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Author: DeadheadFool Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 1656  
Subject: More on feeding 3rd world countries Date: 9/13/1999 12:47 PM
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But we also don't have an obligation to feed the children they choose to have without means of
their own to feed them. By sending food to them, we allow the children to live a little longer (barely
in most cases), and then they too have children. It's a repeating cycle that we are fueling.
Reproduction is natural and will happen among all mammals given a certain food supply.

Try looking closer here in the US at what I think is a related matter. Neglected and abused children
in this country are having babies everyday as sources of love. Not because they want to feed,
support, and love the babies, but because they crave the love they get FROM the babies. These
children are uneducated and have no concept of the ramifications of having kids. And guess what,
those new babies start the cycle all over. It's sad and horrible, but it's there and real right in this
country. It has nothing to do with the right to choose. These kids DID choose to have kids.

Reproduction in uneducated, un-nourished places is not the same choice as it is in the worlds we
live in. We have the means to make a choice. Third world families (women) do not have those
means. Now the irony I will also throw out here is that we (non-3rd world or whatever we are)
have created this mess by throwing food and money at the problem without the education and
resources to go along with the food.

So, the more food we supply, the more babies are conceived, the more food is needed, the more
food we supply, etc, etc. Please read Daniel Quinn about this subject. I'm not doing a very good
job explaining this. He does!

I hate the idea of babies starving! I hate the images on TV and in my imagination, but the reality is
that sending food alone is worthless and even detrimental.

<My Rant off>

Chris
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Problem one is that much of the food we so kindly donate (tongue firmly in cheek) never gets to the starving masses because their governments are so messed up. We, meaning those we intrust to send the food over, need to do a better job of food distribution and stop leaving it to inept governments.

No, I guess we don't have an obligation to help. We could sit back and say, "oh well, it's not our problem...we didn't tell them to have children!" That is were Mr. Swift's Proposal would be well adapted to fit in.

Your reference to America is interesting. Did you know that a recent study shows that crime is down? Did you know what they determined to be the cause of the decrease? Fewer Latinos and Blacks (their words not mine) having babies because they have higher abortion rates. So, I guess from that viewpoint you could just say, "great, we will encourage them to have more abortions and crime will continue to go down". Sickening, isn't it? So is the "logic" that says that if we stop feeding starving people, they will stop having babies, so there will be fewer people starving. Of course there won't be many if any of them left, but hay, its not our fault is it???

Frecs


Hi Frecs,

I thought it more appropriate to pull this thread off the health & nutrition board, as it is a social/ethical issue and not directly a health & nutrition issue.

Problem one is that much of the food we so kindly donate (tongue firmly in cheek) never gets to the starving masses because their governments are so messed up. We, meaning those we intrust to send the food over, need to do a better job of food distribution and stop leaving it to inept governments.


This is very true, and it goes hand in hand with my suggestion that we need to provide a solution to the problem, not just a shipment of food and money without a plan for implementation. See previous reply on H&N board.

Your reference to America is interesting. Did you know that a recent study shows that crime is down? Did you know what they determined to be the cause of the decrease? Fewer Latinos and Blacks (their words not mine) having babies because they have higher abortion rates. So, I guess from that viewpoint you could just say, "great, we will encourage them to have more abortions and crime will continue to go down". Sickening, isn't it? So is the "logic" that says that if we stop feeding starving people, they will stop having babies, so there will be fewer people starving. Of course there won't be many if any of them left, but hay, its not our fault is it???


My point with the reference to American un-educated inner city kids having babies, was not very well made - sorry. I was trying to point out that here in America (with the exception of extreme cases), there is food abundantly available. In most situations it's defintely not healthy food, but it's enough to sustain life. So then the uneducated and IMO unenlightened people even here in the US will have as many babies as they want without considering the consequences. Grandmothers, foster homes, group homes, and often eventually prisons end up supporting the children. I know this situation all too well from first hand experience as a CASA volunteer and through my girlfriend's experience as a foster care social worker.

You may be right that many Americans have the opinion you describe of letting them have more abortions to stop crime, but that is not my theory at all. Lack of equal access to money for material posessions is the cause of most violent crime in our culture, not lack of food. (IMO)

No, I guess we don't have an obligation to help. We could sit back and say, "oh well, it's not our problem...we didn't tell them to have children!" That is were Mr. Swift's Proposal would be well adapted to fit in.


I think we absolutely do have an obligation to help solve the problem. The problem is a threat to all of our survival on this planet. The solution is NOT to send food. The solution is to educate the people and approach the problem, not just the symptoms. You said it yourself, the food rarely gets to the children anyway.

Chris
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