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Author: SpeedBump13 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 1955700  
Subject: Military's Deadliest Sniper gunned down Date: 2/3/2013 10:35 AM
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He should have had a gun, right? This is more evidence that more guns don't increase safety, but increase danger. http://www.star-telegram.com/2013/02/02/4596024/militarys-de...

The incident sadly in yet another illustration of "Myth #4: More good guys with guns can stop rampaging bad guys," "Myth #6: Carrying a gun for self-defense makes you safer," and "Myth #10: We don't need more gun laws—we just need to enforce the ones we have."
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/01/pro-gun-myths-fa...
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Author: HMALETTER Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1857337 of 1955700
Subject: Re: Military's Deadliest Sniper gunned down Date: 2/3/2013 11:17 AM
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You've really got to have a severe mental block to arrive at those conclusions after reading the story. The story had absolutely nothing to do with gun laws or safety.

"WFAA/Channel 8 quoted unnamed sources as saying that Kyle, who lived in Midlothian, and a neighbor, Chad Littlefield, 35, had taken Routh on an outing to help him deal with post-traumatic stress disorder. Routh turned on the men and shot them in the back, the report said.

The sheriff said he could not confirm how the victims were shot.

Read more here: http://www.star-telegram.com/2013/02/02/4596024/militarys-de...

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Author: sano Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1857339 of 1955700
Subject: Re: Military's Deadliest Sniper gunned down Date: 2/3/2013 11:27 AM
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Damn. That sucks.

Hell of a rifleman, he was. "I can stand before God with a clear conscience about doing my job," he said.

I never even considered that someone would go berzerk at a shooting range. I suppose everything is just a matter of time.

2.5 hrs between the shooting and the 911 call???? Weird.

Attractive shooting facility. Nice stands! Kinda pricey.
Ten stations, 100 shots. Approx. 90 minutes in duration. •Cost: $62 per person / per round + sales tax + 21% service charge + ammunition (Four boxes of shells at $9 per box)
http://www.roughcreek.com/shooting-sports/


What most worriesme to me at ranges is 'the newbie' who clearly hasn't taken a safety course and is overwhelmed by the whole thing; forgets to keep the gun pointed at the ground... flails around pointing allll over....
Or loads, can't fire it for whatever reason, bird flys by, they turn around, looking to the friend or rangemaster for a clue.... pointing weapon at all the people, including the range master.... finger on the trigger... saw one chick who was so thrilled she shrieked and twirled a pirhouette after firing. Nobody even had time to think about taking cover. .... now that's nerve-wracking.

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Author: sano Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1857350 of 1955700
Subject: Re: Military's Deadliest Sniper gunned down Date: 2/3/2013 12:09 PM
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You've really got to have a severe mental block to arrive at those conclusions after reading the story. The story had absolutely nothing to do with gun laws or safety.

It will involve those issues for the obvious reason that 1) Chris Kyle was an outspoken NRA supporter who opposed any increase in gun regulations, and 2) he armed a person who is reportedly suffering from a mental condition (PTSD), and is irresponsible ("Routh was cited in early January 2012 on driving while intoxicated with an open container").

Maybe shooting isn't always appropriate therapy?

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Author: Goofyhoofy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1857356 of 1955700
Subject: Re: Military's Deadliest Sniper gunned down Date: 2/3/2013 12:28 PM
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The story had absolutely nothing to do with gun laws or safety.

I dunno, I'm thinking putting a gun in the hands of someone with a history of mental problems might have *something* to do with "gun safety." You might even stretch the boundaries of sanity just a little to project the idea that mentally ill people ought not own guns. Crazy idea, I know.

“Chad and Chris had taken a veteran out to shoot to try to help him,” Mr. Cox said. “And they were killed.”

On Sunday, the police identified the shooter as Eddie Ray Routh, a 25-year-old veteran with a history of mental illness who had served in both Iraq and Afghanistan.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/04/us/chris-kyle-american-sni...

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Author: MetroChick Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1857391 of 1955700
Subject: Re: Military's Deadliest Sniper gunned down Date: 2/3/2013 2:08 PM
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Chad Littlefield - took a veteran out shooting who was struggling with PTSD to try to assist him, try to help him, try to, you know, give him a helping hand and he turned the gun on both of them, killing them


IMO it's more evidence lack of mental healthcare accessibility and acceptance doesn't increase safety - especially for our vets. Who's the "bad guy" in this incident - the ill vet suffering from PTSD, or our society and military that doesn't provide adaquate access to mental health and our military that basically punishes those who seek it?

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Author: sano Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1857412 of 1955700
Subject: Re: Military's Deadliest Sniper gunned down Date: 2/3/2013 3:20 PM
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IMO it's more evidence lack of mental healthcare accessibility and acceptance doesn't increase safety - especially for our vets. Who's the "bad guy" in this incident - the ill vet suffering from PTSD, or our society and military that doesn't provide adaquate access to mental health and our military that basically punishes those who seek it?

I was thinking along those same lines as I was basting the ribs this morning. (Loin backs for 50. Go 49'rs )

Though his intentions were good, perhaps firearm aren't always the best therapy for PTSD.

Maybe, as you pointed out, we need to change the way we handle the psychological needs of our vets (and civilians) in a country with readily available and easily accessible firearms .

Elsewhere on the interweb someone made the "Live by the sword, die by the sword" observation. Kyle's post-military preoccupation with guns turned south on him.

Brings to mind the YouTube gun nut who got shot down at his own gun bench recently. ...", it’s somewhat ironic that Keith Ratliff was killed by a gun at his place of business - his weapons and testing facility.

Some radical gun control advocates would call it poetic justice."


Read more here: http://voices.kansascity.com/entries/guns-didnt-protect-murd...

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Author: SpeedBump13 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1857424 of 1955700
Subject: Re: Military's Deadliest Sniper gunned down Date: 2/3/2013 3:41 PM
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You've really got to have a severe mental block to arrive at those conclusions after reading the story. The story had absolutely nothing to do with gun laws or safety.

Oh no. A well-placed marshmellow would have been just as deadly. I regret the error of my ways.

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Author: sano Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1857427 of 1955700
Subject: Re: Military's Deadliest Sniper gunned down Date: 2/3/2013 3:46 PM
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Who's the "bad guy" in this incident - the ill vet suffering from PTSD

Something doesn't feel right. It's possible that there's a story behind this.

I heard a guy spitballin' on a story that perhaps there was some relationship gone sour between the 2 of them that may or may not be revealed, and that Kyles friend was an unfortunate victim of the meeting.

Further, the deceased was involved in litigation with Jesse Ventura over an incident that may or may not have occurred as Kyle claimed. Kyle claims he punched out Jesse in a bar. Ventura is sueing. Court date was set for Aug 1.

Stranger things have happened for stranger reasons.

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Author: Beridian Big red star, 1000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1857510 of 1955700
Subject: Re: Military's Deadliest Sniper gunned down Date: 2/4/2013 8:06 AM
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IMO it's more evidence lack of mental healthcare accessibility and acceptance doesn't increase safety - especially for our vets. Who's the "bad guy" in this incident - the ill vet suffering from PTSD, or our society and military that doesn't provide adaquate access to mental health and our military that basically punishes those who seek it?


I agree that we need to do a far better job dealing with mental illness, particularly for veterans. I must however point out a couple of things:

(1) The constitutional rights issue is very difficult for mandating mental health treatment, it eclipses the second amendment issue in my opinion. Are we to have a society where a neighbor, coworker, or jilted lover becomes agitated and calls authorities to report that someone is acting unstable? What then? Shall we have the police pick them up, search their house for weapons, and have them involuntarily committed for observation? People who beat the drum of liberty and freedom really need to think this issue through.

(2) Mental health care is extremely expensive and only marginally effective. Most mental health problems are not curable, they are only treatable. The treatment usually involves very expensive medications that lose their effectiveness over time. Psychiatrists can prescribe medications, but commonly the mentally ill do not have the means to pay for them or the responsibility to take them regularly. Involuntarily incarcerating a mentally ill person costs 2 to 3 times what it costs to incarcerate a prison inmate, and psychiatric hospitals are few and over crowded. This explains why prisons are the new mental health care hospitals. The mentally ill commonly do not have health care insurance, and in the rare situations when they do, coverage for mental health treatment is cursory at best.

I would love nothing more than to see the United States get serious about mental health care, but the reality is that I do not think that we have the stomach for it.

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Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1857512 of 1955700
Subject: Re: Military's Deadliest Sniper gunned down Date: 2/4/2013 8:19 AM
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Military's Deadliest Sniper gunned down
=======================================

Ergo, we need more gun control.

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Author: CairnDad Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1857521 of 1955700
Subject: Re: Military's Deadliest Sniper gunned down Date: 2/4/2013 9:31 AM
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He should have had a gun, right? This is more evidence that more guns don't increase safety, but increase danger. http://www.star-telegram.com/2013/02/02/4596024/militarys-de......

The incident sadly in yet another illustration of "Myth #4: More good guys with guns can stop rampaging bad guys," "Myth #6: Carrying a gun for self-defense makes you safer," and "Myth #10: We don't need more gun laws—we just need to enforce the ones we have."
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/01/pro-gun-myths-fa......


This is more evidence that no one should have a gun. Time to disarm the police and military.

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Author: kenm47 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 1857523 of 1955700
Subject: Re: Military's Deadliest Sniper gunned down Date: 2/4/2013 9:34 AM
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"This is more evidence that no one should have a gun. Time to disarm the police and military."

I think it's more proof that no one is ever "safe." There are no guarantees in life.

Ken

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