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Author: Prestone Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 465141  
Subject: Milligram46's lies about Toyota Date: 11/8/2008 5:24 AM
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I am sure the title of this post will get your ire up, but it obviously does not take much anyways when it comes to Toyota. You post nearly daily about all the miscommunication and perception of Toyota, yet time after time your information is completely wrong ... or to give you the benifit of the doubt, slanted by your obvious hatred for the company.

I have no idea where your paycheck is derived from, but I assume it is must somehow be tied to GM surviving and you see Toyota as an obvious threat to GM surviving.

A little disclosure here on my part. I work for Toyota. I am a union associate, but not in manufacturing. My union and job classification are equivalent to what the UAW provides for the big 3. I have negotioted contracts as a shop steward with my union, just to show you that I am not blindly following every word that corporate puts out.

I have done a lot of research to compare wage and benefit information to compare/contrast Toyotas union and non-union positions as they relate to what is performed by the UAW for the big 3.

Based on the link to this poll I ran on this board earlier in the year, I am the only person on this board who can offer the unique perspective to some of your unsubstantiated claims.
http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=26322042&sort=pos...

Throughout my time of employment with Toyota I have traveled the country to 11 different facilities to help provide and receive training within the company. I have seen the best of TPS in action.

1) If GM goes bankrupt you better believe that their suppliers collapse right around them wtihin 30 days. The same suppliers that support Ford, Chrysler and wait for it, Honda and Toyota. With their collapse Ford and Chrysler go right down with them, Toyota can't get parts, Honda can't get parts, Mazda, Volvo, Saab get sucked right down with them, and VW is hurt globally.

Utterly ridiculous. 1st, have you heard of NUMMI? Second, do you have any idea which types of parts for Toyotas are produced in the US and which are produced in Japan? Half of Toyotas sales are in Japan. Where do you think all the parts for the 6 million cars built and sold in Japan are produced?

2) The warranty and parts network arguments you put forth have already been torn apart by others, so I will bypass the low hanging fruit.

3)And everyone seems to have already forgotten that Toyota laid off 4,500 back in August, and kept them on the payroll with full pay and benefits.

http://www.usnews.com/blogs/the-inside-job/2008/8/26/toyota-......

I haven't found any story to indicate what has gone on with those idled workers, which in theory should be going back to work this week or next week - but to build what? More fullsize trucks, SUVs that no one wants to buy?


A - The article is very misleading. The Indiana plant has kept employees working as they have been retooling the entire facility over from producing Sequoia/Tundra to begin producing the Prius. Not a small undertaking.

B - The Texas employees have maintained employment and are doing a lot of clean-up/5-S and Kaizen activity to better gain efficiencies that GM could only dream of recreating.

C - The facilities were stopped production because Tundra had 5 Months of supply in the pipeline and Sequoia 7. This, as always, is a much lower amount of vehicles in the pipeline than GM runs on many vehicles. Obviously with one facility now used for production rather than two there will be many less produced. Toyota announced that the Texas facility will also use these vehicles to meet demand in the Western Hemisphere, whereas before it was only for the U.S.

D - The article you linked states that Toyota is losing $1 billion in revenue on this temporary halt in production. This is obviously not true, as they are just reducing the number of units in the pipeline and will be able to react better with that lower number in the pipeline.

So, you said you could not find an article to explain it to you, consider it done. Also, your use of the words lay-off is a flat out lie.

4 - Oh, and who just warned their profits will be the worst in 13 years?

Seriously, read what you wrote. When was the last time the word profits was used in the same sentence as GM.

Yes, you are right, Toyota warned profits would come in at only $5.5 billion for this year. How many decades would have have to combine GM's numers to meet this horrific this significantly reduced PROFIT projection of Toyota?

5 - There is only one difference between GM and Toyota right now. Toyota has a mountain of cash to survive longer than General Motors.

The difference between Toyota and the big three is about so much more than just the mountain of cash. How did Toyota get where they are? It was and still is the people and the process. Something that the big three lost site of 20 years ago. I give tours of our facility to outside company upper level managers and have talked with those from FORD and GM and they are amazed at what is done inside our walls. If only I could put the looks on their faces into words when they see what can actually be achieved when the workforce is respected and a tried and true production system is used. The corporate culture from the top to the bottom does not exist within the big three to be competitive with Toyota.

6) They can't build Priuses faster until the end of 2010, because they didn't anticipate the change in demand, but they have factories sitting idle in Texas and Indiana

Lie, lie and lie. The Prius has been built in Japan until now. Do you know what is going on with the production of Prius in Japan for shipment to U.S. in the meantime. No, you dont, just spreading misinformation. I already told you about Texas and Indiana. You also said you didnt know what was going on with the workers before, yet now all of a sudden you say they are sitting idle. You dont know.

7 - Ya, I'm fired up, people need to wake up to the reality of the situation and Toyota is not our saviours.

You may not think Toyota is the savior of the auto industry, but GMs chairman, Rick Wagoner, does.

Dow Jones reported on 10/28 that GM ... is expected to ask for help from Toyota Motor in turning around its business, Kyodo News reported, citing sources familiar with the plan. GM Chairman Rick Wagoner is considering visiting Japan soon and meeting with Toyota's leadership to discuss the plan, the sources said. Toyota is expected to consider quick fixes for the cash-strapped GM, including buying up its assets, to help it secure sufficient business funding. The executives of the world's two biggest automakers may also discuss expanded business partnerships, including Toyota making fuel efficient compact cars for GM on an original equipment manufacturing basis and providing hybrid-car technologies to the U.S. carmaker, the sources said.

So, the Chairman of GM thinks so much of Toyota that he plans to go try to learn from Toyota and wants to discuss Toyota producing for GM. Hmmm, kinda blows a hole in that theory of yours.

8 - Toyota has laid off thousands of "contract workers" here in the states, and has 4,500 workers sitting idle since August with full pay and benefits. Oh ya, just like Detroit workers.

Big, fat, stinky, ugly mistruth there. Which "contract workers" were laid off. The article you linked talked about the lay off of temporary contract workers in Japan. Since you are obviously ignorant of how labor works in Japan, let me tell you that over half of Toyotas employees in Japan are temporary workers. It is just how it works in Japan, much different than in the U.S.

The last time I researched it there were about 70,000 temporary contract employees working for Toyota in Japan. It ebbs and flows. The number of "contract workers" in Japan affected was 3000. This is actually not even an uncommon practice in this type of work force in Japan, it just happened to make the news this time.

You are being reactionary and reading in what you want when in reality you are ignorant of the Japanese labor practices ... not to mention that you tried to apply what happened in Japan as happening in the U.S.

9) - Now lets say I'm Toyota. I want to build a factory in the United States to build my products because it is cheaper than building them in Japan. So I put things out for bid.

Now if I build those new cars or trucks in Michigan, or Indiana, or Ohio, or other Midwest states than I'm competing against union wages and beneifts in my hiring process and Lord knows I don't want to pay people $35 an hour to put cars together.

So lets say I'm the governor of Mississippi, and I want to put people to work. Well first I'm a right to work state so no pesky union or hire/fire issues. But I'll subsidize that Toyota factory to come to my state, so I get 3,000 jobs in Bumblescum, but those jobs might pay $17 an hour, and you can be fired at will ... Now if we feel that auto workers in cars that are more complex than they ever were only deserve 1/2 of what they were paid, and no pension, and crappy medical benefits, and they can be fired at will


OUTRIGHT BALDFACED LIE

Again, I am a union worker, shop steward who negotiated side by side with my business rep and local union president across the table from Toyota for wages and benefits. I am well versed on this. You obviously have no idea how bad the UAW members sold out all the new hires in the UAW contracts 16 months ago. All new hires in the UAW are paid 50% of what workers were paid before those contracts were ratified. For the new workers, benefits and pensions are greatly reduced.

Now I guarantee you, through my sweat and figurative blood of my negotiotions with the company that every speculative and ignorant comment you made about the 1/2 pay, no pension and crappy medical benefits is a complete misrepresentation of what Toyota is offering to manufacturing and production associates.


10 - Well since you asked - the governors who asked for federal assistance last week in a joint letter include states with Toyota production facilities in them.

Just sayin'


A higher percentage of Toyotas sold in America are built in the U.S. than any other auto manufacturer (except Saturn I believe). So the government asked for federal assistance that includes states that have Toyota production facilities. If the government does provide assistance to states, should it not offer aid to states that have Toyota production facilites? Um, lets see, oh, you have a Toyota production facility somewhere in your state so you cant be considered. Sorry, Texas, Mississippi, Indiana, Kentucky, California and the other 2 dozen states ... do you hear yourself?

73 - God - I hate, HATE, HATE, how utterly uninformed people are on the auto industry and base their decision on nothing but myth and legend.

Pot calling the kettle black, I suppose. Try to take a step back and take an objective look. You are obviously way too emotionally invested in this.

You probably will not believe that I am actually a union worker and that I am just some corporate shill regurgitating the corporate spew. Beleive what you want ... you obviously already take that approach when you read news stories. I dont expect objectivity.

Prestone
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