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Author: RetiredVermonter Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 1951264  
Subject: Meaningless Debate Date: 10/4/2012 9:14 AM
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As a so-called "moderator" in the first debate, Jim Lehrer was a spineless, useless jellyfish. I hope Lehrer won't be "moderating" future "debates". He often (almost always) let Romney bully his way into the first AND last comments; actually cut off the president at least once (but did not do so with Romney); allowed Romney to ramble on and on, sometimes interrupting the president during the president's comments, while often halting the president at the end of his "time".

I do wish the president had been more forceful in insisting on being allowed to at least finish what he had to say.

This sure didn't change my preference: President Obama all the way.

Vermonter
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Author: SaintPatrick1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1820953 of 1951264
Subject: Re: Meaningless Debate Date: 10/4/2012 9:25 AM
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As a so-called "moderator" in the first debate, Jim Lehrer was a spineless, useless jellyfish. I hope Lehrer won't be "moderating" future "debates". He often (almost always) let Romney bully his way into the first AND last comments; actually cut off the president at least once (but did not do so with Romney); allowed Romney to ramble on and on, sometimes interrupting the president during the president's comments, while often halting the president at the end of his "time".


Obama spoke more than four more minutes than Romney did.

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Author: TheDope1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1820954 of 1951264
Subject: Re: Meaningless Debate Date: 10/4/2012 9:27 AM
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Obama spoke more than four more minutes than Romney did.

Yep. Kinda shoots a hole in the Blame Lehrer theory, doesn't it?

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Author: cjb44 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1820963 of 1951264
Subject: Re: Meaningless Debate Date: 10/4/2012 9:36 AM
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This sure didn't change my preference: President Obama all the way.

______________________

But in reality, was there really anything Obama or Romney could have done that would have changed your vote? They weren't speaking to you, the voter who's mind is already set and can't be changed. Right now their sole target audience is the undecided voter and the soft leaners who can be moved.

90+% of the voters are already set in their ways. Last night wasn't for them. It was for the rest of the people out there.

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Author: SGIZ1 Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1820966 of 1951264
Subject: Re: Meaningless Debate Date: 10/4/2012 9:39 AM
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"This sure didn't change my preference: President Obama all the way.

Vermonter "

Of course, Obama's a proven disaster and failure, but you are still all in.

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Author: cjb44 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1820974 of 1951264
Subject: Re: Meaningless Debate Date: 10/4/2012 9:49 AM
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Obama spoke more than four more minutes than Romney did.

Yep. Kinda shoots a hole in the Blame Lehrer theory, doesn't it?

_____________________

Well if Lehrer was more balanced he wouldn't have given Obama more time to talk. It's clear that the more Obama talks the more trouble he gets in. Especially when he's off the teleprompter.

It's clearly Lehrer's fault for letting Obama actually speak. And Romney knew to get out of the way. #1 rule in debating is, when your advisary is harming himself, don't get involved.

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Author: spikie Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1820994 of 1951264
Subject: Re: Meaningless Debate Date: 10/4/2012 10:10 AM
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A debate isn't about the moderator. A moderator, if he is doing his job, is invisible or nearly so, within the structure of the debate. The moderator is a guide, not a commander.

If you want the moderator to rule with an iron fist, go to a totalitarian country and discuss politics. Here, we want an exchange of ideas - a drawing of differences, as it were - so we can understand why we should prefer one candidate over another.

That happened last night.

I'm not sorry that your candidate did not win (he did not). I belief the dearth of ideas he possesses was vividly shown last night. Our country deserves better than what we have had for the past four years. Our children deserve better than debt piled upon debt with no end in sight. Mr. Obama cannot lead us to that - that is obvious.

It is time for a new direction. We cannot get that by staying on the same path.

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Author: HMALETTER Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1820998 of 1951264
Subject: Re: Meaningless Debate Date: 10/4/2012 10:15 AM
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I do wish the president had been more forceful in insisting on being allowed to at least finish what he had to say.

This sure didn't change my preference: President Obama all the way.

Vermonter
_______________________

LOL Didn't go your way eh?

Look, a real leader took Obama to school. Obama was subordinate to Romney, who took charge and control of the debate. Obama talked longer than Romney, it's just that he was boring, lacked passion, and apparently said nothing that interested you.

Don't blame Lehrer because he allowed Obama to speak longer, and don;t blame him because you chose to ignore Obama.

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Author: SGIZ1 Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1821004 of 1951264
Subject: Re: Meaningless Debate Date: 10/4/2012 10:22 AM
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"Look, a real leader took Obama to school. Obama was subordinate to Romney, who took charge and control of the debate."

Romney is an experience executive in both the private and public sector, it showed last night. Remember, Obama only has 4 years of executive experience under his belt, an apprentice compared to Romney.

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Author: nigelwhalmsley Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1821020 of 1951264
Subject: Re: Meaningless Debate Date: 10/4/2012 11:01 AM
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"Romney is an experience executive in both the private and public sector, it showed last night. Remember, Obama only has 4 years of executive experience under his belt, an apprentice compared to Romney."

That would be great if we wanted a President to be able to do deals and leverage debt/capital, ships jobs to cheaper countries, etc. That IS what Romney's executive experience consists of, as you know. Not of much use as CiC, nor as President. That is why he has offered no specifics on his tax plan, or how he expects to get things passed through Congress. He'll just 'sit down with them'? Seriously?

D.C. is NOT Ma. His experience is meaningless in that environment. It is great that he was able to build a personal fortune. Being good at building personal wealth has never translated into being a good political leader.

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Author: cjb44 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1821067 of 1951264
Subject: Re: Meaningless Debate Date: 10/4/2012 12:11 PM
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That is why he has offered no specifics on his tax plan, or how he expects to get things passed through Congress. He'll just 'sit down with them'? Seriously?

____________

You know that describes Obama 2008. Romney 2012 is more qualified than Obama 2008. Romney has showed that he can work with Democrats, he did so as Governor...what did Obama have as a bi-partisan anything prior to the GOP taking over Congress in 2011?

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Author: SGIZ1 Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1821073 of 1951264
Subject: Re: Meaningless Debate Date: 10/4/2012 12:16 PM
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"Romney has showed that he can work with Democrats, he did so as Governor"

Romney worked with an 87% Democrat environment while Governor and got alot done.

WE all seen Obama's attempt to work across the isle with his actions toward Republicans over the last 4 years (especially in the first 2 years) "i won, you don't get to add anything, you are welcome to agree with my stuff, but i will not listen to your stuff"

There is no argument on who has a better track record of working together across the isle, its not even close.

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Author: notehound Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1821088 of 1951264
Subject: Re: Meaningless Debate Date: 10/4/2012 12:36 PM
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You know that describes Obama 2008. Romney 2012 is more qualified than Obama 2008. Romney has showed that he can work with Democrats, he did so as Governor...what did Obama have as a bi-partisan anything prior to the GOP taking over Congress in 2011?

Obama is not a dealmaker, Romney is. Which one do you think has learned "the art of the deal?" Romney has - both in business and in government. That's the reason he flip-flops. He does whatever's necessary to move the deal forward.

Obama just hasn't ever learned to cut deals. He started out on the wrong foot when he dissed McCain in the bailout negotiations. Then, he failed to attend jobs council and other dealmaking meetings (preferring golf), didn't make enough phone calls to cajole Congress members week after week, month after month like all other presidents have done. When he finally was forced to try to do a deal on the debt limit (the "Grand Bargain" negotiations), he lost his temper over an unreturned phone call and added last minute changes to a deal that had already been agreed to by both parties, as Bob Woodward has reported:

...Obama "was spewing coals," Boehner told Woodward, calling it a near "presidential tirade," according to a report on the book by ABC News.

The president and aides said Boehner had failed to return previous presidential calls, and backed away from a deal because he feared loss of support from Tea Party members of his caucus.

"I was pretty angry," Obama told Woodward. "There's no doubt I thought it was profoundly irresponsible, at that stage, not to call me back immediately and let me know what was going on."

Boehner said the White House loaded down the deal at the end with too many tax hikes; Obama would later say he only broached the possibility of new government revenues.

"He (the president) was pissed," Boehner told Woodward. "He wasn't going to get a damn dime more out of me. He knew how far out on a limb I was. But he was hot. It was clear to me that coming to an agreement with him was not going to happen, and that I had to go to Plan B."


http://content.usatoday.com/communities/theoval/post/2012/09...

Obama disrespects his "subordinates" in Congress, certainly those on the opposing team - then "delegates" his policy formation to them, like he did Pelosi and Reid on healthcare.

Congressmen are not "subordinates," they are equals - and a president who wants to do deals needs to treat them as such. Horse-trading and cajoling, stroking old guys' egos are all part of getting laws passed and moving agendas forward.

If Obama had ever been in business, he'd have learned how to cut deals with opponents and jerks, bartering and trading with those you despise. His experience was in demagoguery and rabble rousing - which stirs up people and gets companies and powerful people to cough up money and do things that the mob demands, but not as a result of arms-length negotiations or voluntary compromise. Community organizers are good at extracting involuntary concessions and capitulation by protests and force. That is not the world of business deals or Washington Congressional politics.

Obama's style of "negotiation" works great in the non-profit and activist worlds, but it doesn't work in boardrooms or in Congress.

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Author: SGIZ1 Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1821092 of 1951264
Subject: Re: Meaningless Debate Date: 10/4/2012 12:39 PM
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"Obama is not a dealmaker"

That's because rigid ideolouges do not compromize their beliefs (its his way or no way).

With Romneys track record of working with both parties, one thing you can't call him is a rigid ideologue.

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Author: kenm47 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1821094 of 1951264
Subject: Re: Meaningless Debate Date: 10/4/2012 12:42 PM
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"With Romneys track record of working with both parties, one thing you can't call him is a rigid ideologue. "

Nope. You're right. He's made his family motto into: "Which Way Is the Wind Blowing Today?"

Ken

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Author: SGIZ1 Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1821096 of 1951264
Subject: Re: Meaningless Debate Date: 10/4/2012 12:44 PM
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"Nope. You're right. He's made his family motto into: "Which Way Is the Wind Blowing Today?"

Ken "

Which fits the description of moderate, which will help Romney with the moderates/undecided/independant who are more mushy/work together/get along/compromise/be flexible type minded people. And in an election where these type voters are key, not a bad place for Romney to be.

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Author: kenm47 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1821099 of 1951264
Subject: Re: Meaningless Debate Date: 10/4/2012 12:49 PM
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"Which fits the description of moderate ..."

You misspelled "blatant opportunist."

Ken

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Author: SGIZ1 Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1821102 of 1951264
Subject: Re: Meaningless Debate Date: 10/4/2012 12:51 PM
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"You misspelled "blatant opportunist."

Ken"

Is that how the left really views moderates/undecided/independants? Don't hold back, let it out.

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1821286 of 1951264
Subject: Re: Meaningless Debate Date: 10/4/2012 10:31 PM
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Obama talked 43 min

Romney only 38.5

Lehrer should have shut up Obama when time was up.


t.

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Author: PolymerMom Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1821293 of 1951264
Subject: Re: Meaningless Debate Date: 10/4/2012 11:28 PM
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The new format failed, not the moderator.

Given that Jim Lehrer is 78 and didn't really want to moderate the debate in its new format, I wouldn't land on him too hard. He did encourage a decent back and forth.

fwiw, some were calling for the moderator to call each participant's answers in cases of "factual impairment". That sounds like a recipe for each side to cry foul over any interaction.

PM

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Author: RetiredVermonter Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1821330 of 1951264
Subject: Re: Meaningless Debate Date: 10/5/2012 8:28 AM
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If Lehrer is 78, and didn't even WANT to moderate, why on earth did they have him do this for such an important event?

Sometimes, it seems as if common sense or intelligence are missing.

Yes, he should have more strongly limited BOTH men, but he seemed helpless vs the more strident Romney, and that was what bothered me.

Vermonter

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Author: kenm47 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1821331 of 1951264
Subject: Re: Meaningless Debate Date: 10/5/2012 8:35 AM
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"Yes, he should have more strongly limited BOTH men, but he seemed helpless vs the more strident Romney, and that was what bothered me."

Jimmy Fallon's take:

http://www.nbcdfw.com/entertainment/television/NATL-Jimmy-Fa...

Ken

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Author: CCinOC Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1821399 of 1951264
Subject: Re: Meaningless Debate Date: 10/5/2012 10:55 AM
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RetiredVermonter wrote: Yes, he should have more strongly limited BOTH men, but he seemed helpless vs the more strident Romney, and that was what bothered me.


Your partisanship is showing.

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Author: RetiredVermonter Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1821433 of 1951264
Subject: Re: Meaningless Debate Date: 10/5/2012 12:24 PM
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CCinOC:

Do you disagree about Romney being more "strident"? After all, he was praised for that, really!

However, I think today's lower unemployment number of 7.8 may help the president, too.

Vermonter

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Author: RetiredVermonter Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1821437 of 1951264
Subject: Re: Meaningless Debate Date: 10/5/2012 12:26 PM
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SGIZ1:

Romney "moderate"? Liar, maybe, but moderate? He can't get too "moderate" lest he risk alienating the Limbaugh "dittoheads" and Tea Party kooks.

Vermonter

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Author: TheDope1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1821439 of 1951264
Subject: Re: Meaningless Debate Date: 10/5/2012 12:32 PM
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The new format failed, not the moderator.

The format was excellent.

Previous debates feature the moderator as the star of the show. Lehrer did his job. How? He stayed out of it and let the candidates go at one another.

It's not Lehrer's fault that Obama thought he could just show up and win. You libs always forget the most basic lesson of sports: That's why they play the game.

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