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Author: JoelCairo Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 1961939  
Subject: Memphis ends Confederate Honor Date: 2/8/2013 11:18 AM
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Great news from Memphis -- the City has renamed three city parks previously samed for the Confederacy, Jefferson Davis, and the founder of the KKK, Nathan Bedford Forrest.

One hundred and fifty years after the end of the South's war to preserve slavery (read their secession proclamations before you tell me it was about the politically correct "states rights" issue) there is finally some sign that it is counterproductive to national unity and growth to continue to honor what, in any other time, would have been termed treason.

The downside is that what prompted Memphis to finally take this stand was a law passed in Nashville, the state capitol, which, when it took effect, what have taken away the City's right to name its municipal possessions and services.

I hope other cities, counties and states will follow Memphis' lead. Because it has to come from the South.

I remember once visiting the impressive and grand Texas Capitol building in Austin -- a great experience, marred by a walk amongst the monumemts strewing the grounds, dedicated to what the raisers of the monuments viewed as heroic Texans of the past. Many Confederate monuments, to brigades/regiments who had fought and sacrificed and military leaders like John Bell Hood. The language of the monuments, honoring their standing up for liberty, against tyranny, etc. was a shock and an embarassment. And I wondered how other great Texans, like Barbara Jordan, who worked for a decade or more as a legislator, must have felt going to work every day and walking past monuments honoring people who gace their lives so her ancestors could remain slaves.

So, regardless of the freason they did it, hail Memphis!
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Author: Hawkwin Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858489 of 1961939
Subject: Re: Memphis ends Confederate Honor Date: 2/8/2013 11:35 AM
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Me thinks you are reading WAAAAY to much into this.

Next you will be asking us to rename things like King George St, Cornwallis St, or Howe St because of the Revolutionary War.

How do the great states of Maryland, New York and others tolerate naming their streets after the enemy? We need a law to correct this injustice. What a "shock and embarassment."

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Author: JediGALT Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858492 of 1961939
Subject: Re: Memphis ends Confederate Honor Date: 2/8/2013 11:47 AM
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How do the great states of Maryland, New York and others tolerate naming their streets after the enemy
****

But that stuff is boring.

Those topics don't give Liberals (who see everyone as Black or White 1st, before just equal human beings) the license to post about confederate flags and seem like heroes of civil rights and champions of equality.

But while we're on the subject, here's to ALL Americans, black AND white who died in the civil war trying to end slavery.

Also, here's to those who fought for the Confederacy for reasons OTHER than wanting to prevent slavery.

Where it is decent, everyone's history and heritage and sacrifice should be honored....vs using one injustice to appear holier than though on a cyber message board.

JediG

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Author: BlueGrits Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858494 of 1961939
Subject: Re: Memphis ends Confederate Honor Date: 2/8/2013 11:59 AM
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One hundred and fifty years after the end of the South's war to preserve slavery (read their secession proclamations before you tell me it was about the politically correct "states rights" issue) there is finally some sign that it is counterproductive to national unity and growth to continue to honor what, in any other time, would have been termed treason.

Oh, that's definitely the reason for secession -- it just wasn't the reason for the Civil War. Not that slavery remained legal in non-Confederate states until the 13th was passed.

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Author: JoelCairo Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858496 of 1961939
Subject: Re: Memphis ends Confederate Honor Date: 2/8/2013 12:11 PM
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Next you will be asking us to rename things like King George St, Cornwallis St, or Howe St because of the Revolutionary War.

Nope, I won't. Apples and oranges. And I wouldn't change the names of every Davis Street or Forest Street either, if that's the whole name. But go ahead, if you want a politically correct street name law, live it up!

BTW, can I infer that you think monuments to Nathan Bedford Forrest should remain standing?

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Author: cjb44 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858498 of 1961939
Subject: Re: Memphis ends Confederate Honor Date: 2/8/2013 12:18 PM
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Does West Virginia need to remove Robert Byrd's name from almost every building?

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Author: kenm47 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858506 of 1961939
Subject: Re: Memphis ends Confederate Honor Date: 2/8/2013 12:40 PM
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"Does West Virginia need to remove Robert Byrd's name from almost every building?"

Because he fought for the South in the Civil War?

No?

Ken

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Author: TheDope1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858508 of 1961939
Subject: Re: Memphis ends Confederate Honor Date: 2/8/2013 12:44 PM
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Because he fought for the South in the Civil War?

No?


No, because he was in the Klan and held a high rank with them.

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Author: eatenbybears Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858509 of 1961939
Subject: Re: Memphis ends Confederate Honor Date: 2/8/2013 12:45 PM
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"Does West Virginia need to remove Robert Byrd's name from almost every building?"

Because he fought for the South in the Civil War?

No?

Ken "

In the early 1940s, a politically ambitious butcher from West Virginia named Bob Byrd recruited 150 of his friends and associates to form a chapter of the Ku Klux Klan. After Byrd had collected the $10 joining fee and $3 charge for a robe and hood from every applicant, the "Grand Dragon" for the mid-Atlantic states came down to tiny Crab Orchard, W.Va., to officially organize the chapter.

As Byrd recalls now, the Klan official, Joel L. Baskin of Arlington, Va., was so impressed with the young Byrd's organizational skills that he urged him to go into politics. "The country needs young men like you in the leadership of the nation," Baskin said.



http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06...

Bears

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Author: BlueGrits Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858511 of 1961939
Subject: Re: Memphis ends Confederate Honor Date: 2/8/2013 12:55 PM
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Does West Virginia need to remove Robert Byrd's name from almost every building?

They'd just change it to "Stonewall" (Jackson).

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Author: JoelCairo Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858513 of 1961939
Subject: Re: Memphis ends Confederate Honor Date: 2/8/2013 12:57 PM
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Does West Virginia need to remove Robert Byrd's name from almost every building?

It's up to them. Did he lead a war of secession? Let me know about that.

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Author: kenm47 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858514 of 1961939
Subject: Re: Memphis ends Confederate Honor Date: 2/8/2013 12:58 PM
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"No, because he was in the Klan and held a high rank with them."

He renounced those views later in life, no.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06...

Did those Civil War Heroes of the South renounce their views?

Ken

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Author: kenm47 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858515 of 1961939
Subject: Re: Memphis ends Confederate Honor Date: 2/8/2013 1:01 PM
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Keep reading, Bears.

" Despite his many achievements, however, the venerated Byrd has never been able to fully erase the stain of his association with one of the most reviled hate groups in the nation's history.

"It has emerged throughout my life to haunt and embarrass me and has taught me in a very graphic way what one major mistake can do to one's life, career, and reputation," Byrd wrote in a new memoir -- "Robert C. Byrd: Child of the Appalachian Coalfields" -- that will be published tomorrow by West Virginia University Press.
***
Last week, Byrd said: "I know now I was wrong. Intolerance had no place in America. I apologized a thousand times . . . and I don't mind apologizing over and over again. I can't erase what happened." "

Ken

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Author: cjb44 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858516 of 1961939
Subject: Re: Memphis ends Confederate Honor Date: 2/8/2013 1:03 PM
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Did those Civil War Heroes of the South renounce their views?

_______________

Yes, they were required to after the war. They had to take a loyatly oath to the United States as part of the surrender agreement.

Now you can say the renouncment was phony and insinerce and I'd probably agree with you...but I'd say the same of Robert Byrd. I don't believe that one can change their heart without a massive life experience.

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Author: cjb44 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858517 of 1961939
Subject: Re: Memphis ends Confederate Honor Date: 2/8/2013 1:04 PM
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Because he fought for the South in the Civil War?

___________

Don't be silly, he was still in grade school then...that's a pretty high standard wouldn't you say?

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Author: kenm47 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858518 of 1961939
Subject: Re: Memphis ends Confederate Honor Date: 2/8/2013 1:06 PM
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"Now you can say the renouncment was phony and insinerce and I'd probably agree with you...but I'd say the same of Robert Byrd. I don't believe that one can change their heart without a massive life experience. "

So, you're no fan of Truman either?

Ken

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Author: kenm47 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858519 of 1961939
Subject: Re: Memphis ends Confederate Honor Date: 2/8/2013 1:09 PM
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"that's a pretty high standard wouldn't you say? "

I don't know. Are there statues/monuments of Byrd down there honoring him for his service in the KKK like the statues/monuments honoring the Civil War Heroes for their service to the Confederacy?

Ken

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Author: cjb44 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858520 of 1961939
Subject: Re: Memphis ends Confederate Honor Date: 2/8/2013 1:11 PM
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So, you're no fan of Truman either?

___________

I'm not a fan of any politician...and I never heard of Truman being in the KKK.

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Author: cjb44 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858521 of 1961939
Subject: Re: Memphis ends Confederate Honor Date: 2/8/2013 1:14 PM
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I don't know. Are there statues/monuments of Byrd down there honoring him for his service in the KKK like the statues/monuments honoring the Civil War Heroes for their service to the Confederacy?

_________________

Does it really matter? Would it be OK if USC kept a Statue of OJ Simpson because of his actions on the field?

BTW, I think everything honoring him is based on the fact that he directed Billions of dollars to the State for buildings with his name on them.

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Author: kenm47 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858523 of 1961939
Subject: Re: Memphis ends Confederate Honor Date: 2/8/2013 1:16 PM
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"and I never heard of Truman being in the KKK. "

"Presidents and others who were members of the KKK
***
President Harry S. Truman was a minor ordinary Klansman from 1920 - 1922. His two year membership was not notable and somewhat lacking. He eventually had a major falling out with the KKK over his desire to appoint RomanCatholics to key political positions; something which all of the KKK opposed at the time. Some Klans now not only accept Roman Catholics but actively recruit them. The true Ku Klux Klan is however traditionally and rightfully opposed to Roman Catholicism and Papists influence over America. President Harry S. Truman was currying favor with Roman Catholic voters and was more interested in his political career than the Klan or the good of America. He severed all ties with the KKK and openly repudiated them. They didn't call the arrogant upstart "give them Hell Harry", for nothing. His family has tired to deny his KKK membership ever since, but has failed miserably since it is a well established fact of documented history."

http://able2know.org/topic/99462-1

Ken

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Author: kenm47 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858524 of 1961939
Subject: Re: Memphis ends Confederate Honor Date: 2/8/2013 1:18 PM
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"Does it really matter? Would it be OK if USC kept a Statue of OJ Simpson because of his actions on the field? "

Somehow, I'm missing the point on that. Not seeing how the murders O.J was accused of (and may have committed) is analogous to the Civil War and the Southern mentality/racism that prevailed for so long, KKK or not.

BTW, is there such an O.J. statue?

Ken

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Author: cjb44 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858526 of 1961939
Subject: Re: Memphis ends Confederate Honor Date: 2/8/2013 1:20 PM
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Then screw him. The only man to use a Nuke (twice) and a member of the KKK...sorry to say, screw him. Although it appears he wasn't a high ranking member like Byrd...apparently young Democrats joined the Klan.

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Author: TheDope1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858529 of 1961939
Subject: Re: Memphis ends Confederate Honor Date: 2/8/2013 1:24 PM
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He renounced those views later in life, no.
LOL. If it were a Republican, he'd be a racist for life.

Did those Civil War Heroes of the South renounce their views?

Let's ask them...oh, wait. They're dead.

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Author: TheDope1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858531 of 1961939
Subject: Re: Memphis ends Confederate Honor Date: 2/8/2013 1:33 PM
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So, you're no fan of Truman either?


Truman wasn't in the Klan.

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Author: TheDope1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858534 of 1961939
Subject: Re: Memphis ends Confederate Honor Date: 2/8/2013 2:00 PM
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Okay, looks like he was, along with most democrats in the 1920's.

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Author: kenm47 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858536 of 1961939
Subject: Re: Memphis ends Confederate Honor Date: 2/8/2013 2:03 PM
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"Truman wasn't in the Klan. "

Fail!

Ken

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Author: kenm47 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858537 of 1961939
Subject: Re: Memphis ends Confederate Honor Date: 2/8/2013 2:04 PM
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"Okay, looks like he was, along with most democrats in the 1920's. "

Those would be the Dixiecrats that pretty much morphed into the Republican southern block and strategy.

Yes, with exceptions.

Ken

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Author: Hawkwin Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858538 of 1961939
Subject: Re: Memphis ends Confederate Honor Date: 2/8/2013 2:05 PM
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BTW, can I infer that you think monuments to Nathan Bedford Forrest should remain standing?

You can infer that I don't support political correctness or white-washing (pun intend) history by renaming streets, parks, and buildings.

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Author: TheDope1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858540 of 1961939
Subject: Re: Memphis ends Confederate Honor Date: 2/8/2013 2:08 PM
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Those would be the Dixiecrats that pretty much morphed into the Republican southern block and strategy.

Yes, with exceptions.


Sorry, no. The Southern Strategy is a lie and racism has had a cherished home in the democrat party for years and years.

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Author: Hawkwin Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858541 of 1961939
Subject: Re: Memphis ends Confederate Honor Date: 2/8/2013 2:10 PM
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He renounced those views later in life, no.


Well hell, then! If that is the standard, every Founding Father that owned slaves and did not renounce slavery before their death should have their name removed from all public places.

That goes double for any of them that had sex with their slaves - because that might as well have been rape.

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Author: kenm47 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858549 of 1961939
Subject: Re: Memphis ends Confederate Honor Date: 2/8/2013 2:57 PM
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"Well hell, then! If that is the standard, every Founding Father that owned slaves and did not renounce slavery before their death should have their name removed from all public places."

The only thing the Founding Fathers seceded from was Great Britain.


Ken

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Author: eatenbybears Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858551 of 1961939
Subject: Re: Memphis ends Confederate Honor Date: 2/8/2013 3:25 PM
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Last week, Byrd said: "I know now I was wrong. Intolerance had no place in America.

I believe the Nazis at Nirenberg passed on similar statements about their involvement in Germany.

I also understand that Jeffrey Dahmer apologized toe the court when he stated .... "I am so sorry I killed 15 people, but the recipe was so hard to get right.

Bears

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Author: eatenbybears Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858553 of 1961939
Subject: Re: Memphis ends Confederate Honor Date: 2/8/2013 3:26 PM
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Keep reading, Bears.

" Despite his many achievements, however, the venerated Byrd has never been able to fully erase the stain of his association with one of the most reviled hate groups in the nation's history.


Liberals defending bigots and racists ...... :)

Bears

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Author: kenm47 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858563 of 1961939
Subject: Re: Memphis ends Confederate Honor Date: 2/8/2013 4:02 PM
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"Liberals defending bigots and racists ...... :)"

You're into a whole other thing from what this thread started as, and then the throwing in of the reference re Byrd by other than the OP.

No one is defending Byrd.

The issue is the monuments, etc, to Dixie and what their place is in modern Memphis.

Ken

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Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858582 of 1961939
Subject: Re: Memphis ends Confederate Honor Date: 2/8/2013 5:18 PM
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Memphis ends Confederate Honor
==============================

Oh the things that make liberals feel so good about themselves.

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Author: JoelCairo Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858583 of 1961939
Subject: Re: Memphis ends Confederate Honor Date: 2/8/2013 5:21 PM
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You can infer that I don't support political correctness or white-washing (pun intend) history by renaming streets, parks, and buildings.

Then you probably are applauding the moves in Russia to revive the name and visibility of Uncle Joe.

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Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858584 of 1961939
Subject: Re: Memphis ends Confederate Honor Date: 2/8/2013 5:21 PM
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Does West Virginia need to remove Robert Byrd's name from almost every building?

Pointing out these things creates cognitive dissonance in a liberal's brain which doesn't make them feel good about themselves.

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Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858590 of 1961939
Subject: Re: Memphis ends Confederate Honor Date: 2/8/2013 5:53 PM
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Wonder if those compasssionate and understanding liberal apologists and defenders of Robert Byrd would give the same heartfelt defense and benefit of the doubt to these two ladies:

http://boards.fool.com/two-sisters-leave-westboro-baptist-ch...

Just askin'

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Author: MissEdithKeeler Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858613 of 1961939
Subject: Re: Memphis ends Confederate Honor Date: 2/8/2013 10:50 PM
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Actually, there's some historical evidence that Nathan Bedford Forrest renounced a lot of his racist beliefs; he gave a couple of speeches to black organizations near the end of his life about reconciliation.

The statue of Forrest is not a commemmoration of his Klan activities; it reconizes that he was a master of battle strategy which had a major effect on various battles.

I happen to live in Memphis; I'm not sure I agree with the renaming of the park. We whitewash a lot of history, I'm afraid, and I'm not sure we're any better than the old Soviets rewriting history. Like a lot of people through the years, Forrest probably had his good characteristics and bad; it seems to me like a better discussion, and a better understanding of history (and making sure we aren't doomed to repeat it) happens when we acknowledge the wholeness of history, not just the parts we like and don't like.

They've been trying to rename that park for years.

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Author: crassfool Big funky green star, 20000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858622 of 1961939
Subject: Re: Memphis ends Confederate Honor Date: 2/9/2013 12:35 AM
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Hawkwin says

Next you will be asking us to rename things like King George St, Cornwallis St, or Howe St because of the Revolutionary War.

Oh, I don't think so.


How do the great states of Maryland, New York and others tolerate naming their streets after the enemy? We need a law to correct this injustice. What a "shock and embarassment."

England ceased to be any sort of enemy a long time ago. The Confederacy, maybe not so much.

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Author: crassfool Big funky green star, 20000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858623 of 1961939
Subject: Re: Memphis ends Confederate Honor Date: 2/9/2013 12:39 AM
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bears quotes

In the early 1940s, a politically ambitious butcher from West Virginia named Bob Byrd recruited 150 of his friends and associates to form a chapter of the Ku Klux Klan. After Byrd had collected the $10 joining fee and $3 charge for a robe and hood from every applicant, the "Grand Dragon" for the mid-Atlantic states came down to tiny Crab Orchard, W.Va., to officially organize the chapter.

As Byrd recalls now, the Klan official, Joel L. Baskin of Arlington, Va., was so impressed with the young Byrd's organizational skills that he urged him to go into politics. "The country needs young men like you in the leadership of the nation," Baskin said.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06......


...and then, in the course of time, Robert Byrd grew up and renounced the Klan and became a useful citizen. Unlike some.

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Author: anniesdad Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858632 of 1961939
Subject: Re: Memphis ends Confederate Honor Date: 2/9/2013 9:44 AM
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The statue of Forrest is not a commemmoration of his Klan activities; it reconizes that he was a master of battle strategy which had a major effect on various battles.

Maybe.

Forrest attacks Ft. Pillow.


Recent histories agree that a massacre occurred: Richard Fuchs, author of An Unerring Fire, concludes, “The affair at Fort Pillow was simply an orgy of death, a mass lynching to satisfy the basest of conduct – intentional murder – for the vilest of reasons – racism and personal enmity

Conflicting reports of what happened next, from 16:00 to dusk, led to controversy. Union and Confederate sources claimed that even though the Union troops surrendered, Forrest's men massacred them in cold blood. Surviving members of the garrison said that most of their men surrendered and threw down their arms, only to be shot or bayoneted by the attackers, who repeatedly shouted, "No quarter! No quarter!"[8] The Joint Committee On the Conduct of the War immediately investigated the incident and concluded that the Confederates shot most of the garrison after it had surrendered. A 2002 study by Albert Castel concluded that the Union forces were indiscriminately massacred after Fort Pillow "had ceased resisting or was incapable of resistance."[9] Historian Andrew Ward in 2005 reached the conclusion that an atrocity in the modern sense occurred at Fort Pillow, including the murders of fleeing black civilians

From U S Grants memoirs:

Forrest, however, fell back rapidly, and attacked the troops at Fort Pillow, a station for the protection of the navigation of the Mississippi River. The garrison consisted of a regiment of colored troops, infantry, and a detachment of Tennessee cavalry. These troops fought bravely, but were overpowered. I will leave Forrest in his dispatches to tell what he did with them. "The river was dyed," he [Forrest] says, "with the blood of the slaughtered for two hundred yards. The approximate loss was upward of five hundred killed, but few of the officers escaping. My loss was about twenty killed. It is hoped that these facts will demonstrate to the Northern people that negro soldiers cannot cope with Southerners." Subsequently, Forrest made a report in which he left out the part which shocks humanity to read.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Fort_Pillow

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Author: Vetiver Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858636 of 1961939
Subject: Re: Memphis ends Confederate Honor Date: 2/9/2013 10:23 AM
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In most of the west, we have cannon of duties. Although we are all different religions and atheists as well, your highest duty is expected to be to honor a shared sense of right and wrong. Next would come loyalties: country, family, things like that. In Japan, on e thing that makes Japan really different, their highest duty is loyalties: loyalty to the emperor, the country, ancestors, family, even the company that you work for. It is right and wrong that comes down the list; still there but down the list a bit.

Having loyalty at the top of their moral priorities means things like honoring ancestors, even if it cause them problems. This is why the Japanese Prime Minister continues to lay flowers on Tojo's grave even though Tojo was hanged as a war criminal.

Last year, due to a combination of the ending of energy subsidies and the after effects of the Tsunami, TV sets sales in Japan were down 70% vs 2011. Set sales were also down in most of the rest of the world as the world still deals with the "great recession". Set sales were up in China though, the Chinese market was booming. However due to a combination of legal restrictions and the overall fact that the Chinese still have issues with Japan over what Japan did in WWII, Japanese brands have negligible share in China. Panasonic is closing its plasma business and struggling in LCD. Sony has lost money on TV for 7 years in a row. Sharp's continued existence has been questioned and the company has been seeking a partner to prop it up. Samsung and LG, the two major Korean brands are doing just fine and doing well in China.

At some point Japan may stop doing things like annually honoring Tojo; they do understand the impression that it leaves. In the US, we may stop honoring the founder of the KKK. At some point we may realize that Robert E. Lee routinely had American POWs (the Black ones) killed and stop honoring someone for killing American POWs. In Japan, I would not expect them to change their priorities just to give in to the economic consequences. In the US, I expect that the it would be the slow realization the Black people were human beings and Americans prior to 1865. Murdering a Black POW in the civil war was murdering an American POW.

V.

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Author: JoelCairo Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1858646 of 1961939
Subject: Re: Memphis ends Confederate Honor Date: 2/9/2013 12:07 PM
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Actually, there's some historical evidence that Nathan Bedford Forrest renounced a lot of his racist beliefs; he gave a couple of speeches to black organizations near the end of his life about reconciliation.

Yes there is such evidence, and from credible sources, like the New York Times.

The statue of Forrest is not a commemmoration of his Klan activities; it reconizes that he was a master of battle strategy which had a major effect on various battles.

No. It is commemoration of a slave trader who was a brilliant military commander in the unlawful war to destroy the United States, and under whose command occurred a massacre of black union soldiers at Fort Pillow. Even if the motives in 1904 were pure, as Jim Crow took solid control for another half century or more, it was inappropriate at best.

And the statue, unfortunately, is still standing. Just the name of the park has been changed.

Like a lot of people through the years, Forrest probably had his good characteristics and bad; it seems to me like a better discussion, and a better understanding of history (and making sure we aren't doomed to repeat it) happens when we acknowledge the wholeness of history, not just the parts we like and don't like.

The whitewash is that Forrest was worthy of a monument despite his rebellion against his country and his command of the Fort Pillow massacre. To acknowledge his brilliance on the battlefield and in military strategy is one thing; to raise statues, name parks and schools, is quite another.

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