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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 1961326  
Subject: Libruls deserve the truth Date: 4/28/2013 10:35 AM
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Yes, they do. So in an effort to prove that Barack Owebama is incompetent, I shall post credible links to prove a litany of claims that our two-term president is a disaster.

First, disability.

Is Disability the New Unemployment Insurance?

The Social Security Administration’s website cites two criteria for disability eligibility:

• You must be unable to do any substantial work because of your medical condition(s); and

• Your medical condition(s) must have lasted, or be expected to last at least 1 year, or be expected to result in your death.

Quizzically, from 1980 to 2002 there was no change in the percentage of the workforce claiming disability, yet the “disability participation rate” has embarked on a 4.5 percent ascent each year for the last decade. There is now 1 person collecting disability for every 12 in the workforce. [...]

The Bureau of Labor Statistics reports that today [Q3 2012] only 14% of working Americans are in goods producing jobs, down from more than 25% in 1973. Yet, somehow, claims for disability benefits have headed in the opposite direction. [...]

[A]lmost as many people collect disability (10.8 million) as there are working in the entirety of manufacturing (12 million). It is plain to see that permanently stagnant labor markets are making Social Security disability the new unemployment benefit.”


More FACTS at http://www.forbes.com/sites/adamhartung/2012/08/22/is-disabi...

If Owebama had not claimed he would (a) cut the deficit in half by the end of his first term and (b) otherwise "transform" this country, I wouldn't have a problem with him, but he campaigned on "hope and change," except the change hasn't been the kind of change this country needs or wants.

Next up: real unemployment

(Oh, and by the way, when a person goes on disability, they're excluded from the unemployment numbers.)
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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1873767 of 1961326
Subject: Re: Libruls deserve the truth Date: 4/28/2013 10:50 AM
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On second thought, let's move to food stamps.

According to the Monthly Treasury Statement that summarizes the receipts and outlays of the federal government, $80,401,000,000 went towards SNAP during FY 2012, which was a $2.7 billion increase from $77,637,000,000 in FY 2011.

The SNAP program is administered by the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA), which also runs other food assistance programs under the auspices of the Food and Nutrition Service Agency.

In total, nearly $106 billion was spent on food assistance in 2012, with $18.3 billion that went to “Child Nutrition Programs.”

Total federal spending on SNAP has increased each year during President Owebama’s first term in office. In FY 2009 -- when SNAP was still known as the “Food Stamp” program -- the government spent approximately $55.6 billion.

By FY 2010, SNAP spending increased to nearly $70.5 billion. Between FY 2009 and FY 2012, SNAP’s budget jumped by approximately $24.8 billion.

According to an April 2012 report from the Congressional Budget Office, SNAP outlays increased by $42 billion between 2007 and 2011, and the number of SNAP participants increased by 70 percent.

During FY 2012, the U.S. government ran a $1.089 trillion dollar deficit, down from nearly $1.3 trillion in FY 2011.

The only reason this country is not witness to public bread lines is that EBT cards have taken the place of public bread lines.

Sources:

Monthly Treasury Statement
http://www.fms.treas.gov/mts/mts0912.pdf

Congressional Budget Office Report on SNAP Program
http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/attachments/...

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Author: ModernViking Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1873770 of 1961326
Subject: Re: Libruls deserve the truth Date: 4/28/2013 10:57 AM
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The Bureau of Labor Statistics reports that today [Q3 2012] only 14% of working Americans are in goods producing jobs, down from more than 25% in 1973. Yet, somehow, claims for disability benefits have headed in the opposite direction. [...]

[A]lmost as many people collect disability (10.8 million) as there are working in the entirety of manufacturing (12 million). It is plain to see that permanently stagnant labor markets are making Social Security disability the new unemployment benefit.”



All this demonstrates is that America's manufacturing workforce has cratered since everything started getting outsourced overseas.

America's workforse is now primarily a service industry, full of beancounters, moneychangers, and subprime loan pushers. Very little value creation relative to the way things were before Reaganomics had its heyday.

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Author: NemesisToLibs Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1873772 of 1961326
Subject: Re: Libruls deserve the truth Date: 4/28/2013 11:00 AM
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"All this demonstrates is that America's manufacturing workforce has cratered since everything started getting outsourced overseas.
"

which contradicts the data that shows the US still number 1 in manufacturing.

You implication is protectionism which destroys jobs and wealth.

BTW your hero Krugman fully supports Free Trade.

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Author: JediGALT Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1873776 of 1961326
Subject: Re: Libruls deserve the truth Date: 4/28/2013 11:05 AM
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You do realize, that to Liberals, this is all GOOD news right?


JediG

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Author: eatenbybears Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1873777 of 1961326
Subject: Re: Libruls deserve the truth Date: 4/28/2013 11:05 AM
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All this demonstrates is that America's manufacturing workforce has cratered since everything started getting outsourced overseas.

America's workforse is now primarily a service industry, full of beancounters, moneychangers, and subprime loan pushers. Very little value creation relative to the way things were before Reaganomics had its heyday.


Outsourcing is a product of economies developing world wide.

40 Years ago, the Chinese were snapping the heads on Barbie dolls. Today they make automobiles, precision parts, steel and are servicing their own huge economies ..... and the Vietnamese snap on Barbie heads

Has nothing to do with politics, just economics

Bears

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1873781 of 1961326
Subject: Re: Libruls deserve the truth Date: 4/28/2013 11:12 AM
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Has nothing to do with politics, just economics

Fair 'nuff, but why, as a result of outsourcing, are there more people on disability than ever before in our country's history?

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Author: NemesisToLibs Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1873784 of 1961326
Subject: Re: Libruls deserve the truth Date: 4/28/2013 11:14 AM
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"Fair 'nuff, but why, as a result of outsourcing, are there more people on disability than ever before in our country's history? "

It's not a result of outsourcing. Why do you conclude that?

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Author: jerryab Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1873799 of 1961326
Subject: Re: Libruls deserve the truth Date: 4/28/2013 11:50 AM
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On second thought, let's move to food stamps.

Let's look at a graph of the growth of food stamps. You really did not think *this* would get posted? ROFLMAO !!

http://www.trivisonno.com/wp-content/uploads/Food-Stamps-Per...

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Author: NemesisToLibs Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1873803 of 1961326
Subject: Re: Libruls deserve the truth Date: 4/28/2013 12:10 PM
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"You really did not think *this* would get posted? ROFLMAO !!

"

Wow! Thanks for providing the proof on Food Stamps. And I thought you were a lib;-)

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Author: BlueGrits Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1873804 of 1961326
Subject: Re: Libruls deserve the truth Date: 4/28/2013 12:10 PM
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Fair 'nuff, but why, as a result of outsourcing, are there more people on disability than ever before in our country's history?

Well, as you pointed out, it's an ongoing trend stretching across administrations so it doesn't appear that politics are a direct cause.

My suspicion is that staffing is a problem with those administering the program. Because of that, the easy path is to just grant disability to anyone who applies rather than spending time on cases going through an appeals process.

It may well be one of those cases like the IRS where the ROI of adding auditors is great, but Congress just doesn't want to do it. As a result, an environment is created where mistakes/fraud are essentially encouraged as the probability of being caught decreases.

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Author: jerryab Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1873805 of 1961326
Subject: Re: Libruls deserve the truth Date: 4/28/2013 12:17 PM
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"All this demonstrates is that America's manufacturing workforce has cratered since everything started getting outsourced overseas."

which contradicts the data that shows the US still number 1 in manufacturing.


Your cluelessness is publicly posted by you once again.

The number of people involved in manufacturing is one matter.

"How much they produce" is a totally different issue.

This was documented in "Wealth of Nations, where the author stated one group of workers--working independently--could produce a small number of pins (maybe 20 pins/person/day). But, if that same small group of workers was to work efficiently, they could produce more than 48,000 pins a *day*.

http://www.online-literature.com/adam_smith/wealth_nations/1...

Because you addressed neither issue (employment NOR productivity), you have (once again) publicly posted how little you truly comprehend.

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Author: NemesisToLibs Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1873807 of 1961326
Subject: Re: Libruls deserve the truth Date: 4/28/2013 12:24 PM
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"
Your cluelessness is publicly posted by you once again.

The number of people involved in manufacturing is one matter.

"How much they produce" is a totally different issue.

This was documented in "Wealth of Nations, where the author stated one group of workers--working independently--could produce a small number of pins (maybe 20 pins/person/day). But, if that same small group of workers was to work efficiently, they could produce more than 48,000 pins a *day*.

http://www.online-literature.com/adam_smith/wealth_nations/1......

Because you addressed neither issue (employment NOR productivity), you have (once again) publicly posted how little you truly comprehend. "

No I understand. You want to bring back jobs through protectionism and increase costs on the consumers. Why do you hate the consumers so much?

And protectionism destroys jobs and wealth.


By the way Krugman is a free trader as well.

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Author: BlueGrits Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1873813 of 1961326
Subject: Re: Libruls deserve the truth Date: 4/28/2013 12:36 PM
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"So why are the food stamp rolls expanding? It can all be explained by a slow job market, more pockets of poverty and a push from states to get residents to apply for SNAP, reports The Wall Street Journal.

The program's expansion goes back to 1996, when President Bill Clinton overhauled the welfare system. That law has allowed states to loosen asset and income tests for SNAP applicants, which means people with savings and relatively higher incomes than in previous years are now qualifying, The Journal notes."
http://money.msn.com/now/post.aspx?post=e9caf453-75ca-4ad6-a...

A link of interest: Welfare caseload per capita
http://www.statemaster.com/graph/eco_wel_cas_tot_rec_percap-...

Yet another: "Even Critics of Safety Net Increasingly Depend on It"
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/12/us/even-critics-of-safety-...

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Author: jerryab Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1873814 of 1961326
Subject: Re: Libruls deserve the truth Date: 4/28/2013 12:40 PM
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You want to bring back jobs through protectionism and increase costs on the consumers. Why do you hate the consumers so much?

You fire workers from their jobs so they can buy MORE? ROFLMAO !!

And protectionism destroys jobs and wealth.

2002 jobs needed in US economy: 131-million workers in US economy
2002-2009: 8 yrs x 2-million new workers = 16-million ADDITIONAL jobs needed "just to keep up" with population growth
2009 jobs needed in US economy: 147-million (131-million + 16-million)
2009 ACTUAL jobs in US economy: 131-million
Jobs MISSING from US economy..: 16-million (due to GWB economic policies)

That is 2-million jobs, taxes, spending, revenues, etc--missing from the US economy for essentially EIGHT consecutive years. And then you try to blame ABC (anybody but conservatives).

DUH !!!

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Author: NemesisToLibs Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1873815 of 1961326
Subject: Re: Libruls deserve the truth Date: 4/28/2013 12:44 PM
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"You fire workers from their jobs so they can buy MORE? ROFLMAO !!
"

Your ignorance is unbounded.

"DUH !!! "

touché. More of your made up economic crap.

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Author: NemesisToLibs Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1873816 of 1961326
Subject: Re: Libruls deserve the truth Date: 4/28/2013 12:45 PM
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"That law has allowed states to loosen asset and income tests for SNAP applicants, which means people with savings and relatively higher incomes than in previous years are now qualifying, The Journal notes."
http://money.msn.com/now/post.aspx?post=e9caf453-75ca-4ad6-a......
"

No, Obama did that with his executive order

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Author: jerryab Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1873817 of 1961326
Subject: Re: Libruls deserve the truth Date: 4/28/2013 12:55 PM
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"So why are the food stamp rolls expanding? It can all be explained by a slow job market, more pockets of poverty and a push from states to get residents to apply for SNAP, reports The Wall Street Journal.

They forgot to mention Walmart as a major cause as well.

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Author: NemesisToLibs Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1873819 of 1961326
Subject: Re: Libruls deserve the truth Date: 4/28/2013 1:04 PM
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"They forgot to mention Walmart as a major cause as well. "

ROTFLOL What stupendously ignorant statement!

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1873845 of 1961326
Subject: Re: Libruls deserve the truth Date: 4/28/2013 3:50 PM
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BlueGrits wrote: My suspicion is that staffing is a problem with those administering the program. Because of that, the easy path is to just grant disability to anyone who applies rather than spending time on cases going through an appeals process. Because of that, the easy path is to just grant disability to anyone who applies rather than spending time on cases going through an appeals process. It may well be one of those cases like the IRS where the ROI of adding auditors is great, but Congress just doesn't want to do it. As a result, an environment is created where mistakes/fraud are essentially encouraged as the probability of being caught decreases.

So you're saying that if only the Republican-controlled Congress would act, there wouldn't be so many Americans on "disability." Well, I figured someone would blame it on the Republican-controlled Congress, but does that make the rampant fraud and increasing numbers of Americans on disability politically or morally right?

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1873846 of 1961326
Subject: Re: Libruls deserve the truth Date: 4/28/2013 3:52 PM
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jerryab wrote: Because you addressed neither issue (employment NOR productivity), you have (once again) publicly posted how little you truly comprehend.

The question is: Why are more Americans on "disability" than at any time in our nation's history?

Do any libruls here know the answer?

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Author: ramsfanray Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1873847 of 1961326
Subject: Re: Libruls deserve the truth Date: 4/28/2013 3:56 PM
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My suspicion is that staffing is a problem with those administering the program. Because of that, the easy path is to just grant disability to anyone who applies rather than spending time on cases going through an appeals process.

You would be wrong. Most applications are initially denied.

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1873848 of 1961326
Subject: Re: Libruls deserve the truth Date: 4/28/2013 3:58 PM
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Quoted: "So why are the food stamp rolls expanding? It can all be explained by a slow job market, more pockets of poverty and a push from states to get residents to apply for SNAP, reports The Wall Street Journal.

They're expanding under Owebama. (Reminder: Booosh is no longer president.) So when I stated, "More Americans are on food stamps than ever before in our nation's history," this isn't a false statement, is it?

One would think, if Owebama was the "transformational" president he claims/promised to be, that SNAP would be constricting, not expanding.

Facts 'r facts.

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Author: ramsfanray Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1873850 of 1961326
Subject: Re: Libruls deserve the truth Date: 4/28/2013 4:01 PM
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Why are more Americans on "disability" than at any time in our nation's history?

Advances in health care.

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Author: NemesisToLibs Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1873852 of 1961326
Subject: Re: Libruls deserve the truth Date: 4/28/2013 4:05 PM
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"Advances in health care. "

That makes a lot of sense;-)

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1873853 of 1961326
Subject: Re: Libruls deserve the truth Date: 4/28/2013 4:11 PM
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You would be wrong. Most applications are initially denied.

No, they're not. Here's a comment by someone (admittedly, we cannot verify) on an article about this topic who says he works directly in the area of disability claims. His/her comments ring true.

I work in banking (I know right, one of those eeeeevil bankers), and part of what I do is handling government deposits that come in for our clientele. The outfit I work for is pretty small, and most of our customers I know personally as I have been here a long time.

I can say with complete confidence that a VAST majority of our people receiving disability benefits are not only able-bodied, but mentally stable as well. It is the exception that we receive notification of a disability benefit for someone who is truly unable to work.

Now, throughout these comments are numerous individuals speaking about the humilitiation and bother of having to repeatedly prove their need for disability benefits, and to that, I have a few things to say:

1. The rest of us are truly sorry about your plight and don't mind the ***principle*** of pitching in to help someone who cannot help themselves. However, one of the problems with programs like the one from which you benefit is that it is completely un-Constitutional and is so for a very good reason. That good reason being that the extent to which one level of government can demand money from the electorate is the extent to which it can control said electorate...This is the wisdom of the drafters of our Constitution...See: Tenth Amendment.

2. While you are legitimately disabled and needful of the help you receive, most of the people receiving the same help are not. I can assure you this is true. So if it is too much to ask of you to periodically go see a doctor to ensure that the free money you are receiving off our labors is justified, then your anger should be directed at those defrauding the program upon which you are so dependent for without their lack of character, there would be no need for us to ask you to do so.

People always want to make the debate over entitlements about the person who needs help when there are very few people out there unwilling to help the truly needful. The debate should center around the question of what are the proper and most effective ways to help the truly needful. Unfortunately, politicians cannot win elections off only the votes of the truly needful.


My friend's aunt works for that portion of the court system where people who applied for disability turn for redress. She says it's outright thievery the way people ROUTINELY receive disability that don't really need it. There's a cottage industry of lawyers who practically recruit people to go on disability because there's big bucks in it for the lawyers. This lawyer advertises nationally. I'm sure you've seen these commercials.

http://www.binderandbinder.com

This situation is commonplace.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjKPdQaQFBc&feature=youtu...

The point is, more Americans are on "disability" under Barack Owebama than any other presidential administration in our nation's history. F-A-C-T.

Oh, and don't forget, when you're considered "disabled," you fall off the "unemployment" rolls. More about real unemployments numbers later.

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Author: BlueGrits Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1873854 of 1961326
Subject: Re: Libruls deserve the truth Date: 4/28/2013 4:30 PM
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ME: My suspicion is that staffing is a problem with those administering the program. Because of that, the easy path is to just grant disability to anyone who applies rather than spending time on cases going through an appeals process.

RAY: You would be wrong. Most applications are initially denied.

ME (again):
What you said is true in that there are apparently many who just walk in off the street with little/no documentation and expect to get disability. Then again, I'd hardly consider that an "application". Maybe that's just me....

In any event, here's some more on disability:

"Yes, It is true that most initial applications are rejected at the initial stage; in 2005, for example, 64% of disability applicants were rejected at the initial application. But this is not so much a sign of Social Security benefits being difficult to get as it is due to the lack of preparation most people make prior to applying for benefits.

Many applicants simply walk into a field office with little or no preparation and expect to sign some papers and get benefits; and these applicants are overwhelmingly rejected. This is because the process of applying for benefits is such an ordered and formal process with so many steps that it almost might be considered a ritual rather than a process. The better an applicant understands the process and knows what Social Security is looking for when approving a claim, the greater the chance that the claim will be approved at the initial application."

http://www.hcvadvocate.org/hepatitis/hepC/First_Try.html

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Author: Rightime Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1873855 of 1961326
Subject: Re: Libruls deserve the truth Date: 4/28/2013 4:31 PM
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"More Americans are on food stamps than ever before in our nation's history"



More Americans have swimming pools than ever before in our nation's history...

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Author: NemesisToLibs Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1873861 of 1961326
Subject: Re: Libruls deserve the truth Date: 4/28/2013 4:54 PM
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"
"More Americans are on food stamps than ever before in our nation's history"


More Americans have swimming pools than ever before in our nation's history... "

Not as a percentage of Americans.

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1873870 of 1961326
Subject: Re: Libruls deserve the truth Date: 4/28/2013 5:07 PM
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More Americans have swimming pools than ever before in our nation's history...

We're not talking about swimming pools. That would be the Gardening and Landscaping board.

http://boards.fool.com/gardening-and-landscaping-112916.aspx...

The topic is: more Americans are on food stamps, disability, welfare, living below the poverty line and have given up finding a job during the Owebama administration than during any other presidential administration in our nation's history.

These are F-A-C-T-S that apparently Owebama admirers refuse to admit. The only reason Americans aren't subjected to the demoralizing spectacle of public bread lines is that EBT cards are handed out instead.

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Author: BlueGrits Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1873873 of 1961326
Subject: Re: Libruls deserve the truth Date: 4/28/2013 5:19 PM
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So you're saying that if only the Republican-controlled Congress would act, there wouldn't be so many Americans on "disability." Well, I figured someone would blame it on the Republican-controlled Congress, but does that make the rampant fraud and increasing numbers of Americans on disability politically or morally right?

I didn't mention either party being singularly responsible but I think it's interesting that, without any prompting, you think it's Republicans who are to blame. B^)

Nothing Congress does will make rampant fraud politically or morally right regardless of whether that fraud is done on Main St. or Wall St.

What Congress *can* do is fund controls to better detect and prosecute abuses. It costs the IRS about $14/hr for mail audits but the return is over $4K/hr while field audits run about $30/hr and return about $330/hr. I guess those guys who say they want to run gov't like a business haven't yet mastered the concept of ROI.....

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Author: wzambon Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1873879 of 1961326
Subject: Re: Libruls deserve the truth Date: 4/28/2013 6:12 PM
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They're expanding under Owebama. (Reminder: Booosh is no longer president.) So when I stated, "More Americans are on food stamps than ever before in our nation's history," this isn't a false statement, is it?

Welcome to the entire post-2008 Western world.

Name a western country that is currently not experiencing these and similar problems.

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Author: NemesisToLibs Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1873881 of 1961326
Subject: Re: Libruls deserve the truth Date: 4/28/2013 6:22 PM
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"Welcome to the entire post-2008 Western world.

Name a western country that is currently not experiencing these and similar problems. "

This is your excuse? Everyone else has the problem. Give me a break!

I guess anything to move blame to anyone or anything else from Obama.

There is NO excuse for this. Period.

Obama's water carrier in full swing today.

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Subject: Re: Libruls deserve the truth Date: 4/28/2013 6:24 PM
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Not as a percentage of Americans.



Prove It

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Author: NemesisToLibs Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1873883 of 1961326
Subject: Re: Libruls deserve the truth Date: 4/28/2013 6:25 PM
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"Prove It "

Don't need to. You apparently have the numbers. So you prove it.

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Author: wzambon Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1873884 of 1961326
Subject: Re: Libruls deserve the truth Date: 4/28/2013 6:42 PM
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I guess anything to move blame to anyone or anything else from Obama.

There is NO excuse for this. Period.


The entire western world got dumped off of a financial cliff a few months before Obama took office.

We're actually falling slower than other countries.

Not an excuse.. just fact.

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Subject: Re: Libruls deserve the truth Date: 4/28/2013 6:47 PM
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The topic is: more Americans are on food stamps, disability, welfare, living below the poverty line and have given up finding a job during the Owebama administration than during any other presidential administration in our nation's history.


That is patently not true: you make your facts up based on your ideology of Obama The Bad.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_poverty_rate_by_age._Ti...

In 2011, the official poverty rate was 15.0 percent. There were 46.2 million people in poverty.

In 1947, the official poverty rate was 32 percent. There were 46.3 million people in poverty.

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Subject: Re: Libruls deserve the truth Date: 4/28/2013 6:50 PM
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Don't need to.



Because you live in the bubble and you don't need facts to make assertions.

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Author: NemesisToLibs Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1873887 of 1961326
Subject: Re: Libruls deserve the truth Date: 4/28/2013 6:51 PM
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"The entire western world got dumped off of a financial cliff a few months before Obama took office.
"

Over 4 years ago. His policies are to blame for the prolonged period of economic malaise.

"We're actually falling slower than other countries.
"

Thanks to the GOP stopping many of his insane Keynesian policy ideas.

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Subject: Re: Libruls deserve the truth Date: 4/28/2013 6:52 PM
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Thanks to the GOP stopping many of his insane Keynesian policy ideas.



Name more than one. In fact, name anything the GOP has done

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Author: NemesisToLibs Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1873889 of 1961326
Subject: Re: Libruls deserve the truth Date: 4/28/2013 6:54 PM
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"Because you live in the bubble and you don't need facts to make assertions. "

Which only proves you were MUS. Otherwise, you would have come back with numbers proving your case. Thank you for acknowledging it.

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Subject: Re: Libruls deserve the truth Date: 4/28/2013 6:56 PM
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"Name more than one. In fact, name anything the GOP has done "

How many jobs bills has Obama introduced and/ or supported in the last 2+ years. GOP stopped them all.

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Subject: Re: Libruls deserve the truth Date: 4/28/2013 7:00 PM
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How many jobs bills has Obama introduced and/ or supported in the last 2+ years. GOP stopped them all.

... and then griped at Obama for not creating jobs.

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Subject: Re: Libruls deserve the truth Date: 4/28/2013 7:05 PM
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How many jobs bills has Obama introduced and/ or supported in the last 2+ years. GOP stopped them all?


Zero

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Author: NemesisToLibs Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1873893 of 1961326
Subject: Re: Libruls deserve the truth Date: 4/28/2013 7:09 PM
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"... and then griped at Obama for not creating jobs. "

No, griped at Obama for his failed ideas that keeps coming back like a broken record.

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Subject: Re: Libruls deserve the truth Date: 4/28/2013 7:10 PM
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"Zero "

lie.

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Author: Rightime Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1873898 of 1961326
Subject: Re: Libruls deserve the truth Date: 4/28/2013 7:30 PM
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Prove it

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Author: ramsfanray Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1873905 of 1961326
Subject: Re: Libruls deserve the truth Date: 4/28/2013 8:59 PM
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I work in banking (I know right, one of those eeeeevil bankers), and part of what I do is handling government deposits that come in for our clientele. The outfit I work for is pretty small, and most of our customers I know personally as I have been here a long time.

I can say with complete confidence that a VAST majority of our people receiving disability benefits are not only able-bodied, but mentally stable as well. It is the exception that we receive notification of a disability benefit for someone who is truly unable to work.


So the teller working the bank's drive through window feels medically qualified to detemine who is and isn't disabled.

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Subject: Re: Libruls deserve the truth Date: 4/28/2013 10:31 PM
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Why are more Americans on "disability" than at any time in our nation's history?



Part of it is mental disorders. According to the SSA, 1/3 of all people on Disability have a mental disorder.

http://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/statcomps/di_asr/2011/index.h...

DP is trying not to get on Disability, but with his seizures, he keeps losing jobs. So what do you propose people do when they are ill?

Charlie

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Subject: Re: Libruls deserve the truth Date: 4/28/2013 10:37 PM
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No, they're not

Well yes they may be,


"Nearly sixty-five percent of all initial disability claims end in denial, which basically means that sixty-five disability applicants out of every one hundred who file an initial disability application are denied."


http://www.ssdrc.com/10-3.html

Charlie

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1873925 of 1961326
Subject: Re: Libruls deserve the truth Date: 4/28/2013 11:42 PM
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It's useless. One can cite chapter and verse how Obama has utterly failed to bring "hope and change"--unless you call massive dependency on entitlement programs "change"--and "transformation" to this country. You librul lemmings are never going to face facts.

Carry on.

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Author: jerryab Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1873976 of 1961326
Subject: Re: Libruls deserve the truth Date: 4/29/2013 10:55 AM
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The question is: Why are more Americans on "disability" than at any time in our nation's history?

Because there are more Americans than at any time in our nation's history.

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Subject: Re: Libruls deserve the truth Date: 4/29/2013 10:57 AM
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"They forgot to mention Walmart as a major cause as well. "

ROTFLOL What stupendously ignorant statement!


You can learn to overcome your ignorance. For example, you failed to identify *why* Walmart tells its employees how to apply for govt benefits.

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Subject: Re: Libruls deserve the truth Date: 4/29/2013 11:14 AM
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It's useless.


You're "facts" were based on an opinion piece form Forbes, which is a very good publication. My "facts" were from statistics, with no bias. So I don't think it's useless.

If you look at the charts that even you cite, you see the spike in disability begin with the Clinton Administration, go even higher under Bush, and yes, it is still going up.

You have to prove your point, your so-called truth. The economy is horrible. The GOP has made no real plans to solve it, other than cut everything. The president for whatever reason wants to negotiate with the GOP. The Senate Dems have done little. So it seems to be, this isn't a damning piece on one man, but more on an entire system, that no one seriously wants to fix.

So there is your truth for you.

Charlie

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Subject: Re: Libruls deserve the truth Date: 4/29/2013 12:37 PM
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DP is trying not to get on Disability, but with his seizures, he keeps losing jobs. So what do you propose people do when they are ill?

How about this?

MegaStar Financial is adding Mortgage Underwriters with 2 years direct experience, and Jr. Underwriters with 2+ years related, underwriting or processing experience - and they can work from home. MegaStar is a $1.2 billion established retail FNMA and HUD approved mortgage lender, with multi state locations ranging from California to Maine. MegaStar has a President's Club for Operations Support and we "appreciate our operations professionals with a great compensation package, provide a paperless environment, and training on the product." Candidates should expect to visit and work in its Denver headquarters one week every quarter. These positions are permanent, full-time, work from home or the office. Interested applicants should email HR@Megastarfinancial.com; visit its website at www.megastarfinancial.com

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Subject: Re: Libruls deserve the truth Date: 4/29/2013 1:56 PM
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How about this?

MegaStar Financial is adding Mortgage Underwriters with 2 years direct experience, and Jr. Underwriters with 2+ years related, underwriting or processing experience - and they can work from home.



I think that is great if you have the experience they mention. Otherwise you are SOL.


Charlie

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Subject: Re: Libruls deserve the truth Date: 4/29/2013 3:00 PM
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Experience in the specific job mentioned above isn't the point, is it? Anyone can work from home. Anyone who really wants to, that is. Here's a webinar scheduled for tomorrow sponsored by the Harvard Business Review about how this can be done.

http://learn.gotomeeting.com/043013-NA-G2MC-Collab-WBR-SM?ID...

Join this live webinar to learn:

~ The three waves of virtual work
~ How to succeed in the modern workplace
~ Strategies for designing adaptable workflows
~ Technologies that enable remote employees

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Author: JavaRunner Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1874057 of 1961326
Subject: Re: Libruls deserve the truth Date: 4/29/2013 3:13 PM
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Experience in the specific job mentioned above isn't the point, is it?
========================================================================


It is since you provided that information. Otherwise, I think a work at home situation can work. It doesn't work for everyone, but it can work for a good many people.

Just to be clear, I think the Disability program needs to be reformed. You initial point though, is you cite this as an example of how Obama has somehow failed. I don't see how you have proved your point, since the number of people on Disability started the larger growth with Clinton and Bush. During Obama's time, there has also been an increase.

Do people abuse Disability? Yes...so go after those people, but there does need to be something in place for those who can't work.

Charlie

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Subject: Re: Libruls deserve the truth Date: 4/29/2013 3:14 PM
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You're [sic] "facts" were based on an opinion piece form [sic] Forbes, which is a very good publication. My "facts" were from statistics, with no bias. So I don't think it's useless.

I, too, am very much interested in unbiased facts and I have been posting unbiased facts. The articles I posted are based on facts. The facts were impeccably cited by the authors of the articles.

The point is, libruls hold Owebama up as a successful Democrat president who is making great progress. He's a Democrat, but he's not been a successful president. He is and was vastly too inexperienced to be president at this particular time (2009-2016]. He's in over his head and merely treading water. The lives of too many Americans are still very very hard. The lives of many more are getting worse under Owebama.

Life in the White House is glamorous and gives its occupant an enormous feeling of power. I don't blame Owebama for not wanting to live elsewhere, but he has so far not fulfilled his campaign promises. Not by a long shot. He was elected because (a) he's not George W. Booosh; (b) he's a handsome young black man; and (c) he gives good speeches.

Booosh is no longer president. For their own sake and for the sake of the country, libruls need to admit the incompetency of Barack Owebama.

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Subject: Re: Libruls deserve the truth Date: 4/29/2013 3:44 PM
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I, too, am very much interested in unbiased facts and I have been posting unbiased facts. The articles I posted are based on facts. The facts were impeccably cited by the authors of the articles.




<giggle>

Riiiight! An opinion piece in a magazine which uses "facts" is not the same as an unbiased statistical source. As a blogger, I can find any "fact" I want to back up my claim. That is very different from a statistical abstract.

You are under the same delusion as many of your friends, that somehow liberals are deeply in love with President Obama. I have yet to meet a liberal who thinks Obama's poo doesn't stink. I haven't been 100% happy with what the president has done. Considering the previous president, I'll take him though.

Charlie

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Subject: Re: Libruls deserve the truth Date: 4/29/2013 3:49 PM
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As I said, the facts were credibly cited by the authors.

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Subject: Re: Libruls deserve the truth Date: 4/29/2013 3:56 PM
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You don't get to ignore the facts just because the author used facts to form an opinion.

I see no criticism whatsoever on this board of Owebama's policies. If such criticism exists in the minds of libruls, it's not been put in writing here.

The grossly inexperienced Barack Owebama was elected because (a) he isn't George W. Booosh; (2) he's a handsome young black man; and (c) he's articulate and gives good speeches.

Not enough, in my opinion, to be President of the United States.

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Subject: Re: Libruls deserve the truth Date: 4/29/2013 4:15 PM
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The grossly inexperienced Barack Owebama was elected because (a) he isn't George W. Booosh; (2) he's a handsome young black man; and (c) he's articulate and gives good speeches.

And yet, most Americans found him more Presidential than an over-the-hill Senator who wanted to Bomb Bomb Iran--and chose the ridiculous Sarah Palin as his running mate, and more Presidential than a man who devoted his life to making as much money as possible, no matter how many Americans he stepped on to get there--and he stashed a bunch of that in special havens abroad to keep his taxes at 14% (or less), and who chose Paul "Greed is Good--and so are vouchers" Ryan as his running mate.

PS--I agree Obama was "too" inexperienced, but compared to McCain, he was the right choice.

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Subject: Re: Libruls deserve the truth Date: 4/29/2013 5:14 PM
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Why didn't the Democrats nominate a more experienced politician?

Instead, libruls have spent the past five years propping up Owebama, who is incompetent even without comparing him to anyone.

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Subject: Re: Libruls deserve the truth Date: 4/29/2013 5:18 PM
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Why didn't the Democrats nominate a more experienced politician?

Instead, libruls have spent the past five years propping up Owebama, who is incompetent even without comparing him to anyone.


Except for preventing a global economic meltdown, passing the first significant health care reform bill in a century and killing public-enemy number one, the mastermind behind the worst attack on the U.S. since Pearl Harbor, yes, he's been a complete failure.

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Subject: Re: Libruls deserve the truth Date: 4/29/2013 5:32 PM
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"Except for preventing a global economic meltdown, passing the first significant health care reform bill in a century and killing public-enemy number one, the mastermind behind the worst attack on the U.S. since Pearl Harbor, yes, he's been a complete failure."

I also credit Obama with NOT doing the kinds of stupid things that his predecessor did. For example, he didn't invade and occupy any countries that hadn't attacked us, etc.

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Subject: Re: Libruls deserve the truth Date: 4/29/2013 5:33 PM
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Why didn't the Democrats nominate a more experienced politician?





Why didn't the Republicans nominate someone who understood the middle and poor class better?

You guys should have gone with Jon Huntsman last time around....heck I might have even voted for him.

Charlie

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Author: NemesisToLibs Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1874115 of 1961326
Subject: Re: Libruls deserve the truth Date: 4/29/2013 6:13 PM
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"You guys should have gone with Jon Huntsman last time around....heck I might have even voted for him.

Charlie"

Well, there is your answer as to why the republicans didn't want Huntsman. After all, if you would consider voting for him, he's got to be on the liberal side of issues.

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Subject: Re: Libruls deserve the truth Date: 4/29/2013 6:21 PM
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{"Except for preventing a global economic meltdown, passing the first significant health care reform bill in a century and killing public-enemy number one, the mastermind behind the worst attack on the U.S. since Pearl Harbor, yes, he's been a complete failure. "

First, Obama had zero to do with preventing a economic meltdown. Second, the so-called healthcare reform legislation known as Obamacare is a disaster waiting to happen. Finally, there have been how many terrorist attacks in the US since he has become president? And lets not forget his complete failure in performing his primary duty as CIC t protect. the diplomats over seas. Ambassador Stevens was the first Ambassador to be killed since the last Dim president, Jimmy Carter.


So, yes Obama is total failure as president.

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Subject: Re: Libruls deserve the truth Date: 4/29/2013 7:34 PM
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First, Obama had zero to do with preventing a economic meltdown.

Completely untrue.


Second, the so-called healthcare reform legislation known as Obamacare is a disaster waiting to happen.

Maybe, but probably not. It's a mess, but generally a good thing> Could be a disaster if Republicans continue to try and sabotage it.


Finally, there have been how many terrorist attacks in the US since he has become president?

Counting right-wing terrorists? I don't know. A few. All but one, I think, were "home-grown" though. The one that wasn't, the "underwear bomber" didn't hurt anyone other than himself.


And lets not forget his complete failure in performing his primary duty as CIC to protect the diplomats overseas.

That's not the president's primary duty.

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Subject: Re: Libruls deserve the truth Date: 4/29/2013 8:12 PM
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"Completely untrue.
"

Tell us what he did to avert an economic meltdown??

"That's not the president's primary duty."

Being CIC is not the primary duty of the president? That's new to me. Remind me what he says when he is sworn into the office of the presidency? hmmmmm think think....hmmmm oh could it be to protect and defend??

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Author: 1poorguy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1874245 of 1961326
Subject: Re: Libruls deserve the truth Date: 4/30/2013 1:39 PM
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...the mastermind behind the worst attack on the U.S. since Pearl Harbor,...

Actually, worse than Pearl Harbor. Casualties at Pearl were 2386 military (and a few civilians). 9/11 was over 3000.

But, yes, I agree with the thrust of your post. I find it interesting that Obama is labeled "incompetent" and "worst president ever", and yet no solid points are made to support those assertions. The most "damning" thing I hear is that he hasn't produced a budget. Everything else is either distortions, or simply made-up nonsense. And they never seem to point to what I think is the low-hanging fruit of his real failures (e.g. no finance/banking reform, so we're going to go down that road to ruin again in a few years).

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Author: valueqwest Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1874251 of 1961326
Subject: Re: Libruls deserve the truth Date: 4/30/2013 2:01 PM
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Except for continuing the work that Bush started and preventing a global economic meltdown, passing the first significant, and hugely unpopular health care reform bill in a century on an unprecedented strict party-line vote and killing (using information gleaned from waterboarding) public-enemy number one, the mastermind behind the worst attack on the U.S. since Pearl Harbor, yes, he's been a complete failure.

Couple things. First, I fixed the above for you. Secondly, you have left out some major accomplishments:

Presided over the most anemic recovery in the post-war era.
Presided over an unprecedented increase in food stamp spending and disability payments due to his policies.
Ran up 6T of debt, and counting, easily besting every other president to date, and the first 40 combined.

Used his leadership to fail to establish any coherent energy policy.
Failed to propose a budget serious enough to gain any votes in the Senate.
Pushed through an 800B "stimulus" bill which was pork laden and, despite how he sold it, contained few "shovel ready projects".
Presided over an administration running trillion dollar deficits, without a budget.
And, most recently to his discredit, presided over a very modest spending cut of $40B (Obama's sequester), and then used the full weight of his presidency to try and convince voters that such modest cuts triggered the need to close White House Tours, curtail Headstart, and, most famously, furlough air traffic controllers resulting in massive flight delays. His wish was to trade his sequester for approximately 600B-$1T of tax increases.

With his party controlled both houses of Congress and the presidency for 2 years, a rarity in American politics and accomplished very little with that control, other than the "stimulus" the hated "Obamacare".

I could go on but recapping this is making me nauseous.

VQ

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Author: valueqwest Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1874253 of 1961326
Subject: Re: Libruls deserve the truth Date: 4/30/2013 2:04 PM
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I also credit Obama with NOT doing the kinds of stupid things that his predecessor did. For example, he didn't invade and occupy any countries that hadn't attacked us, etc.

Umm really? What about Libya?

And Syria... oops I forgot, he is not attacking Syria for crossing the red line and using chemical weapons as he said.

He is merely putting them on Double Secret Probation, along with Iran and North Korea.

VQ

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Author: nigelwhalmsley Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1874273 of 1961326
Subject: Re: Libruls deserve the truth Date: 4/30/2013 2:43 PM
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[ I also credit Obama with NOT doing the kinds of stupid things that his predecessor did. For example, he didn't invade and occupy any countries that hadn't attacked us, etc. ]

"Umm really? What about Libya?"

If you think we have invaded and occupied Libya, you are even more misinformed than you appeared up until now.

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Author: 0x6a74 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1874317 of 1961326
Subject: Re: Libruls deserve the truth Date: 4/30/2013 4:53 PM
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If you think we have invaded and occupied Libya, you are even more misinformed than you appeared up until now.
m


or more dishonest?


( NTTAWWT

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Author: xLife Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1874328 of 1961326
Subject: Re: Libruls deserve the truth Date: 4/30/2013 6:12 PM
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Couple things. First, I fixed the above for you.

Thanks, but you didnt fix it. You just added disinformation, spin an innaccuracy.

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Author: nigelwhalmsley Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1874363 of 1961326
Subject: Re: Libruls deserve the truth Date: 4/30/2013 10:35 PM
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"I could go on but recapping this is making me nauseous."

That's what happens when you spin too fast. Sit down, take it easy ... it will pass.

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Author: jerryab Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1874373 of 1961326
Subject: Re: Libruls deserve the truth Date: 4/30/2013 11:13 PM
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"I could go on but recapping this is making me nauseous."

That's what happens when you spin too fast. Sit down, take it easy ... it will pass.


He is using a Sit-'n-Spin.

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