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Author: jwiest Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 1976126  
Subject: Jobs over debates Date: 10/5/2012 9:44 AM
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I'll take jobs over debates:

http://economywatch.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/10/05/14240541-un...

The Labor Department reported Friday that the unemployment rate fell to 7.8 percent in September, a decline of 0.3 percentage point and the lowest since January 2009. The government said the economy created 114,000 jobs, about as expected, and generated 86,000 more jobs in July and August than first estimated.

The US was hemorrhaging over half a million jobs per month when Obama took office. Though the stimulus would have worked faster if the Repuglicans hadn't sabotaged it, things are slowly shaping up. Now all we need is to let the Bush tax cuts expire and we're good to go.*

Screw the debates, I prefer Obama's known path to Romney's indecipherable and mercurial one. Besides, if we wanted debates to be meaningful, we'd make them audio only, not the ridiculous politi-tainment they've become.


---------------------------------
* cue some idiot telling us raising taxes will crush job creation...even though if that were true we'd already be awash in jobs
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Author: SGIZ1 Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1821375 of 1976126
Subject: Re: Jobs over debates Date: 10/5/2012 9:54 AM
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"* cue some idiot telling us raising taxes will crush job creation...even though if that were true we'd already be awash in jobs "

So we can tax businesses 100% and it won't kill jobs? awesome!

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Author: jwiest Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1821378 of 1976126
Subject: Re: Jobs over debates Date: 10/5/2012 10:04 AM
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So we can tax businesses 100% and it won't kill jobs? awesome!

So we can tax nothing and still have defense, police, firemen, roads, and libraries? Awesome!

Seriously, what kind of extremist are you?

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Author: SGIZ1 Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1821388 of 1976126
Subject: Re: Jobs over debates Date: 10/5/2012 10:25 AM
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"So we can tax nothing and still have defense, police, firemen, roads, and libraries? Awesome!

Seriously, what kind of extremist are you? "

extremist? no
realist? very mush so

every single % point you raise taxes hurts growth in the private sector to some degree as that's less money in the owners/investers/businesses pocket to spend/invest/grow/hire/etc.

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Author: saunafool Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1821393 of 1976126
Subject: Re: Jobs over debates Date: 10/5/2012 10:44 AM
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every single % point you raise taxes hurts growth in the private sector to some degree as that's less money in the owners/investers/businesses pocket to spend/invest/grow/hire/etc.

Then why does every study that tries to determine the correlation between tax rates and growth determine that there is no correlation.

There have been periods of

high taxes and high growth
high taxes and low growth
low taxes and low growth
low taxes and high growth

Seriously, prove that every singe % point hurts growth with facts.

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Author: jwiest Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1821398 of 1976126
Subject: Re: Jobs over debates Date: 10/5/2012 10:54 AM
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every single % point you raise taxes hurts growth in the private sector to some degree as that's less money in the owners/investers/businesses pocket to spend/invest/grow/hire/etc.

...and this has been proven false, repeatedly. Why did the Bush years see such economic stagnation? It's a rhetorical question, because I know you are incapable of changing your rigid ideology.

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Author: Jeanwa Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1821404 of 1976126
Subject: Re: Jobs over debates Date: 10/5/2012 11:05 AM
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every single % point you raise taxes hurts growth in the private sector to some degree as that's less money in the owners/investers/businesses pocket to spend/invest/grow/hire/etc.
========================

No, no it's not. If I'm taxed at a 50% rate, I'm more likely to grow the business. That growth is tax deductable, that means the gov is picking up part of the tab.

Lower the rate to 20% I'm more likely just to take the money for me.

That said, it's the inconsistancy that is hampering business. Should I buy this year while the rates are high, if they are going to be lower next year? Are they going up next year, so I should wait to buy then.

Capital gains tax is a good example. When the rate dropped there were lots of stock sales to lock in the lower tax rate on the gains. Then buy backs for a higher basis.

If it looks like the rate is going to go up I think you would see that same action again. People would lock in any gain at the lower rate.

Jean

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Author: SGIZ1 Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1821417 of 1976126
Subject: Re: Jobs over debates Date: 10/5/2012 11:50 AM
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I have to ask why the left has such a problem with understanding dynamics?

You guys view everything as static

YOu can have high taxes and high growth (but the growth would be higher during that time if taxes were lower,etc.) its all about snapshots in time, the dynamics of the moment/market/etc.

Fact is good times or bad times, growth is reduced by every % point higher the tax rate is.

If you had 39% tax rates and 5% growth, if taxes were 36% that growth would have been 5.5%, its dynamics. On the flip side you can have 20% tax rates and 1.3% growth, lowering it to 15% could/would increase growth, maybe to 1.8%.

But to view it static and say Clinton years we had x tax rates and growth was Y = higher tax rates = better growth is as dumb as it gets.

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Author: lowstudent Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1821421 of 1976126
Subject: Re: Jobs over debates Date: 10/5/2012 11:53 AM
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But to view it static and say Clinton years we had x tax rates and growth was Y = higher tax rates = better growth is as dumb as it gets.

_______________________

Not that I fault you, but you've obviously never tried to listen to Joe Biden<grin>

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Author: Rightime Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1821424 of 1976126
Subject: Re: Jobs over debates Date: 10/5/2012 12:01 PM
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Fact is good times or bad times, growth is reduced by every % point higher the tax rate is.


The Problem is, for people like you, "facts" are just things you pull out of your butt.

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Author: SGIZ1 Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1821429 of 1976126
Subject: Re: Jobs over debates Date: 10/5/2012 12:10 PM
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"Fact is good times or bad times, growth is reduced by every % point higher the tax rate is.

The Problem is, for people like you, "facts" are just things you pull out of your butt. "

Let me dumb it down for you

If you more money in your pocket/bank account vs. having less money in your pocket/bank account, which scenario will be more likely you can buy more stuff? spend more money? rennovate your home? hire a lawn service to cut and landscape your yard? Go out to eat and tip your servers?

Its the exact same dynamic, replace you with "company x" who may want to buy new equipment, more supplies, hire more workers, increase benefits to workers, offer perks to workers, expand their business, etc.

dynamics include things like certainty/uncertainty as well, nothing static about this at all.

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Author: Rightime Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1821442 of 1976126
Subject: Re: Jobs over debates Date: 10/5/2012 12:41 PM
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If you more money in your pocket/bank account vs. having less money in your pocket/bank account, which scenario will be more likely you can buy more stuff? spend more money? rennovate your home? hire a lawn service to cut and landscape your yard? Go out to eat and tip your servers?


1/3 of the Stimulus package was a giant tax cut, mostly for the middle class. Taxes in the past six years, have been lower than the previous fifteen years.
Jobs, not so much.

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Author: jwiest Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1821469 of 1976126
Subject: Re: Jobs over debates Date: 10/5/2012 1:41 PM
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If you more money in your pocket/bank account vs. having less money in your pocket/bank account, which scenario will be more likely you can buy more stuff?

This only works for the middle class and below. Above that, the extra is banked anyway.

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Author: SGIZ1 Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1821483 of 1976126
Subject: Re: Jobs over debates Date: 10/5/2012 2:07 PM
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"This only works for the middle class and below. Above that, the extra is banked anyway. "

90% of small business is owned by middle/upper middle class folks, extra money to small business is a big deal. Its a shame libs lump small business in with big business.

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Author: jwiest Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1821505 of 1976126
Subject: Re: Jobs over debates Date: 10/5/2012 2:48 PM
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"This only works for the middle class and below. Above that, the extra is banked anyway. "

90% of small business is owned by middle/upper middle class folks, extra money to small business is a big deal. Its a shame libs lump small business in with big business.


Right, so why is raising the top tax rate a big deal? Less than 1% of small businesses would be affected.

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