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Author: spl241 Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 59653  
Subject: Mitt--A Whiff of Panic in the Air? Date: 8/12/2012 2:55 PM
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Steve Kornacki, Salon writer and co-host of MSNBC's new PM program, "The Cycle," says that if this summer had gone the way Mitt hoped it would, he'd never be up there now on podiums with Paul Ryan, beaming broadly with that patented plastic smile of his.

His strategy has been single-minded, with no interest in articulating specific policy proposals and generally shying away from saying or doing anything that anyone might find at all unsettling (Wow, whatta' FAIL, that!) More than any other candidate in recent history, he has strained to be generic, someone positioned to serve as a protest vehicle for voters avowing to vote Obama out.

But this "strategy" isn't working, and a tinge of panic is afoot. A chunk of swing voters finally seem willing to consider the economy in context--specifically, the context of what Obama inherited and from whom he inherited it. Polls continue to show that Americans hold Bush more responsible for today’s conditions than Obama. The memory of the -08 meltdown and the terrifying free fall that was underway as Obama was sworn in has earned the president at least some long-overdue benefit of the doubt.

Other factors are evoking fear, too. First, there was his gaffe-laden overseas tour that was supposed to make us comfortable with the idea of him representing the U.S. on the world stage. Instead, it produced day after day of media crucifixion and strong disapprobation of foreign leaders. Adding to the GOP angst are hints last week that Obama is widening his lead--3 national polls put him ahead by 7, 7 and 9 points. Next, there's that incessant demand, even from some Repubs, that we get a gander at the Mystery Returns.

Romney's rising unpopularity numbers stirred concern. Many in the GOP called for a shake-up, to use the V.P. pick to make a bold statement.
And by choosing Ryan, Romney heeded those calls. Many things can be said about Ryan, but he is not the running mate that a "generic" prez candidate would tap. If the race was a dead heat or if Romney was ahead, you can bet he’d go with Portman, Pawlenty, or some other shade of Plain Vanilla for the #2 slot.

....the "generic strategy" isn’t working, or at least doesn’t seem to be. The Ryan pick represents a new approach: Make the campaign about a Big Idea--the radical re-imagining of tax policy and spending priorities that Ryan has proposed in the name of deficit reduction [.....] For the rest of the campaign, he and Ryan will be answering for the social safety net cuts, Medicare voucher-ization and steep tax cuts for the wealthy.

When your strategy is risky, and you KNOW it's risky, yes: there's going to be some panic out there.

http://www.salon.com/2012/08/11/the_smell_of_panic/
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Author: intercst Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 44586 of 59653
Subject: Re: Mitt--A Whiff of Panic in the Air? Date: 8/12/2012 3:39 PM
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For the rest of the campaign, he and Ryan will be answering for the social safety net cuts, Medicare voucher-ization and steep tax cuts for the wealthy.

This is the ultimate math test for middle-class Tea-Baggers. Do they really want to give wealthy Sons of Privilege like Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan big tax reductions funded by cuts in their Medicare?

I guess we'll see who rode the short bus to school.

intercst

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Author: salaryguru Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 44587 of 59653
Subject: Re: Mitt--A Whiff of Panic in the Air? Date: 8/12/2012 3:47 PM
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Do they really want to give wealthy Sons of Privilege like Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan big tax reductions funded by cuts in their Medicare?

If you think about our REHP wingnut trolls, you will probably have to conclude that they will, in fact, favor doing exactly this as long as their side wins. I think that most of the angry white men that make up the core of the tea-baggers simply hate liberals or Democrats or Obama or all of the above so much, that they think that defeating or embarrassing or insulting them is all that matters.

The real question isn't whether some people are this angry, ill-informed, and one-dimensional but how many people can be convinced to follow through the use of political advertising with infinite money and the steady drumbeat of the right wing echo chamber.

So far, it's looking more and more like big losses for the Republicans in November. But never underestimate the fickleness of the American voter.

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Author: ravvt Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 44588 of 59653
Subject: Re: Mitt--A Whiff of Panic in the Air? Date: 8/12/2012 4:14 PM
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Do they really want to give wealthy Sons of Privilege like Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan big tax reductions funded by cuts in their Medicare?

... Urkel and the congressional donkeys have already cut Medicare by $500 Billion to provide some of the cash needed to start up a new entitlement program ... why aren't you complaining about the cut that the Democrats have already delivered instead of a future cut in Medicare that is far from a sure thing?

BTW, can you provide a link to Urkel's plan to reform the entitlements ... Medicare is already $38Trillion. What is the Democrat plan to fix that problem?

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Author: ariechert Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 44591 of 59653
Subject: Re: Mitt--A Whiff of Panic in the Air? Date: 8/12/2012 4:46 PM
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"If you think about our REHP wingnut trolls, you will probably have to conclude that they will, in fact, favor doing exactly this as long as their side wins. I think that most of the angry white men that make up the core of the tea-baggers simply hate liberals or Democrats or Obama or all of the above so much, that they think that defeating or embarrassing or insulting them is all that matters. The real question isn't whether some people are this angry, ill-informed, and one-dimensional but how many people can be convinced to follow through the use of political advertising with infinite money and the steady drumbeat of the right wing echo chamber. So far, it's looking more and more like big losses for the Republicans in November. But never underestimate the fickleness of the American voter." - salaryguru
--------------------------------


A large percentage of the people in the State of Tennessee who will vote Republican will do so because of Religious conviction. It will be decided on issues like abortion, gay-rights/marriage, etc. social issues instead of economic issues, even if it hurts them financially.

Tennessee's electoral votes will go to Romney/Ryan because they are conservative and appeal to the religious right. I am surrounded by religious fundamentalist. In fact I'd go so far to say that they would lock up gays and lesbians in concentration camps if they could - and justify it on the grounds that they are protecting their children from gay indoctrination. I'm not kidding about this. I've actually heard them say this. It is very scary.

Art

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Author: sykesix Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 44592 of 59653
Subject: Re: Mitt--A Whiff of Panic in the Air? Date: 8/12/2012 4:52 PM
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... Urkel and the congressional donkeys have already cut Medicare by $500 Billion to provide some of the cash needed to start up a new entitlement program ... why aren't you complaining about the cut that the Democrats have already delivered instead of a future cut in Medicare that is far from a sure thing?

Not quite. There was approximately that amount cut from waste in Medicare. The actual benefits remain the same. I realize Republican are vociferous supporters of government waste (for example, see ethanol thread), but c'mon. When your argument comes down in favor of government waste, you don't have much of an argument.

And by the way, Paul Ryan proposes to cut that exact same waste out of Medicare. For some reason if Obama does it, it is bad and it needs to be stopped. But if Paul Ryan does it, he's budget hawk.

BTW, can you provide a link to Urkel's plan to reform the entitlements ... Medicare is already $38Trillion.

Death panels.

Actually, there were quite a few sensible ideas in the ACA for controlling Medicare costs. But again, most of them relate to improving efficiency and reducing waste, and are therefore opposed by most Republicans.

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 44593 of 59653
Subject: Re: Mitt--A Whiff of Panic in the Air? Date: 8/12/2012 5:34 PM
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"Actually, there were quite a few sensible ideas in the ACA for controlling Medicare costs. But again, most of them relate to improving efficiency and reducing waste, and are therefore opposed by most Republicans. "

heh heh...

the one things the dems would never pass is tort reform. Without it, the lib dem trial lawyers, who contribute hundreds of millions to dems, can stiff the gov't and rate payers by hundreds of BILLIONS of dollars annually in doctors having to do 'everything' and 'every silly little test' to avoid being sued,...and still get sued when the outcome isn't what folks want. Hundreds of billions


Not a dime in tort reform...the dems block it time and time again.


You guys aren't serious.

And, of course, you are going to cut over 500 billion out of medicare as costs go up annually......until doctors don't even take medicare any longer.....squeeze the docs.

Obama is pushing grannie off the cliff. Biden is right behind pushing hard too. Pelosi is standing by, and smiling, as she learns finally what is in Obama Care.....watching Grannie shoved over the cliff..


t.

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Author: intercst Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 44594 of 59653
Subject: Re: Mitt--A Whiff of Panic in the Air? Date: 8/12/2012 5:38 PM
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ravvt asks,

. Urkel and the congressional donkeys have already cut Medicare by $500 Billion to provide some of the cash needed to start up a new entitlement program

The $500 Billion is for subsidies to health insurance companies in the Medicare Advantage program. Medicare Advantage costs 13% more than regular Medicare because of the higher overhead of for-profit insurers.

You can still buy a Medicare Advantage policy if you see merit in having some Wall Street A-hole manage your health plan, but you have to pay the full cost of the extra overhead yourself. It's no longer subsidized.

intercst

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Author: ravvt Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 44597 of 59653
Subject: Re: Mitt--A Whiff of Panic in the Air? Date: 8/12/2012 6:13 PM
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Not quite. There was approximately that amount cut from waste in Medicare. The actual benefits remain the same...

Nonsense.

I don't think you understand what is really built into the Obamacare legislation wrt Medicare. The bulk of the "savings" aka $500 - 700 Billion cut in the Medicare pgm over the first 10yrs of Obamacare is obtained thru payment cuts to doctors, nurses, & hospitals.

In Feb of this year, the congress passed special "Doc Fix" legislation that effectively freezes the payments to doctors at 2011 levels for Medicare services instead of the 27% reduction called for by Obamacare. This legislation only fixed the problem thru year end 2012. On Jan 1, 2013, unless new legislation is passed, doctors will receive a 30% pay cut for all Medicare services ... as defined by the Obamacare law ...

... any senior on Medicare should be concerned about whether their doctors will abandon all Medicare patients because the gov't is refusing to pay as many currently do for Medicaid patients ...

... or maybe Urkel will just write a new Imperial Directive that forces doctors into a forced labor situation where they are REQUIRED to accept all Medicare & Medicaid patients at whatever payment the federal gov't deems appropriate ... that sounds like a very Democrat solution.

... here is some reading material that shows how Obamacare is nowhere near the cost saving panacea you believe it to be:

http://www.cms.gov/Research-Statistics-Data-and-Systems/Rese...

(pay special attention to the "Implications of Payment Reductions" section on page 5. Here's the punchline to that section:

Accordingly, projections based on the permanent application of this new component of current law [Obamacare] are very likely to seriously understate actual Medicare costs in the long-range future.)

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Author: CountUpp Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 44598 of 59653
Subject: Re: Mitt--A Whiff of Panic in the Air? Date: 8/12/2012 6:19 PM
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... or maybe Urkel will just write a new Imperial Directive that forces doctors into a forced labor situation where they are REQUIRED to accept all Medicare & Medicaid patients at whatever payment the federal gov't deems appropriate ... that sounds like a very Democrat solution.

Sounds even more like Ravvt hallucinations. That kind of drivel may sell well at RWCJ, but not here.

Count Upp

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Author: sykesix Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 44599 of 59653
Subject: Re: Mitt--A Whiff of Panic in the Air? Date: 8/12/2012 6:33 PM
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And, of course, you are going to cut over 500 billion out of medicare as costs go up annually......until doctors don't even take medicare any longer.....squeeze the docs.

The $500 billion is over and above projected medical inflation costs.

I realize as a Republican you are stanch defender of government waste. I get that. But have you ever stopped to think that maybe, just maybe, cutting wasteful spending is a good thing to do?

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Author: Donna405 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 44620 of 59653
Subject: Re: Mitt--A Whiff of Panic in the Air? Date: 8/12/2012 11:43 PM
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As you know, Astroe and I live in SC. We are in the same political spectrum as TN.

We need some good vibes right now.

Donna

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Author: CountUpp Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 44622 of 59653
Subject: Re: Mitt--A Whiff of Panic in the Air? Date: 8/12/2012 11:47 PM
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As you know, Astroe and I live in SC. We are in the same political spectrum as TN.

We need some good vibes right now.

Donna


I suspect that no matter how you vote, your states will go GOP. This means you need to try to publicize the favorable aspects of the Dims, and the negative sides of the Repugs.

CU

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Author: Donna405 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 44623 of 59653
Subject: Re: Mitt--A Whiff of Panic in the Air? Date: 8/12/2012 11:56 PM
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Oh, yes, Countup. We are the DeMint state, remember. However, a number of my friends who have previously voted Repub, are now planning to pull the Dem lever this time. They are very concerned about their Medicare (we are all over 65), and are aghast that Romney chose Ryan. But, I don't think that will make much difference.

Donna (who remembers when our state was Dem)

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Author: ariechert Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 44626 of 59653
Subject: Re: Mitt--A Whiff of Panic in the Air? Date: 8/13/2012 12:38 AM
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"As you know, Astroe and I live in SC. We are in the same political spectrum as TN. We need some good vibes right now." - Donna

--------------------


I was thinking today that it is highly ironic that Tele, who is a hard core conservative and outspoken atheist, will more than likely vote Republican - but if his candidate is elected it will most likely be due to Evangelical and Fundamentalist Christian conservatives - the people that Tele quite often denigrates in some of his posts for being morons for believing in "gawd", the "bi-bull", and "X-tianity."

The people most aligned with Tele's political views are people that he has very little respect for? Ironic isn't it? Maybe the Creator of the Universe does have a sense of humor!

<grin!>


Art

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Author: Goofyhoofy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Favorite Fools Top Recommended Fools Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 44639 of 59653
Subject: Re: Mitt--A Whiff of Panic in the Air? Date: 8/13/2012 8:42 AM
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Tennessee's electoral votes will go to Romney/Ryan because they are conservative and appeal to the religious right. I am surrounded by religious fundamentalist. In fact I'd go so far to say that they would lock up gays and lesbians in concentration camps if they could - and justify it on the grounds that they are protecting their children from gay indoctrination. I'm not kidding about this. I've actually heard them say this. It is very scary.

Art is not kidding. I live in Tennessee, and it IS scary. And if it's bad here, I can scarcely imagine what it's like in South Carolina, Alabama, Mississippi.

OTOH, not all of Tennessee is so retrograde. Memphis leans Democratic, Nashville is more mixed (although still conservative) and I have a friend who teaches school in a small town who says "the kids" are mostly cool with gay and alternative. It's the parents who are freaky. Maybe, in another 4 generations, this too shall pass.

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