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Author: SaintPatrick1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 1956887  
Subject: Michael Moore: guns in schools would work Date: 12/27/2012 9:25 AM
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In his blog, Moore said that Connecticut’s tough gun laws “did nothing to prevent” Adam Lanza from killing 20 children and 6 others at the Sandy Hook Elementary School.

Tough gun laws “won't really bring about an end to these mass slayings and it will not address the core problem we have,” Moore said. “Connecticut had one of the strongest gun laws in the country. That did nothing to prevent the murders of 20 small children on December 14th.”

He said a “dirty little fact” liberals do not want to discuss is that the “killer only ceased his slaughter when he saw that cops were swarming onto the school grounds – i.e, the men with the guns.”

“When he saw the guns a-coming, he stopped the bloodshed and killed himself,” Moore said of Lanza. “Guns on police officers prevented another 20 or 40 or 100 deaths from happening.”

“Guns sometimes work,” he said.
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Author: Rightime Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1848884 of 1956887
Subject: Re: Michael Moore: guns in schools would work Date: 12/27/2012 3:09 PM
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He said a “dirty little fact” liberals do not want to discuss is that the “killer only ceased his slaughter when he saw that cops were swarming onto the school grounds – i.e, the men with the guns.”


So as far as this analogy can stretch, armed officers will prevent Further mass murder. The same story holds for the Virginia Tech sicko shooter; it was only after police “were-a-swarming” did he turn the gun on himself. Having an army of armed (including assault weapons,) train officers, with cars, a command center, radios didn’t Prevent mass killing, even though they had two hours to stop him knowing he was loose on the campus.

No one is suggesting that we shouldn’t have a well-armed, ready police force.

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Author: xLife Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1848897 of 1956887
Subject: Re: Michael Moore: guns in schools would work Date: 12/27/2012 3:28 PM
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Moore is right.

Although an assault weapons ban would likely reduce the number and severity of these kinds of shootings, it wouldn't eliminate them.

And allowing teachers to carry weapons, as well as providing security guards to schools, would take them off the "soft-target" list. (It would also likely increase the number of shooting accidents in schools by a lot, and result in more deaths than school shootings.)

The one thing you can count on after a school shooting is for both sides of the gun control argument to lose their heads.

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Author: ramsfanray Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849017 of 1956887
Subject: Re: Michael Moore: guns in schools would work Date: 12/27/2012 9:13 PM
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“Guns sometimes work,” he said.

Finally, someone said something sensible.

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Author: ramsfanray Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849022 of 1956887
Subject: Re: Michael Moore: guns in schools would work Date: 12/27/2012 9:22 PM
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No one is suggesting that we shouldn’t have a well-armed, ready police force.


But many are suggesting that we shouldn't have someone on-site. An armed guard might have limited the number of deaths to far less than 20.

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Author: Rightime Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849274 of 1956887
Subject: Re: Michael Moore: guns in schools would work Date: 12/28/2012 3:42 PM
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But many are suggesting that we shouldn't have someone on-site. An armed guard might have limited the number of deaths to far less than 20.



That didn't prevent mass murder at columbine, it would require multiple heavily armed police on site, and that's not feasible. I'm sure this will become a response at many schools throughout the nation.

When I was in High School (long ago) we had a security guard in the parking lot. There were multiple ways you could access the school. One year a group of kids even propped a door open and in the middle of the night put a bunch of hay and a cow in one of the teachers rooms as a joke. If a bunch of kids could get a cow and eighty pounds of hay in the school, imagine what kind of guns and ammo you could prearrange in a school. These shooters have one thing in common, they do a lot of planning.

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Author: franchot Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849293 of 1956887
Subject: Re: Michael Moore: guns in schools would work Date: 12/28/2012 4:49 PM
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One year a group of kids even propped a door open and in the middle of the night put a bunch of hay and a cow in one of the teachers rooms as a joke.

Good grief. What happened to the cow? Dunno Rightime, aside from the debate about guns, what do you reckon has led to the current sorry state of affairs? Has society become more violent? Obviously one's experience of this is dependent upon location and socio/economic status. What would you suggest to tackle this issue?

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Author: ramsfanray Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849345 of 1956887
Subject: Re: Michael Moore: guns in schools would work Date: 12/28/2012 8:41 PM
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These shooters have one thing in common, they do a lot of planning.

Maybe it's time the rest of us start doing some of our own. Teenagers can only prop a door open and have it remain open for hours if the adults on campus let it happen.

Had the door been wired to an alarm it would not have sat open for hours. Had someone been making regular checks on all the doors, it would not have been open for hours. If cameras were installed at each door, and someone was dilligently watching the cameras, it would not have been open for hours.

It's impossible to make our schools 100% safe, but we can do a lot to make them safer than they currently are.

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Author: Rightime Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849675 of 1956887
Subject: Re: Michael Moore: guns in schools would work Date: 12/30/2012 1:59 PM
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Maybe it's time the rest of us start doing some of our own. Teenagers can only prop a door open and have it remain open for hours if the adults on campus let it happen...

It's impossible to make our schools 100% safe, but we can do a lot to make them safer than they currently are.


A Camera Surveillance System requires someone is watching, at least watching the cameras 10 or 12 hours a day. Most schools have surveillance cameras that can be reviewed to see (after the fact) who might be responsible for illegal activity or mischief etc. In terms of preventing a determined attack, that requires a number of armed, trained guards.
I think there's been several posts that have presented the feasibility of arming public schools with guards, and as I blithely pointed out to one poster, hiring a half-a-million armed guards for public school shooters is not the answer. Armed guards walking around schools with semi-automatic weapons and body armor is not the right message, or response, but that would be the only way to completely prevent a sicko shooter like Virginia Tech OR Sandy Hook.

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Author: eatenbybears Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849685 of 1956887
Subject: Re: Michael Moore: guns in schools would work Date: 12/30/2012 2:37 PM
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Armed guards walking around schools with semi-automatic weapons and body armor is not the right message, or response, but that would be the only way to completely prevent a sicko shooter like Virginia Tech OR Sandy Hook.

And the reality is, if the person wants to go in and kill, he will find a way to go in and kill ..... armed guards walking around schools or not.

As they say in the Marines ... a sniper rifle is the next best thing to being there

Bears

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Author: ramsfanray Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849717 of 1956887
Subject: Re: Michael Moore: guns in schools would work Date: 12/30/2012 4:56 PM
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A Camera Surveillance System requires someone is watching, at least watching the cameras 10 or 12 hours a day.

I beleive that's what I was trying to say.

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Author: Rightime Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849778 of 1956887
Subject: Re: Michael Moore: guns in schools would work Date: 12/30/2012 8:23 PM
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A Camera Surveillance System requires someone is watching, at least watching the cameras 10 or 12 hours a day.
_______________________________________

I beleive that's what I was trying to say.



That's understandable, and it has practicalities. However, it still requires an immediate response to be effective in completely stoping someone like the sicko in the most recent school shooting, right?

You're suggesting an armed trained guard watching a Surveillance System, and another trained Surveillance System expert to watch during off hours, right?

Average pay of a police officer is $40k a year, but let's low-ball the salary at say $30k a year. On top of that there's healthcare benefits, pension Or at least a 401k matching, payroll taxes SSDI etc... so you're actually talking about $42K a year. Adding up the costs to the public school system across the nation: (I have trouble counting all the zeros here but) ~ Eight Billion Dollars to run an effective Camera Surveillance System with armed trained professionals.

If I was to ask the average american to cough up enough in votes to approve another eight billion in appropriations to raise teacher pay to attract more science and math teachers it would cause endless name-calling, liberal suck-up, teacher's get wwaaayyyyy too much, but if it's to protect gun rights, well.... that's a different matter.

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Author: ramsfanray Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849779 of 1956887
Subject: Re: Michael Moore: guns in schools would work Date: 12/30/2012 8:28 PM
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Well, I'm often called a liberal, so I'm willing to spend the money to protect school children.

I also would not object to increasing teacher salaries. Especially, if we are going to start asking them to carry guns and face down armed nutjobs.

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Author: Rightime Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849782 of 1956887
Subject: Re: Michael Moore: guns in schools would work Date: 12/30/2012 8:55 PM
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a sniper rifle is the next best thing to being there

Bears


If I remember correctly, it's already happened.

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Author: Rightime Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1849783 of 1956887
Subject: Re: Michael Moore: guns in schools would work Date: 12/30/2012 8:57 PM
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Well, I'm often called a liberal, so I'm willing to spend the money to protect school children.

I also would not object to increasing teacher salaries. Especially, if we are going to start asking them to carry guns and face down armed nutjobs.




Well, I often read your replies here, usually reasonable. Nothing Pinko anyway.

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