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Author: PWT58 Three stars, 500 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 1113  
Subject: Re: she asked me to pray Date: 4/3/2005 4:44 PM
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Ken


By way of disclose let me say that I am a Christian, I am NOT a Roman Catholic and I do NOT pray to saints. That being said, i understand why Roman Catholics (among others) do. First of all they are not worshiping the saints (specifically Mary), but asking them to intercede on their behalf. This is no different than you asking someone to pray for you. While I understand the alternate perspective, there is scriptural evidence that the saints are in Gods presence immediately after death.

1. Jesus response to the thief on the cross.

2. The cloud of witnesses that surrounds us according to Heb 12.1

Now the saints may or may not be in a position to hear or respond, but rest assured Catholics are not worshipping the saints.

This the second time in less than 2 weeks that have acted as if there was one monolithic version of Christianity and you just happen to have it all correct. In keeping with the tone of this board I chose not to respond to your first blunder. But with this one I must object.

The notion that there ever was a single version of Christianity (except as it was achieved at the end of sword) is revisionist history. According to Eastern Orthodox tradition, John was the first gospel and the most accurate historically, yet western tradition asserts that it was the last of the gospels. Ignatius of Antioch only included Matthew and Luke in his canon, while Polycarp of Smyrna included all 3 synoptic gospels but not John. http://www.ntcanon.org/table.shtml As I have noted previously the early church was uniformly pacifist, with Augustine first proposing a just war theory, and the debate over pacifism has existed within the church ever since. Many of the early church fathers supported a literal reading of the OT, yet according the Origen, the true reading of the OT was primarily symbolic. From the very beginning, there has been a wide diversity of views concerning the atonement, with the currently popular view of the satisfaction or substitution theory of atonement first proposed by St. Anslem around 1000 CE and then expanded upon by John Calvin. Long before there were Anabaptists, there were the Waldensians http://www.scrollpublishing.com/store/Waldensians.html. Look at the difference between Erasmus and Luther in how they approached problems within the Roman Catholic Church. Both of them recognized huge problems within the RC Church, both theologically and morally. Yet one chose to leave the church, and one chose to work within the church. Along with a diverse reading of theology comes a diverse reading of how to live out that theology. While I try to hold all traditions with great respect, I do not consider any of them infallible, and recognize that many competing traditions that disagree with each other have helped people in their faith.

It is not your position that bothers me as much as the condescension you display to those who disagree with you.

Thanks

Paul
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