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Telegraph wrote:

<<Two Starbucks a day at $2.50 each, plus two packs of cigarettes, for 30-35 years, translates into about five years earlier retirement.......

Many people can 'afford' $10,000-$15,000. Many people can 'afford' 4000-5000 sq ft houses, and Lexi and Rolexes. What many people can't afford is to retire before 65 because they don't have sufficient resources.>>

Telegraph,

You've totally missed my point. The point is, many people can afford varying levels of consumption - which you may or may not agree with - and still meet their stated goals of retiring early.

I know I can. And I can still enjoy my latte.

Investing the cost of one $2.00 latte per workday at 12% CAG will ultimately cost ---

...$1,245. if you work ten more years
...$5,112. if you work twenty more years
...$10,665. if you work twenty five more years (which for me is age 65 and doesn't really qualify for early retirement though)

So even if I take up smoking and double my latte intake - how does that add up to five years of early retirement? And just how much fun would I be to work with?

Now my cats - that's another story. I reckon the two of them will have cost me $85,000. at age 65. But it's OK because they're in the the budget (providing they don't live past 2015)....
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Investing the cost of one $2.00 latte per workday at 12% CAG will ultimately cost ---

...$1,245. if you work ten more years
...$5,112. if you work twenty more years
...$10,665. if you work twenty five more years (which for me is age 65 and doesn't really qualify for early retirement though)
******
No, even without compounding, my result says it is $480 per year, so in ten years, without compounding or any gain on the money (ie, you put it in a big piggy bank) you would have $4800 after 10 years. $9600 after 20 years. But you gotta compound it at 12%.
*********
So even if I take up smoking and double my latte intake - how does that add up to five years of early retirement? And just how much fun would I be to work with?
Investing the cost of one $2.00 latte per workday at 12% CAG will ultimately cost ---

...$1,245. if you work ten more years
...$5,112. if you work twenty more years
...$10,665. if you work twenty five more years (which for me is age 65 and doesn't really qualify for early retirement though)

So even if I take up smoking and double my latte intake - how does that add up to five years of early retirement? And just how much fun would I be to work with?""

I don't follow your math......anyway, the 'average' cup of Starbucks is about $3 here, after tax...I'll use that...and some people have 2 a day, but let's settle for one.....

$3/day x 240 working days a year (2 week vac and 10 holidays) = $720 per year.

2 packs of cigs a day, at $3/pack = $6/day x365.25 days or $2191.5 per year. (don't smoke, but eat a $6 lunch or $6 in snacks? use that instead)

total per year
coffee $720
smokes $2191.5
total per year $3631.5

Plug that into a typical retirement calculator (as annual contribution at 12%) and it adds up to a big bunch of change, especially if you start at age 21, and do it up to 55 or 60. Just the first year, compounded at 12% interest, for 30 years (double after six, double again after 12, double again after 18, double again after 24, double again after 30) or 32X,is $116,200. That is JUST THE FIRST YEARS money!!!!! The second year comes out to about $102,000, I think.....

How many million are you giving up?


Throw in $10,000 vacations for 10 years, age 22-32, or $100,000, and compound that at 12% for 30 years, and it is well over 1 million (doubles every 6 years!) for those 'vacations'. for just 10 years.

Yes, I'm sure folks earning (couples ) $60,000 or $80,000 or $100,000 can 'afford' $10,000 vacations. And can 'afford' big fancy cars, and big fancy houses.

THey just can't seem to afford to 'retire'......starting to save at 45, for a retirement at 55, just doesn't hack it...it is the compounding for 20 or 30 years that does the trick!

NOw if they have the wherewithall to be both saving $20,000 in retirement savings (401K, IRAs) and in taxable index funds, and then take their vacations and yuppie toys, and pay off their debts before age 55, then they will have a very financially sound retirement.

That doesn't seem to be the case. The average 401K is under $100,000.





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ooops, error.......

"total per year
coffee $720
smokes $2191.5
total per year $3631.5

Plug that into a typical retirement calculator (as annual contribution at 12%) and it adds up to a big bunch of change, especially if you start at age 21, and do it up to 55 or 60. Just the first year, compounded at 12% interest, for 30 years (double after six, double again after 12, double again after 18, double again after 24, double again after 30) or 32X,is $116,200. That is JUST THE FIRST YEARS money!!!!! The second year comes out to about $102,000, I think....."

brain dead it seems tonight.....$720 and $2191.5 adds up to $2911.5......so that would be $93,168 after 30 years for just the first years expenses.

If you had 2 lattes a day, at $3 apiece, and smoked, then we are at $116,000 for just the first years contribution to your retirement plan.....

The wonders of compound interest and annual contributions starting early is amazing.

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If you stuck away $2000/yr, tax deferred to tax efficiently, starting at age 21, you would have 1.22 million at age 55. (at 12% annual return).

Make it $3000/yr (two lattes and 2 pack of smokes) and now you have 50% more, or 1.82 million......

Throw in another $5000 a year in 401 plan or other savings, starting at 21, and now you have nearly 5 million. (only spend $5000 on your vacations!)

At a 4% withdrawal rate, (assuming 3% inflation) that would be the inflated equivalent of $50,000 retirement income. ($200K a year, but cost of living has gone up by 4).

Want more ? $100,000/yr in today's dollars....???? then save double that......which wouldn't be that hard since if you saved just 8% of $100K income, rising at 3-4% a year in raises, or 8k a year, you would make that!.....plus more.....or 16% of your $50K income.....then again, if you can live on $50K, after taxes, and save $8K, you wouldn't need $100K in retirement, would you?



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Oops,

Mea Culpa on the math - I did my currency conversion incorrectly. Actually, the $2.00 latte x 5 workdays x 48 weeks (I'm not counting holidays here) would compound to:

$8,971 in 10 years
$36,833. in 20 years
$76,851. in 25 years

But the point still remains - yes we could all save more, but at what cost to enjoying one's life While You're Living It. All that matters is that you create a budget appropriate to your goals and live within your means.

Yes, we all know people who overspend and will never retire early. Oftentimes on far less extravagent lifestyles than those you've cited.

(And quite frankly, any 21 year old who can spend $10K on vacations, or save half as you suggest, is on a pretty good pay package - a cup of coffee ain't gonna break the bank.)

So...I'm not giving up my latte - but I am having second thoughts about the cats.....

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About the 401Ks: When people on this board quote figures for "average 401K," are they talking about the average 401K for each working person, or the average combined balance for each family (assuming two wage earners)? Same with living expenses, etc. -- when they're quoted at $20K per year, $40K per year, etc., are they being quoted per person or per empty-nested retired couple?

About the coffee: Who really and I mean really drinks a Starbuck's latte every single working day? Does anyone do that? I know of one case in which a former coworker passed by the drive-through cappuccino stand on her way to work every morning ($3.50 per day), but that was an isolated incident and I don't believe that even she went every day.

I'd actually have to go out of my way to get Starbuck's before work (the horror!), but I wouldn't do it -- I can get free "regular" coffee at work and suffer with most of my fellow working stiffs (and even the management drinks the free coffee). If I wanted to splurge I'd buy some flavored creamers. Or, I suppose I could work up the street at one place that has a Starbuck's counter inside. Or, go back to a former employer who provided free Starbuck's coffee, but only the "regular" kind -- no fancy blended drinks. : )

--AF
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Ali,

You've rumbled onto my game - I confess I don't have a latte every working day. And Starbucks is just about to open here in Hong Kong.

I'm also curious about the 401K - I'd assume that the average balance quoted is per wage earner. Dual income = dual 401K's. It would be interesting to compare that to the level of household debt of which we've be hearing so much lately - anyone have that info?

Cheers.
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alifool asked (probably rhetorically): Who really and I mean really drinks a Starbuck's latte every single working day? Does anyone do that?

Not, me. I don't even like Starbucks, too burnt tasting. Caribou coffee (local to NC?)is another matter...

But, I do stop at McD's every working morning for a large cup'a'joe...

Better than Starbucks and only $.99!

Chuck
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So even if I take up smoking and double my latte intake - how does that add up to five years of early retirement?

Easy! If you take up smoking and double your intake of caffeine, there's a good chance you will shorten your life by more than five years, thus allowing you to retire sooner because you won't need for your investments to last as long.
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(And quite frankly, any 21 year old who can spend $10K on vacations, or save half as you suggest, is on a pretty good pay package - a cup of coffee ain't gonna break the bank.)

Unfortunately, it is often the "small" things which "break the bank". Small expenses only start with the cup of coffee at $2, but extend to gargantuan cable/satellite subscriptions, many dinners out, all the laundry service and dry cleaning, and the myriad of convenience "expenses" which have suddenly cropped up among people with average to above-average incomes.

This isn't to say that I don't enjoy a latte, a dinner out, cable, vacations every once in a while, BUT the expenses on these things are measured and included in the "budget". The things which drain ones wallet are usually those periodic expenses which don't seem to be noticed by most people.
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This board just loves to run the numbers, if only ones life would run as exactly. The lattes and cigs numbers mean nothing, anyone smoking two packs a day for twenty five, thirty years will not need to worry about retirement money, they won't be here.
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The lattes and cigs numbers mean nothing, anyone smoking two packs a day for twenty five, thirty years will not need to worry about retirement money, they won't be here.

I sure hope two cups of coffee isn't going to kill us.....now the cancer sticks, that's a different story, but you'll probably get to suffer 5 or 10 or 15 years with breathing disorders, oxygen tanks, maybe lung cancer or other cancers (nose, throat, mouth).

so you wind up working just to have the medical insurance......and you have more likelihood of needing medical care for your ailments......and of course, at much higher risk for heart attack and stroke......and, for men, the loss of potency is almost 100% higher....

BTW, I think Starbucks is up to serving millions of customers a day......There aren't too many Starbucks places that aren't mobbed.....***somebody*** is buying all that expensive coffee!
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I work in a large downtown area, there are Starbucks and Caribou Coffee shops on nearly every block. I walk by them frequently, and at 8:30 AM the line at the one in my building is out the door. With high downtown rents they wouldn't stay in business if people weren't buying.

When it was bitterly cold this winter (-10 F) I would get a $1.00 refill at Caribou. I was the only person getting "just coffee", every one else in line was getting a latte or cappacino, etc.

BTW, Caribou is based in Minneapolis, not NC.

Cosmos
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AliFool asked:
About the coffee: Who really and I mean really drinks a Starbuck's latte every single working day?

I'm curious who'd want to? Yech! Heck, I understand that you can use a lower quality bean if you burn the coffee. But if I'd really liked burned coffee, I'd still be using an old style percolator.

Drip coffee desrves beans that have been treated with more respect. My one complaint about the Starbucks chain is that it's driving out good coffee.<sigh> I must be getting old; I'm reminiscing about the good old days!

JMO
-Ron
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OK, can I be impertinent and ask-am I the only one who makes my own coffee at home in the morning? Geez, that's what the kitchen is for!
Actually my SO grinds the beans, brews it, and delivers it to me in bed with a big wakeup kiss before heading off to work at 5:30. Beats the hell out of Starbucks any day....
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2002: Actually my SO grinds the beans, brews it, and delivers it to me in bed with a big wakeup kiss before heading off to work at 5:30. Beats the hell out of Starbucks any day....

LOL. I can just see the lines out the door at Starbucks if they provided this extra service!

Always looking for the new niche.<grin>

Inparadise
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Caribou coffee (local to NC?)is another matter...


Nope. Minnesota. Who in NC would think of Caribou?

http://www.cariboucoffee.com
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OK, can I be impertinent and ask-am I the only one who makes my own coffee at home in the morning? Geez, that's what the kitchen is for!
Actually my SO grinds the beans, brews it, and delivers it to me in bed with a big wakeup kiss before heading off to work at 5:30. Beats the hell out of Starbucks any day....


Yeah, I've got a decent travel mug, and it's SO NICE to make my own coffee in the morning. I get the store brand beans, can put in *just* the right amount of cream and sugar and it is never too hot to drink.

No wake up kiss with it, though. I do get the occasional cold nose in the ear from the cats if I don't get moving fast enough in the morning.

Cindy
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OK, can I be impertinent and ask-am I the only one who makes my own coffee at home in the morning? Geez, that's what the kitchen is for!
Actually my SO grinds the beans, brews it, and delivers it to me in bed with a big wakeup kiss before heading off to work at 5:30. Beats the hell out of Starbucks any day....


We buy Starbucks by the pound to make at home because DW prefers it. Every night I set it up--put coffee in the filter, cover it, fill the kettle with water. In the morning all she has to do is turn on the stove, wait and pour. If I get up before her, I do it and serve it to her in bed. But I'm RE so you won't find me up that early very often.
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I have always taken the view that there's really nothing wrong with little luxuries - the problem is when you (a) don't pick and choose the 'little luxuries' that you really enjoy and value or (b) indulge in little luxuries while neglecting to tend to little economies.

Some people really enjoy latte, and let's face it, making it yourself can be a pain in the butt - it also requires special equipment. On the other hand, if you are just drinking coffee for the caffeine, opting for the regular coffee - or using your office's free coffee instead - or even (shudder) drinking instant - are all valid options and should be examined, depending on your personal tastes.

I think one should acknowledge and choose the 'unneccessary' expenses that you indulge in - just try to be mindful and not indulge in them out of habit, or conformity, or laziness.

There are plenty of unneccessary expenses that most people just let slide, not because they get any particular pleasure or value out of them, but because denial and habit are powerful forces. The standard personal-finance advice about "give up your two lattes" should be taken a little less literally, I think. The definition of "what I can afford" is very elastic and depends on my personal values. I can afford a lot of things; what matters is what I *choose* to afford.

EditorialWe
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OK, can I be impertinent and ask-am I the only one who makes my own coffee at home in the morning?

I, or SO, makes the coffee in the AM, or PM depending on what shift I'm working. I only drink one cup of java though and that's with some soy milk in it. So delicious with the soy milk. Try it if you haven't.

Green tea the rest of the day and I make that myself. If working, a free cup and free hot water at the local 7-11. I provide the tea bag myself.

Green tea. If it helps keep us healthy it can and should be a good part of everyones RE plan.

Mark :-)
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Green tea. If it helps keep us healthy it can and should be a good part of everyones RE plan.

If you like green tea - check out rooibos tea!

Helter - just eliminated caffeine from my diet(mostly) in the past few weeks. Still occasionally have caffeinated pop by accident but my 3-4 mugs of coffee with hot chocolate mix in them each morning are gone! I'm much less tense.
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or even (shudder) drinking instant

Folgers instant, 1 1/4 teaspoon of Folgers. Boil water and fill standard size coffee cup till about 3/4 full. Add soy milk till bubbly right to the rim. Ah, perfect.

I've had 9 years of various types of coffee in the Navy. Monday morning coffee at one ET school in Norfolk was always the worst. Coffee with soap suds from where it was cleaned over the weekend. Took till Monday afternoon until you couldn't taste the soap. Young, hungover squids needed their coffee desparately on Monday mornings so we all took the suds with the grime.

I've tried various Gevalia <sp?> coffees and all the various drip coffees at the local supermarkets.

Instant Folgers with soy milk is the best I've had. To each their own.

Mark :-)
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"I have always taken the view that there's really nothing wrong with little luxuries - the problem is when you (a) don't pick and choose the 'little luxuries' that you really enjoy and value or (b) indulge in little luxuries while neglecting to tend to little economies."
"I think one should acknowledge and choose the 'unneccessary' expenses that you indulge in - just try to be mindful and not indulge in them out of habit, or conformity, or laziness."

Well said, EditorialWe. The key to living well in the true sense of the word is "mindfulness" in everything one does. Examine every action and every dollar spent and make sure you are trading your "life energy" appropriately. As an example, to stay with the coffee theme, in our small town, we choose to buy our coffee locally. It's organic French roast and it's wonderful. We pay more than the stuff you get in a can, but then, a) it tastes lots better and b) we're supporting our local food coop and c) we're supporting organic farmers. Everybody wins. Sure, we pay 8.69 a pound for the stuff, but to balance out this expense, I buy all my jeans now at the Goodwill for 5 dollars a pair instead of 29.99 at Mervyn's. And they fit just as good.
2002orbust



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"OK, can I be impertinent and ask-am I the only one who makes my own coffee at home in the morning? "

Nope....

Have two cups of instant Taster's Choice each morning....good stuff....caffeinated......

Once a week, maybe, wander down to MacDonald's and get Egg McMuffin....half the time they give me senior citizen coffee for a quarter( I don't ask, but those not in a hurry, coming after morning rush, seem to get the 'senior coffee' without asking....in any event, free refills.....I read the paper, get a second cup....head home....

Cup of instant decaff Taster's Choice after dinner.

Had free coffee at work for 17 years......they tried in last year to do away with it.....until they realized they would lose something like 200,000 man hours a year with people going to the cafeteria for 20 minute coffee breaks instead of working harder at their desks.
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Green tea. If it helps keep us healthy it can and should be a good part of everyones RE plan.

Mark :-)


I did a study while I was a lab assistant at the UT Vet School using green tea. We put green tea in the water bottles of golden syrian hamsters and (regular water as a control) and then injected the hamsters subcutaneously in the inguinal region with NNK (a powerful carcinogen that causes lung cancer in humans and animals; NNK is a breakdown product of nicotine that is present in all tobacco products). The hamsters that were on green tea had none or fewer lung tumors than the controls; and the tumors they did have were significantly smaller in size. I'm not sure if my old boss has published the study yet but if she has it would be on Medline. You could search under my name, Riechert-A. Green tea is a factory of powerful anti-oxidants and anti-carcinogens. Scientists are not sure exactly what the protective factors are in green tea but they know that they're present. One thing I did find out though is that you have to drink lots of it; and drink it every day. I guess I would reccomend that smokers drink green tea every day.
- Art
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ariechert says: The hamsters that were on green tea had none or fewer lung tumors than the controls; and the tumors they did have were significantly smaller in size.

Wow, Art! This why you need to stop teaching and get back on the board! We want our ER to go on for a looong time.

arrete - who sent this tidbit to all her family
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fleg9bo says: But I'm RE so you won't find me up that early very often.

That should be the RE mantra. I, myself, set an alarm clock if I have to be up by 8 am. Which isn't very often.

arrete
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<Sure, we pay 8.69 a pound for the stuff, but to balance out this expense, I buy all my jeans now at the Goodwill for 5 dollars a pair instead of 29.99 at Mervyn's. And they fit just as good.>


Adding to editorialWe's original point: somone else may decide that their $50 jeans are the only way to go. They may make up the difference with the store brand coffee. Neither one would be wrong. It is not about how little or how much one spends. Rather, the main point is to be able to enjoy your life. The idea is to strive to make conscious choices about what your priorities are. These may very well change as your life changes.

If FI/RE is your goal, how you allocate your resources is critical. Saving everything or nothing for tomorrow are two extreme choices. A FI/RE lifestyle should have a good sense of balance to it. One size does not fit all.

BRG
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EditorialWe says: I think one should acknowledge and choose the 'unneccessary' expenses that you indulge in - just try to be mindful and not indulge in them out of habit, or conformity, or laziness.

I think these little indulgences take two forms. (1) As EditorialWe says - often it is a matter of habit. Well, to counteract this - if any of you has ever been on a diet, think of how you felt when you purposely had a small piece of cake (chocolate, if you are me). You savored every bite! You really appreciated the moment that allowed you to experience this very physical enjoyment. Well, that is one way you could enjoy lattes - as a special treat. I have them about every 3 months - and I enjoy every sip (Barnies, though - never Starbucks).

The other form is comfort food. This is much more insidious. Things are so bad that you are "comforted" by this indulgence. It becomes necessary because it is hard to face the day without it. The thing to do here is to develop a different comfort "ceremony". Maybe take a walk before going to work or pack your own coffee from home and wind down before winding up. Do something that isn't setting back your RE. But occasionally have your Starbucks (see #1). It tastes even better after an absence.

arrete - who actually put her latte addiction into a spreadsheet to see what it was costing - that was 5 years before RE. Try it - it works.
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I guess I would reccomend that smokers drink green tea every day.

Sort of like trying to take an less than fully effective 'anti-dote' for the hundreds of carginogens in tobacco smoke?

Maybe it would be better to recommend that smokers simply stop smoking if they want to reduce their risk of cancer and heart attack and stroke?



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One thing I did find out though is that you have to drink lots of it; and drink it every day.

This should go on the Health and Nutrition board, but since I regularly post there it should also go here. All potential RE's and all others should strive to be healthy.

That being said, Art or anyone else who knows. How much green tea is enough. It seems I've read you should drink between 4 and 5 cups a day. I manage 2 and at the most 3 a day. I've developed a liking for green tea so if I knew for certain that it would really help me I would attempt to drink more. Any thoughts.

Hmmm, just finished a Beck's dark. Not as healthy as tea but it sure tastes good.

Mark :-)
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Maybe it would be better to recommend that smokers simply stop smoking if they want to reduce their risk of cancer and heart attack and stroke?

Maybe I should have phrased it, "If smokers are going to continue to smoke they should consider drinking green tea." Of course quitting would be better, but we don't live in a perfect world. Life is neither fair nor kind. Smokers are addicted to nicotine which is something akin to be addicted to heroin. Some of the same receptors in the brain are involved in cigarette addiction as in being addicted to opiates. - Art



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I used to feel the same way about green tea, until my recent 4-way heart bypass. Green tea was a no-no on the list I was given by the nutritionist. Apparently not everyone should partake.

djfoo, Friend of little millionaires since 1902
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We live in a rural area, and since there are zero coffee places here, I admit that for awhile I went a bit overboard on the Starbucks lattes every time we hit town:) I'd always been a big coffee drinker and the vanilla lattes just were irresistable to me at the time.

Ended up buying a small espresso machine for the home instead, and now I can wake up to hubby making my lattes - the machine has paid for itself many times over already. Should have done this from the start:) I rarely buy coffee drinks on the road now. Well, ever since the health kick started around here, I actually drink alot less, and its all decaf, non-fat milk, sugar free vanilla, etc...

TS
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djfoo said:
Green tea was a no-no on the list I was given by the nutritionist. Apparently not everyone should partake.

Any idea why?

Helter - drinking green tea and doesn't want to hurt his heart while trying to prevent cancer :)
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<< Now my cats - that's another story. I reckon the two of them will have cost me $85,000. at age 65. But it's OK because they're in the the budget (providing they don't live past 2015).... >>

Better budget a few more dollars because of those cats... (:

The Fountain Of Youth Has Whiskers

Cat lovers have always known that living with a cat is life-enhancing, but now researchers have compiled a mountain of statistics showing that cats can add as much as 10 years to your life. Dr. Horst Becker's astonishing claims come from the most exhaustive study ever undertaken on the relationship between humans and their pets. Seven scientists of the Berlin Longevity Institute worked for five years before drawing their conclusions. Becker and his associates studied more than 3,000 cat owners and found that these wonderful animals have an almost instantaneous calming effect. Just moments after a person picks up a cat, his or her blood pressure drops and the heart rate slows. According to Becker, "We didn't zero in on the amazing powers of cats until our figures began to show they acted like a fountain of youth for their owners. Any pet will add a few years to its owner's life, but cats add a whopping average of 10.3 years to people who've had one since childhood."

http://www.wicatclub.com/10_11.html


Me, I have a dog. Dogs are LBYM because they lower the cost of having a garden. No garden, no cost!


Washu! ^O^
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I did buy a small capucino/latte machine. I found a brand in Phoenix sold by Fry's Grocery Chain in their house brand which was HD Design. It cost $30.00. I buy my favorite beans, grind them myself (kind of messy but what the heck), and while the capucino is dripping, go to the front door for the WSJ, return to froth the milk, pour DH his share of coffee as espresso, and then the balance is tipped into my frothed milk. (The clean-up trick is to clean the frothing thingees right away.) After that, I take my brew, some toast, my part of the paper, and stroll out to the patio for the best part of the day. I read the paper, sip my latte, converse (maybe) a little with DH, (and get a share of RDA of calcium :)). We still conduct some business at this stage of our lives, so the phones are forwarded to our cell phone(s) or I have the portable beside me. What a great life!

I figure that the cost of those lattes is about half of a coffee shoop such as Starbuck's. In Phoenix, capucino runs about $2.50 each. It doesn't take long to pay for a $30.00 machine. The next in price is about $49.00.

Oh, and as an added benefit, I have not had a migraine headache in two years. I used to get them every couple of months (ouch!), but since I started drinking caps every morning, they have gone away. I never drank coffee before I started the capucino thing.
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I used to feel the same way about green tea, until my recent 4-way heart bypass. Green tea was a no-no on the list I was given by the nutritionist.

Any idea why green tea was a no-no?

Mark :-)
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About the coffee: Who really and I mean really drinks a Starbuck's latte every single working day? Does anyone do that?
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I'm sure there are millions who do. I used to stop for regular coffee every morning on the way to work. (I don't like Lattes but the regular coffee at that office was nasty!) At some point, I decided I was drinking way too much coffee and decided to cut back. After a while I noticed that I wasn't going to the ATM as often and that really motivated me to give up coffee away from home.
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Not, me. I don't even like Starbucks, too burnt tasting. Caribou coffee (local to NC?)is another matter...
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I agree about Starsucks, they don't get the difference between dark roasted and burnt. Caribou is also a national chain; I moved last summer and I really miss Caribou
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OK, can I be impertinent and ask-am I the only one who makes my own coffee at home in the morning? Geez, that's what the
kitchen is for!
Actually my SO grinds the beans, brews it, and delivers it to me in bed with a big wakeup kiss before heading off to work at
5:30. Beats the hell out of Starbucks any day....


Well I'm the only coffee drinker in my house and I'm the earliest out to work so what I do is brew my own Starbucks and take it with me in a thermos. DECAF is my only vice since I gave up alcohol, caffeine, nicotine and chasing women... ;-)

daddyboy87
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