No. of Recommendations: 2
But I don't know how to tell you how I got here,” said Alice to the White Rabbit.
Well, why don't you begin at the beginning?

Perhaps I am misreading the bond FAQ, and perhaps I am asking more of it than should be done. Thus, the following comments might be based on multiple misunderstandings. If so, my apologies to all in advance.

The bond FAQ implies that cash-management --e.g., buying CD's, TIPS, etc. -- is equivalent to "investing". But the two are very distinct processes. Furthermore, nothing is said in the FAQ about how to write a basic, five-factor investment plan (i.e., Selection, Direction, Timing, Weighting, and Protection). The net effect is that those who confuse cash-management with investing also tend to focus almost exclusively on Selection. And by slighting the other four factors --if they are even aware of them-- they become the dumb money at the table.

It's no one's job to protect would-be investors against themselves. But having once been one of those dumb and preyed upon investors myself, as we all once had to have been, I'd like to shelter beginners from such grief by providing them with the best starting points possible, hence my criticisms of the Bond FAQ, which can be done piecemeal or by a frontal assault. I think the FAQ is unfixable, because its implicit paradigm is demonstrably wrong-headed, which is not to say that there is only a single viable replacement. There are a multiplicity of viable investment paradigms, which is the crux of the teaching problem: Where to begin?

It is my belief that beginners need to be taught much more than a specific investment paradigm. Instead, they need the broader skill how to evaluate paradigms generally, which creates a Catch-22 situation. A meta-level approach won't make sense to them until they have gain sufficient experience within specific paradigms to begin to be able to make the comparisons by which they can bootstrap themselves to wherever they want to go with their own specific paradigm, which they --of necessity-- have to create for themselves, because each person is unique in their personality and financial situation. Thus, the would-be instructor has to have already traveled the territory of not just the paradigm he himself successfully uses, but the territory of all territories such that he can go freely in the investment world where ever his ideas and energies might take him.

Concerning the lead writer of the present bond FAQ, two points seem obvious to me:

(1) The person is not an active investor who is able to support himself on his investing alone.
(2) The person does not have a mastery of the published investment literature, nor has he engaged even a fraction of it in any meaningful way.

But as I said at the beginning, I could be wrong about this. If so, my apologies. If not, then decide what you as readers in this forum want to do about it. I know who I am as an investor and who I am as an investment theorist. I've done my time in the trenches, and I've done my time in the libraries. So my choice is simple: I have a moral obligation to help others in the same way that others have helped me. But I have no obligation to help the preversely uneducatable, which is anyone who lets that Bond FAQ stand as it is or sends a beginner to read it. That’s a piece of intellectual trash that needs to be deleted. Meanwhile, markets will extract their own revenge on those who were deluded by it, and markets will reward those who do who know better. Each will receive what he deserves in proportion to his understanding of how to manage risk, which is yet another basic topic the bond FAQ fails to address.

The Bond FAQ is not fixable, and it isn't worth reading. So I say this to whomever the current monitor/censor on this board might be Do your job, and kill that FAQ before it causes further harm.

Charlie
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No. of Recommendations: 13
Charlie,

Take the lead and put together the bones of a replacement or start the process. The FAQs of the boards are built by board members. The last one was a collective effort and edited by Loki.

I don't have a problem calling, TIPs, CDs, MMAs and MMFs "investments" as they all have a different risk/reward profile nor do I have a problem with them labeled cash management tools as they are useful places to park cash while on the hunt for something better or to manage one expenses. The difference is not in the vehicle but in how its deployed by the investor and/or how the investor prefers to label those assets in a way that has utility to them.

If you have issues with the FAQ take the lead, email the proper people at TMF and provide the leadership and some of the content to fix what you believe to be broken.

jack
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No. of Recommendations: 17
Charlie, I don't know what drives your obsession with the board's FAQs, or your contempt for Loki. You seemed like a nice guy these last few months. What's eating you now?

This is The Motley Fool, not a grad-school-level finance course. FAQs are designed to be plain-English answers to FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS, which generally come at the entry level for the subject.

And with that purpose in mind, I think they're pretty good. And I certainly don't find anything terribly wrong in them at all. And I read Ben Graham's book too, when I was majoring in finance, along with accounting.

Bill
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No. of Recommendations: 1
Take the lead and put together the bones of a replacement or start the process.

Jack,

I'd be happy to take over the project. First, I need to be granted the same editorial privileges Loki had. The board's current monitors/censors could arrange that. They won't do that, of course, because they are afraid to lose control.

Charlie
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No. of Recommendations: 0
Charlie, I don't know what drives your obsession with the board's FAQs, or your contempt for Loki. You seemed like a nice guy these last few months. What's eating you now?

Bill,

Thanks for speaking up. I welcome the diversity of opinion that discussion forums provide. You and I differs on these matters, as do others.

Charlie
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No. of Recommendations: 8
I'd be happy to take over the project. First, I need to be granted the same editorial privileges Loki had.

You already do have the same editorial privileges. The FAQ is a post with a link to a collection of posts. Any Motley Fool member with posting privileges has the ability to do that.

And please remember when you are coming up with your new/better FAQ that the board is called "Bonds & Fixed Income Investments". The fact that you clearly don't find those type of instruments suitable for yourself doesn't mean that CDs, TIPs, preferred stocks, bond funds or any other type of 'fixed income' for are inappropriate for everyone, depending on their circumstances.

AJ
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No. of Recommendations: 1
THE AUTHOR OF A POST, ANY POST, CANNOT RE-OPEN THE POST AND EDIT IT.

A workaround would be a post linking to a google doc that you create and can edit and share on the web.
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No. of Recommendations: 17

I DO NOT HAVE THE SAME EDITORIAL PRIVILEGES AS A BOARD MONITOR OR CENSOR, JUST NO ONE WHO POSTS DOES. THE AUTHOR OF A POST, ANY POST, CANNOT RE-OPEN THE POST AND EDIT IT. INSTEAD, HE OR SHE MUST FLAG THE POST AND THEN BEG THE CENSORS FOR PERMISSION TO EDIT IT.


Yes, I realize that. You don't have to shout.

That ability was never provided for a very good reason - to prevent people from going back and changing posts with recommendations after the fact and I see no reason to change that rule just for you.

That privilege is NOT necessary to develop FAQs for the boards, and while I wasn't around when Loki was developing the FAQs for this board, I doubt that those privileges were provided, as I have not seen them provided when other board FAQs were developed. So, unless you can provide some evidence that these privileges were granted, I don't see why you would require them to develop FAQs.

THAT IS BULLSH*T, TOTAL BULLSH*T, AND I REFUSE TO COMPROMISE THE SPEED AND QUALITY AT WHICH I COULD WORK BY SUBMITTING TO THAT DRACONIAN PROCESS.

It's called developing in another format (Word, Google Doc, Open Office, Notepad, etc.) and then proofreading before submitting. But if you feel more strongly about cramping your style than you feel about getting different FAQs posted, then I guess you should quit complaining about the FAQs. I, for one, found the FAQs more useful than you seem to, and would be disappointed if the link to those FAQs was disabled, even after a new FAQ was posted.

EITHER TMF LEARNS TO RESPECT THE INTEGRITY OF THOSE WHO ENABLED THE VIABILITY OF TMF THROUGH THEIR POSTING OF ORIGINAL, CREATIVE MATERIAL --AND, FURTHERMORE, CEDES ALL OWNERSHIP OF THAT MATERIAL TO THE AUTHORS -- OR YOU CAN GO TO HELL.

You were the one who brought up the issue. All I'm saying is that if you aren't willing to fix it, quit complaining. This isn't your own personal Bond board, even though it might appear to be to a recent casual observer - it's the Bonds & Fixed Income Investments board in the Investing Strategies of TMF's board structure. You are perfectly welcome to go open your own Bond board where you can control the content and discussion to your heart's content if you don't like what's posted here.

AJ
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No. of Recommendations: 1
AJ,

Thanks for providing an alternative point of view.

I looked into self-publishing this afternoon at Powell's. The fees are reasonable. My work would be sold within the store, as well as be discoverable online. I've got friends to advise me who support themselves from self-publishing. So that's the route I'm going to take.

Charlie
------------------

http://techsavvywriter.com/2012/05/powells-books-enters-the-...
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No. of Recommendations: 29
I looked into self-publishing this afternoon at Powell's. The fees are reasonable. My work would be sold within the store, as well as be discoverable online. I've got friends to advise me who support themselves from self-publishing. So that's the route I'm going to take.

Charlie

******************************

Good riddance.
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No. of Recommendations: 1
Charlie, another option is for you to start your own bond board and write the FAQ for it.

Just like Sinatra sings, "I did it my way".

LuckyDog
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No. of Recommendations: 1
LuckyDog2002,

You wrote, Charlie, another option is for you to start your own bond board and write the FAQ for it.

I would have suggested the same, except Charlie's rant also asked for:

1. The ability to edit his posts, and
2. Ownership of his content.

TMF won't grant either.

- Joel
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No. of Recommendations: 1
LuckyDog2002,

You wrote, Charlie, another option is for you to start your own bond board and write the FAQ for it.

I would have suggested the same, except Charlie's rant also asked for:

1. The ability to edit his posts, and
2. Ownership of his content.

TMF won't grant either.

- Joel

>>>>>>>>
well, I suppose this provides an opportunity for Charlie to make a choice: keep complaining, go with the flow and keep posting informative posts or go to another type board outside TMF so he can have control over the content.....short of publishing his own book, I don't think there is another board that can guarantee content ownership since it is on the Internet.

LuckyDog
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No. of Recommendations: 7
LuckyDog2002,

You wrote, I don't think there is another board that can guarantee content ownership since it is on the Internet.

Actually that's not true. Just because you publish something on the 'net doesn't mean you are conveying ownership (copyright) to the reader. Copying content from the internet and either representing that it is your own creation or using it for commercial purposes can be considered theft of intellectual property (excluding fair use cases).

Often when people post a comment, they don't really expect to retain ownership of what they write. But that's not really the way it works. Unless you explicitly give consent (it's best to include a clear statement of copyright with an article to avoid misunderstanding), the work is still your property (assuming it's not posted anonymously), the same as if you published an article in a book, magazine or newspaper.

TMF wants ownership is so they can use material you post in derivative commercial works (not considered fair use because it's a commercial work). I don't know if they're actively using content that way at the moment, but I have found TMF articles on other sites where they quoted from my old postings on the credit card board.

The ownership issue and TMF's use of any content you post is also a reason TMF's terms of service also forbids you from copy and pasting other copyrighted material. (Other than very short excerpts.) They want to be able to use what you wrote and they don't want to be sued for distributing unlicensed copyrighted material.

So as long as Charlie has complete control and ownership of the content of the board / blog he posts to, he should be able to retain legal ownership of that content as well. Of course if he's hoping to use a free blogging or message board hosting service, then he's probably going to have to live with the hosting company posting advertisements along with his content.

Actually Google's Blogger lets YOU make money off of this advertising as well. Google does not retain ownership of your content; but you are required to grant them an open-ended distribution license to the content. This means you could take what you write and use it as the basis of a book. But then in theory, so could Google under the terms of their redistribution license. (Though they'd be more likely to use the content to drive more ad revenue to some site of theirs.)

BTW, Any 3rd party blog or message board service will require a redistribution license for the content you post. They can't get around that requirement because you own the content and they need your explicit permission to post it. The only way to avoid that issue is to create your own website and host it yourself.

- Joel
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