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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 56766  
Subject: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/6/2007 11:40 PM
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I've been trying to detect any distinctively liberal approach to early retirment on this board, but I can't say I've really found any. Perhaps my liberal friends here can help tease out particular values or approaches to early retirement that would be distinctively different than my own as a grasping money obsessed Republican.


So what's different in the way liberals expect to get to early retirement? A vegetarian diet? Socially conscious mutual funds? Growing medically necessary pot at home?

Please supplement my poor imagination with your own distinctively liberal methods and approaches.




Seattle Pioneer
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Author: sykesix Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 907 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/6/2007 11:45 PM
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So what's different in the way liberals expect to get to early retirement? A vegetarian diet? Socially conscious mutual funds? Growing medically necessary pot at home?

Please supplement my poor imagination with your own distinctively liberal methods and approaches.


They want to avoid people whose idea of a conversation is mindlessly repeating something they heard Rush say on the radio.


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Author: tedhimself Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 908 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/6/2007 11:56 PM
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I've been trying to detect any distinctively liberal approach to early retirment

Perhaps just the ability to discuss early retirement without having every other post contain the word liberal, as if liberals were some weird species of ??? is all that the people who formed this board want.

You've made quite a few posts here and almost everyone of them contains the word 'liberal'. Why is that? Why are you so fixated on the word liberal? Most people fixate on things that they are afraid of. Does that describe you?

Just to be clear, I do not fit the classification of liberal. Except that I guess that everyone who disagrees with you in any way is someone you would consider a liberal.

Now, I'm gonna take the cure that so many have suggested. I'm through talking to you.
Ted

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Author: 0x6a74 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 909 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 12:01 AM
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You've made quite a few posts here and almost everyone of them contains the word 'liberal'. Why is that? Why are you so fixated on the word liberal? Most people fixate on things that they are afraid of. Does that describe you?


because "liberal" is in the board name and his ONLY reason for being here is to try to ruin the board (because the board was created as a reaction to another board where everyone loves him)


=
./..... and sofar, it looks like he's winning.

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Author: Gingko100 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 912 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 12:52 AM
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Did you read the intro post? It's a board that's trying to stay away (largely) from politics. This is in the hope that people of a liberal view are welcome and right-wing politics will not be the subject of 80% of the posts, as they are at the REHP (RECF?) page.

I guess that doesn't sit well with you, but that's the intent.

We just got tired of all the blather at REHP.

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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 913 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 12:53 AM
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<<I've been trying to detect any distinctively liberal approach to early retirment

Perhaps just the ability to discuss early retirement without having every other post contain the word liberal, as if liberals were some weird species of ??? is all that the people who formed this board want.>>



I'm afraid you are out of luck on that one, since every post contains the word you want to avoid right in the name of the board.



<<You've made quite a few posts here and almost everyone of them contains the word 'liberal'. Why is that? Why are you so fixated on the word liberal? Most people fixate on things that they are afraid of. Does that describe you?

Just to be clear, I do not fit the classification of liberal. Except that I guess that everyone who disagrees with you in any way is someone you would consider a liberal.
>>




Welcome to the club, I'm no longer a liberal either, although I was one from 1965-1984, with time out for some periods of radicalism in the late 1960s and early 1970s.


So no, the word doesn't scare me. I understand a good deal of the history and ideas of modern Democratic liberalism, and I've supported the liberal program in the past.


I'm interested in whether there are distictively liberal ideas and values that might contribute to early retirement. Apparently you can't make any contribution to such a question, but perhaps someone else can do so.


We shall see.



Seattle Pioneer




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Author: 0x6a74 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 914 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 12:58 AM
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Did you read the intro post?

yup.

It's a board that's trying to stay away (largely) from politics. This is in the hope that people of a liberal view are welcome and right-wing politics will not be the subject of 80% of the posts, as they are at the REHP (RECF?) page.

I guess that doesn't sit well with you, but that's the intent.


i'm entirely content with that ..... well , mostly --


We just got tired of all the blather at REHP.


but as long as there's a couple refugees from REHP trying to drag their 'blather' over here ... some are going to point that out &/or complain.


=

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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 915 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 1:01 AM
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<<Did you read the intro post? It's a board that's trying to stay away (largely) from politics. This is in the hope that people of a liberal view are welcome and right-wing politics will not be the subject of 80% of the posts, as they are at the REHP (RECF?) page.

I guess that doesn't sit well with you, but that's the intent.

We just got tired of all the blather at REHP.

>>


I think you underestimate the creativity of modern Democratic liberalism. I'll bet that we do find people with distinctively liberal ideas and methods that would contribute to early retirement.


You read three I suggested off hand, including "socially responsible" mutual funds, vegetarianism and growing medical marijuana. The first is certainly a main stream liberal approach to investing these days. The other two might have advocates.

If I can think of three possibilities, I'd be very surprised if people don't have more that they would like to contribute for discussion.

Nothing in my post addressed any kind of right wing issue.


Take an even strain and see if you can address the issue I posed.



Seattle Pioneer




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Author: Gingko100 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 916 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 1:12 AM
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So what's different in the way liberals expect to get to early retirement? A vegetarian diet? Socially conscious mutual funds? Growing medically necessary pot at home?

Against my better judgement, I'm going to respond to this in the (somewhat futile) hope this is a real post and not just a gleeful flame...

There ISN'T any difference in how you get there. Be frugal. Live within your means. Spend consciously and thoughtfully. Invest your savings. These things are universal.

What has any of the above to do with my political views? Very little indeed, except in some of my investing choices. My views on the war, tax policy, or whether I think Rush Limbaugh is a raving lunatic (I do) have nothing to do with my ability to work hard, own my own business and retire early. You seem to think that politics and my financial success must somehow be related in a wierd dependent relationship.

They don't. People are much more interesting and complex than that.

Oh, and by the way, I don't spend all my time on the REHP page initiating posts that are clearly just intended to needle people about their politics. I might suggest the same.



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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 918 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 1:24 AM
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<<So what's different in the way liberals expect to get to early retirement? A vegetarian diet? Socially conscious mutual funds? Growing medically necessary pot at home?

Against my better judgement, I'm going to respond to this in the (somewhat futile) hope this is a real post and not just a gleeful flame...

There ISN'T any difference in how you get there. Be frugal. Live within your means. Spend consciously and thoughtfully. Invest your savings. These things are universal.

>>


Well, thank you for your reply. I'll be mightily disappointed if I don't find people whose liberal/socialist values don't lead them to some particular ways of achieving early retirement that wouldn't be shared with Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity and I as grasping Republicans.

And I'm quite serious about my question.


We'll see.



Seattle Pioneer

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Author: montecfo Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 926 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 7:05 AM
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So what's different in the way liberals expect to get to early retirement? A vegetarian diet? Socially conscious mutual funds? Growing medically necessary pot at home?

Please supplement my poor imagination with your own distinctively liberal methods and approaches.


They plan to get someone else to pay for it.


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Author: montecfo Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 927 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 7:06 AM
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Perhaps just the ability to discuss early retirement without having every other post contain the word liberal, as if liberals were some weird species of ??? is all that the people who formed this board want.

You've made quite a few posts here and almost everyone of them contains the word 'liberal'. Why is that? Why are you so fixated on the word liberal? Most people fixate on things that they are afraid of. Does that describe you?


I admit it, liberals scare me.


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Author: DorothyM Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 930 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 8:03 AM
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I admit it, liberals scare me.

BOO!

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Author: ResNullius Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 932 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 9:00 AM
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They want to avoid people whose idea of a conversation is mindlessly repeating something they heard Rush say on the radio.

As opposed to mindlessly repeating something they heard on MoveOn.Org and other such fountains of truth and wisdom.



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Author: Gingko100 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 933 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 9:03 AM
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They plan to get someone else to pay for it.

I don't.

I think I need to stop reading this board. It started out promising, but has turned into trolling by bored REHP members.

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Author: montecfo Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 936 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 9:06 AM
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They plan to get someone else to pay for it.

I don't.

Admitting it is the first step....

I think I need to stop reading this board. It started out promising, but has turned into trolling by bored REHP members.

Seems like more of the Atheist Fools crowd to me.

Montecfo


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Author: parger Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 937 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 9:08 AM
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Don't stop reading. It's a new board, and I'm sure the amusement phase will pass.

Personally, I will continue to read and post on both boards. There are posters I like and enjoy in both places, and I find interesting commentary in both places.

If you have to only post according to what the board title says, I shouldn't even be here, because I will never be able to Retire Early -- I just hope to be able to retire. I find that what people say about how they got to that point and what they are doing with their time and lives very interesting.

And, as far as the politics go, I think they are ALL liars and cheaters and thieves and each of the parties is only looking to do a working person out of their money as fast as possible. You can only hope to elect the least thieving of them. (How's that for cynical)?

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Author: parger Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 938 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 9:09 AM
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HEY!!!


I GOT BALLOONS!!!

AND A RED STAR!!!!


Wow, when did that happen?

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Author: markr33 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 945 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 9:18 AM
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<<Please supplement my poor imagination with your own distinctively liberal methods and approaches.>>

They plan to get someone else to pay for it.


I don't think that is true. The liberal mindset today is generally to "help" others, usually those they define as downtrodden, and certainly not including people with the means, or near the means, to retire early. One of the major differences between todays liberals and conservatives is the level of belief that this "help" is actually helpful, at large, to the people purportedly being helped.


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Author: FoolYap Big funky green star, 20000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 949 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 9:30 AM
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I think I need to stop reading this board. It started out promising, but has turned into trolling by bored REHP members.

Why not instead use the tools given to us by TMF to ignore them?

Those being:

1. The penalty box
2. Ignore thread
3. Fool Alert

I don't think I've ever FA'd a post before, but I think I'm going to start using it on this board.

Some of these folks apparently think what they're doing here is "funny". We're a bunch of humorless whiners, for not "getting" the "humor" in what's being done here.

I also gather there's a sentiment of tit-for-tat, for the trolling MrCheeryO does at RECF.

I would personally be quite happy if everyone over there penalty-boxed MrCheeryO, and he eventually got bored and left them alone. Ditto the trolls we have.

But since people insist on throwing gasoline on their flames, by replying to these trolls here, I think I'll start to follow Whafa's advice and FA troll posts. If they get the Thinking Chair for a time, so much the better. RECF should do the same to MrCheeryO, if he bothers them as much.

--FY

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Author: cattleman22 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 950 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 9:32 AM
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{{I admit it, liberals scare me.}}

Liberals do not scare me, their desires and policies do.


c

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Author: vickifool Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 951 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 9:43 AM
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HEY!!!


I GOT BALLOONS!!!

AND A RED STAR!!!!


Wow, when did that happen?


Just now, I think.
Congratulations.

Vickifool

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Author: whafa Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 953 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 9:52 AM
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I don't think I've ever FA'd a post before, but I think I'm going to start using it on this board.


I don't understand the aversion to the FA feature. You are dealing with people whose only purpose here is to get you to say something they can FA. When you see a post that is inciteful, instead of replying, just FA it.

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Author: FordLove Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 958 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 10:00 AM
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FY
I wish the Fool had an ignore by board feature then I'd be more apt to p-box someone. As it is I don't p-box anyone. They may say something good somewhere.

That said, there does seem to be a certain class of posters on this bored who think the name of the board is "Retire Early Piss off a Liberal Edition" and that is unfortunate. Some boards are there for debate with opposing views, some are for virtol attacks on opposing views. Some are just to discuss issues within that group.

Much like going on Christian fools and saying believing in God makes you an idiot. I'm cool with that train of thought, but going into a church and saying that doesn't make you right, it just makes you a jerk. Just like going on Atheist fools and condeming posters to hell makes you a jerk. Actually it makes you an ironic jerk because that is rather unchristian, but that is irrelevant.

I may have to take you up on the p-boxing because retirement advice is good, but I was rather put off with the other board with its attitude.

I'll stay, and hopefully I will have something of more substance that my last post regarding Bea Arthur.

Ford

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Author: MDGluon Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 964 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 10:07 AM
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It is not just what we say that is important....it is also how it is said and in what spirit it is presented.

md


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Author: sissylue Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 965 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 10:08 AM
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But since people insist on throwing gasoline on their flames, by replying to these trolls here, I think I'll start to follow Whafa's advice and FA troll posts.

I think that's an excellent idea. In my case it will mean that I have to un-P-box a few people. Interestingly enough I have already missed the deliberate "came to this board" just to be a horse's patootie posts because the posters apparently were already in my P-Box from other boards (what a shock - who's of thunk it?).

But I will un-grey them long enough to FA their posts for the simple reason that since this board was set up deliberately to avoid the conservative/political dreck that now floods the old retire early board, and post that shows up here dredging up the conservative/liberal debate is de facto a trolling post. And an excellent candidate to be FA'd. I hope that everyone appreciates and uses the FA tactic if only for this board.

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Author: AngelMay Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 966 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 10:08 AM
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You've made quite a few posts here and almost everyone of them contains the word 'liberal'. Why is that? Why are you so fixated on the word liberal? Most people fixate on things that they are afraid of. Does that describe you?


because "liberal" is in the board name and his ONLY reason for being here is to try to ruin the board (because the board was created as a reaction to another board where everyone loves him)


=
./..... and sofar, it looks like he's winning.




Wouldn't you normally want to stay on a board where everyone loves you?
Why would you come to a board that is obviously not one that shares your politics -- unless all you wanted to do is stir up trouble?

Because I can tell you for sure....he's not going to win anyone over to the dark side here.

AM

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Author: vickifool Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 968 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 10:09 AM
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But I will un-grey them long enough to FA their posts for the simple reason that since this board was set up deliberately to avoid the conservative/political dreck that now floods the old retire early board, and post that shows up here dredging up the conservative/liberal debate is de facto a trolling post. And an excellent candidate to be FA'd. I hope that everyone appreciates and uses the FA tactic if only for this board.

Dang! So I'm going to have to un-P-box the trolls?

Vickifool

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Author: spl241 Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 971 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 10:13 AM
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You've made quite a few posts here and most every one contains the word 'liberal'. Now, I'm gonna take the cure that many have suggested. I'm through talking to you.
-----

That's been suggested countless times, and it's your right to shut SP out. I'm aware of the deep and possibly justified opposition from those on the Left. The Left is definitely my residence, yet I've allowed my "doors to remain open" to him and have been rewarded. Below, I'll possibly give you reasons to re-consider. You don't have to "talk" here to get your shot of TMF's "educate/amuse/enrich" credo. Sometimes just reading is enough.

I'll stick my neck out: I think that some hostility toward him may stem from jealousy. He works when he wants and exited the rat race quite early. He's got plenty of discretionary money at his disposal. I think that a fair number of his critics can say none of these things. SP's lifelong bachelorhood and childlessness precluded many necessarily expensive longterm obligations that so many of us, including me, have experienced.

He has given only rare glimpses into his personal life. If you were heads-up and caught these, you may have been surprised. I'm going to give you 3 links below. I urge you to read them, because they are quite instructive, IMO.

1) How he reached financial independence: http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=23233568

2) Homeless and struggling teen: http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=20496426

3) Like most of us, he's had to borrow money: http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=15098063

SP is currently #6 of the 50 Fave Fools. He's not there because 789 people think he's a vacuous dumba$$. I certainly didn't think so when I wrote his Feste nomination in -05. Some people don't like what they think he is, but he "is what he is." My purpose of the links was to provide a different perspective.

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Author: lizmonster Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 975 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 10:16 AM
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I'll stick my neck out: I think that some hostility toward him may stem from jealousy.

I'd be really, really surprised if you were right about this.

He was in my p-box long before I knew he was FIRE.

Regardless of whether or not he has made valuable contributions on other boards (and I know that he has), his posts here have been trolling.

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Author: AngelMay Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 981 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 10:33 AM
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If you have to only post according to what the board title says, I shouldn't even be here, because I will never be able to Retire Early --


parger, I'd be interested in why you say this?
Are you already in your late 50s with no savings (in which case I can understand it)? But if you are still in your 20s or 30s or even your early 40s, I think it is possible that you could retire before 65 (my definition of retiring early).

Some people think retiring early means you retire in your 20s or 30s -- and that's really lucky for them, but most of us can not and were not able to do that. But some of us have managed to retire at least a few years early.

Why do you think you will never be able to do that?

AM

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Author: montecfo Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 982 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 10:37 AM
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But I will un-grey them long enough to FA their posts for the simple reason that since this board was set up deliberately to avoid the conservative/political dreck that now floods the old retire early board, and post that shows up here dredging up the conservative/liberal debate is de facto a trolling post. And an excellent candidate to be FA'd. I hope that everyone appreciates and uses the FA tactic if only for this board.

Most of the political posts here express left-leaning viewpoints. Fortunately, this is America, and you cannot exclude someone's view just because you dislike it. In fact, all these posts attempting to "deter" people whose views some may dislike are themselves far more disruptive than most political posts. That you favor such posts is neither here nor there, if we are speaking objectively.

The Fool has put some excellent tools in place for you to use, which are the p-box and "ignore" thread. I have never found a need to use them, but I am told they work very well.

Montecfo


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Author: AngelMay Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 983 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 10:39 AM
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I don't think that is true. The liberal mindset today is generally to "help" others, usually those they define as downtrodden, and certainly not including people with the means, or near the means, to retire early. One of the major differences between todays liberals and conservatives is the level of belief that this "help" is actually helpful, at large, to the people purportedly being helped.




Why is it that a conservative thinks he has the intelligence to tell a group of liberals what a liberal is? That would be like me going to the astronauts board(if there is one) and explaining what astronauts are and what they think. Or going to the Jewish board and explaining Judaism to them.

It would do nothing more than show my own ignorance -- just like this poster is showing his.

Why is someone who so obviously hates liberals even on this board at all? Maybe his own playmates don't like playing with him. What's the matta, mark? Millionaires too dull for you with all those heartless conservatives over there betting on which way their grandmas will fall when they kick them into the gutters of poverty because they didn't have the smarts ( like you ) to do it the conservative way.

Christ -- is there no relief from "conservatives" (the scourge of the planet)?


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Author: FoolYap Big funky green star, 20000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 985 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 10:43 AM
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I don't understand the aversion to the FA feature. You are dealing with people whose only purpose here is to get you to say something they can FA. When you see a post that is inciteful, instead of replying, just FA it.

I'm coming around to that way of thinking.

I guess an FA flies in the face of what I consider good etiquette. That is to say, I don't want to prevent free speech, even if I consider it hateful, disruptive, etc. I just don't want to have to read it.

If everyone who was similarly disinclined to want to read that here were to stop replying to those folks, then one could hope they would just get bored and go away. And if not, then at least I wouldn't have to keep reading it in replies, and nor would everyone else (especially newcomers) have to keep hitting disruptive speech.

But since it seems that some people are pathologically unable to recognize when their speech is not wanted, and that some people actually enjoy engaging the trolls or are pathologically incapable of ignoring them, then -- much as it goes against the grain for me, of allowing everyone the right to state their opinion -- then I'll use that tool.

Frankly, I wish TMF would implement moderated boards, similar to Yahoo's groups, where the board creator/moderator had the right to exclude people from participating. Unlike Yahoo's groups, in which I believe you can only choose between read+write or no-access, I would prefer that TMF allow the moderator a choice between read+write or read-only.

But, they won't do that. It's "not the kind of community they want", apparently.

Hence, we have to use the tools given to combat trolling. And, reluctantly, I agree with you on FA's in this case.

--FY

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Author: tootru Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 988 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 10:46 AM
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Happy B'loon day!

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Author: FoolYap Big funky green star, 20000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 989 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 10:50 AM
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I wish the Fool had an ignore by board feature then I'd be more apt to p-box someone. As it is I don't p-box anyone. They may say something good somewhere.

I've asked for that feature on ITF, as have many others. It'll never happen.

I know what you're saying. There are plenty of people who have opinions I find distasteful. I don't as a rule p-box them.

And there is one troll here -- I won't use names, since there is another one here who FA's anything I say that that references that troll by name and that could be construed as a "personal attack" -- who often posts very useful information in other forums. It would be nice to be able to read that.

However, that troll has a long history of going BSC in certain forums, LBYM being one, RECF being another. And, every so often, even in one of the forums where sanity is more typical. Certain kinds of hateful diatribe make me want to reply. Yet, history has shown the futility of it. And neither do I want to just read and let it pass by. I don't want to read it.

Hence, I p-box. Yeah, I might miss some useful information. There's other sources for it. Life's too short. Why wait to step on a big, stinky verbal turd?

--FY

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Author: FoolYap Big funky green star, 20000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 992 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 10:53 AM
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I'll stick my neck out: I think that some hostility toward him may stem from jealousy.

That is possibly the dumbest thing I have ever read on TMF.

The hostility towards him here stems from the fact that he is here merely to poke a stick in a hornet's nest and rattle it around.

That's downright anti-social behavior. It warrants hostility.

--FY

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Author: cattleman22 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 993 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 10:54 AM
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{{Hence, I p-box. Yeah, I might miss some useful information.}}


As this board founder likes to say "There are none so blind as those who choose not to see."


c

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Author: AngelMay Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 997 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 11:01 AM
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I'll stick my neck out: I think that some hostility toward him may stem from jealousy.



This is totally ridiculous.


He works when he wants and exited the rat race quite early. He's got plenty of discretionary money at his disposal. I think that a fair number of his critics can say none of these things. SP's lifelong bachelorhood and childlessness precluded many necessarily expensive longterm obligations that so many of us, including me, have experienced.



Why would we care in the least about his money or his bachelorhood?
That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.


SP is currently #6 of the 50 Fave Fools.


That, and about 5 dollars will buy him a coffee at Starbucks.



SP is currently #6 of the 50 Fave Fools. He's not there because 789 people think he's a vacuous dumba$$. I certainly didn't think so when I wrote his Feste nomination in -05. Some people don't like what they think he is, but he "is what he is." My purpose of the links was to provide a different perspective.



We'll look at him from a different perspective when he begins to behave from one. Sheesh.

Lots of people have suffered hardships you know -- and they didn't become pompous know-it-alls as a result.

AM-







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Author: vickifool Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1000 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 11:10 AM
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I'll stick my neck out: I think that some hostility toward him may stem from jealousy.

Nope. I'm retired with plenty of discretionary income. He's a trouble-maker.

SP is currently #6 of the 50 Fave Fools.
He's quite likely to be both on my fave list and in my p-box, depending on his behaviour.

Vickifool


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Author: montecfo Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1005 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 11:17 AM
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Lots of people have suffered hardships you know -- and they didn't become pompous know-it-alls as a result.

I am more concerned about the arrogant know-so-littles.

Montecfo



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Author: GusSmed Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1010 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 11:21 AM
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I'll stick my neck out: I think that some hostility toward him may stem from jealousy.

I'd say you're dead wrong, particularly on this board. I p-boxed him well before I learned that he was more-or-less FIRE. Originally it was for his unrelenting disdain for women. He consistently describes them as parasites, and views marriage as the worst possible decision a man can make. Now and then someone else would channel something SP said, and I learned of his distorted views of anyone who gave a thought to conservation, the role of the Supreme Court, and issues like abortion.

Sure, he's not so bad when he keeps politics out of it, but he usually finds some way to inject politics into a discussion, even when the subject has nothing to do with politics. Someone says they're having credit card troubles, and he tells them to get divorced. Someone wants answers on heating issues where oil and natural gas aren't available, and he starts ranting about the evils of environmentalists.

On this board, he made a point of writing several posts whose sole purpose was to complain about how much he hated liberals. Then he has the gall to ask why we need our own board... when we made it clear that it exists so we had a place to talk about retirement without being called evil hypocrites for being liberal. That explanation is the 2nd post on the board, for gosh's sake!

It's really hard to understand how anyone who has read as many of SP's posts as you say wouldn't know all of this already.

- Gus

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Author: sofaking6 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1011 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 11:23 AM
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So what's different in the way liberals expect to get to early retirement? A vegetarian diet? Socially conscious mutual funds? Growing medically necessary pot at home?


Avoiding right wing morons.

6

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Author: cattleman22 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1012 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 11:25 AM
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So what's different in the way liberals expect to get to early retirement? A vegetarian diet? Socially conscious mutual funds? Growing medically necessary pot at home?

Avoiding right wing morons.


OCD: Avoiding everyone who disagrees with my political viewpoint, no matter how much they know about retirement



c

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Author: sofaking6 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1013 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 11:26 AM
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And I'm quite serious about my question.

If you're serious about a question, ask it in a way that isn't divisive and insulting. You'll get more replies and I won't have to hit the FA button.

6

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Author: whafa Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1023 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 11:34 AM
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He's quite likely to be both on my fave list and in my p-box, depending on his behaviour.

Vickifool


You can't p-box a favorite fool. Believe me, I've tried.

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Author: AngelMay Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1025 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 11:35 AM
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He's quite likely to be both on my fave list and in my p-box, depending on his behaviour.

Vickifool


You can't p-box a favorite fool. Believe me, I've tried.




Whafa, this post is totally off-topic.
Why are you posting it here?

AM

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Author: tenworlds Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1026 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 11:35 AM
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I don't understand the aversion to the FA feature. You are dealing with people whose only purpose here is to get you to say something they can FA. When you see a post that is inciteful, instead of replying, just FA it.
-----

'Inciteful' doesn't seem to break the roolz. I F/A'd this one
http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=25139099
which is as inciteful, hateful, and as insulting to liberals in general here as you can get, and still it stands.

In the meantime, I've had four posts (that questioned SP's 'intentions' here) yanked.





Rich

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Author: AngelMay Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1027 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 11:37 AM
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'Inciteful' doesn't seem to break the roolz. I F/A'd this one
http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=25139099
which is as inciteful, hateful, and as insulting to liberals in general here as you can get, and still it stands.

In the meantime, I've had four posts (that questioned SP's 'intentions' here) yanked.





Rich




I've also FA'd it -- twice.
Yet there it is.
Is it time for a war?

AM

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Author: sofaking6 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1040 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 11:51 AM
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SP is currently #6 of the 50 Fave Fools. He's not there because 789 people think he's a vacuous dumba$$. I certainly didn't think so when I wrote his Feste nomination in -05. Some people don't like what they think he is, but he "is what he is." My purpose of the links was to provide a different perspective.

If Nelson Mandela kicked me in the crotch, I'd kick him back.

6

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Author: tenworlds Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1047 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 12:08 PM
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SP is currently #6 of the 50 Fave Fools. He's not there because 789 people think he's a vacuous dumba$$. I certainly didn't think so when I wrote his Feste nomination in -05. Some people don't like what they think he is, but he "is what he is." My purpose of the links was to provide a different perspective.
-----

Dick Cheney is obviously not a 'vacuous dumb@ss' either, but he sure as heck is not even close to being on any of my 'Fave' lists.

I actually initially did have SP as a fave for a while, when I first joined TMF. My main board back then was the Credit Card board.
http://boards.fool.com/Messages.asp?mid=25072847&bid=100145

His financial experience & wisdom was soon overshadowed by his nastiness & cynicism though, and I stopped reading him. I hardly ever saw his posts until this board was introduced and he came to crap all over it.

When I have a choice of having good food at a decent restaurant with considerate clientele, as opposed to good food at some place with foul-mouthed jerks... guess where I'm gonna eat? I don't need the indigestion people like that bring, no matter how smart they may be.



just my perspective


Rich

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Author: montecfo Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1050 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 12:16 PM
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In the meantime, I've had four posts (that questioned SP's 'intentions' here) yanked.

Why not just relax, live, and let live?

Montecfo

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Author: sofaking6 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1052 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 12:19 PM
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OCD: Avoiding everyone who disagrees with my political viewpoint, no matter how much they know about retirement

I don't disagree with SP's political viewpoint. Some parts of it yes, some parts of it no.

Try again, troll.

6

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Author: tenworlds Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1056 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 12:28 PM
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I've also FA'd it -- twice.
Yet there it is.
Is it time for a war?

AM

-----

I'm doing my best to not contribute to nastiness on this board. I'm seriously trying to absorb as much as I can about RE, and to do it.

If F/Aing doesn't work, I'll just have to deal with the grey.





Rich
-not going to war

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Author: OldOne Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1069 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 1:05 PM
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Are you already in your late 50s with no savings (in which case I can understand it)? But if you are still in your 20s or 30s or even your early 40s, I think it is possible that you could retire before 65 (my definition of retiring early).

Some people think retiring early means you retire in your 20s or 30s -- and that's really lucky for them, but most of us can not and were not able to do that. But some of us have managed to retire at least a few years early.


AM:

I have to agreed with you on this one. In my early 40s I had a negative net worth, and am now retiring in two months, just before 62.

Unfortunately for many on this board, it didn't happen through being liberal, or by LBYM either.

It happened through taking personal responsibility. I realized that working extra hours at my job was a fool's errand, all this will do is suck your time away and produce minimal financial reward. It happend through developing a money-making sideline, investing in it, and working in it.

Maybe one could call it LBYM because I increased my available means through more work, but I saved & invested the excess, rather than spending it. Anathema to most liberals, I also reduced my taxes relative to my real income, by putting sweat equity into my sideline. I never felt deprived, because I had the same , or even more, disposable income than my peers, but my real savings rate was quite high. This is not LBYM as I understand the traditional use of the term.

I have never me a self-made millionaire who was liberal. There are plenty of liberal millionaires, but most of them got there through sheer luck, or inheritance. There are many who I have not met, lots of actors, Soros, etc. The problem there is a lot of sheer luck is involved. Intercst was lucky enough to invest in a stock which really took off. He may tell you it was investing skill, but I have never heard him say he ever repeated this feat, so I believe there was a lot of luck in it. Overall, I believe that self-made wealth is overwhelmingly associated with conservatism and personal responsibility.

While there may be a "liberal" plan for early retirement, I have not seen this addressed so far in this thread, and I am not certain there really is a practical one.

I have outlined above one working conservative plan for early retirement, and there are many other practical ones.

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Author: crassfool Big funky green star, 20000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1073 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 1:10 PM
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AngelMay says

Whafa, this post is totally off-topic.
Why are you posting it here?


Har!

Keep on keepin' on, AM.

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Author: mapletree7 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1074 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 1:10 PM
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'll stick my neck out: I think that some hostility toward him may stem from jealousy.

Ridiculous.

Hostility towards SP, cattleman, and others* usually stems from a very natural cause - deliberately provocative behavior.

Hostility towards you, by the way, seems to come from people who just find you annoying without much intent on your part. Perhaps that's why you see SP as a victim.

*me, johnmoni, etc., and OK, maybe cattleman isn't doing it on purpose.


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Author: crassfool Big funky green star, 20000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1075 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 1:12 PM
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Rich says

If F/Aing doesn't work, I'll just have to deal with the grey.

The grey's not so bad. Believe me, this thread reads a whole lot better with grey instead of trolls.

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Author: montecfo Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1076 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 1:12 PM
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Ridiculous.

Hostility towards SP, cattleman, and others* usually stems from a very natural cause - deliberately provocative behavior.


Pardon me for asking, but do you think you might be being a little overly sensitive?

Montecfo
(wondering)


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Author: GusSmed Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1078 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 1:13 PM
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OK, maybe cattleman isn't doing it on purpose.

I'm pretty sure he's doing it on purpose when he posts here. Other places, well, it could just be the bubble he lives in.

- Gus


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Author: mapletree7 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1079 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 1:14 PM
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<i.Ridiculous.

Hostility towards SP, cattleman, and others* usually stems from a very natural cause - deliberately provocative behavior.

Pardon me for asking, but do you think you might be being a little overly sensitive?

Montecfo
(wondering)

Oh right - and montecfo.

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Author: cattleman22 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1080 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 1:14 PM
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{{Other places, well, it could just be the bubble he lives in.}}

What bubble is that? This is the second time I have seen a post about me with regards to a bubble.


c

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Author: GusSmed Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1081 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 1:16 PM
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Oh right - and montecfo.

I sometimes wonder if he ever posts without that intent. Doesn't he have any real interests?

- Gus

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Author: mapletree7 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1082 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 1:16 PM
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Oh right - and montecfo.

I sometimes wonder if he ever posts without that intent. Doesn't he have any real interests?


Arguing is an interest.

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Author: cliff666 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1083 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 1:17 PM
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FY: I think I'll start to follow Whafa's advice and FA troll posts. If they get the Thinking Chair for a time, so much the better.

Dittos.

cliff

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Author: cliff666 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1086 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 1:24 PM
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sissy: But I will un-grey them long enough to FA their posts for the simple reason that since this board was set up deliberately to avoid the conservative/political dreck that now floods the old retire early board

I'm not sure everyone knows that the P-box can be turned on and off at will. Instead of un-boxing someone, just turn the box off temporarily.

It's under edit your profile, favorite/ignored fools.

cliff

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Author: GusSmed Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1087 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 1:24 PM
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Arguing is an interest.

He doesn't argue. He does something that sort of resembles arguing, but is mostly contradiction and misdirection. I can't count the number of times he's refused to answer a direct question, usually saying he's "already answered it" when he's done no such thing, or "I'll answer that when you answer my question," or some other dodge. If I were paying him for an argument, I'd ask for my £5 back.

- Gus

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Author: FordLove Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1088 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 1:26 PM
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If I were paying him for an argument, I'd ask for my £5 back

Sorry Gus
This is abuse

Ford

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Author: 0x6a74 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1090 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 1:37 PM
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I don't think I've ever FA'd a post before, but I think I'm going to start using it on this board.


I don't understand the aversion to the FA feature. You are dealing with people whose only purpose here is to get you to say something they can FA. When you see a post that is inciteful, instead of replying, just FA it.


my aversion is that the standards are so vague and seemingly applied randomly ...
& that the system can be gamed.

it's like running to teacher and whinging "Billy said a NAUGHTY word" or "Billy kicked sand on me!"

kind of childish anyways, but when 'teacher' seems so often to work at the level of robot .. and not notice why Billy kicked sand ...

i just don't do it.

( it can be gamed both ways. eg: is comparing XX to abc really so insulting? even if true? if so, why are the posts that quoted the pulled post still there? And, in this case .... 'everyone' blames XX ... if he didn't have the post pulled, we're unfairly judging him. the FAer has managed to stir up anger on both sides. [ ah! just remembered this happened to me in 3d grade .... someone ran to teacher and said, "Billy [me] called Timmy a t**d" ...teacher smacked ME ... not knowing that Timmy & i were friends, and jokingly calling each other all sorts of silly names ..dating myself ]
)

if others think they can use the feature for Good ....i'm fine with that, but ain't gonna do it.


-
...o, and i think some levels of vile should be left for ALL to see. ..

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Author: tenworlds Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1091 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 1:44 PM
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I have never me a self-made millionaire who was liberal. There are plenty of liberal millionaires, but most of them got there through sheer luck, or inheritance. There are many who I have not met, lots of actors, Soros, etc. The problem there is a lot of sheer luck is involved. Intercst was lucky enough to invest in a stock which really took off. He may tell you it was investing skill, but I have never heard him say he ever repeated this feat, so I believe there was a lot of luck in it. Overall, I believe that self-made wealth is overwhelmingly associated with conservatism and personal responsibility.
-----
Wow... just, wow.

My mother happens to be a self-made millionaire and as liberal as you can imagine. She worked, saved & invested, all the while raising seven kids. I guess you could consider it 'lucky' if you knew her motto was something like, 'The harder I work, the luckier I get'.

Do you suppose GW Bush 'worked' for his millions?



While there may be a "liberal" plan for early retirement, I have not seen this addressed so far in this thread, and I am not certain there really is a practical one.
I have outlined above one working conservative plan for early retirement, and there are many other practical ones.

-----
I don't understand what's so 'conservative' about this. I was in the same shape in my early forty's and did the same 'sideline' thing (lawn care). Having broken my back and needing surgery I won't be doing that anymore, but I'll be 59 next month, looking to RE (hopefully) by the end of this year, and one o' them dadburned liberals.

Merely because a 'conservative' happens to be the one who devises a plan that works, doesn't necessarily make it a 'conservative' plan.

'Liberal' is a word that has been so vilified by today's conservatives that it is almost meaningless except for using it to insult and disparage.

A plan that accomplishes your goals is just a good plan, that's all.

Congratulations on your retirement.





Rich
-a responsible liberal planning to retire at 59½, after having a negative net worth at 45 years of age.

Just lucky I guess.

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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1092 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 1:46 PM
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<<
If Nelson Mandela kicked me in the crotch, I'd kick him back.

6
>>


Yes, I think you just isolated the difference between you and Nelson Mandella very well.





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Author: cliff666 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1094 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 1:46 PM
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I F/A'd this one
http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=25139099
which is as inciteful, hateful, and as insulting to liberals in general here as you can get, and still it stands.

Good. I just did the same. Anyone else?

cliff

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Author: joseph714 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1095 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 1:47 PM
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...o, and i think some levels of vile should be left for ALL to see.

Ox6a74
-----------------

I will certainly agree with this. It seems we humans can better learn via compare & contrast.

The trick is to not get caught in "the game" the player puts out with the fishing pole. Simple ignoring the players sooner than later causes them to get tired & they go off to somewhere else to foist what it is that they do.

Free speech is one of our last bastions of what is left of the constitution. Or at least a remnant of free speech.

By the way, I am one of those liberal leaning types who has economically lived within my means & am in a position to "retire" with enough capital for myself & friends whenever I so choose.

Thing is I will never stop working & learning. This by choice.











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Author: Gingko100 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1098 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 1:50 PM
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I have never me a self-made millionaire who was liberal. There are plenty of liberal millionaires, but most of them got there through sheer luck, or inheritance..(snip)...Overall, I believe that self-made wealth is overwhelmingly associated with conservatism and personal responsibility.

Do you actually know any liberals at all? This is a vast generalization. What you believe, and what the reality is are two very different things.

I am a self-made millionaire (just barely, but I am there). I work very, very hard. I do believe working more hours pays off - I just work for myself so they are billable hours. I am liberal AND take personal responsibility.

I also try not to make blathering generalizations about vast categories of people based on my own personal prejudices. That is also taking personal responsibility.

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Author: cattleman22 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1099 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 1:51 PM
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{{Free speech is one of our last bastions of what is left of the constitution. Or at least a remnant of free speech.}}

No, thanks in part to GWB, we still have a bation of our Constitution remaining with regards to the right to bear arms.


c

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Author: tenworlds Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1102 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 1:57 PM
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Oh right - and montecfo.
I sometimes wonder if he ever posts without that intent. Doesn't he have any real interests?


Arguing is an interest.

-----

What's that got to do with him?

Is mere groundless gainsaying the same as arguing?






Rich

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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1103 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 2:02 PM
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<<I F/A'd this one
http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=25139099
which is as inciteful, hateful, and as insulting to liberals in general here as you can get, and still it stands.

Good. I just did the same. Anyone else?

cliff
>>


This is a diverse and multicultural society these days. You folks need to recognize that.


There is nothing that is inciteful and hateful in the post you reference, it merely discusses ideas with which you presumably disagree.

I imagine that's why it's still there.



Seattle Pioneer

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Author: tenworlds Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1105 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 2:04 PM
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I'm not sure everyone knows that the P-box can be turned on and off at will. Instead of un-boxing someone, just turn the box off temporarily.
It's under edit your profile, favorite/ignored fools.
cliff

-----

But if someone is in the box, you don't know there is an F/A-able post unless you see the echo, or someone tells the board in general about it. In which case you just go to the post, click the blue 'here' in the message, F/A the post, then re-p-box 'em.


Be nice if they just butted out altogether though.




Rich

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Author: whafa Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1107 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 2:07 PM
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There is nothing that is inciteful and hateful in the post you reference, it merely discusses ideas with which you presumably disagree.

I imagine that's why it's still there.


But do you understand that it is an inconsiderate post, when a group of people have specifically requested to be left alone?

Do you understand that you are being inconsiderate when you post questions here about the ethics of liberal early retirement that are designed to create the type of dialogue this board was specifically created to avoid?

Do you care?



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Author: tenworlds Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1109 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 2:08 PM
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If I were paying him for an argument, I'd ask for my £5 back.
- Gus

-----

Obviously someone mis-directed you to the 'Abuse' section. 'Arguments' is just down the hall.








Rich
-thinking sometimes the 'M' in TMF is for the flying circus


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Author: tenworlds Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1111 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 2:09 PM
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Sorry Gus
This is abuse
Ford

-----

Rats! Greeked.


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Author: 0x6a74 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1114 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 2:11 PM
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Wouldn't you normally want to stay on a board where everyone loves you?


i can only imagine.

there's no board where if i left for a day, there'd be a 300 post thread, "come back little 0x"

(>:


Why would you come to a board that is obviously not one that shares your politics -- unless all you wanted to do is stir up trouble?



i can imagine .... i might learn something from the other side (, i lurk at several boards where i'd be a troll if i posted ...may in fact Be a troll from my two or three posts)
or i might sometimes have something useful to say (since i worked as a Muni Bond lawyer for a while, i might know something about Munis the others don't know ...i'd just have to find a polite way of saying so).



-



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Author: vickifool Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1115 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 2:11 PM
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Unfortunately for many on this board, it didn't happen through being liberal, or by LBYM either.

It happened through taking personal responsibility. I realized that working extra hours at my job was a fool's errand, all this will do is suck your time away and produce minimal financial reward. It happend through developing a money-making sideline, investing in it, and working in it.

Maybe one could call it LBYM because I increased my available means through more work, but I saved & invested the excess, rather than spending it. Anathema to most liberals, I also reduced my taxes relative to my real income, by putting sweat equity into my sideline.


OldOne, I'd call that liberal. Here's the definition from answers.com


ib·er·al (lĭb'ər-əl, lĭb'rəl) pronunciation
adj.

1.
1. Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry.
2. Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded.


http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery?s=liberal&gwp=13

You didn't limit yourself to the traditional dogma that working harder at your job would be the only route to getting ahead. You were open to new ideas for progress.

Good for you, you old liberal, you!

Vickifool

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Author: cliff666 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1117 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 2:13 PM
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You state that you haven't met any self made millionare liberals,

Well, there' always Bill Gates. And me.

cliff

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Author: montecfo Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1121 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 2:18 PM
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Oh right - and montecfo.

I sometimes wonder if he ever posts without that intent. Doesn't he have any real interests?

Come on. My interests include the following, all of which I have posted on:

education
personal finance
atheism and other religious thought
evolution
early retirement
arranging dates
sports
business

and many many more.

I think it certainly beats bellyaching about politics and blaming others for one's station in life.

Montecfo


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Author: tenworlds Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1123 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 2:18 PM
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I F/A'd this one
http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=25139099
which is as inciteful, hateful, and as insulting to liberals in general here as you can get, and still it stands.


Good. I just did the same. Anyone else?
cliff

-----

AM did, I'm guessing 6 did (I think it falls within her F/A criteria). I thought there were one or two others. Maybe waffle.

And yet it remains.

Maybe TMF just reminding who's the boss of us?





Rich

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Author: montecfo Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1124 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 2:18 PM
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Arguing is an interest.

No, it isn't.


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Author: cattleman22 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1125 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 2:20 PM
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{{AM did, I'm guessing 6 did (I think it falls within her F/A criteria). I thought there were one or two others. Maybe waffle.

And yet it remains.

Maybe TMF just reminding who's the boss of us?}}


there is nothing FA worthy about that post. It seems irrational to expect for that post to be pulled, no matter how many people FA it.


c

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Author: 0x6a74 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1127 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 2:22 PM
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However, that troll has a long history of going BSC in certain forums, LBYM being one,
<>

Hence, I p-box. Yeah, I might miss some useful information. There's other sources for it. Life's too short. Why wait to step on a big, stinky verbal t***?


BSC?


=

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Author: tenworlds Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1129 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 2:23 PM
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joseph714: By the way, I am one of those liberal leaning types who has economically lived within my means & am in a position to "retire" with enough capital for myself & friends whenever I so choose.
-----

Nothin' but luck pal, nothin' but luck. Liberals only get where you are by sheer luck.

see: http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=25141857






Rich

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Author: whafa Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1130 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 2:23 PM
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AM did, I'm guessing 6 did (I think it falls within her F/A criteria). I thought there were one or two others. Maybe waffle.


I did, but if I were a TMF censor, I probably wouldn't remove that post. They tend to remove things that are more personal and that post was more general.

Still, it's a numbers game. If you bring every post to their attention, some will get pulled.

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Author: montecfo Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1131 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 2:24 PM
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He doesn't argue. He does something that sort of resembles arguing, but is mostly contradiction and misdirection. I can't count the number of times he's refused to answer a direct question, usually saying he's "already answered it" when he's done no such thing, or "I'll answer that when you answer my question," or some other dodge. If I were paying him for an argument, I'd ask for my £5 back.

I would be happy to as soon as you give me back the 10 I already gave you. ;)

Montecfo
(ok I admit it is entertaining to joust with Gus. And it is entertaining to debate folks who are certain of their position to the point of dogmatism, yet cannot explain the logical basis for it (Not meaning to specify any individual).Certainly such discussions are consistently civil on my part. Why not? Life is too short).




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Author: cattleman22 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1132 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 2:24 PM
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{{BSC?}}


bat sh*t crazy



c

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Author: sofaking6 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1133 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 2:26 PM
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And yet it remains.

Maybe TMF just reminding who's the boss of us?


Maybe Twitty's home sick today? None of my posts have been pulled and I guarantee you that at least a couple have been troll-FA'd.

6

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Author: montecfo Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1134 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 2:26 PM
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Yes. And to those who thinks liberals do not know how to save for retirement, those 250 thousand benjamins say you are wrong.

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Author: cliff666 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1137 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 2:27 PM
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Maybe Twitty's home sick today? None of my posts have been pulled and I guarantee you that at least a couple have been troll-FA'd.

6

Well, c-man got to one of mine today.

cliff

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Author: 0x6a74 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1138 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 2:28 PM
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quite likely to be both on my fave list and in my p-box, depending on his behaviour.



that would be Pain.

.since one can't be on both lists at the same time. have to remove them from faves to box 'em.


=

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Author: tenworlds Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1140 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 2:31 PM
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You state that you haven't met any self made millionare liberals,

Well, there' always Bill Gates. And me.
cliff

-----

Oh pffft... you guys were just lucky. Y'know, like Soros.





Rich

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Author: cattleman22 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1145 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 2:34 PM
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{{Thank you for your in-depth and valuable commentary, Evil Cow Spock.}}


You are right, sometimes it does take an evil conservative to point out logic that a liberal is missing, like in this case. ;)


c

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Author: vickifool Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1146 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 2:35 PM
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quite likely to be both on my fave list and in my p-box, depending on his behaviour.



that would be Pain.

.since one can't be on both lists at the same time. have to remove them from faves to box 'em.


That's the worst thing.
I don't really mind the bad/mean/bigoted posts. It's the pearls mixed with the manure.

Vickifool

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Author: tenworlds Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1149 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 2:37 PM
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Maybe Twitty's home sick today? None of my posts have been pulled and I guarantee you that at least a couple have been troll-FA'd.
6

-----

He's not the only one. Aruba Tony has the power too.





Rich

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Author: 0x6a74 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1151 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 2:39 PM
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'Inciteful' doesn't seem to break the roolz. I F/A'd this one
http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=25139099
which is as inciteful, hateful, and as insulting to liberals in general here as you can get, and still it stands.

In the meantime, I've had four posts (that questioned **'s 'intentions' here) yanked.


ICK!!!!

you made me look.....

... insulting perhaps. but delivered in calm words (no potty-mouth)

big difference in Roolz depending on tone.
big difference in Roolz if you insult a non-protected class vs an individual


-
..... the FA system is was and Ever shall be a Joke. Not worth messin' with ,IMO

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Author: sykesix Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1152 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 2:40 PM
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if Nelson Mandela kicked me in the crotch, I'd kick him back.

6
>>


Yes, I think you just isolated the difference between you and Nelson Mandella very well.


"Our resort to the armed struggle in 1960 with the formation of the military wing of the ANC was a purely defensive action against the violence of apartheid. The factors which necessitated the armed struggle still exist today. We have no option but to continue. We express the hope that a climate conducive to a negotiated settlement would be created soon, so that there may no longer be the need for the armed struggle."

--Nelson Mandela, upon being released from prison.


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Author: joseph714 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1154 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 2:42 PM
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joseph714: By the way, I am one of those liberal leaning types who has economically lived within my means & am in a position to "retire" with enough capital for myself & friends whenever I so choose.
-----

Nothin' but luck pal, nothin' but luck. Liberals only get where you are by sheer luck.
----------------------
Oh, the sarcastic irony of it all.

Well, indeed in some of my long & short term investment / trades there was abit of that odd thing that seems beyond ones "control" - luck.

Or is it luck after all.

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Author: MDGluon Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1155 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 2:43 PM
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This is a diverse and multicultural society these days. You folks need to recognize that.

Assumption with no data.

There is nothing that is inciteful and hateful in the post you reference, it merely discusses ideas with which you presumably disagree.


Incorrect....both what is said and how it is said define inciteful and hateful. Pejoratives need not be normal curse words.

I imagine that's why it's still there.

Seattle Pioneer


Unknown...possible...not the point.

Why are you posting here?

md


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Author: jgc123 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1157 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 2:48 PM
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Ox:

"ICK!!!!

you made me look....."

Me too. If the poster believed his own stereotypes about liberals, and does not recognize the degree to which his post is a vapid stereotype, then it is arguably not inciteful. At least not intentionally so. But what good can be accomplished by talking to people who can only think in stereotypes? I understand the trolls better than the respondents. The respondents should know better.


"..... the FA system is was and Ever shall be a Joke. Not worth messin' with ,IMO" I agree. The only cure is to respond to substantive posts that merit a response and to step over and around the turds on the carpet.



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Author: 0x6a74 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1163 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 2:55 PM
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I'm not sure everyone knows that the P-box can be turned on and off at will. Instead of un-boxing someone, just turn the box off temporarily.


just the thought of letting all those crazies (i've thousands in my P-box) loose at one time would give me nightmares.


(>:

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Author: MDGluon Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1164 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 2:56 PM
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You state that you haven't met any self made millionare liberals,

Well, there' always Bill Gates. And me.
cliff
-----

Oh pffft... you guys were just lucky. Y'know, like Soros.

Rich
----------------


Didn't he escape from Commie Yugoslavia after eating his bootstraps...or something like that.

md (Better to be lucky and good...but lucky is still ok)

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Author: 0x6a74 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1175 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 3:14 PM
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They will pull posts for having the single objective of stirring ***s.


but only if that's the *single* objective...

and since that's subjective -- it's a carp-shoot.


=

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Author: 0x6a74 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1176 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 3:15 PM
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Well, there' always Bill Gates. And me.
cliff
-----

Oh pffft... you guys were just lucky.


luck ..and their young wives.



=b

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Author: tootru Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1180 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 3:20 PM
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there's no board where if i left for a day, there'd be a 300 post thread, "come back little 0x"

If I had a board that was frequented daily, and you were a regular poster to that hypothetical board and if you left said board, I would personally post 300 messages entreating you to return.

Life without bears, squirrels and crows (among other things) would be downright sad.

t.

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Author: tootru Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1181 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 3:22 PM
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You state that you haven't met any self made millionare liberals,

Well, there' always Bill Gates. And me.

cliff


Dad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Author: DufusGoneSplat Big red star, 1000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1187 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 3:36 PM
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So what's different in the way liberals expect to get to early retirement? A vegetarian diet? Socially conscious mutual funds? Growing medically necessary pot at home?

Please supplement my poor imagination with your own distinctively liberal methods and approaches.


Well, I got into early retirement by quitting work. Yep – quitting – or fired – who cares? Anyway I'm done. Retired. And then I got on welfare and milked the system – or should I say systems. Food stamps, housing assistance, training …. Well, you get the picture. Of course, all those goody two-shoes organizations want to make my life better, so they give me money and food and stuff. In my spare time I would hang around intersections with my cardboard sign. I don't pay taxes on the earnings from being a mendicant. But I do file my returns. I get all that “earned income credit” and other stuff my friend, the imaginative account, can come up with. And that pot I grow? While I personally don't have medical needs, there certainly are a lot of people that do. Anyway, that's how I did it – and you can too! Retired life is good!


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Author: markr33 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1197 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 3:45 PM
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I have never met a self-made millionaire who was liberal.

Well, then come meet me someday. Self-made, first person in extended family to be born in the USA, first person in extended family to have ever attended college, first person in extended family to have ever attended graduate school.

There are plenty of liberal millionaires, but most of them got there through sheer luck, or inheritance.

What a load of crap. There are so many examples that soundly refute this, and additional anecdotal data has illustrated to me that liberals have just as much prowess in earning money (or in business) as conservatives do, maybe even more.

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Author: sykesix Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1209 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 3:58 PM
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Liberals do not scare me, their desires and policies do.

Because if gays are allowed to marry you might become gay yourself?

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Author: cattleman22 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1212 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 4:03 PM
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No, because if the government takes all of the guns, only crooks will have guns.


c

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Author: sissylue Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1213 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 4:04 PM
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In the meantime, I've had four posts (that questioned SP's 'intentions' here) yanked.

The contents of those four posts should have been more properly placed in the "Comments" box provided for your use when you FA a post. That is what I have been doing. From now on instead of posting a reply to the posters I had to ungray I am putting my reply or a modification of my reply in the comments box before sending it on its merry way to the Fool Censors. Do not engage a poster or even comment on that poster who has made an inappropriate post. FA the post and if you must vent or speculate do so in the comments box. I'm sure the FA Censors really enjoy reading our thoughtful insights and analysis of trollish behaviour.

This will be an interesting experiment inasmuch as this is the only board I have ever FA'd posts (other than my own posts which I wished removed for whatever reason) and if I read other people's posts correctly it will be an unusual step for them to take as well, the FA'ing of posts. I would like to see how the board shapes up using that particular tool appropriately.


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Author: johnmoni Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1215 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 4:04 PM
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Since when is my behavior "deliberately provocative?"

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Author: tootru Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1218 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 4:09 PM
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"If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns."

Edward Abbey

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Author: cattleman22 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1220 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 4:15 PM
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{{"If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns."}}


That is why I said crooks would have guns.


c

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Author: mapletree7 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1223 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 4:18 PM
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Since when is my behavior "deliberately provocative?"

Don't be modest.

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Author: cattleman22 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1224 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 4:19 PM
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You better be careful, the tolerant liberals on this board may FA you for reading and responding to posters who have non liberal group think.


c

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Author: Gingko100 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1225 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 4:20 PM
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"If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns."

Edward Abbey


And this relates to retirement exactly how??????????????



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Author: tootru Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1246 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 5:34 PM
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And this relates to retirement exactly how??????????????

Aw fcuk it. I give up. It doesn't. It was just something that popped up to the top of my brain when I read the post to which I was responding - attempting to maintain my sense of humor about things.



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Author: 0x6a74 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1251 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 6:05 PM
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I give up. It doesn't. It was just something that popped up to the top of my brain when I read the post to which I was responding - attempting to maintain my sense of humor about things.


it's a new board.

new mix of folkers.

.... going to take a while to sort out who's obnoxious, who's clueless and who's humourless.


-b
... ie, DONT give up ..... meanwhile, best to

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Author: tenworlds Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1261 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 6:54 PM
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Liberals do not scare me, their desires and policies do.

Because if gays are allowed to marry you might become gay yourself?

-----

Or out of the closet. Then he'd have to depend on 'luck' to get his millions. Liberace knows, gays don't have what it takes to invest wisely enough to accumulate money for retirement.




Rich

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Author: MDGluon Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1262 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 6:57 PM
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There are so many examples that soundly refute this, and additional anecdotal data has illustrated to me that liberals have just as much prowess in earning money (or in business) as conservatives do, maybe even more.

<Shhhhh> Great myths are not to popped, facts and data have a darned liberal bias so leave the myths be, let them be cherished and then used to liberate money from those that desire to believe them.

md ("Sacred Cows" makes the best hamburgers)



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Author: tenworlds Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1265 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 7:00 PM
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johnmoni: Since when is my behavior "deliberately provocative?"
-----

Lessee, since May 30, 1999 ?

;-)






Rich

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Author: sofaking6 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1266 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 7:01 PM
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Liberace knows, gays don't have what it takes to invest wisely enough to accumulate money for retirement.


I'm trying to get adopted by a gay couple, because I want their million dollar downtown SD condo AND their ranch in Borrego.

Frankly, I wouldn't mind inheriting the ski lodge either.

6

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Author: LtUhura Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1275 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 7:11 PM
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I have never me a self-made millionaire who was liberal.

I have. Several, in fact.

Uhura

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Author: LtUhura Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1279 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 7:17 PM
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BSC?

Bat s*** crazy.

Uhura
helpful

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Author: 0x6a74 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1280 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 7:20 PM
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BSC?

Bat s*** crazy.

Uhura


thanks....

my army training gave me the S ......but not the B and C


-b
..... haven't seen you around for a while ..good to see you again

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Author: Goofyhoofy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1281 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 7:30 PM
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I have never me a self-made millionaire who was liberal. There are plenty of liberal millionaires, but most of them got there through sheer luck, or inheritance

Hi. Nice to meet you.

I have no inheritance; both my parents are still alive, at ages 86 and 88.

I went to college, and paid for part of it myself. My parents paid the rest. My first job out was making $110 a week, and I bounced around the tall grass of New Hampshire and Maine and Massachusetts for 8 years making more or less the same.

I went to work in corporate America (Westinghouse) and rose through the ranks, until I was General Manager of a Business Unit. I bought a house, sold it when transferred, bought another, and so on, four times. I spent a lot less than I earned, and I am now a millionaire. Not to put too fine a point on it, but Mrs. Goofy is also a millionaire. Not to put a really really fine point on it, but my dog, if he could sign his name, would also be a millionaire. We have 7 cats. They are not all millionaires, although we have hopes for them.

We made most of what we have through salary, bonuses, and saving. That said, we did not skimp; we didn't pull our washing machine out of the dump, nor look in rainbarrels for our washwater.

Overall, I believe that self-made wealth is overwhelmingly associated with conservatism and personal responsibility.

"Conservatism" has nothing to do with it. "Personal responsibility" surely does, but somehow you think that people who are liberal cannot also have that trait. How sad for you, that you have fallen into the stereotyping of people - and so incorrectly, too.

While there may be a "liberal" plan for early retirement, I have not seen this addressed so far in this thread, and I am not certain there really is a practical one.

On this we agree, except I don't strut around saying "Oh, I'm self made, so the rest of you can go to hell." I had a lot of shoulders to stand on. I was born white, and to middle class parents who cared. I happened to live in a very good school district, which prepared me for college, which prepared me to work in a giant American corporation. I "saw" values every day, I wasn't burdened by negative culture, or skin color, or wondering where my next meal was coming from. I didn't have an older brother who was a drug addict, nor a younger sister with some incurable disease which sucked up all the family savings.

Some people do. That doesn't excuse a lot of antisocial behavior, but it certainly explains some of it, and so I am somewhat empathetic to those who have all of those additional hurdles to cross just to get to the starting line, where life dropped me with a free pass, of sorts.

That's "luck", too, of course, just not the "intrcst won the stock market lottery with Dell" type you're moaning about. Some people have one kind, some people have another - and some get none at all. That's life. I have some sympathy for those who fall into category #3. Most "Conservatives" I have noticed do not and I'm not sure that's a very admirable trait.

In fact, I'm sure it is not.
 


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Author: ogrecat Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1286 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 8:19 PM
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I have no inheritance; both my parents are still alive, at ages 86 and 88.

I went to college, and paid for part of it myself. My parents paid the rest. My first job out was making $110 a week, and I bounced around the tall grass of New Hampshire and Maine and Massachusetts for 8 years making more or less the same.

I went to work in corporate America (Westinghouse) and rose through the ranks, until I was General Manager of a Business Unit. I bought a house, sold it when transferred, bought another, and so on, four times. I spent a lot less than I earned, and I am now a millionaire. Not to put too fine a point on it, but Mrs. Goofy is also a millionaire. Not to put a really really fine point on it, but my dog, if he could sign his name, would also be a millionaire. We have 7 cats. They are not all millionaires, although we have hopes for them.

We made most of what we have through salary, bonuses, and saving. That said, we did not skimp; we didn't pull our washing machine out of the dump, nor look in rainbarrels for our washwater.


No inheritance here.

Born white (a definite advantage right there) to a father educated by GI Bill; good public schools; state college on state scholarship, summer employment in Catskill resorts, small federal loan.

Always saved & LBMM, worked for USAF as mainframe programmer; took early retirement offer when I realized I could live on 1/3 of working pay.

As of February 1 - car is 18 years old.

Many would consider my standard of living to be skimping, but I enjoy it.

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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1288 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 8:26 PM
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<<But do you understand that it is an inconsiderate post, when a group of people have specifically requested to be left alone?

Do you understand that you are being inconsiderate when you post questions here about the ethics of liberal early retirement that are designed to create the type of dialogue this board was specifically created to avoid?

Do you care?

>>


I post on the ethics of early retirement for liberals seems very much on topic, while yours is not.



Seattle Pioneer

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Author: jgc123 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1290 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 8:34 PM
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Trollposteer:

"While there may be a "liberal" plan for early retirement, I have not seen this addressed so far in this thread, and I am not certain there really is a practical one.

Goofy:

"On this we agree, except I don't strut around saying "Oh, I'm self made, so the rest of you can go to hell." I had a lot of shoulders to stand on. I was born white, and to middle class parents who cared. I happened to live in a very good school district, which prepared me for college, which prepared me to work in a giant American corporation. I "saw" values every day, I wasn't burdened by negative culture, or skin color, or wondering where my next meal was coming from. I didn't have an older brother who was a drug addict, nor a younger sister with some incurable disease which sucked up all the family savings.

"Some people do. That doesn't excuse a lot of antisocial behavior, but it certainly explains some of it, and so I am somewhat empathetic to those who have all of those additional hurdles to cross just to get to the starting line, where life dropped me with a free pass, of sorts.

"That's "luck", too, of course, just not the "intrcst won the stock market lottery with Dell" type you're moaning about. Some people have one kind, some people have another - and some get none at all. That's life. I have some sympathy for those who fall into category #3. Most "Conservatives" I have noticed do not and I'm not sure that's a very admirable trait.


You spoke well for me too, Goofy.

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Author: intercst Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1293 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 8:38 PM
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Goofyhoofy writes,

That's "luck", too, of course, just not the "intrcst won the stock market lottery with Dell" type you're moaning about. Some people have one kind, some people have another - and some get none at all. That's life. I have some sympathy for those who fall into category #3. Most "Conservatives" I have noticed do not and I'm not sure that's a very admirable trait.

</snip>


Not to put too fine a point on it, but my investment in DELL was about a 3-bagger when I retired in 1994. It wasn't until after I retired that DELL grew exponentially and propelled me into the ranks of the multi-millionaires.

Prior to my retirement at age 38, my investment portfolio only beat the return on the S&P500 by about 1% per year over the previous decade. Living frugally and saving a large portion of my salary (50% of my gross salary the last 3 or 4 years I was working) had much more to do with being able to retire early rather than extraordinary investment returns.

intercst



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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1299 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 8:56 PM
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<<
Well, I got into early retirement by quitting work. Yep – quitting – or fired – who cares? Anyway I'm done. Retired. And then I got on welfare and milked the system – or should I say systems. Food stamps, housing assistance, training …. Well, you get the picture. Of course, all those goody two-shoes organizations want to make my life better, so they give me money and food and stuff. In my spare time I would hang around intersections with my cardboard sign. I don't pay taxes on the earnings from being a mendicant. But I do file my returns. I get all that “earned income credit” and other stuff my friend, the imaginative account, can come up with. And that pot I grow? While I personally don't have medical needs, there certainly are a lot of people that do. Anyway, that's how I did it – and you can too! Retired life is good!
>>


Heh, heh! It sounds like you have early retirement down to a science.


Just one comment, you don't have to pay taxes on the gifts you receive at the vurb.


Seattle Pioneer

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Author: vickifool Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1307 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 9:16 PM
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Prior to my retirement at age 38, my investment portfolio only beat the return on the S&P500 by about 1% per year over the previous decade. Living frugally and saving a large portion of my salary (50% of my gross salary the last 3 or 4 years I was working) had much more to do with being able to retire early rather than extraordinary investment returns.

intercst


Have a holographic rec. I'm out of the other kind for today.

Vickifool

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Author: GusSmed Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1311 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 9:24 PM
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Have a holographic rec. I'm out of the other kind for today.

All this activity on RELE has been destroying my rec allowance. It's probably a sign I need to get a life.

- Gus

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Author: whafa Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1320 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 10:33 PM
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I post on the ethics of early retirement for liberals seems very much on topic, while yours is not.


On topic or not, I am going to ask again, because I actually respect a lot of what you have to say and I would like an honest answer instead of the run around that you just gave me:

Do you understand that you are being inconsiderate when you post questions here about the ethics of liberal early retirement that are designed to create the type of dialogue this board was specifically created to avoid?

Do you care?


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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1325 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/7/2007 11:24 PM
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<<I post on the ethics of early retirement for liberals seems very much on topic, while yours is not.


On topic or not, I am going to ask again, because I actually respect a lot of what you have to say and I would like an honest answer instead of the run around that you just gave me:

Do you understand that you are being inconsiderate when you post questions here about the ethics of liberal early retirement that are designed to create the type of dialogue this board was specifically created to avoid?
>>


If you read the threads I've started, including this one, I think any fair minded person would see serious questions and issues being raised. That has certainly been my intent.


Then read through the replies. In each there are a very few thoughtful replies, with an overwhelming torrent of abusive posts, rather often characterized by crude and vulgar language.


So no, I do not understand that honest questions about the ethics of early retirement by those with liberal values is IN ANY WAY inconsiderate on a liberal early retirement board.

And my intent was to discuss the issues I posed in a serious way. I think you will find that every person who has done me the honor of making a serious reply to my questions has received a serious and couteous reply, and that includes your post.


I might add that my experience on the discussion board formerly known as REHP INVARIABLY welcomed new people posting honest questions about early retirement, and pretty much always got thoughtful replies aimed to answer people's questions.


People entering political threads on that board might well find a different kind of warm welcome, and perhaps that is unfortunate.


But I have to say that this board is a failure after only a very few days, and perhaps should be regarded as a danger to the Fool, since new people posting honest questions about retirement on this board are apparently likely to be greeted with vile abuse rather than any kind of encouragement.


It's too bad, too. If I sat down and researched it a bit, I'm sure I could find a considerable variety of distinctively liberal ways to save for, invest for and plan for early retirement. The very idea of escaping the rat race to personal freedom and liberty is one that should be embraced by those on this board.

Franklin Roosevelt had a distinctively liberal approach to retirement ---he called it Social Security. Too bad the liberals on this board have forgotten their historic heritage that helped create the very idea of retirement, and apparently can't even imagine alternatives to the grasping Republican approach of saving and investing that permits only an elite few to achieve early retirement.


I'll just mention a couple of other ditinctively liberal approaches to early retirement that no one here bothered to think of in reply to my initial post on this thread:


1) Paying pro rated Social Security benefits at age 62

2) 401K and IRA plans which permit withdrawals without penalty for those retiring early at age 59 1/2 and even for those retiring earlier if they follow IRA guideline for substantially equal annual withdrawals.


Unfortunately, quite a few people acting in gross and obnoxious ways on this board probably don't have the slightest knowledge of how to escape the rat race of kissing the....er, ring of the boss until age 67 or whatever. If they would pay attention and start learning thinking and planning they might earn for themselves the enormous boon of free time to pursue the liberty provided by early retirement, instead of jerking off with senseless posts.

I suppose another issue that liberals should answer is whether liberals should support and encourage early retirement at all. After all, it's really enjoyed primarily by those who have enjoyed good fortune for decades and relatively generous incomes, which probably means that enouraging early retirement means encouraging early retirement disproportionately for we grasping Republicans. Do liberals really want to do that?

Personally, I'm not in favor of government subsidies for early retirement, and would prefer to do away with making Social Security benefits available at age 62. Save the money to pay benefits at the normal retirement age, rather than to millionaires like intercst and I.


But I already know what I think about early retirement. My questions have been to find out WHAT DO LIBERALS THINK ABOUT EARLY RETIREMENT?


Frankly, I think it's a serious question, and I'm very disappointed that there appear to be so many empty headed liberals on this board. When I was a liberal from 1965-1985 (with time out for radicalism for a time) I was very impressed with how smart liberals were as a group. Judging by posts on this board, liberalism has fallen far, since I got out.


So here's a challenge liberals: redeem yourselves! What do you really think about early retirement?



<<Do you care?

>>


You should be able to answer that question now.




Seattle Pioneer





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Author: Gingko100 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1329 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/8/2007 12:11 AM
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After all, it's really enjoyed primarily by those who have enjoyed good fortune for decades and relatively generous incomes, which probably means that enouraging early retirement means encouraging early retirement disproportionately for we grasping Republicans.

SP: I feel I already addressed your core question, but I have to come back to this idea that only conservatives or Repiblicans get the joys of RE. It's just so silly.

There are plenty of well-off liberals. Many of whom retire early. Having or acquiring wealth is not limited by political party or outlook. Mainly I think it depends on the flavor of one's community. Where I grew up (the northeast) and where I now live (San Francisco) were very liberal communities, full of well-off liberals. Some retired, some semi-retired, some working hard. I think if one went to Utah one could probably say exactly the same about conservatives there. There happen to be a lot of liberals here and conservatives there. I can't see it affects people's desire to be financially independent.

First and foremost - Supporting RE is an individual endeavor. It's a hard-won battle each of us makes. It's not a party fight, a political struggle, a reflection on political identity or anything else. It's hard work and savings. I really don't know anyone at all who approaches it through a political lens.

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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1330 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/8/2007 1:01 AM
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<<SP: I feel I already addressed your core question, but I have to come back to this idea that only conservatives or Repiblicans get the joys of RE. It's just so silly.

There are plenty of well-off liberals. Many of whom retire early. Having or acquiring wealth is not limited by political party or outlook. Mainly I think it depends on the flavor of one's community. Where I grew up (the northeast) and where I now live (San Francisco) were very liberal communities, full of well-off liberals. Some retired, some semi-retired, some working hard. I think if one went to Utah one could probably say exactly the same about conservatives there. There happen to be a lot of liberals here and conservatives there. I can't see it affects people's desire to be financially independent.
>>


Point taken. But should public policy encourage early retirement?

The 'boomer generation is already beginning to drop out of the labor force in droves (by the end of May, for me), and that is going to leave a lot of empty slots in the labor force that are going to be difficult to fill.

Secondly, grasping liberals and grasping conservatives who retire early are going to be disproportionately high wealth individuals ---should that be subsidized by the likes of Social Security benefits at age 62?


On the other hand, a lot of older workers are displaced from the labor force, financially prepared for retirement or not.


Personally, I favor means testing Social Security, which might allow early retirement benefits that would not subsidize wealthy early retirees.

Perhaps my liberal friends can give me some guidance on this kind of complicated issue. SHOULD government have a policy of encouraging early retirement?



Seattle Pioneer







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Author: cliff666 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1331 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/8/2007 1:40 AM
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SP (regarding Social Security.): Perhaps my liberal friends can give me some guidance on this kind of complicated issue. SHOULD government have a policy of encouraging early retirement?

As a matter of fact that was one of the primary purposes of Social Security when it was started in the Great Depression. Get the older workers out of the work force to make jobs for younger ones, many of whom were unemployed at the time. That's one of the features of a Depression, you may recall from your history classes. Of course there was also the intention to get some money flowing in the country's monetary system. Rather like priming the pump, to coin a phrase (exactly as that great liberal, FDR, said.)

That part of Social Security (to get older workers to stop working) seems to have been forgotten. By letting people draw Social Security at their retirement age, even if they continue to be employed is antithetical to the original intent.

The fact is that all the goods and services in the US are produced by a minority of the people, including those with jobs. Much, if not most, of the "work" done nowadays is just so much paperwork. Very few workers actually do anything really necessary. You may be one of those that actually contribute something of real value. The rest are on a giant WPA program. All insurance, most banking, government, and many other "useful" jobs are just moving paper from one pile to another, or shuffling electronic data. The reason is just for bookkeeping. Useless otherwise, if you think about it.

This liberal diatribe is just by way of saying that we really don't need all those workers, nor the "work" that they so proudly contribute (all the while disdaining the "welfare queens" who actually contribute about as much useful output as they do).

I thought you might like to see what a real liberal concept is, as compared to your fantasies.

cliff

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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1334 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/8/2007 3:02 AM
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<< That said, we did not skimp; we didn't pull our washing machine out of the dump, nor look in rainbarrels for our washwater.
>>


Heh, heh! I'm amazed that you are snobbish about your washing machine! Do you think it actually washes clothes better than mine, which did come off a scrap pile and which does use water from my rain barrels?

What particular advantages do you think this gives you?


In it's own way, your post is a pompous as the ones you are pontificating against.



Seattle Pioneer

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Author: SeattlePioneer Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1336 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/8/2007 3:13 AM
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<<The fact is that all the goods and services in the US are produced by a minority of the people, including those with jobs. Much, if not most, of the "work" done nowadays is just so much paperwork. Very few workers actually do anything really necessary. You may be one of those that actually contribute something of real value. The rest are on a giant WPA program. All insurance, most banking, government, and many other "useful" jobs are just moving paper from one pile to another, or shuffling electronic data. The reason is just for bookkeeping. Useless otherwise, if you think about it.

This liberal diatribe is just by way of saying that we really don't need all those workers, nor the "work" that they so proudly contribute (all the while disdaining the "welfare queens" who actually contribute about as much useful output as they do).

I thought you might like to see what a real liberal concept is, as compared to your fantasies.

cliff>>



Well Cliff, I want to thank you for an interesting post. I think you are just plain wrong in suggesting that most work done in the paid labor force is pointless, and I don't think liberal labor economists would agree with your theory. They didn't when I was taking labor economics, but that was about a third of a century ago now.

Most welfare queens have retired to the paid labor force in the wake of welfare reform.

We do agree that one aim of Social Security was to take surplus workers out of the labor force. In the past few decades, both men and women have sharply reduced their labor force participation rate among people 50+ years of age. Whether that is a good thing when we are facing a shortage of workers as the 'boomer generation drops out is an interesting question.




Seattle Pioneer


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Author: cattleman22 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1339 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/8/2007 7:51 AM
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It is interesting how liberals like tell people "Do as I say and don't do as I do."


""Conservatism" has nothing to do with it. "Personal responsibility" surely does, but somehow you think that people who are liberal cannot also have that trait. How sad for you, that you have fallen into the stereotyping of people - and so incorrectly, too.""


Liberals think it is bad when conservatives stereotype, but does that mean liberals think it is bad when they stereotype others?


""Most "Conservatives" I have noticed do not and I'm not sure that's a very admirable trait.""


Of course not.



c

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Author: cattleman22 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1341 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/8/2007 8:01 AM
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{{Do you understand that you are being inconsiderate when you post questions here about the ethics of liberal early retirement that are designed to create the type of dialogue this board was specifically created to avoid?}}


He did answer your question. This baord was created to have a liberal slant on retiring early. SP asked about liberal ethics and how that applies to retiring early. How can you reasonably beleive that a board about liberal retiring early was created to avoid discussing how liberal ethics apply to retiring early?



c

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Author: cattleman22 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1345 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/8/2007 8:10 AM
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{{Much, if not most, of the "work" done nowadays is just so much paperwork. Very few workers actually do anything really necessary. You may be one of those that actually contribute something of real value. The rest are on a giant WPA program. All insurance, most banking, government, and many other "useful" jobs are just moving paper from one pile to another, or shuffling electronic data. The reason is just for bookkeeping. Useless otherwise, if you think about it.

This liberal diatribe is just by way of saying that we really don't need all those workers, nor the "work" that they so proudly contribute (all the while disdaining the "welfare queens" who actually contribute about as much useful output as they do).

I thought you might like to see what a real liberal concept is, as compared to your fantasies.}}



I only wish that liberals thought of government as useless.



c




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Author: johnmoni Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1346 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/8/2007 8:14 AM
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"Don't be modest."

You just made me blush.

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Author: Gingko100 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1347 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/8/2007 8:21 AM
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Point taken. But should public policy encourage early retirement?

I think it already does in the form of Social Security. Otherwise many people would be working into their 90's. That's the grasshopper/ant thing again...
:)

As far as RE earlier than the SS limits I think neither our government nor our culture supports that very well. Others in this thread (or was it RECF?) have commented on the fact that sometimes it is socially awkward to say one has retired in social gatherings.

It is interesting to me that when I have traveled abroad (India, Europe) I can go days and days - sometimes forever - meeting new acquanitances and not have them ask what it is I do. This is as true of casual meetings as it is of people I know quite well. In the US it is always the first question I am asked when meeting someone. What we "do" defines us here. Americans truly truly believe in the work ethic. I think this is one of the things that has made this country as dynamic and successful as it is. But no, it doesn't accomodate the structure of RE very well.

I find it kind of funny that even the goal of RE is made into a project - a job as it were. Those of us on these boards (who aren't actually retired) spend lots of time planning it, discussing it, "working" (ahem...) to make it happen. We do almost approach it like a job - "my job is to gain financial independence..."

I truly don't find this a liberal or conservative thing. Americans work, and in general although we complain about our jobs many of us would feel somewhat unmoored without it. RE is not the norm.

As far as public policy, yes we could certainly have a discussion about that from a political POV. But I just think our government isn't that interested in it regardless of the political party in power. they are more interested in getting us to shop at the mall. The economy isn't driven by savings, sadly.

I think those of us who aspire to (or are already) RE are quite different from the average working American and our government would probably find us a bit baffling in this regard. I can't see policy being developed to support RE.

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Author: jgc123 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1350 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/8/2007 9:13 AM
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SP:

If you read the threads I've started, including this one, I think any fair minded person would see serious questions and issues being raised. That has certainly been my intent."

The question, "What do you think about early retirement" might have merited a serious response.

But your original quesion about how early retirement squares with "liberal ethics" demonstrates that your thinking about liberals is wrapped up in so many stereotypes that no intelligent fair minded person would take it seriously.

You would have to completely reopen your mind and learn why your stereotypes make no sense before we could have a meaningful discussion.

I have no desire to spend my time defending myself against your sterotypes. I hope I don't get FA'ed again simply telling you as honestly as I can the truth that you refuse to hear.

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Author: GusSmed Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1351 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/8/2007 9:17 AM
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You would have to completely reopen your mind and learn why your stereotypes make no sense before we could have a meaningful discussion.

Fat chance of that. You're talking to a man who regards half the human race as being unethical merely because they belong to the other gender.

- Gus

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Author: joseph714 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1352 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/8/2007 9:27 AM
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So here's a challenge liberals: redeem yourselves! What do you really think about early retirement?

SP
----------

Iv'e already answered that question a few hundred posts back, but will reiterate that living responsibly (each has to determine what that means to themselves), building quality into every aspect of ones life, retaining an ever deepening sense of humor as this difficult world seems to spin violently, & finding a way to do what one loves, is my own formula for preparation toward "early retirement".

Alot of homework & paying close attention to detail can help turn moderate investments into exponential growth, & repeating the process, ought result in comfortable capital insulation from a less well thought out retirement plan.

In my case, I stated I will likely never fully retire since I truly do love what it is I find myself doing in the world.



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Author: jgc123 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1355 of 56766
Subject: Re: Liberal Early Retirement Date: 2/8/2007 9:49 AM
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"Fat chance of that. You're talking to a man who regards half the human race as being unethical merely because they belong to the other gender.

- Gus"

I had quit reading his posts years ago because it became clear to me that he sees the entire planet through his liberal/conservative paradigm and the deeply ingrained stereotypes he has about liberals.

With regard to more interesting topics, I haven't been responding meaningfully to your hypotheticals because I actually work during the day and haven't a lot to offer at this point.

I think your questions about those who are cocky enough about their 'systems' to take out 10% or more from their stockpile (or whatever the better term is) is more of a personal question about personal confidence and risk aversion than formulas. I personally am not that cocky. I will probably work longer than your formulas suggest and withdraw less than your formulas suggest.

Plus, I am not sure I want to retire. I left a larger law firm with bigger clients 7 years ago to establish a small law practice. Some of my clients really need my help and even invite me to weddings, graduations, etc., but I don't earn as much as I did.

I am frugal because I want to be able to do what I like without regard to money, so that I can continue to work by choice rather than necessity.

The acorn doesn't fall far from the tree. My Dad is 85 and officially retired last year. The last two times I called home during the work week, he was at the office anyway, helping old friends with legal problems.

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