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Author: anuvaka Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 189510  
Subject: lost ownership Date: 1/16/2013 3:50 PM
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Recently my local historic organization lost ownership of their .org site. It was bought off by a Japaneese person and now has little on it except a link to Win 8 and some small time software or cheap tech toys.

I understand this is done to make a large pfofit by selling the URL back to the original owner. I see no way to contact the admin from the page, so letters and pleas have to come from some other way.

Is there any record of sucess on getting the ownersip returned? Is there a best direction to follow?
Any help is appreciated.
jC
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Author: LonghornBoy Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 183393 of 189510
Subject: Re: lost ownership Date: 1/16/2013 4:01 PM
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If your organization has a trademark on their name, then you can sue the new owner for trademark infringement.

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Author: mmrmnhrm Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 183395 of 189510
Subject: Re: lost ownership Date: 1/16/2013 4:50 PM
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How did they lose it in the first place? If someone wasn't paying attention and let it lapse, you could be SOL unless you can bring some sort of infringement case (as previously mentioned). If someone stole it out from underneath, the registry they used ought to have some sort of fraud resolution process.

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Author: grouse100 Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 183399 of 189510
Subject: Re: lost ownership Date: 1/16/2013 6:01 PM
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Use this to find out info - http://www.networksolutions.com/whois/index.jhtml

I'd contact the domain registrar and see what your options are.

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Author: anuvaka Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 183409 of 189510
Subject: Re: lost ownership Date: 1/16/2013 11:03 PM
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How did they lose it in the first place? If someone wasn't paying attention and let it lapse, you could be SOL unless you can bring some sort of infringement case (as previously mentioned). If someone stole it out from underneath, the registry they used ought to have some sort of fraud resolution process.
In the process of moving the site from one ISP server to another, the first contract was allowed to expire while the new contract was settled and waiting to be activated.
Something happened for a week, like someone got sick or dies, whatever. And the URL was bought. While I believe this was a matter of timing, the first ISP mave have had title to the URL and allowed it to expire when the contract expired.

Use this to find out info - http://www.networksolutions.com/whois/index.jhtml
I'd contact the domain registrar and see what your options are.

shows this address
26-1 Sakuragaoka-cho
Cerulean Tower 11F
Shibuya-ku Tokyo

listed as not transferable, no names listed, private, protected e-mail
through a service.
Thr site can only be read from google translate.

I'll be finding out more in the next few days.
jC

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Author: SamuraiWil Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 183411 of 189510
Subject: Re: lost ownership Date: 1/17/2013 6:49 AM
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Just FYI, see this page:

http://www.davincivirtual.com/loc/japan/tokyo-virtual-office...

In addition to housing a hotel, the Cerulean Tower offers "virtual offices" for about $200 a month, so without something more to go on the owner is likely to be hard to track down armed only with that address.

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Author: mmrmnhrm Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 183413 of 189510
Subject: Re: lost ownership Date: 1/17/2013 6:24 PM
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In the process of moving the site from one ISP server to another, the first contract was allowed to expire while the new contract was settled and waiting to be activated.

Good luck. You'll need it.

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Author: jerryab Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 183414 of 189510
Subject: Re: lost ownership Date: 1/17/2013 6:52 PM
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In the process of moving the site from one ISP server to another, the first contract was allowed to expire while the new contract was settled and waiting to be activated.
Something happened for a week, like someone got sick or dies, whatever. And the URL was bought. While I believe this was a matter of timing, the first ISP mave have had title to the URL and allowed it to expire when the contract expired.


I see a big problem. Domain renewal notifications are sent well (months?) in advance--and there is a "grace period" for renewal as well. I know. I owned a domain name and determined I would not use it in the future. I received notices for weeks/months *before* it expired AND a couple notifications AFTER it expired. This was in 2011-2012, so it was not long ago. I had to affirmatively state I did *not* want to renew--then they finally stopped bugging me about it.

Go back to the first ISP. Get ALL their info about when they got the renewal notices for the domain name expiration and when they provided them to you or your organization. Make sure your domain names are owned by the organization directly and renewed by the organization. Come on, it is under $100 for a continuous 10-year registration with GoDaddy, so it is not the money.

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Author: anuvaka Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 183417 of 189510
Subject: Re: lost ownership Date: 1/18/2013 12:48 AM
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I see a big problem. Domain renewal notifications are sent well (months?) in advance--and there is a "grace period" for renewal as well. I know.
I have not found out who they were sent to. The first site developer did the whole thing in HTML and was the only person who could change things.
Somewhere later he moved out of state,and the site was redone with 'templates' (tabs) which was 'easier to ues'. At least 3 people had admin rights to the site, but one of them has passed away.
I did ask that question, but did not get a straight answer.

Go back to the first ISP. Get ALL their info about when they got the renewal notices for the domain name expiration and when they provided them to you or your organization. Make sure your domain names are owned by the organization directly and renewed by the organization.

Well, I am not sure the organization "owned" the URL but paid rental time via the ISP. (I know, weird) And then, who was the main Admin contact? It shoud be one person and the Orgamization. But a lot of times personal addresses were used.
I will forward your sugesstions.
I also hope somone takes over repairing the .com site. It has been 3 months and the header is there and all the links are empty.

About a year ago there were new officers elected, in fact all are people I have never met before. And as all small organizations, only has about 5 active people of the 35 members. They seem to know the power of the internet, but don't have the knowlege to maintain their part of it.
we shall see.
jC


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Author: anuvaka Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 183418 of 189510
Subject: Re: lost ownership Date: 1/18/2013 1:06 AM
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i hate when that happens.
jC

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Author: mmrmnhrm Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 183422 of 189510
Subject: Re: lost ownership Date: 1/18/2013 8:40 AM
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i hate when that happens.
A little mirth from the past on this chilly Friday morning... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7JTaRF78_M

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Author: jerryab Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 183426 of 189510
Subject: Re: lost ownership Date: 1/18/2013 4:21 PM
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Well, I am not sure the organization "owned" the URL but paid rental time via the ISP.

The ISP paid maybe $7-$8 per year for the domain name registration--because that is the universal price for a .com domain name.

If they failed to notify you of the upcoming expiration, their liability. The new ISP should also have looked into it also. The important part is the old ISP could NOT transfer it if they did not have it registered--so they are on the hook regardless. If the old ISP failed to maintain registration through the transfer time period, <ka-ching!!>. The new ISP should have been told or could have done this simple lookup on your behalf--they would have to in order to see if the domain name COULD transfer. The fact it did not means the old ISP has strict, absolute, and unconditional liability to maintain your web site (including domain name registration) throughout the contract period with the ISP.

If the contract with the old ISP expired for some time (i.e. 2+ months with no website of any kind), then the domain name could have become available because no one was getting the messages it was expiring--and so they have no liability. The organization lost the domain name due to their own incompetence/negligence and no other reason.

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Author: tpault Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 183428 of 189510
Subject: Re: lost ownership Date: 1/18/2013 6:10 PM
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I understand this is done to make a large pfofit by selling the URL back to the original owner.

Well, large profit may be subjective. They may be willing to part with it for small profit, of $50 or something.

Is anyone in the historic organization hoping to get the original url back? Do they just not have an online presence now?

I use to use a trick that sometimes worked, when I didn't know or have an email address for anyone at a url. Sometimes "admin" works as a "to" field for email. For instance if the domain is www.localhistoricassociation.org, I would sometimes have success by sending an email to admin@localhistoricassociation.org

Best of luck,

Paul T.

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Author: grouse100 Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 183429 of 189510
Subject: Re: lost ownership Date: 1/18/2013 6:45 PM
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<They may be willing to part with it for small profit, of $50 or something.>

Please tell us Mr. Techie how you know this?


Wow really great trick, bet u used it a lot.


You have no credibility here. Until you apologize for insulting this board you are persona non gratis

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Author: anuvaka Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 183432 of 189510
Subject: Re: lost ownership Date: 1/18/2013 10:48 PM
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The organization lost the domain name due to their own incompetence/negligence and no other reason.


This is what I think happened which is why no one gives me a straight answer.
Right now they have (same-name).com address and another old one that links to (same-name) but the desire is to get back to the .org because of 501-c3 status.
The biggest problem seems to be a lack of net savy people who have a good memory. This may have been solved in the last weeks, but I haven't realy talked with the guy yet.
jC

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Author: jerryab Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 183434 of 189510
Subject: Re: lost ownership Date: 1/19/2013 11:38 AM
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Right now they have (same-name).com address and another old one that links to (same-name) but the desire is to get back to the .org because of 501-c3 status.

The fact the xyz.org domain name is NOT available is not a valid reason to not use the xyz.com domain name. Using .org for non-profits is a convention, not a requirement. A .com name would most likely attract the most users AND be more likely to be sought first by the general public. As long as your organization maintains a reasonable quest to obtain the .org domain name (i.e. is your name trademarked or in any other way *registered*?). If so, you may be able to compel the name be transferred to you because of that *registered* name. All it takes is a letter to the domain registrar with proof of that registered name. I.e. if it is the official LEGAL name of the organization, that might be sufficient. Have the lawyer write it up, document it, and send it to the .org domain registrar.

Here is a link to a list of the gTLD from ICANN:

http://www.icann.org/registrar-reports/accredited-list.html

You may be able to also claim the .org name is inappropriate for the current owner because they are using it for purposes in violation of the .org policy--which Public Interest Registry established with ICANN as a Registrar (see the link).

Regardless, the domain name should ALWAYS be owned by the business and monitored by the hosting company. Renewals should ALWAYS be for the longest possible time (10 yrs) precisely to prevent this type of problem.

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Author: tpault Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 183437 of 189510
Subject: Re: lost ownership Date: 1/19/2013 6:46 PM
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Jerry good points. And I suppose a local historical society isn't likely to have web optimization very high on their to-do list.

Paul T.

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Author: jerryab Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 183440 of 189510
Subject: Re: lost ownership Date: 1/19/2013 7:46 PM
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If they really are a local historical society for an entire area, they may be able to utilize a .gov or .us subdomain from their local town govt. That would not be subject to being hijacked unless it was by politicians.

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Author: ShouldKnowBetter Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 183443 of 189510
Subject: Re: lost ownership Date: 1/19/2013 9:33 PM
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You are becomming more of a pain than tpaul. Please stop

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Author: Philipo Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 183447 of 189510
Subject: Re: lost ownership Date: 1/19/2013 10:18 PM
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"the desire is to get back to the .org because of 501-c3 status"

the two are not related (likewise if the organization rented office space in a commercial zoned are of town - they're still a non prof by the more relevant requirements).

I agree with whoever suggested a .com is easier to find anyway so go with it. And if the org has some money burning a hole in it's pocket hire an attorney to draft & send notice to the poacher and complain to ICANN. http://www.icann.org/en/help/dispute-resolution
B

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Author: anuvaka Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 183449 of 189510
Subject: Re: lost ownership Date: 1/20/2013 12:20 AM
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Excelent.
I just e-mailed this info.
This is the type of legal standing and violation of the rules required.

And I suppose a local historical society isn't likely to have web optimization very high on their to-do list.

This is also true. Most members have a job and are not retired. Nor are they web site programers.

Thanks jerryab!
jC

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