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Author: HuffyLilPoon Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 78  
Subject: Last night Date: 6/14/2004 11:32 AM
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It's about time 6FU came back. Good episode last night, though I'd not say it was one of their strongest:

-Ewwwwwwwww! to the old folks having noisy sex. There's just no reason for that. Do what you've got to do, I just don't want to hear it.
-Train Wreck Nate™ is seriously getting on my nerves. Claire nailed it with "When do *I* get to have a breakdown?" It's especially bugging me he was with Lisa. She was an evil skank back in the day, but she's trying to make it up to him now and he's being a complete @ss. I'm glad she's not dropping the cute neighbor guy for Nate. She seems to be finally getting it together.
-Rico and his stripper habit-huh? Seems way out of character to me. Loved him racing through the act of contrition and his expression when Vanessa finally stood up to the harpy sister-like a kid on Christmas.
-I love David. He was so deadpan and proper when dealing with the warring families and the coroner babbling away about floaters. I disliked him intensely at the beginning of the series, but he's really grown into being one of my favorites.
-Properly, Lisa's family was as annoying and off-base as she was. I'm so glad she's gone. It was nice that Nate buried her according to her wishes, down to removing the tarp-ugh.

I'm glad that the new season has finally started.

HLP
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Author: HuffyLilPoon Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 3 of 78
Subject: Re: Last night Date: 6/14/2004 11:33 AM
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It's especially bugging me he was with Lisa. She was an evil skank back in the day, but she's trying to make it up to him now and he's being a complete @ss. I'm glad she's not dropping the cute neighbor guy for Nate. She seems to be finally getting it together.

Sorry, had Lisa on the brain. I was referring to Brenda with this passage.

HLP


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Author: WasPokey Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 4 of 78
Subject: Re: Last night Date: 6/14/2004 11:36 AM
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-Train Wreck Nate™ is seriously getting on my nerves.

Ditto on this -- so tired of him.

I didn't see the entire episode, so I'll have to chime in later this week.

I'm glad it's back too!!!!

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Author: alchook Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 5 of 78
Subject: Re: Last night Date: 6/14/2004 11:43 AM
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Rico and his stripper habit-huh?

The one really good line of the night.

Rico: “I'm going straight home.”

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Author: sofaking6 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 6 of 78
Subject: Re: Last night Date: 6/14/2004 5:23 PM
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-Train Wreck Nate™ is seriously getting on my nerves.


We hate Nate.

6

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Author: sofaking6 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 7 of 78
Subject: Re: Last night Date: 6/14/2004 5:47 PM
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I hate Nate even more, because when he was burying half-Lisa I thought, that's the first unselfish thing he's done since the show started. But then he did that weird screaming stuff afterwards and it was stupid again.

6

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Author: HuffyLilPoon Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 8 of 78
Subject: Re: Last night Date: 6/15/2004 11:15 AM
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I hate Nate even more, because when he was burying half-Lisa I thought, that's the first unselfish thing he's done since the show started. But then he did that weird screaming stuff afterwards and it was stupid again.

Because it's ALL ABOUT HIM, don'tchaknow. Which I find odd, because in the first season or two, Nate was the most sympathetic and most likely to see the other person's POV. Ironically, the all about me thing came about when Lisa got pregnant. Is Alan Ball trying to give us warning sign? ;)

On a different note, it's really interesting to me how they've switched the characters around. It used to be Brenda who was utterly self-centered and acting out a lot, now it's Nate. It used to be Nate who was the family caretaker, now it's David. It used to be Ruth trying ineffectually to relate to the kids, now it's the new husband. It used to be Brenda having all of the wacky sex, now it's Ruth. It used to be Nate who was the normal person just trying to get through the day, now it's Brenda, or David. It used to be Brenda and Nate as the messed up couple who can't live without each other, now it's David and Keith. Etc., etc., etc. I don't agree with all of the choices they've made, but it's been interesting TV nonetheless.

HLP

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Author: sofaking6 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9 of 78
Subject: Re: Last night Date: 6/15/2004 12:09 PM
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Because it's ALL ABOUT HIM, don'tchaknow. Which I find odd, because in the first season or two, Nate was the most sympathetic and most likely to see the other person's POV. Ironically, the all about me thing came about when Lisa got pregnant. Is Alan Ball trying to give us warning sign? ;)

I've got to like the moral, if it's that doing things to make other people happy will drive you nuts.

6

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Author: swimdad Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 10 of 78
Subject: Re: Last night Date: 6/16/2004 10:47 AM
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-Ewwwwwwwww! to the old folks having noisy sex. There's just no reason for that. Do what you've got to do, I just don't want to hear it.

I'm with you. I'm always telling swimmom to pipe down.

swimdad

P.S. Nate should've gotten a couple of stitches in his nose.


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Author: MargaretHoulihan Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 11 of 78
Subject: Re: Last night Date: 6/16/2004 2:18 PM
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Does anyone know if Crazy Billy will be back this season? I wouldn't mind seeing more of him.


Margaret (Thanks for the link from the Television Banter board, HLP.)

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Author: swimdad Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 12 of 78
Subject: Re: Last night Date: 6/16/2004 2:20 PM
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Does anyone know if Crazy Billy will be back this season? I wouldn't mind seeing more of him.

Didn't he kill himself?

swimdad



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Author: bigcaat Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 13 of 78
Subject: Re: Last night Date: 6/16/2004 2:22 PM
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-Rico and his stripper habit-huh?

I'm really sorry to see them open up this door. They've done it already. They did it with David, they did it with Brenda. (Not hookers, but the kinky sex thing.) I'll be really disappointed if they go down that road rather than come up with an original storyline. If nothing else, have the guy have a good ol' fashioned affair. It would certainly be more in his character than chasing hookers.

Caat

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Author: bigcaat Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 14 of 78
Subject: Re: Last night Date: 6/16/2004 2:25 PM
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then he did that weird screaming stuff afterwards and it was stupid again.

How, exactly, is one suppose to grieve when they have just had to bury the badly decomposed body of the mother of his child in the ground, and had to do it alone? Is there something in the 'grief rule book' that states screaming isn't an option? Just wondering.

Caat

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Author: HuffyLilPoon Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 15 of 78
Subject: Re: Last night Date: 6/16/2004 2:26 PM
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Didn't he [Crazy Billy]kill himself?

Don't think so. Last I saw he was trying to make out with Brenda and declaring his creepy undying love.

HLP


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Author: HuffyLilPoon Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 16 of 78
Subject: Re: Last night Date: 6/16/2004 2:29 PM
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How, exactly, is one suppose to grieve when they have just had to bury the badly decomposed body of the mother of his child in the ground, and had to do it alone? Is there something in the 'grief rule book' that states screaming isn't an option? Just wondering.

I think 6's point was more along the lines of that it was cool to see Nate do one unselfish thing after being a self-absorbed @sshat for the last several episodes. Or at least it *was* cool, until he started the screaming fit, which brought us back to things being ALL ABOUT HIM, removing the focus from Annoying Lisa, where at that moment (IMO) it belonged.

HLP


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Author: bigcaat Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 17 of 78
Subject: Re: Last night Date: 6/16/2004 3:00 PM
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until he started the screaming fit, which brought us back to things being ALL ABOUT HIM, removing the focus from Annoying Lisa, where at that moment (IMO) it belonged.

Gotta disagree. It thought the thing with Brenda showed his selfishness, but the thing with Lisa was about him. Can you imagine having to do what he did? Can you imagine having to do what he did and then put the emotion of losing his wife on top of it? But he did it for her, no matter how difficult for him.

I don't care how much they weren't getting along, that probably even makes it worse because of the guilt. But when you lose someone close to you it can be argued that it's no longer about the person who has died. They have gone on to a better place (or no place, if you're an athiest) so they are not the ones dealing with it. The people left behind are. You can feel bad for how she died, but at that moment, it was about Nate.

(Listen to us, talking like these people are real -- TV is funny, isn't it? :-) )

Anyway, just my 2 cents.

Caat

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Author: sofaking6 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 18 of 78
Subject: Re: Last night Date: 6/16/2004 7:29 PM
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How, exactly, is one suppose to grieve when they have just had to bury the badly decomposed body of the mother of his child in the ground, and had to do it alone? Is there something in the 'grief rule book' that states screaming isn't an option? Just wondering.

S

T

F

U



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Author: alchook Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 19 of 78
Subject: Re: Last night Date: 6/16/2004 7:41 PM
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I hate Nate even more, because when he was burying half-Lisa I thought, that's the first unselfish thing he's done since the show started. But then he did that weird screaming stuff afterwards and it was stupid again.

I was hoping he would start digging but after about ten minutes realize that digging a hole is hard work and wind up leaving her in a dumpster or something.

That would have been more in character.


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Author: dreamdoc Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 20 of 78
Subject: Re: Last night Date: 6/16/2004 7:42 PM
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Frankly I just didn't buy that he cared so much...

Well, okay, maybe he was really all about guilt, but I still don't buy that he loved her that much. In fact I thought there was a great story lurking in his ongoing developing resentment and its similarity to his parents' relationship.




But they didn't ask me....

Julie

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Author: sofaking6 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 21 of 78
Subject: Re: Last night Date: 6/16/2004 7:46 PM
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Well, okay, maybe he was really all about guilt, but I still don't buy that he loved her that much. In fact I thought there was a great story lurking in his ongoing developing resentment and its similarity to his parents' relationship.

That's exactly it. His whole reaction to her disappearance and her death was phony. He didn't love her, but he took the opportunity to fall apart completely and pawn off all of his responsibilities, plus attack everyone around him all the time. There's a parallel to his father but Nathaniel is very honest about how things were - of course, he's got nothing to lose, being dead and all, and probably wasn't as straightforward when he was alive...

6

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Author: bigcaat Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 22 of 78
Subject: Re: Last night Date: 6/16/2004 9:56 PM
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Well, okay, maybe he was really all about guilt, but I still don't buy that he loved her that much.

I didn't get the feeling that they were trying to say he loved her and that's where his grief was coming from. I think grief is an incredibly complex emotion and doesn't have to stem from love singularly.

I think when someone dies you recognize what you did feel for them, however. That, mixed with the guilt for not caring more, imo, is more agonizing than if you had a completely harmonious relationship where you can say to yourself, "I know s/he knew how much I loved him/her and I have no regrets in our relationship." In that sense, it does become about the person left behind and what they have to deal with in the loss and grieving process.

When you add on top of it the idea that he was trying to do for her what her wishes were, by doing something that most people wouldn't be able to do, even without the emotion attached, I found it to be an incredible example of writing to create exposition for a character through life experience.

My sense is that we will see major changes in Nate in the episodes to come. It may take awhile, because Ball is very adept at developing the characters at a viable pace, but I think they are setting Nate up to go through some drastic changes.

Caat

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