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Author: Watashi13 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 531  
Subject: Job Search: Sell your town Date: 9/21/2006 12:27 PM
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Hey Hoosiers,

With my wife in her final year of residency, we are once again looking for a place to settle in the lower 48 states. We hope that this move will be permanent. This is your chance to add two hard workers* and two gifted children to your community. Please tell us why we should move to your town.

My dream home would be Boulder, Colorado; hers would be New York City. Our current search list, which changes often, includes St Louis; Kansas City; Bloomington, Indiana; Eugene, Oregon; and North Texas. We both like what little we know about the West Coast and the Mid-Atlantic states.

Here are our criteria, in order of importance:

1. Jobs: A medical center with challenging job opportunities in Anesthesia.

2. Schools: Good public or secular private schools.

3. Religion: We would not want to attempt to raise a family in a neighborhood dominated by social conservatives. This eliminates Utah and the smaller towns in the South and the Midwest.

4. Culture: Asian culture in the city or within easy driving distance is a definite plus. We like college towns for diversity and culture. We do not want to live in a place where English is the second language. This eliminates Miami and San Antonio.

5. Weather: My wife would like winters no more severe than those in Iowa, for example. This disadvantages the Rocky Mountain states, the Dakotas, Minnesota, Wisconsin, and inland New England.

6. Traffic: Reasonable drive times or access to public transportation. This eliminates Los Angeles and Houston, for me at least.

Any feedback, positive or negative, will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance,

-Wes

*In all honesty, the phrase “two hard workers” counts my wife as 1.5 hard workers and myself as 0.5 of a hard worker!
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Author: feedmeNOWhuman Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 424 of 531
Subject: Re: Job Search: Sell your town Date: 9/21/2006 3:28 PM
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Disclaimer: I also answered the Arizona board, having moved from Indiana to Phoenix in 1992.


1. Jobs: A medical center with challenging job opportunities in Anesthesia.


Indy has as many hospitals as you'd expect in a city of that size.


2. Schools: Good public or secular private schools.


Indianapolis Public Schools have typically had funding and other issues (though the city seems to have money to build a new football dome), and I've never really seen much that is positive about them. On the other hand, Indianapolis is surrounded by lots of nice suburbs with good schools. In general, the city is ringed by a beltway called 465, which is a 40 mile loop. Several interstates cross it as they pass through the city. I-70, I-65, I-74. The city layout is very well designed, as it was planned in advance, rather than made up as it grew. You can jump on an interstate or onto 465 and get where you want to go pretty quick. I'm told traffic is getting worse, as it is everywhere.



3. Religion: We would not want to attempt to raise a family in a neighborhood dominated by social conservatives. This eliminates Utah and the smaller towns in the South and the Midwest.


To be frank, I left Indiana because I was sick of snow, sick of cornfields, and sick of rednecks in overalls. The scene at Bob's Country Bunker in the Blues Brothers takes place in Indiana, and it's not as much of an exaggeration as you might think. When I left, the most popular radio DJ's were Bob & Tom of WFBQ 94.7, who spent most of their time making gay jokes aimed at rednecks and high school kids. I believe they have elected Democrat governors in the recent past, for what that's worth.


4. Culture: Asian culture in the city or within easy driving distance is a definite plus. We like college towns for diversity and culture. We do not want to live in a place where English is the second language. This eliminates Miami and San Antonio.


Culture in Indiana? Well, you've got the 500 Mile Race :-) But English is the primary language, that's for sure. The hippest part of town is the northeast side, called Broad Ripple, more of a college town vibe. Also seek out the Slippery Noodle bar downtown. As for colleges, there are a million of them in Indiana. I.U. in Bloomington, 40 minutes south of Indy; Purdue, an hour north in Lafayette; Ball State in nearby Muncie; U of Evansville at the bottom of the state, Notre Dame up north, the famous Rose Hulman Institute of Technology and Indiana State U (both in Terre haute on the western edge of the state), plus Depaw U, Franklin college, U of Indianapolis, Butler U, I.U.P.U.I (IU-Purdue at Indy) and several others all in the Indianapolis area. If it's a college town you want, you're in luck.



5. Weather: My wife would like winters no more severe than those in Iowa, for example. This disadvantages the Rocky Mountain states, the Dakotas, Minnesota, Wisconsin, and inland New England.


Prolly about the same as Iowa. Which is way too cold for me, but not as bad as Denver, I'm sure.


6. Traffic: Reasonable drive times or access to public transportation. This eliminates Los Angeles and Houston, for me at least.


If traffic is moving, you can get where you're going pretty fast. I hear it's getting worse, but you'll have to check with someone who has spent more time there recently.


Sorry to Hoosiers if this post seems like a slam. But I moved out of Indiana as soon as I was able, and haven't looked back since then. I know some people who are happy living there, but I just wasn't one of them.

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Author: epona4 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 425 of 531
Subject: Re: Job Search: Sell your town Date: 9/21/2006 4:37 PM
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Wes,

Hmmm..not sure I'll be able to "sell you on it".

We moved from Chicagoland to the Indy area. We do not regret it. But I don't know that this is our forever home, either. (it's most certainly our "Until the older kids graduate" home. (maybe the younger ones, too)


This is not going to be in any particular order. Just random thoughts as I think of them. (we live a bit east of Indy.)

Weather, it's Indiana. Ya don't like, wait five minutes, it'll change. Winter is not too bad. Actually, not enough snow for me. :)

Tornados about the same as St. Louis. Maybe even a bit more. (however this year was bad for them)

Churches...OMG! One on every corner. However, Indy does have several U.U.s

Rednecks...we got'em.

Land, a bit flat.

Traffic, we came from the Chicago area. There is no traffic here.

A bit too conservative, but not awful.

A lot of hospitals.

Some good restaraunts. Sushi. (I discovered that I really like sushi after we moved here)

I think I'd like Bloomington more. Much prettier. Much more liberal. Less snow than Indy, but I think I could live with that. They have hills and more trees. :) Not sure about hospitals. Artist colony not far. (Nashville Indiana I think)

One of the things my DD 1 loves to say. "Indiana, it's not just for corn anymore. We've got soybeans, too."

Yeah, the more I add to this, the less appealing I think it probably sounds to the "normal" person. :) I love the snow, the cornfields, the cows and small towns. Yet I hate the small minds, the bible thumping and lack of hills. And oh yeah. NOT HAVING A REAL BOOK STORE WITHIN A 25 MINUTE DRIVE!! (not that I'm bitter)

However, on the northeast side of town there are some really nice 'burbs. Lots of nice malls. A great outdoor concert facility. (Phish fans know it as DeerCreek. Now the Verizon Wireless Center) I think downtown Indy is really pretty.Love the Circle. It's a big city without being overwhelming. (Chicago was just too much for me) A beautiful opera house. A wonderful City Choir for the children. (Indianapolis Childrens Choir. It is really quite amazing) A nice Zoo, WONDEFUl Childrens Musuem. A very active SCA group. (Renaissance/Middle Ages reenactment group. Yes, nerdy...but fun!) :) And of course the Pacers, Colts and the racing.

Hope that helped in some way. :)
b

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Author: feedmeNOWhuman Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 426 of 531
Subject: Re: Job Search: Sell your town Date: 9/21/2006 5:25 PM
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Weather, it's Indiana. Ya don't like, wait five minutes, it'll change. Winter is not too bad. Actually, not enough snow for me.


Good God, winter lasts nine months in Indiana. Nine months with nothing but grey skies. It's cold and rainy from September thru November, then cold and snowy from December thru March, then cold and rainy from April thru May. June/July/Aug, it's hot and humid. I'm fine if I never see snow again!

I think I'd like Bloomington more. Much prettier.


Yes. You might check out the outer-lying college towns if you consider Indiana. West Lafayette (Wabash Valley) for Purdue. Heh, you were looking for Asian culture; it's worth noting that there is a huge contingent of Asian students at Purdue studying science and engineering. IU might be the same. Lafayette (home of Axel Rose), while a pleasant enough city, is next to the college town of West Lafayette. Two different cities. Outside of the Purdue students and staff, you've got mainly farmers and people who work at the nearby car factories, who have a small town mentality and try to keep their distance from the rowdy college town of West Lafayette. I believe Lafayette was voted one of the more livable cities in the US a few years ago. At any rate, Bloomington and Lafayette are quite different from Indy proper and merit a look if you're considering Indiana.


A great outdoor concert facility. (Phish fans know it as DeerCreek.



Yes, it was called Deer Creek for a long time. I saw plenty of shows there before I moved. When it was being built, some locals wanted a noise level limit placed on the facility so as not to scare the pigs at the nearby farms. Someone took a decibel meter into the public library and found that the library's ambient noise was louder than the proposed noise limit for Deer Creek. True story. At any rate, it's a typical concert shed that you find in most cities. Market Square Arena, where I saw my first concert and also where Elvis played his last gig, was blown up a few years back, unfortunately. The Hoosier Dome (Colts), built only 20 years ago, is slated to be torn down, too, so as to make a newer dome for the richer sports fans. Taxes were raised in order to fund this new dome, but they are also laying off teachers and firemen, which shows a distinct lack of priorities. My dad, who still lives near Indy, is just livid about the whole thing.


A nice Zoo, WONDEFUl Childrens Musuem.


Yup. Yup.



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Author: epona4 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 427 of 531
Subject: Re: Job Search: Sell your town Date: 9/22/2006 6:50 AM
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Good God, winter lasts nine months in Indiana. Nine months with nothing but grey skies. It's cold and rainy from September thru November, then cold and snowy from December thru March, then cold and rainy from April thru May. June/July/Aug, it's hot and humid. I'm fine if I never see snow again!

No, not 24/7 rain, grey, snow, yuck. It is winter in the midwest. It is not winter in Seatle. (of course if you asked me what the weather is like right now...I'd have to say "Rain. Rain till Monday." ;)

Colts stadium...I agree with your Dad. I'm pretty pissed about the whole thing. I don't even live in Marion county and OUR taxes (restaraunt tax) went up! WTF? I am mad that *WE* have to help pay for the damn thing and didn't get to vote on it!! Jack up the cost of the tickets, jack up the cost of the already overly priced hotdogs and beer, but don't tax people who are not even going to USE the damn thing. ESP. if you are not going to take care of your schools!

ok...rant over...

b

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Author: feedmeNOWhuman Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 428 of 531
Subject: Re: Job Search: Sell your town Date: 9/22/2006 12:56 PM
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I don't even live in Marion county and OUR taxes (restaraunt tax) went up! WTF? I am mad that *WE* have to help pay for the damn thing and didn't get to vote on it!!


From what I understand, it was a regional tax proposed on the counties that surround Marion. If passed, the county governments would get to keep a cut for themselves, which amounted to a bribe to the county politicians to pass the tax. According to my dad, Monroe county was the only one not to pass it. So your blame should go squarely on the shoulders of your local politicians who passed the regional tax.

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Author: epona4 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 429 of 531
Subject: Re: Job Search: Sell your town Date: 9/22/2006 1:38 PM
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From what I understand, it was a regional tax proposed on the counties that surround Marion. If passed, the county governments would get to keep a cut for themselves, which amounted to a bribe to the county politicians to pass the tax. According to my dad, Monroe county was the only one not to pass it. So your blame should go squarely on the shoulders of your local politicians who passed the regional tax.

I had remembered that there was one county that held out. I just remember when I read about it, I was so mad at the county officials. (I have some issues with stuff that goes on in our county as it is. This just added to it!)

But I remember the same thing happening in the Cinci areal. We lived in Clermont County and when the Bengles got their new stadium, (or was it the reds?) Anyway, some of our taxes went up.

Hmmm...I wonder if their are sports teams in Maine?

b

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Author: Jim2B Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 430 of 531
Subject: Re: Job Search: Sell your town Date: 9/23/2006 1:21 PM
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Indianapolis Public Schools have typically had funding and other issues (though the city seems to have money to build a new football dome), and I've never really seen much that is positive about them. On the other hand, Indianapolis is surrounded by lots of nice suburbs with good schools.

The problems with the Indianapolis Public Schools are the same as they are in any large city. Since the OP didn't ask about Indianapolis Public Schools, I think it's very misleading to post about those problems.

Good God, winter lasts nine months in Indiana. Nine months with nothing but grey skies. It's cold and rainy from September thru November, then cold and snowy from December thru March, then cold and rainy from April thru May. June/July/Aug, it's hot and humid. I'm fine if I never see snow again!

Weather in Indiana is typical for that of the mid-West in general. It is NOT winter for 9 months of the year. In fact his comment is ridiculous!

FMNH certainly has a negative perspective on the area! I think his inherent hatred of the area shines through the general comments.

I'm epona's DH and I've lived in a couple of different areas (including a year in central Texas and several years in the Chicagoland area). As in every place you live there are big plusses and minuses to living here.

If the OP has lived in Iowa, then they already have a good handle on the weather (I suspect it's a bit wetter and the temperatures are a bit more moderate here though).

Bloomington is a small college town south of Indianapolis by about an hour. It's hiller, more wooded, more liberal, and quainter than Indianapolis or even Indiana in general. I assume there's less shopping and entertainment opportunities than Indianapolis too. I do not know the crime rate there either.

On a recent trip to Boston we discussed the relative merits of our parts of the country. Everyone from the Boston area extolled its virtues. However, I discovered all of the virtues that they quoted are ones in which I have no interest (summers on Cape Cod, eating in restaurants downtown, etc.). I extolled the virtues of our area (little traffic, cheap land, low taxes, etc.). The Bostonites were ALL very interested in these virtues. The question remains whether they'd be willing to trade their summer vacations on Cap Code in order to pay less in taxes (for example).

From this experience I have to say that everyone should figure out what characteristics are important to them (beyond the typical requests about schools systems et al) and then try to find a match in the areas they're considering.

If you enjoy the hustle and bustle of big city life, then rural Indiana is NOT for you. If you enjoy the fine and performing arts, then rural Indiana is not for you. If you like lower population densities, cheap land, and low taxes; rural Indiana might be something you should consider.

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Author: feedmeNOWhuman Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 431 of 531
Subject: Re: Job Search: Sell your town Date: 9/23/2006 3:33 PM
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The problems with the Indianapolis Public Schools are the same as they are in any large city. Since the OP didn't ask about Indianapolis Public Schools, I think it's very misleading to post about those problems.


Was I inaccurate? Did I fail to mention the surrounding districts?


Weather in Indiana is typical for that of the mid-West in general. It is NOT winter for 9 months of the year.


Continuous grey skies and temperatures of 40° or less counts as winter to me. I made my final decision to leave in mid-March of '92. It had seemingly thawed out finally, and we had nice weather for a couple of days. Then it snowed another foot, and I had to get up an hour early to limp to work at 25 mph. I think it was still about 40° at the Indy 500 at the end of May around that year.

Living in Phoenix, I don't even own a pair of gloves. I'm content never to see piles of brown sludge piled in the streets for months at a time. 110° for three months is a small price to pay, but to each his own.




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Author: epona4 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 432 of 531
Subject: Re: Job Search: Sell your town Date: 9/23/2006 6:52 PM
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Continuous grey skies and temperatures of 40° or less counts as winter to me. I made my final decision to leave in mid-March of '92. It had seemingly thawed out finally, and we had nice weather for a couple of days. Then it snowed another foot, and I had to get up an hour early to limp to work at 25 mph. I think it was still about 40° at the Indy 500 at the end of May around that year.

Maybe it's changed in the last 15 years. We haven't experinced that. Sure there are grey skies, but they are far from continuous...and by Late March/early April temps are well into the 50s or more. (yes, I'm sure you're laughing at us) ;) Sure, there's an occational exception, but it's not the norm. But then, from what I gather, temps have been rising anyway. We both grew up in Dayton, Ohio...the weather there is pretty much the exact same as Indy. I remember winters being a lot colder and a lot more snow than there is now.

Living in Phoenix, I don't even own a pair of gloves. I'm content never to see piles of brown sludge piled in the streets for months at a time. 110° for three months is a small price to pay, but to each his own.

Honestly, *I* would probably benifit greatly from living someplace like Phoenix, from the perspective of the whole "SAD" thing. But I just can't imagin living someplace without 4 seasons and big old trees and lots of green. (then there's the issue of the snakes, spiders and bugs. I'm a wuss)

I'm betting my sinus issues would be better out there, too.

On the LBYM board someone was asking "when" they should turn their heat on. I said that the "cold" doesn't bother me. I can keep the heat turned down in the winter...but in the summer, I gotta have that central air on! If it gets over 80 I am not happy. (I understand it's a different heat out there.) For me, I'd be thrilled if it never got about 70.

Brown sludge...ya got me there. It's not a pretty site. Luckily, I'm far enough out in the country that when it snows, I see fields covered in white. Not brown sludge covered steets.

b



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Author: feedmeNOWhuman Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 433 of 531
Subject: Re: Job Search: Sell your town Date: 9/23/2006 7:32 PM
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Maybe it's changed in the last 15 years.


Global warming, you know.

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Author: epona4 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 434 of 531
Subject: Re: Job Search: Sell your town Date: 9/23/2006 7:41 PM
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Global warming, you know.

D@mn! I'm gonna have to move to Alaska in the NEXT 15 years!! ;)



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Author: cgrinder Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 435 of 531
Subject: Re: Job Search: Sell your town Date: 9/25/2006 4:59 AM
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sell my town!!!!!!!
plymouth indiana, population 10,000, within 2 miles 17,000.
a very modern small hospital. it is building a cardio unit and has a cancer unit. the chief surgion is john hopkins trained. he took my appendix out 5 months ago.
we are located at the intersection of us30 and us31.
culver military academy is located 20 minutes away. it is not uncommon to see george steinbrenner or sen. john mccain on campus. both are graduates.
plymouth public schools are modern with excellant facilities.
we have a junior college 12 miles away.
south bend is 25 minutes away.
it has notre dame, indiana university at south bend, ivy tech college, bethel college and several tech colleges.
south bend is 30 minutes straight north.
indianapolis is 2 hours.
ft wayne indiana is 75 minutes.
chicago is 2 hours away
detroit is 3 1/2 hours
cleveland is 4 hours
the south bend, mishawaka area is in the process of building a brand new hospital.
google plymouth indiana, marshall county indiana, etc,.
housing prices are still pretty cheap here.





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