No. of Recommendations: 3
It's gone for now, we've become too polarized.

For every push on either side, there's an aggressive backlash.

The rational majority sit back and watch.
MP

Luv, you haven't been around here long enough.

Otherwise, you'd know the Majority aren't the rational ones.

GS....;-)
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No. of Recommendations: 2
can't remember the last time I liked a song that was nominated as Best Song, let alone won. I found the Dolly Parton song even harder to listen to than the pimp song--at least the pimp song had an unusual and somewhat interesting tune and harmony. Usually every nominated song represents the worst of American pop pap. Frankly I thought some of the gowns were more tasteless than the winning song, but less so than usual. And at least when the singers won, they were full of unmitigated joy!

I usually love Dolly, but that song was entirely forgettable, which unfortunate, because she's a much better songwriter than that.

The awards were just OK. However, my crush on George Clooney deepened and I'd forgotten how cute Matt Dillon is.

And where was Johnny Depp?

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It's gone for now, we've become too polarized. For every push on either side, there's an aggressive backlash. The rational majority sit back and watch. - MP
------------------------------------------------------------------------
from Daisy Dryden's (age 11) death bed vision:
"Two days before she left us, the Sunday School Superintendent came to see her. She talked very freely about going, and sent a message by him to the Sunday School. When he was about to leave, he said, "Well, Daisy, you will soon be over the 'dark river.` After he had gone, she asked her father what he meant by the "dark river." He tried to explain it, but she said, "It is all a mistake; there is no river; there is no curtain; there is not even a line that separates this life from the other life." And she stretched out her little hands from the bed, and with a gesture said, "It is here and it is there; I know it is so, for I can see you all, and I see them there at the same time." http://www.survivalafterdeath.org/books/barrett/dbv/chapter3.htm
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Duality is an inherent property of the physical universe and can not be escaped. The more emotional the experience the stronger and more long lasting the memory it creates. It all has to do with "why we are here." We are here on this earth to create memories. We experience "duality" in a million different ways, and the more emotional the response, like for politics and religion, the more it imprints on our souls, "I am not you."

People who have near death experiences almost universally express how they felt this overwhelming sense of oneness and connectedness while they were on the other side. So much so in fact, that it may be impossible to "become" an individual while existing in Heaven. I have a sneaking suspicion that the main reason we have to live a life in the physical universe so we can learn what it means to be an individual. We are here to become "Un-assimiliated."

Of course, the most emotional and powerful experience anyone will every have is to lose someone they love. Nothing is more emotional than when a loved one dies. I think the reason we aren't allowed to know absolutely for certain that death is an illusion is because death would lose a lot of it's power over us if we knew absolutely for certain that one day we were going to be reunited with our loved ones on the other side. - Art

"If the apparent separateness of subatomic particles is illusory, it means that at a deeper level of reality all things in the universe are infinitely interconnected." - from The Holographic Universe http://www.earthportals.com/hologram.html#zine

from Mark Horton's NDE:
"I suddenly just relaxed completely and allowed "myself" to dissolve (?) open up (?) merge (?) into the "oneness" that surrounded me. The ex- plosion of emotion and (again words are almost useless) over- whelming "love" that I now felt made any previous feelings I had experienced even during this episode, however "long" it had/was/is going on, seem like nothing! I cannot possibly put into words that any human language has that feeling. I was ev- erything, I was nothing. I was everywhere, I was nowhere. I was everywhen, I wasn't. My intellect had expanded to contain every thing, time, place, and even being that was, is, or ever would be! I was unique yet I was the tiniest part of the whole."
http://www.mindspring.com/~scottr/nde/markh.html


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Saw two coyotes walking down my street this morning, no this isn't the beginning of a joke. - 2828
--------------------

They would see Larmer as a tasty snack if they caught him outside.
- Art
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No. of Recommendations: 3
They would see Larmer as a tasty snack if they caught him outside.
- Art
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Unfortunetly for the coyotes they'd have to knock down our front door and look in his favorite closet where he sleeps on a shelf to find him <g>. There are three inches of snow on the ground, Larmers' not much for snow. It'd be nice if the coyotes found that yappy dog next door instead, "Kelsey", he's bigger and has much younger meat.

2828
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No. of Recommendations: 15
What ever happened to rational, thoughtful discourse of issues without having to mindlessly label everyone as "liberal" or "conservative"?

What ever happened to rational, thoughtful discourse of issues without having to mindlessly label the Bush administration as evil?

We've discussed it before, RV, and an honest examination of your posts would indicate a fixation with that particular characterization.
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And where was Johnny Depp?
--------------------------------
IIRC, he hates that sort of stuff. Only shows up if nominated.

arrete
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And where was Johnny Depp?
--------------------------------
IIRC, he hates that sort of stuff. Only shows up if nominated.

arrete


He's definitely one of those selfish I-types. ;-)

1HF
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Why does everyone on this board make "liberal" a dirty word?

Well, the way they imnply it actually CAN be a dirty word. The "Sick Left" I call them. Hillary, Teddy, AL Sharpton,. Jesse Jackson, the usual line-up. They are the Lefty equivalent of The Bush Brigade, Neo-Cons, perhaps The religious Right too. The problem HERE is that anybody who is not in 101% agrement with the House views is simply SLAPPED with the sme Lib Label as the above mentioned political operators. THAT is painting with too broad a brush and is every bit as radical as the people they are attacking


How about thinking of humane, thoughtful, thought provoking, interesting, challenging, or a "different point of view from my own."

They think that's what They are doing.

I haven't seen all the movies yet, and I certainly didn't enjoy or understand much of the pimp song, but I didn't see anyone attempting to force you "to think like they do." Who is "they" anyway? Distinguished directors or actors? Writers? The press?

C'mon now, there really is something called "THEM". Unlike the Libertarians around here people don't jutst walk around bing happilly individul all the time. They LIKE to to choose sides, band together and use their infuence to push their postions. (That's the self interest thing the Capitalists are always peeing their pants over. If it's THEIR interests, it's God's Interest. If it's not, YOU'RE dangerous) And no, you don't need to know their names and addresses. Are "THEY" so fribben dangerous like the other "THEYs' keep saying? Not usually
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OK, I didn't want to watch the Academy Awards but DH (that's dear heart) likes movies and such so I watched it. The host, whose name I forget, did a good job of keeping his hatchet-like anti-Bush wit under control. That's the good news. Then we had several speeches about the evils of DVD's ... um, if you guys gave us decent movies, we'd pay the 10 bucks and not wait for the DVD. But WAIT....the best song of the year....drum roll....."It hard out here for a pimp". They actually performed this piece of trash and it was as bad as it sounds. Of course, all of the songs were pretty bad. Dolly Parton sang one that wasn't great either and included things like God and things....not a chance. </i?

I didn't see as much as you did but I'll agree with the above based on what I did see.

As far as DVDs go.. Don't these assh'les make money off of them anyway?
Part of the deal. 10 million+20% of the gross + after market merchandising, and TV reruns and such. What are they complaining about?

Oh, during one of their "please stop buying DVD's" speeches, they showed clips of movies that "one could only truly enjoy on the big screen".

Maybe drek like Star Wars and other non-movie movies. "The play's the thing" and you don't need a dark room, a big screen, and noisy rude fat people and their ill-behaved half legitimate children ruining the experience for you enjoy the movie

Most were about 10-20 years old. They just don't get it, do they? Every single movie they have discussed during this show had a liberal message. That doesn't bother me as much as the fact that they are proud of it and believe that it is their job to "educate" us and attempt to force us think like they do. Um, I don't even care how hard it is to be a pimp

Just like Conservatives.
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You plopped your butt in front of the tube for three hours and then complain about being forced what to think?
syke


He's not affected because he knows he's smarter than everybody else. He's afraid that the other 280 million Americans will be duped and fall for it. You know those people. The free the brave, the people who will always make the right choices if only they didn't have any government. They listen to the Man in the TV and must obey unless somebody cares enough (a Liberal "thing") to do do something. (Mostly just complain)

280 million individuals, groups banding together in some way, just short of a being a government mind you, or maybe a good strong centralized conservative government regime, somebody has to DO something about it
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Usually every nominated song represents the worst of American pop pap.

I hear you, sister. Awful like American Idol but with more polish.

I was upstairs watching Law & Order reruns while DW watched the awards. I came down after a while just to be neighborly but she wasn't there. I found her way back in the yard using her new plastic wheelbarrow to move rocks. We have lots of rocks, deposited when the ice dam broke and the lake that covered most of Montana spilled over the PNW depositing everything it could pick up along the way. If only we could have stopped global warming 10,000 years ago, we wouldn't have so many darn rocks in our yard.

Anyway, we liked The Constant Gardner quite a lot--Rachel Weisz, best supporting actress, was excellent in it and it was beautifully shot. I recommend it. DW thought Brokeback was a great film, and she hasn't got a politically correct bone in her body (well, maybe her left tibia). I don't like tragic love stories regardless of gender or orientation but may see it because of the scenery. Hustle and Flow (the pimp song) wasn't so good.

The head of the academy looked just like the doctor that Jack convicted of reckless endangerment on the last L&O I saw before coming downstairs.

The gowns were all boring--whatever happened to sequins and bows?

--fleg
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Why does everyone on this board make "liberal" a dirty word?

Its like the joke, 99% of lawyers give the rest a bad name. Nothing wrong with liberal, its just the far left wack jobs that give it a bad name. Just like the far right nut jobs that give conservative a bad name.

Distinguished directors or actors?

Name one. Off the top of my head can't think of any since the era of Alfred Hitchcock and Jimmy Stewart.

Time to make a movie about judgmental people sitting anonymously in their cozy little homes, or horrid rabbit-warren offices writing to the thousands out here on the web...I could envisage a terrific script. ...

Sounds like "Office Space".

JLC


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Hi Evelynk
However, my crush on George Clooney deepened ...
my crush is on JLo

I have no idea what she said... I wish she had presented all the awards :-)
with no separation
ralph
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Please note that I have not labeled Bush as conservative or liberal.

However, given everything he's done wrong so far, it's hard not to label him as something other than "good". Those feelings are only strengthened every time I read or see of yet another wonderful American soldier (or Iraqi civilian, for that matter) dead in the mindless, really stupid conflict he got us into in the name of "hunting down terrorism". All he's done is provide more reasons for more of those people over there to hate US, and he's done precious little to really hunt down terrorism.

But why do we argue about this?

Sorry.

Vermonter
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No. of Recommendations: 5
Please note that I have not labeled Bush as conservative or liberal.

And neither do I as he is neither.

However, given everything he's done wrong so far, it's hard not to label him as something other than "good". Those feelings are only strengthened every time I read or see of yet another wonderful American soldier (or Iraqi civilian, for that matter) dead in the mindless, really stupid conflict he got us into in the name of "hunting down terrorism". All he's done is provide more reasons for more of those people over there to hate US, and he's done precious little to really hunt down terrorism.

But why do we argue about this?


Because you constantly bring it up, even in a thread about the left-leaning-ness or right-leaning-ness of Hollywood. Face it, you have become a Bush-aholic. The first step to a cure is recognizing that you have the problem, and the twelfth step is at the ballot box in 2008 :-)
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All he's done is provide more reasons for more of those people over there to hate US, and he's done precious little to really hunt down terrorism.

But why do we argue about this?
_____________________________________

Because you state your perception as reality. When discussing an action that can only be judged by its' impact years down the road, and making a judgement of that impact now, you put out opinion.

As sure as you want to sound and as certain as you are, it is and will never be more than opinion, until after all the events play out, and we are nowhere near that point.

Additionally you look at a present that would have been drastically different inder different circumstances. You again view that in negative terms, and yet there are other opinions that believe it might have been far different in negative ways both short and long term if not for action.

We argue, because you state an opinion and other people have different opinions. When you make flippant comments of how right you are they are fuel to the fire.
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Distinguished directors or actors?

Name one. Off the top of my head can't think of any since the era of Alfred Hitchcock and Jimmy Stewart.

-----

That's probably the same thing your parents said, only it was Frederick March and Claudette Colbert.

20-30 years from now todays kids will be saying the same thing except it'll be George Clooney and Charlize Theron.






Rich
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tenworlds:
20-30 years from now todays kids will be saying the same thing except it'll be George Clooney and Charlize Theron.


Man, I hope not! <g>

decath
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Bush is neither a liberal or a conservative? He sure seems to suggest that he's the latter!

Face it, you have become a Bush-aholic. The first step to a cure is recognizing that you have the problem, and the twelfth step is at the ballot box in 2008 :-)

Yes, it's true. I and all other Americans have a problem. The problem is George Bush, and, as you say, the ballot box in 2008 may cure the problem, unless we're once again presented with two poor choices, so we end up, once again, with another weak person in the office.

Vemronter
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Um, I don't even care how hard it is to be a pimp.

I don't care how easy it is to be a mindless Fascist drone.
Go peddle your spew elsewhere, Binkie.

*JR*
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The shopvac is on and the dust bunnies are sucking back. <g>

1HF
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my crush is on JLo

I have no idea what she said... I wish she had presented all the awards :-)
with no separation
ralph


I could see that. DH doesn't understand her appeal, but I think she's quite pretty.

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Bush is neither a liberal or a conservative? He sure seems to suggest that he's the latter!

Even someone who was born yesterday knows that a politician will say whatever they need to day to get elected. That's the one thing that transcends party, country, and even political system (and probably even solar system :-).

<<Face it, you have become a Bush-aholic. The first step to a cure is recognizing that you have the problem, and the twelfth step is at the ballot box in 2008 :-)>>

Yes, it's true. I and all other Americans have a problem. The problem is George Bush, and, as you say, the ballot box in 2008 may cure the problem, unless we're once again presented with two poor choices, so we end up, once again, with another weak person in the office.


So you are saying that it is the Democrats and Kerry's fault because they couldn't win. I agree. The fact that the Democrats haven't won anything much lately is truly an indictment of their policies. And when they win womething in 2006 and/or 2008, it likely won't be because they changed their policies to something Americans like, but rather bacause the Republicans mucked things up so badly. Basically, the Democrats aren't going to win, the Republicans are going to lose. How I wish we had a viable third (and even fourth) party!
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The shopvac is on and the dust bunnies are sucking back. <g>

What if the dust bunnies are stronger and smarter than you?

PS: WE ARE!

*JR*
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1hf:
The shopvac is on and the dust bunnies are sucking back. <g>

satiranarchist:
What if the dust bunnies are stronger and smarter than you?

PS: WE ARE!

*JR*


Yep 1hf, your right. Perhaps the baby-sitter stepped out for a moment. <g>

decath
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Yep 1hf, your right. Perhaps the baby-sitter stepped out for a moment. <g>

decath
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Please don't judge all people who went to NIU by the example set by JR or should i say *JR*, for instance, bosslady and i turned out alright.

2828
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Why does everyone on this board make "liberal" a dirty word?

It isn't us.

It's the politicians who claim to be liberals.

I am not real fond of the ones who claim to be conservatives either.

I really wish that I believed a genuine liberal, OR a genuine conservative, could get anywhere in politics.
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>> I really wish that I believed a genuine liberal, OR a genuine conservative, could get anywhere in politics. <<

True. They can call themselves "conservatives" or "liberals," but what they really are, usually, are right-wing authoritarians and left-wing authoritarians.

#29
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I must say that you and mark33 have made me feel better about my avoidance of politics.

arrete
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So you are saying that it is the Democrats and Kerry's fault because they couldn't win. I agree. The fact that the Democrats haven't won anything much lately is truly an indictment of their policies. And when they win womething in 2006 and/or 2008, it likely won't be because they changed their policies to something Americans like, but rather bacause the Republicans mucked things up so badly. Basically, the Democrats aren't going to win, the Republicans are going to lose. How I wish we had a viable third (and even fourth) party!
-----

Maybe it's because they really do represent the many disparate political views of America. Middle America doesn't march in lockstep with the collective mindset of a narrow political ideology. BushCo has been able to capitalize on a few wedge issues to wrest power from moderates, who represent what America is truly about.

Unfortunately, the existing political system is broken. It is nowhere near what our Founding Fathers had intended. This administration has twisted the Constitution into something unrecognizable.

I don't know if it's fixable.






Rich
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[The shopvac is on and the dust bunnies are sucking back. <g>]

What if the dust bunnies are stronger and smarter than you?

Believe me dust bunny, I am not suffering under the delusion that there is anything in the universe that can suck more than you, unless it's your miserable life, but that's obviously self-inflicted. <g> I really don't see how a black hole of irrelevance can ever honestly be called smart though.

1HF
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Yes, it's true. I and all other Americans have a problem. The problem is George Bush

No, that isn't true.

The problem is the political system that couldn't, in multiple tries over many years, come up with a single candidate that is clearly any better than this idiot.
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I don't know if it's fixable.
It is fixable, Rich, if we get rid of the junk.
The junk in a democracy are the fascists. They are just no good. They gum up all the good works.
They are pernicious, though. They do not go kindly.
Patriots have to KILL them.
The Fascists will not leave of their own accord.

Yes, it is hard to be sane and practical.

I am very rational at this point...Fascists will not respond to reason.
Democrats, liberals, patriots, TRUE conservatives, committed Libertarians, Americans, have only one option:

KILL the fascists before they kill you!

*JR*
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<<However, given everything he's done wrong so far, it's hard not to label him as something other than "good". Those feelings are only strengthened every time I read or see of yet another wonderful American soldier (or Iraqi civilian, for that matter) dead in the mindless, really stupid conflict he got us into in the name of "hunting down terrorism". All he's done is provide more reasons for more of those people over there to hate US, and he's done precious little to really hunt down terrorism.

But why do we argue about this?
>>


Because you are carrying on the argument of course.



Seattle Pioneer
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That's probably the same thing your parents said, only it was Frederick March and Claudette Colbert.

20-30 years from now todays kids will be saying the same thing except it'll be George Clooney and Charlize Theron.


IMHO, the best bets would be Tom Hanks and Steven Spielberg. Although Spielberg has done a few duds lately. It is hard for a woman to have lasting power, Hollywood is always looking for the next "it" girl. Charlize Theron might just do it though.

JLC
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Maybe it's because they really do represent the many disparate political views of America. Middle America doesn't march in lockstep with the collective mindset of a narrow political ideology. BushCo has been able to capitalize on a few wedge issues to wrest power from moderates, who represent what America is truly about.

Really? Then how do you explain that each of the Presidency (winner takes all), the Senate (disproportional representation), and the House (proportional representation), are held by the Republicans right now.

Unfortunately, the existing political system is broken. It is nowhere near what our Founding Fathers had intended. This administration has twisted the Constitution into something unrecognizable.

Exactly which part of the "existing political system" do you think was changed by this administration? In fact, the political system is exactly as it was before this administration, and will be the same after this administration has departed. The "system" has been breaking over many years, decades even, and it has nothing to do with one administration that is hardly a blip in the large scheme of things.

I don't know if it's fixable.

We better hope it is!
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warrl:

The problem is the political system that couldn't, in multiple tries over many years, come up with a single candidate that is clearly any better than this idiot.

Finally, common ground!

I agree. As I've said before, the Democrats seem "out of it", too, in that the presidency and many other offices are dangling there for them to seize, but they have yet to come up with a POSITIVE, rational program or alternative, and no really solid candidate that the people can be attracted to! Just being "against" everything doesn't cut it. Neither did Gore or Kerry. Sheesh. How sad is that?

Vermonter
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Maybe it's because they really do represent the many disparate political views of America. Middle America doesn't march in lockstep with the collective mindset of a narrow political ideology. BushCo has been able to capitalize on a few wedge issues to wrest power from moderates, who represent what America is truly about.

Really? Then how do you explain that each of the Presidency (winner takes all), the Senate (disproportional representation), and the House (proportional representation), are held by the Republicans right now.

-----

Comprehension deficit disorder?

Wedge issues<see above>. BushCo got elected on;

1. The gay marriage issue, he promised a Constitutional Amendment (then dropped it). The locked in the Religious Right and the rest of that fringe element.

2. Fear. His machine was able to convince (about half of) an electorate still reeling from 9/11 that 'terrists' were skulking around every corner. His security measures have been shown to be woefully inadequate.

and

3. Manipulation. Illegal redistricting in Texas by DeLay loaded the deck. Election irregularities in Ohio make that state's electoral votes suspect.

Bush is an empty suit, with no conservative credentials, no real political credentials, put out there because he was 'electable' (it's questionable that he has the credentials to even hold public office). He gets in office with a bare majority (51%), then claims he has a 'mandate'? C'mon...

The rest of the Congressional majority rode in on the coattails of the hysteria stirred up by Bush's machine. A machine that has no interest in the future of this country. A machine interested only in lining its own pockets, and the pockets of the already rich, by looting America.




Rich
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<<<Maybe it's because they really do represent the many disparate political views of America. Middle America doesn't march in lockstep with the collective mindset of a narrow political ideology. BushCo has been able to capitalize on a few wedge issues to wrest power from moderates, who represent what America is truly about.>>>

<<Really? Then how do you explain that each of the Presidency (winner takes all), the Senate (disproportional representation), and the House (proportional representation), are held by the Republicans right now.>>
-----

Comprehension deficit disorder?

Wedge issues<see above>. BushCo got elected on;

1. The gay marriage issue, he promised a Constitutional Amendment (then dropped it). The locked in the Religious Right and the rest of that fringe element.


If there were no gay marriage issue, then who do you think the "religious right" would have voted for otherwise? And if it drew some extra folks out from the right side to vote, wouldn't it have also drawn folks from the left that fervently support gay marriage as well?

2. Fear. His machine was able to convince (about half of) an electorate still reeling from 9/11 that 'terrists' were skulking around every corner. His security measures have been shown to be woefully inadequate.

This is completely true, basically Bush and the Republicans put forth that they are "better" on national security. Meanwhile the Democrats put forth "we're not Bush" as the full extent of their national security platform. Besides, the election was in 2004, about 3 years after the 9/11/01 attacks. How much time do you think needs to elapse without a repeat of such an attack until the people aren't fearful of such things anymore?

and

3. Manipulation. Illegal redistricting in Texas by DeLay loaded the deck. Election irregularities in Ohio make that state's electoral votes suspect.


Yeah, and Gore won in 2000, and Diebold determines the results of all elections.

Illegal redistricting? When Democrats are in power, they do similar things. Besides, the Republicans gained 5 House seats in TX, hardly the reason for their majority. And the Democrats are the princes of election irregularities.

Bush is an empty suit, with no conservative credentials, no real political credentials, put out there because he was 'electable' (it's questionable that he has the credentials to even hold public office). He gets in office with a bare majority (51%), then claims he has a 'mandate'? C'mon...

"Conservative credentials" ha! Bush is no more conservative than Pat Buchanan is liberal. Mandate, my a$$; the only reason Bush won is because Kerry and the Democrat platform (primarily "we're not Bush") were such weak contenders. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like the Democrats are improving themselves, the best we can hope for is that the Republicans screw it up and at least lose one house in the legislature.

The rest of the Congressional majority rode in on the coattails of the hysteria stirred up by Bush's machine. A machine that has no interest in the future of this country. A machine interested only in lining its own pockets, and the pockets of the already rich, by looting America.

I always wonder if people truly believe this kind of hysterical tripe. It no wonder that no civil political discourse can take place when people (such as you) are so unreasonable as to not even consider the possibility that the opposition are patriots just as you are, but simply have different viewpoints and reach different conclusions about how to improve our country. They may often be wrong, and they may often support bad policy, but their (the Republicans) raison d'etre is not "lining it's own pockets", "the rich", and "looting America". Just as the raison d'etre of the left (the Democrats) isn't to "create a welfare state", "get as many people as possible dependant on government", and "to gut national defense". Each are patriots in their own way, and each truly believe that their proposed policies will improve the country. Sure there are opportunistic politicians out there, and even a bunch of crooked ones, but by and large this isn't the case for the entire hierarchy, especially the upper echelon.
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3. Manipulation. Illegal redistricting in Texas by DeLay loaded the deck.

Nothing illegal, to the victors go the spoils. There is no law that states how frequently you can redistrict, IIRC. Traditionally its been after each census because that's when states lose or gain seats in Congress. FWIW, the Supreme Court is about to decide.

IMHO, what is illegal is the ridiculous gerrymandering, done by both sides. A district 10 miles wide and 200 miles long can't be representative of anything.

JLC
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>> IMHO, what is illegal is the ridiculous gerrymandering, done by both sides. A district 10 miles wide and 200 miles long can't be representative of anything. <<

Wrong.

It's representative of a party in power which is seeking to gain more seats in Congress.

#29
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tenworlds:
Bush is an empty suit, with no conservative credentials, no real political credentials, put out there because he was 'electable' (it's questionable that he has the credentials to even hold public office). He gets in office with a bare majority (51%), then claims he has a 'mandate'? C'mon...

The rest of the Congressional majority rode in on the coattails of the hysteria stirred up by Bush's machine. A machine that has no interest in the future of this country. A machine interested only in lining its own pockets, and the pockets of the already rich, by looting America.


You might as well spare us the rhetoric that sounds like it came from the moveon.org people. We've gone over this stuff over and over on the REHP board. We can debate a lot of Bush's failures but when you start spouting this dribble, you've already lossed.

Bush stole the election.

Bush blew up the NO levees.

George Bush doesn't like black people.

Bush only cares about oil company profits.

Really! C'mon...

decath (waiting for the pigdog fascist neo-con classification)
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>> Bush stole the election. <<

The sad thing is that the people who foam at the mouth about this "stolen election" aren't up in arms about the governor of Washington. If Bush stole the election in 2000, then Gregoire certainly did in 2004.

Why the double standard? Why it is so contemptible in one instance and worthy of ignoring in the other? Hmmm, I wonder....

#29
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