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Author: dmenon Three stars, 500 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 63270  
Subject: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/23/2001 10:53 AM
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"First Knight". I was laughing so hard, and it wasn't at the funny parts. I decided to do everyone a service and leave.

-D
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Author: TMFLiquid Three stars, 500 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9562 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/23/2001 11:12 AM
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I have never walked out of a movie, but here is a list of almosts.

Showgirls - at the brutal rape scene
Wing Commander - i was laughing so hard and bothering people.
Kissed - Same reason, even though I think it was supposed to be funny.
Crash - I mean come on. That was a satire right?
Independence Day - ARGH!!!


Anyways, I have some sort of block that does not allow me to walk out of movies or to not finish watching them. I just feel weird like "might as well finish it up."


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Author: CaveGirl Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9563 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/23/2001 11:22 AM
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The Cell...

Jennifer Lopez... 'nuff said...

As soon as I got up and walked, about 6 other people followed suit... it was the funniest thing I ever saw...

Movies I should have walked out of would be:

The Ninth Gate
Battlefield Earth


If Starship Troopers hadn't become such a cult "B" movie I'd have added that to the woulda should coulda files, but I find it funny as heck and watch it regularly in our break room with friends... though when it first got released I was disgusted with the entire film...


CaveGirl


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Author: sonnycher Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9566 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/23/2001 11:37 AM
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Best Defense - Eddie Murphy

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Author: zeegirly Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9568 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/23/2001 11:53 AM
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I have never walked out of a movie,

Me too.

but here is a list of almosts.

For me it's a list of should haves:

North
Event Horizon
Seven (saw it on video - should have stopped it, but didn't)


Anyways, I have some sort of block that does not allow me to walk out of movies or to not finish watching them. I just feel weird like "might as well finish it up."

That's how I feel too. It's like I just have to finish it ... maybe it will redeem itself.

Lisa

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Author: Kazim Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9569 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/23/2001 12:09 PM
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"You've Got Mail." Such repulsively cute dialogue in the first ten minutes that my wife and I couldn't take it and slipped into another theater to see Prince of Egypt instead. Definitely the best choice.

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Author: Steve819 Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9570 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/23/2001 12:24 PM
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"The Tailor of Panama". I was with a friend and he loved it, so I was stuck. By the end I was checking my watch every 30 seconds, and I looking towards the exit with a look of desperation. My friend never noticed.

Steve

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Author: TJLea Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9571 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/23/2001 12:32 PM
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Highlander II (almost)

When I bought my ticket the lady said If I wanted a refund after it started I should see her. "What an odd thing to say" I thought as I walked in.

I sat through the whole thing because I just couldn't leave. It had all the entertainment value of a root canal.

TJ

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Author: CherryCAS Three stars, 500 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9572 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/23/2001 12:36 PM
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Eyes Wide Shut---on HBO.

Cherry

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Author: Kazim Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9573 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/23/2001 12:38 PM
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Eyes Wide Shut

Ugh, I'm with you there. I used to like Nicole Kidman until I had to sit through that performance where her idea of "acting" was to put a five second pause between every single word in her lines.

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Author: rerics Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9578 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/23/2001 1:05 PM
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I have never walked out on a movie, and part of the reason is that if a movie is particularly bad, I want to be able to experience the qualities of why it was bad, and to be able to understand it. It's hard to explain, but it's not a masochistic thing; it's sort of a cross between 1) wanting to revel completely in its badness so that I could tell other people about how bad it is, and 2) using it as an intellectual excercise and trying to analyze what elements made it so bad and what could have been done to make it less bad or even good.

I did see some people walk out of "American Beauty", though. It was kind of funny; about 15-20 minutes before they left was the scene where the ex-Marine neighbor is reading the paper and says something like "the whole country is going to hell in a hand-basket," and one of the soon-to-be-leaving group says out loud in the theatre, "you got that right!" They walked out soon after when Annette Bening and Kevin Spacey were arguing in their bedroom about their sex life, throwing out f-words and the like by the bucket-full.

rerics

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Author: UhuraY2K Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9579 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/23/2001 1:13 PM
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Eraserhead, and I dumped the guy who took me to see it on a date. It was the first movie I'd ever seen which nearly made me hurl. I also walked out on All Dogs Go To Heaven. I took Baby Sister to see it when she was eight or so, and it was so incredibly bad I decided to be a really bad influence and teach her how to sneak into another theater, in this case to see The Little Mermaid.

I almost walked out on Cool World and Batman and Robin. Those two sucked ice.

Uhura :o)

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Author: AngryCandy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9583 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/23/2001 2:05 PM
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Lone Star is the only movie I ever walked out on and I wouldn't have if the theater's air conditioning had been working and it wasn't 95 degrees. Of course, I also would have toughed out the heat if I didn't hate the movie.

-chris

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Author: AngryCandy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9584 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/23/2001 2:08 PM
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<<I did see some people walk out of "American Beauty", though.>>

I'm so jealous of these brave and brilliant people.

-chris

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Author: sonnycher Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9585 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/23/2001 2:13 PM
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I did see some people walk out of "American Beauty", though.

How did that thing win Oscars?

sonny

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Author: TMFPixpoo One star, 50 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9587 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/23/2001 2:51 PM
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Didn't walk out of the movie theater on, but stopped watching them at home...

Practical Magic
Get Carter
Wild Orchid – in fact I dislike everything Mickey Rourke has ever done

Kathleen


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Author: Ascalon Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9588 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/23/2001 2:55 PM
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How did that thing win Oscars?

By being outstandingly good.



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Author: AngryCandy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9590 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/23/2001 3:15 PM
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<<How did that thing win Oscars?>>

<By being outstandingly good.>

No, seriously, how?

-chris



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Author: motplus1 One star, 50 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9591 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/23/2001 3:24 PM
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The Year of the Dragon

plus stopped Event Horizon on the tape machine and never finished it -- too annoying.

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Author: Eliot1C Three stars, 500 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9592 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/23/2001 3:28 PM
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Walked out of in the theater:

America's Sweethearts
Weekend at Bernie's
Rising Sun (I think that was the name of it; I've blocked it out)

Stopped watching on VCR

Gladiator (eventually forced myself to watch the entire thing over a period of 2 weeks)


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Author: TMFLiquid Three stars, 500 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9595 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/23/2001 3:43 PM
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I thought "American Beauty" is one of the most important movies made in the last ten years. It is probably one of the few films that made me feel something real. And I don't mean the "excitement" we all feel when the underdog wins in a film, or the sadness we feel when the hero's wife dies. It made me feel deeply sad and effected. Is it a good thing or a bad thing? It is ours to judge that. It deserved to win against its competition. Although "The Insider" was a great film. But the here were the nominees.

Sixth Sense - good movie, not great
The Cider House Rules - good movie, not great
The Green Mile - The most sociably irresponsible movie I have seen.
The Insider - Great movie, maybe should have won.

That's my two cents. "American Beauty" was to me a great film. The acting was intense and wonderful. The direction was perfect.

again, only my two cents.

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Author: InvestorGrrl Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9596 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/23/2001 3:44 PM
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"Road to Wellville"
"Earth Girls are Easy"


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Author: TMFLiquid Three stars, 500 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9597 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/23/2001 3:48 PM
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and by sociably i meant socially. Sociably would be Michael Duncan and Tom Hanks using the wrong dinner plates.

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Author: AngryCandy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9598 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/23/2001 4:00 PM
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<<It made me feel deeply sad and effected.>>

It made me feel deeply sad too.

Not a day goes by I don't regret the two hours ripped from my life by that travesty.

Oh what could have been.

I could have taken a good dump.

I could have cut the grass.

I could have been in a horrible automobile accident.

I could have had a root canal.

So many lost opportunities.

*sigh*

-chris

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Author: trapcook Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9599 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/23/2001 4:11 PM
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Two movies I've walked out of:

The Thin Red Line: I probably wouldn't have, but there was some paint drying that I was interested in watching...

Sleepy Hollow: This I probably wouldn't have walked out on, but the theater started it forty minutes late, and then the film broke about halfway through. But if it had been worth it, I would have waited for them to fix it.

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Author: LuluB Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9602 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/23/2001 4:24 PM
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I have never walked out of any mpvie, but should have walked out on:

Raising Arizona
Ringmaster
Ronin - The actors were great, chase scenes were even better, but the ending SUCKED! I did not walk out because I had no idea the ending would ruin the whole movie. I love DeNiro!

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Author: CherryCAS Three stars, 500 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9604 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/23/2001 4:29 PM
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Lolita + the Graduate = American Beauty.

No wonder it sucked bad.

Cherry

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Author: AngryCandy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9605 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/23/2001 4:34 PM
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<<Lolita + the Graduate = American Beauty.

No wonder it sucked bad.>>

Jar of mayonnaise + three weeks in the hot sun = American Beauty


Clearly the most puzzling creative choice was the decision to use non-human characters. Had the film been billed as science-fiction, it might have been more understandable. However, watching "people" who, outside of Thora Birch's character, in no way, shape or form resemble human beings, not even by way of caricature, made the film challenging to watch.

Perhaps it was an interesting exercise in seeing what completely unmotivated random behavior would look and feel like. I guess it's an interesting "What if?" scenario. What if we had these automatons that just randomly cried, threw dishes, became gay or shot each other at random points in the film? If it works, you could create a whole new genre of film in which a script is replaced by a pair of dice. If you roll a one, it's time for your non-human robot creation to pick his nose and eat it. If you roll a six, maybe he strips his clothes off and goes shopping at K-Mart.

Use a 20-sided die instead of a typical six-sided one and you have all sorts of possibilities.

-chris

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Author: mglf Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9606 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/23/2001 4:38 PM
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"I have never walked out of any movie, but should have walked out on:

Raising Arizona
"

That's it, it's the P-Box for you....Of course, my ex-wife wanted to walk out on The Princess Bride on one of our early dates, and I still married her

mglf

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Author: dmenon Three stars, 500 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9607 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/23/2001 4:38 PM
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I don't know what my problem is, but "Earth Girls are Easy" is one of my Secret Shames (movies I don't like to admit I love.) Haven't seen it in a while, maybe the charm will have worn off?

-D

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Author: TMFLiquid Three stars, 500 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9608 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/23/2001 4:41 PM
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Why is it random behavior when there was a cause behind every event that took place? And at the heart it all centers around a man's decision to take back control of his life, and the results that happen all around him. Like a ripple effect. I wish people would not focus on the (creepy I know) fixation he has on Mena. That isn't the point of the movie. Or maybe that is just too hard to get through for some folks. (understandably)

I'm glad I found this board cause I honestly did not know there was such a strong hatred for this movie out there.

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Author: ritziefille One star, 50 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9615 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/23/2001 8:28 PM
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The Movie: My Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys
The Reason: {snore...........}
The Actor: Scott Glenn
The result: The manager said, "Do you want to just see a different movie? We have one just starting?."

The Movie We Did NOT Walk Out On: Silence of the Lambs
The Reason: EEK
One of the Actors: Scott Glenn!
The result: The only seats left were front row. We received free cowboy hats as part of the promotion to go see the first movie. We used the hats to shade our eyes during some of the scenes, peeking through the weave.

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Author: urlacher One star, 50 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9617 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/24/2001 1:08 AM
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Sixth Sense - good movie, not great

Sorry ... disagree. Sixth Sense had one of the best acting performances by Haley Joel Osment (who should've won the Oscar), and the direction was incredible. A movie that you have to see a second time just to appreciate the attention to detail is really a testimony to the excellent job of direction.

In my opinion, this was a movie that was underappreciated.

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Author: urlacher One star, 50 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9618 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/24/2001 1:12 AM
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Oh, and movies I walked out of:

Avengers (*very* disappointed in Sean Connery for accepting the role in this stinker)

Ronin

Batman & Robin (the one with Clooney as Batman ... just horrible!)



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Author: Ascalon Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9619 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/24/2001 1:41 AM
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Perhaps it was an interesting exercise in seeing what completely unmotivated random behavior would look and feel like.

Yes, how much better it would have been to make a film about one of those well-adjusted, well-balanced families that never argues, never cries and never ever winds each other up past breaking point between their mind-numbing, soul-destroying, creatively-vacuuous employment.

How super dooper believable and deep it would have been to show the typical perfect relationships that all of us have with our perfect neighbours who are never strange or weird or given to doing anything that upsets us in any way.

Now a title. How about The Brady Bunch or The Partridge Family or The Cosby Show or Fresh Prince of Bel Air or...? Oh, hang on...

Ascalon



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Author: Ascalon Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9620 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/24/2001 1:46 AM
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Why is it random behavior when there was a cause behind every event that took place? And at the heart it all centers around a man's decision to take back control of his life, and the results that happen all around him. Like a ripple effect.

And. Every. Main. Character. Developed. Through the film. All of them. No matter how much you hated them or were repelled by them, they all went through some kind of process of change during the film and those were superb performances to actually show that. That makes American Beauty unique. It's all about taking control of your life and your destiny in a world where people feel increasingly powerless.

Ascalon


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Author: ellul One star, 50 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9621 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/24/2001 2:24 AM
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It's all about taking control of your life and your destiny in a world where people feel increasingly powerless.

No, no one in this film takes control of their destiny, save maybe the cheating wife.

The daughter runs off with a drug dealer, but she's going to be dependent on him, sooner or later.

The dad attracts the young woman of his dreams, but ultimately denies her. Then, he's murdered despite being sinless.

I'm not surprised that this movie won best picture, I'm surprised smart people think it's a masterpiece. We're introduced to the main character while masterbaiting. Hasn't Philip Roth already done this?


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Author: TMFLiquid Three stars, 500 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9622 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/24/2001 9:03 AM
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Under appreciated? It was nominated for Best Picture. It was one of 5 movies released that year out of hundreds that was selected to be the best.

How is that under appreciated?


-a



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Author: TJLea Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9623 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/24/2001 9:06 AM
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Sixth Sense had one of the best acting performances by Haley Joel Osment (who should've won the Oscar), and the direction was incredible. A movie that you have to see a second time just to appreciate the attention to detail is really a testimony to the excellent job of direction.

Recently seen on a card...

Little Boy: I see dead people.

Man: No. Those are just people over forty

TJ

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Author: TMFLiquid Three stars, 500 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9624 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/24/2001 9:13 AM
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Taking the masturbation scene or the pursuit of his "dream girl" in a literal sense is going to make it appear crude and disgusting. I already stated that his obsession with Mena was creepy, but the movie is not just about those two things. If you find the movie unwatchable because of those things then fine. If you want to scratch past the surface and watch a story about an unhappy man who decides to do what makes him happy and suffers the eventual consequences then let's do it.

-a

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Author: TJLea Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9625 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/24/2001 9:34 AM
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If you want to scratch past the surface and watch a story about an unhappy man who decides to do what makes him happy and suffers the eventual consequences then let's do it.

Others have already piled on better than I could have but what the hell...

AB was not about choices and happiness. To me it was about baby boomer angst. It was an opportunity for BBs to say "Yeah we thought we'd all be living in Geodetic Domes, eating organically grown vegetables, while our children Sky and Freedom took their places among the council of wisdom, but we sold out as every other generation before us has. But AB reveals to us the truth. We always rebeled against everything and in our hearts we still do. We are a great generation and our selling out was only in the material world. Our spirits remain free."

Great acting. Technically clean. Quality directing. Story was pathetic. Characters were uninteresting stereotypes.

TJ



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Author: mglf Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9626 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/24/2001 9:51 AM
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My 2¢ on the great American Beauty debate:

The part which I found so interesting about the movie which suggests that all of the theories advanced about conventional suburban angst (a story which has been told post nausea) are at best incomplete, and at worst, wrong.

When the Spacey character finally get Mena Suvari's character within his grasp - but doesn't act - is the epiphany of the movie: At this point, he realizes that his "escape" over the past two hours of the movie was illusory and that despite her flaws, he loves his wife, and maybe despite its flaws that the conventional suburban life is who he is and that it is OK.

That's actually a rare message, and to me redeems the clichéd buildup. And while many of the characters were largely stereotypes, I think that they served usefully as foils to the Spacey character, who was not. The gleefulness and quirkyness of his rebellion - working at a fast food joint? - was unusual and refreshing.

What the closing murder by the psycho gay marine caricature, er, character says, by the way, is less clear to me.

mglf

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Author: TJLea Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9627 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/24/2001 9:58 AM
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What the closing murder by the psycho gay marine caricature, er, character says, by the way, is less clear to me

I thought it said military people are abusive closeted homosexuals willing to kill rather than have anyone know the truth about them.

Perhaps a little Kent State payback.

TJ

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Author: trapcook Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9628 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/24/2001 10:16 AM
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What the closing murder by the psycho gay marine caricature, er, character says, by the way, is less clear to me.

Hollywood 101: Conservatives, especially conservatives in the military, are evil. Come to think of it, all people in the military are conservatives, ergo, all people in the military are evil. And they're all just repressed (and repressing) homosexuals.

trap


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Author: kallaloostx One star, 50 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9629 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/24/2001 10:22 AM
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Short Cuts... Director - Robert Altman
I'm sorry - but it was HORRIBLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think I left two hours in...I was the only one to leave. I think the others in the theater were too embarrased to admit that they thought it was a buch of crap!



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Author: kallaloostx One star, 50 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9630 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/24/2001 10:26 AM
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mglf wrote:
What the closing murder by the psycho gay marine caricature, er, character says, by the way, is less clear to me.

To me it was simply his reaction to being a tortured soul. The years of abuse he inflicted on his family...the denial of his sexuality due to the pressure of being a staunch marine...all of that caught up to him...and BLAM!

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Author: urlacher One star, 50 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9639 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/24/2001 12:05 PM
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Under appreciated? It was nominated for Best Picture. It was one of 5 movies released that year out of hundreds that was selected to be the best.

Agreed, but American Beauty was the talk of the town that year. I meant in comparison to that movie (which was good, but I thought fell very close into the overrated category).

Heck, speaking of Oscar nominations, it got 6 of them, and if I remember correctly, didn't win anything. This should have gotten at *least* the Best Picture, Best Actor (in Haley Joel Osment) and Best Director.

That's what I meant by underappreciated.

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Author: TJLea Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9640 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/24/2001 12:11 PM
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Heck, speaking of Oscar nominations, it got 6 of them, and if I remember correctly, didn't win anything. This should have gotten at *least* the Best Picture, Best Actor (in Haley Joel Osment) and Best Director.

Having heard there was some sort of surprise ending, I managed to break the code about a third of the way through. As such I thought it was interesting. However, absent the big payoff, I wasn't "blown away.

TJ

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Author: Scorn6 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9642 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/24/2001 2:21 PM
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I've only walked out on one movie...The Dead. There were some people sitting around a table...for like 1/2 hour. Nothing had happened yet, and nothing seemed about to happen, so I bailed.

6

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Author: mglf Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9643 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/24/2001 2:26 PM
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The only movie I've ever walked on was The Attack of the Killer Tomatoes. It was marketed as being so bad it was funny, maybe a camp cult classic like Plan IX from Outer Space.

Nope.

It just sucked hard and long, maybe even past so bad it was funny to the next level of so bad the funny side of it being that bad wasn't funny.

mglf

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Author: sonnycher Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9644 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/24/2001 2:29 PM
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It just sucked hard and long, maybe even past so bad it was funny to the next level of so bad the funny side of it being that bad wasn't funny.

mglf


You lost me after the first bad/funny combination

sonny - never saw the movie

P.S. - I thought American Beauty was terrible

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Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/24/2001 2:31 PM
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I wish people would not focus on the (creepy I know) fixation he has on Mena. That isn't the point of the movie

I disagree. (And I didn't hate the movie.) I think there's a very strong sex-as-life-force theme in it. Kevin's sex life went to siht when he stopped being involved in his own life, and the sexy young Mena is integral to his desire to start 'living' again. The suppressed desires of the neighbor dad has had a huge effect on his family. The scene where Kevin gets busted beating off in bed is a great scene.

6

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Author: Scorn6 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9647 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/24/2001 2:43 PM
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The dad attracts the young woman of his dreams, but ultimately denies her. Then, he's murdered despite being sinless.

By denying her physically, he accepts her emotionally, which is what both of them are really after. Duh. The relationship between sex and love is all over this movie.

My theory on the neighbor is that he can't love his son because he wants to have sex with him. He goes after Kevin as kind of an attempt at a proxy fcuk, because he thinks Kevin and his son are having sex. I think that's why he gets mad enough at the rejection to kill Kevin.

6

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Author: TMFPokey Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9649 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/24/2001 3:46 PM
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Eyes Wide Shut---on HBO.

Ditto. Tried to sit through that piece of garbage twice. I was really tired the first time, so I figured I'd give it another chance. I made it about 10 minutes past the point where I originally had turned it off.

"Eye of the Beholder" - rented it and couldn't even make it half way through.

Becky



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Author: ellul One star, 50 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9650 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/24/2001 3:57 PM
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My theory on the neighbor is that he can't love his son because he wants to have sex with him. He goes after Kevin as kind of an attempt at a proxy fcuk, because he thinks Kevin and his son are having sex. I think that's why he gets mad enough at the rejection to kill Kevin.

That's an elaborate theory. I'm not sure if I agree.

I think the death of Spacey is one of the huge flaws in this movie. We can understand if his wife kills him, but having the homosexually repressed nazi dad do it is just silly.

Not to mention offensive.



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Author: AngryCandy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9651 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/24/2001 4:02 PM
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<<When the Spacey character finally get Mena Suvari's character within his grasp - but doesn't act - is the epiphany of the movie: At this point, he realizes that his "escape" over the past two hours of the movie was illusory and that despite her flaws, he loves his wife, and maybe despite its flaws that the conventional suburban life is who he is and that it is OK.>>

OK, I agree this, by far and away, the best part of the movie.

Which is, to say, it's the only part that isn't utterly ridiculous. It's the only vaguely "true" part of the most untrue movie ever made.

But most of the people who love this movie don't get this point at all. Just look at all the ridiculous claims about how this movie is about "taking control" and such crap.

Everyone in this movie (except the daughter again) is scum. They act like scum. They do nothing but scummy things until Lester's one somewhat redeeming (non-)act by not molesting the girl.

OK, fine, we've had plenty of movies about scummy people that have been interesting. Yet this one isn't. Why? Because none of their scummy actions make even the tiniest bit of sense. The mother spends half the movie crying for no apparent reason and the other half sleeping with the only man she can find who might be even more repulsive than Lester.

<<What the closing murder by the psycho gay marine caricature, er, character says, by the way, is less clear to me.>>

It's just the most random, inexplicable act in a plot moved almost exclusively by random, inexplicable acts.

Having the gay Nazi Marine dad kill Lester makes as much sense as having the movie end with an alien ship crashing into their house. They chose not to go with the alien ship because it would have cost more money.

-chris



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Author: Scorn6 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9652 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/24/2001 4:02 PM
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We can understand if his wife kills him, but having the homosexually repressed nazi dad do it is just silly.

NEIN! The movie is about doing what you feel, baby. Being true to yourself. The wife gets rewarded because she was doing what she felt like doing - to her, material success = happiness. Unibrow guy represents material success, so by boinking him she is getting in touch with her desires. She is rewarded by having her lame-o jerking off hubby killed. Gay neighbor is bad, i.e. not in touch with his true self, so he's punished.

6

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Author: AngryCandy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9654 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/24/2001 4:06 PM
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All i can say about Eyes Wide Shut is give it another chance.

I also had a negative reaction to it the first time and I still don't think it's anything more than OK but it's not as bad as it seems on first viewing.

-chris

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Author: AngryCandy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9655 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/24/2001 4:08 PM
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<<We can understand if his wife kills him, but having the homosexually repressed nazi dad do it is just silly.>>

They were just being consistent with the rest of the film.

I laughed out loud when he got shot. It was about the fifteenth time in the movie I remember thinking "No way, no way are they gonna do something this stupid." Except after the asinine scene where Nazi gay marine dad walks up to Lester and kisses him, I realized, "Yep, they really are gonna do something this stupid" where "this" is a variable equalling infinity.

-chris

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Author: Spyneyes Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9660 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/24/2001 7:58 PM
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"The Green Mile - The most sociably irresponsible movie I have seen."

Really? And why is that?

Apparently you didn't see "Dogma" or "Natural Born Killers." Both of which I should have walked out of!

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Author: Spyneyes Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9661 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/24/2001 8:03 PM
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"Yes, how much better it would have been to make a film about one of those well-adjusted, well-balanced families that never argues, never cries ... How super dooper believable and deep it would have been to show the typical perfect relationships that all of us have with our perfect neighbours ..."

OR how about something in-between, a bit more closer to reality.

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Author: Ascalon Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9670 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/24/2001 9:35 PM
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I think the death of Spacey is one of the huge flaws in this movie. We can understand if his wife kills him, but having the homosexually repressed nazi dad do it is just silly.

Huh? I can't see anything strange about a murderer being someone who clearly has a propensity for violence to the extent that they regularly beat their wife. His family walk on eggshells around him, he hates with an irritational passion and has fixated that hatred on Kevin Spacey's character. The man is an accident waiting to happen. No, he's a ticking bomb waiting to explode.

Not to mention offensive.

Offensive to whom exactly? Someone who lives in a politically correct psuedo-world where this couldn't possibly happen?





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Author: Ascalon Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9672 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/24/2001 9:39 PM
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Everyone in this movie (except the daughter again) is scum. They act like scum. They do nothing but scummy things until Lester's one somewhat redeeming (non-)act by not molesting the girl.

OK, fine, we've had plenty of movies about scummy people that have been interesting. Yet this one isn't. Why? Because none of their scummy actions make even the tiniest bit of sense.


Are we talking about Reservoir Dogs again?



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Author: Ascalon Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9674 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/24/2001 9:47 PM
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OR how about something in-between, a bit more closer to reality.

Stories are about conflict so you have to go with some extremes of reality. This story was about the internal emotional conflict faced by each character and how they dealt with it. Each of them dealt with their conflict in a different way, a way that revealed something sympathetic about that character by way of explanation.

There's no point making a film about normal regular people who go to work and pay their taxes and have perfect kids and no problems because that would simply be bland. If that's what you mean by closer to reality, then television soaps, sitcoms and talk shows have got the market cornered.

Ascalon


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Author: czeslaw2 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9684 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/24/2001 11:35 PM
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Does falling asleep during a video of The Matrix count?

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Author: Ascalon Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9685 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/24/2001 11:37 PM
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I nodded off for a couple of minutes at the beginning of Gladiator so I went to see it again thinking that I was just tired. I nearly fell asleep the second time too, so concluded it was the film.



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Author: ellul One star, 50 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9691 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/25/2001 3:49 AM
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Offensive to whom exactly? Someone who lives in a politically correct psuedo-world where this couldn't possibly happen?

Offensive to us nazi wife beating homosexually repressed crew cutted ex marines.

Naturally.

Listen, if you wanna shoot someone because you think your son is sucking their c***, fine. But, why kiss the guy?

It's offensive to gay people, and it's offensive to anyone who can write.


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Author: TJLea Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9692 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/25/2001 7:42 AM
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Offensive to whom exactly? Someone who lives in a politically correct psuedo-world where this couldn't possibly happen?

I was mildly offended. That is can happen does not mean it needed to be portrayed in such a manner.

I tell you what if you want surreal let Tim Burton take a crack at it. He's smart enough to have seen how stereotypical the characters were that he would have renammed them. If someone named Abusive-Gay-Marine killed Kevin it would have made sense.

TJ
Resident of PseudoMaryland

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Author: AngryCandy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9703 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/25/2001 12:03 PM
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<<it's offensive to anyone who can write.>>

Now this is the best review of AB yet.

-chris

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Author: Ascalon Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9706 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/25/2001 12:09 PM
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Listen, if you wanna shoot someone because you think your son is sucking their c***, fine. But, why kiss the guy?

It's offensive to gay people, and it's offensive to anyone who can write.


He wanted to shoot someone, anyone because he was a violent person. He chose Spacey's character because he developed a stalker-like fixation. He kissed him because he wanted to know what it would be like to be gay. The man was a nutjob. Anyway, as part of this he discovered he *wasn't* gay. So he felt justified in shooting Spacey. I thought all this was pretty obvious. It was right there on screen.

Ascalon



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Author: mglf Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9707 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/25/2001 12:11 PM
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"I thought all this was pretty obvious. It was right there on screen."

On this, I agree with Chris. Why was he even in the story in the first place. Or as my bud Raggmopp so eloquently (and frequently) puts it, "And this advances the plot how?"

mglf

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Author: Ascalon Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9708 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/25/2001 12:15 PM
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Why was he even in the story in the first place.

As a counterpoint to Spacey's character. As the villain. To show that a family environment could be a lot worse than that in the leading characters' home. To explain the background of the son. To kill Spacey. To show that people like this really do exist.





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Author: AngryCandy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9709 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/25/2001 12:16 PM
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<<He wanted to shoot someone, anyone because he was a violent person. >>

What complete nonsense.

<<He chose Spacey's character because he developed a stalker-like fixation. >>

No, he hadn't. Not in the movie.

See what ridiculous contortions you have to perform to explain the ludcirous motivation in this film?

<<Anyway, as part of this he discovered he *wasn't* gay. >>

What?

Did you even watch this movie?

If you didn't, I envy you, of course.

-chris

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Author: ellul One star, 50 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9712 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/25/2001 1:40 PM
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The man was a nutjob. Anyway, as part of this he discovered he *wasn't* gay. So he felt justified in shooting Spacey. I thought all this was pretty obvious. It was right there on screen.

This is an aesthetic difference of opinion, so it's not really resolvable. I just think that despite being obvious, it's poorly written.

The thing is, a great movie shouldn't have any bad scenes in it. In AB there are several. One of the worst scenes is Spacey throwing the plate against the wall.

For a movie that thinks of itself as literature, there sure is a lot of petty, pathetic people in it. That may be the point, but literature shouldn't be about the pathetic.

We have that everyday.


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Author: AngryCandy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9713 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/25/2001 1:44 PM
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<<One of the worst scenes is Spacey throwing the plate against the wall. >>

That is truly awful but I'm not sure it even makes the top 5 list for worst scenes in this film. The competition is too fierce.

How about a serious contender for worst scene in film history? The Three's Company sequence in which gay Nazi Marine dad watches through the window and through a series of "whacky coincidences" winds up thinking his son is fellating Lester? The complete lack of shame required to write such a truly embarassing scene almost makes me jealous.

-chris

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Author: TMFLiquid Three stars, 500 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9714 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/25/2001 1:52 PM
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Worst scene in film history huh? That's a pretty bold statement. I have seen some awful scenes in movies.

Rape scene in Showgirls.

Liv Tyler and Ben Affleck in the field with the animal crackers in Armageddon.

I want to name some more but I have to get back to work.

What other scenes do you guys consider the worst in film history?

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Author: Scorn6 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9718 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/25/2001 2:07 PM
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For a movie that thinks of itself as literature, there sure is a lot of petty, pathetic people in it. That may be the point, but literature shouldn't be about the pathetic.

Plenty of great literature is about the pathetic. I disagree almost completely with Ascalon's take on the flick, which I'm sure is symptomatic of AC (and others') objections to it. I think the characters are modern archetypes. The materialistic shrew. The repressed homosexual with a military obsession. The p*ssy-whipped husband with no backbone. The comfortably numb housewife who shuts it all out in order to deal. The youth-knows-best protagonists, the sexpot ingenue. And I still think it's about the relationship between sex and love and life. So there. I'll shut up about it if the rest of you will.

6

P.S. The paper bag thing was dumb.

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Author: Scorn6 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9719 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/25/2001 2:09 PM
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Liv Tyler and Ben Affleck in the field with the animal crackers in Armageddon.

Oh that's so bad.

Every scene in Message in a Bottle.

6

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Author: abbiesdad Three stars, 500 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9721 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/25/2001 2:14 PM
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The thing is, a great movie shouldn't have any bad scenes in it. In AB there are several. One of the worst scenes is Spacey throwing the plate against the wall.

In The Odd Couple Felix and Oscar are arguing at dinner time. Oscar says something about the "spagetti" Felix is making. "Hay! Shows you what you know. Its linguini." Oscar calmly picks up the plate and throws it at Felix, who ducks and the plate hits the wall, smearing the linguini on the wall as the plate and pasta slide down. "Now it's garbage," Oscar says in a great New York accent.

Now, there's a plate throwing scene!

If you remember the scene from the movie, you know what I am talking about.



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Author: ellul One star, 50 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9726 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/25/2001 3:56 PM
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Plenty of great literature is about the pathetic.

like?

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Author: Scorn6 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9727 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/25/2001 4:15 PM
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Prufrock, for example.

EOW (End of work), gotta go.

6

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Author: Spyneyes Big red star, 1000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9730 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/25/2001 4:54 PM
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"There's no point making a film about normal regular people who go to work and pay their taxes and have perfect kids and no problems because that would simply be bland.

Tell me something I don't know. You apparently forgot that I suggested something "in-between" not something as completely outside of reality as in American Beauty. (Back to my original point.)

"If that's what you mean by closer to reality, then television soaps, sitcoms and talk shows have got the market cornered."

Are you serious!? Sorry but I fail to see what any of these have to do with "reality." If you think they do, then you're also waaaay out of touch with it.


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Author: TMFLiquid Three stars, 500 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9731 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/25/2001 5:01 PM
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I wish my reality was like a sitcom. I really do.

-a

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Author: Ascalon Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9732 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/25/2001 5:25 PM
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"If that's what you mean by closer to reality, then television soaps, sitcoms and talk shows have got the market cornered."

Are you serious!? Sorry but I fail to see what any of these have to do with "reality." If you think they do, then you're also waaaay out of touch with it.

I said "If that's what you mean..."




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Author: Ascalon Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9747 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/26/2001 6:27 PM
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Dealing with some of the American Beauty criticisms. Needless to say...

SPOILER ALERT....









SPOILER ALERT....






Just look at all the ridiculous claims about how this movie is about "taking control" and such crap.

Kevin Spacey takes control of his life by quitting his job and blackmailing his boss into giving him a year's salary. He then starts to take control of his body shape which he's unhappy with in order to get control of his sex life.

Annette Benning takes control of her life by dating and having sex with her main business rival, a man whose confidence she desperately wants as evidenced through her dependence on pyscho-babble management techniques. Witness her slapping herself after failing to sell a house and berating herself with "You're weak!" Typical textbook techniques rather than real-life ability. She learns to fire a gun because it gives her a sense of control. Later we see her in her car listening to some kind of self-confidence tape.

The daughter takes control of her life more and more through the film. She starts with the usual teenage sarcasm. Then she moves on to posing for the neighbour boy's video camera in her window, acknowledging her awareness of the joy of her own body. Finally, she drops her best friend, rejects her parents and takes all the steps to running away with her boyfriend to New York.

The boy next door takes control of his life by telling his father he sells his body for homosexual sex, the one thing that will outrage the man above all else. In this way, he makes the transition to manhood. He then leaves with his girlfriend.

And so it goes on. What part of this movie *isn't* about taking control?

Everyone in this movie (except the daughter again) is scum. They act like scum. They do nothing but scummy things until Lester's one somewhat redeeming (non-)act by not molesting the girl.

Spacey and Benning's characters are amalgams of people going through a mid-life crisis. Surrounded by the possessions they've worked for and losing touch with their daughter and each other, they realise that they have lost something from their lives. A sense of other people and a sense of who they are.

Actually I thought the scummiest person is actually the daughter when she coldly stares into the video camera lens and says she wants her father dead. She doesn't mean this, of course. She admits as much straightaway. What she really wants is her father truly alive but he hasn't seemed as if he's been alive for years and she hasn't been able to miss him, to mourn him, because he's right there. But that's just an empty shell.

OK, fine, we've had plenty of movies about scummy people that have been interesting. Yet this one isn't. Why? Because none of their scummy actions make even the tiniest bit of sense. The mother spends half the movie crying for no apparent reason and the other half sleeping with the only man she can find who might be even more repulsive than Lester.

The mother is hooked on finding her own space. The red rose petals seen throughout the film are actually symbolic of her garden, the place she goes to find refuge from her distant husband. The more she does this, the more distant she becomes too. Yet every evening, there are those roses on the table together with the romantic music reminding them of a romance, a togetherness long since past. The roses are a constant reminder of the love, the woman Spacey has lost.

Benning sleeps with the real estate King because she is attracted to his confidence, his success and power. There's no element of repulsion there. Her chat up line is something about her wanting to pick his brains. Omigod, that is so trying to live the life without feeling the feelings. She's hypnotized herself into believing she deserves better and better than she already has. She can never be satisfied with what she has because she is following the psycho-babble books and tapes that push her ever forwards to a dream of success.

Having the gay Nazi Marine dad kill Lester makes as much sense as having the movie end with an alien ship crashing into their house. They chose not to go with the alien ship because it would have cost more money.

This is perhaps *the* main plot binding the whole film together. Without this event, American Beauty consists mainly of Spacey's character development, his changing his working lifestyle, smoking pot, seduction of his daughter's friend and his wife's affair. This is paralleled by the development of the dope-dealing boy next door who somehow becomes a kind of role model to him.

Why does the colonel kill Spacey? The colonel becomes increasingly agitated with his gay neighbours then sees Spacey running with them and suspects something. He sees his son's videotape of Spacey, sees his son rush over to his house after being paged, sees his son's girlfriend arrive after seeing Spacey apparently getting a blow job from the son. Then the two clinchers. First, his son tells him he is being paid for blow jobs and is 'the best piece of ass in three states'. Then Spacey tells him his marriage is a sham.

If the colonel is gay, then his marriage too is a sham and he resents Spacey with a cold-blooded fury we have already witnessed for both his freedom and for taking his son from him. If the colonel is just an out and out homophobe, then he is a violent man whose wife and son clearly both fear him totally. He confronts Spacey in a state of shock to see if maybe he could be gay--why else would his son be gay? Spacey rejects him, so he maybe decides he isn't. Therefore Spacey must have been the one who corrupted his son.

Or maybe he just hates Spacey for having the freedom and courage to live his life--something most people are afraid to do once they've built up a certain level of material wealth--and his rejection of his advance is the last straw.

Whichever way you watch it, the Colonel is motivated to kill him.

Ascalon


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Author: Ascalon Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9748 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/26/2001 6:39 PM
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Listen, if you wanna shoot someone because you think your son is sucking their c***, fine. But, why kiss the guy?

Theories: he is in shock or he is actually gay or he wants to know what could have made his son gay.

It's offensive to gay people, and it's offensive to anyone who can write.

It's patronizing to suggest that gay people should generalize from the depiction of one-off characters in movies any more than heterosexual people should. Everyone looks for positive role models. But much as you might wish it otherwise, there aren't very positive role models for *anyone* in this story. It is more a warning and a wake up call to prompt than a series of happy clappy tidy answers.

As for the claim that American Beauty is offensive to anyone who can write... huh? It's a perfectly structured film. There isn't a scene or a line of dialogue out of place. It makes you laugh, it makes you angry, it makes you sad. It manages to put across some very powerful emotional moments without getting maudlin or sentimental.

American Beauty never slackens to the point where you want to pull away because it's emotionally all going one way. And, as I've pointed out before, all the main characters go through some kind of revealing emotional change and development as we watch. Most writers would be extremely lucky, let alone happy, to be able to provide half the dramatic value in a script that this film does.

Ascalon


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Author: Ascalon Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9749 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/26/2001 6:44 PM
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More AB...

spoiler...










spoiler...









One of the worst scenes is Spacey throwing the plate against the wall.

That was actually a really powerful moment. His wife was ignoring him, having just discovered her libido again and feeling sexually fulfilled. She was yabbering without listening, as people do when they are full of themselves. His daughter was lightyears away in a world of her own. And there was Spacey. He had taken a huge step and quit his job, gaining a year's severance into the bargain. That is massive. And no one was paying any attention to him. So he took control of the situation. It's actually a turning point for Spacey's character in relation to his family life.

Ascalon


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Author: mglf Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9750 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/26/2001 6:52 PM
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(No spoilers for me, this has been talked out past any meaning for them)

Ascalon -

The more I think about it, the more I like Chris's take on the movie.

My view is that all of the "taking control" that the various characters do is the anti-point of the movie.

Kevin Spacey's character makes a caricature of himself by quitting, smoking, pumping (iron that is), and fast-fooding.

Annette Bening's character takes control by sleeping with the textbook, over-the-top definition of shallow, a real-estate geek at the expense of her marriage?

Leaving the kids aside for the moment, all of this taking control is entirely contradicted at the end of the movie, which emphatically declares we are who we are, and are merely borne uncontrollably on the winds of fate like the garbage bag, and that control over our own lives is illusory.

Which is an interesting point to a somewhat conventionally presented movie that leads many people to the exact opposite conclusion.

But I agree with Chris that the path to that point was fairly painful, peopled almost entirely by painfully overdrawn caricatures. As I said earlier, I am possibly willing to accept the overdrawing as a neo-Felliniesque surrealism, which I could even find redeeming.

But I'd have to watch the movie one more time to see whether I agree with my hypothesis.

mglf

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Author: AngryCandy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9751 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/26/2001 6:59 PM
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<<As for the claim that American Beauty is offensive to anyone who can write... huh? It's a perfectly structured film. There isn't a scene or a line of dialogue out of place. >>

Jesus Tap-Dancing Christ, this makes me want to cry.

That anyone could misconstrue this pablum directed at simpletons as "perfect" or great art is an insult to great art or even competent art. You should be ashamed.

-chris

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Author: AngryCandy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9752 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/26/2001 7:02 PM
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<<Leaving the kids aside for the moment, all of this taking control is entirely contradicted at the end of the movie, which emphatically declares we are who we are, and are merely borne uncontrollably on the winds of fate like the garbage bag, and that control over our own lives is illusory.>>

All dead on except I'm not sure that AB is trying to say anything about us being at the whim of fate - except maybe with Mr. Gay Nazi Marine dad shooting someone he doesn't even know.

It is saying that you can't just opt out. You can't just do whatever you want. You can't just set your own rules and ignore the consequences your actions have on anyone other than you. Selfishness is not the answer. There really isn't _an_ answer - you just play the cards you're dealt and that's all.

And I actually like that message - I just hate the way it's told here.

-chris

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Author: Ascalon Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9753 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/26/2001 7:13 PM
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My view is that all of the "taking control" that the various characters do is the anti-point of the movie.

Yes, but it's still about taking control, even if the end message is that control is an illusion.

I agree with Chris that the path to that point was fairly painful, peopled almost entirely by painfully overdrawn caricatures.

You could say that about any movie.

The fact that these people take the control thing to extremes is symptomatic of society at large. And I think the humor--which may be where the confusion with caricature lies--saves it from going to extremes of sugary or soapy unwatchableness.

Ascalon



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Author: Ascalon Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9754 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/26/2001 7:17 PM
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That anyone could misconstrue this pablum directed at simpletons as "perfect" or great art is an insult to great art or even competent art. You should be ashamed.

On the contrary, I am dancing freestyle on my coffee table to loud rock music in a celebration of the beauty of life.

Ascalon



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Author: TheNajdorfDefens Big funky green star, 20000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool CAPS All Star Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9758 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/26/2001 8:20 PM
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Liv Tyler and Ben Affleck in the field with the animal crackers in Armageddon.

Oh that's so bad.

Every scene in Message in a Bottle.

6


Every scene after the opening in Jawbreaker.

Oh wait, that one sucked too.

Naj


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Author: filmjunky333 Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9762 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/26/2001 8:43 PM
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Ok, I know I'm gonna get it for this. First let me say that I don't walk out of movies so the film I am about to site, a popular film, was (in my opinion) such a badly constructed bit of dreck that I found myself pounding for the door almost TWO HOURS INTO IT. An don't say that it was because of it's length because I have happily sat through 6 and 7 hour long films.
Here it is:
GLADIATOR

I think it was Sam Goldwyn who said he knew if a movie was bad if he realized his butt hurt sitting in lousy seats.
J

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Author: AngryCandy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9764 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/26/2001 10:21 PM
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<<On the contrary, I am dancing freestyle on my coffee table to loud rock music in a celebration of the beauty of life.>>

Lemme guess, it's Wallflowers or Counting Crows, right? :)

-chris

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Author: ellul One star, 50 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9766 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/26/2001 10:24 PM
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It's patronizing to suggest that gay people should generalize from the depiction of one-off characters in movies any more than heterosexual people should.

No, it isn't. It's patronizing to offer shallow characters:


And to many, Colonel Fitts came off not just as a symbol or an archetype, but a full-fledged stereotype. He's a right-wing military man who loves guns and hates gays -- and then, it turns out he is homophobic since he is secretly, latently gay himself, and he hates himself, and "them," for it.

From:http://www.hollywoodnet.com/StoryNotes/americanbeauty.html

It is more a warning and a wake up call to prompt than a series of happy clappy tidy answers.

No, I didn't go to this movie looking for answers! As if. All I ask from a film is consistency, not completeness.

American Beauty never slackens to the point where you want to pull away because it's emotionally all going one way. And, as I've pointed out before, all the main characters go through some kind of revealing emotional change and development as we watch.

Who cares. I go through emotional development every day. The difference is I care about me.


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Author: ellul One star, 50 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9767 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/26/2001 10:30 PM
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YET MORE AB!



ellul:One of the worst scenes is Spacey throwing the plate against the wall.

Ascalon: That was actually a really powerful moment. His wife was ignoring him, having just discovered her libido again and feeling sexually fulfilled. She was yabbering without listening, as people do when they are full of themselves. His daughter was lightyears away in a world of her own. And there was Spacey. He had taken a huge step and quit his job, gaining a year's severance into the bargain. That is massive. And no one was paying any attention to him. So he took control of the situation. It's actually a turning point for Spacey's character in relation to his family life.

I understand that the apex of frustration has been reached. I just think the scene is weak. Annette isn't that strong. Spacey is alright, but throwing a plate against the wall is not an interesting image to me. It's purely aesthetic, but I think this is an average scene.

Remember Citizen Kane? Great movie, but that scene where Kane destroys his bedroom after Susan leaves is poorly made. This scene is rather similar.


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Author: AngryCandy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9768 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/26/2001 10:37 PM
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http://www.hollywoodnet.com/StoryNotes/americanbeauty.html


<<Therefore, many would argue that the characterization in this film could have been better. That it would have been stronger with characters who seemed like real people at an earlier point, rather than symbols and/or archetypes, and if there had been no stereotypes.

It does indeed take quite some time to really believe in these characters. It takes quite a while to start caring about some of them. It takes a long time for them to start acting like real, three-dimensional, complex, flesh-and-blood human beings. Perhaps that was the intent. Maybe this was meant to be satirical, ironic, and stylized, and they were meant to be archetypes and symbols of certain types of people and values, rather than seem real.

This makes the film difficult to fully appreciate for many (myself included). Only near the end do we really believe in and start to care about some of the characters, such as Lester and Angela. Luckily, we came to believe and care about Jane and Ricky much earlier. And therefore, no doubt many viewers wished that those two were the central characters of the film. >>



This is from the link ellul provided and I think it describes the primary weakness of this film well. Obviously, the absurdity of the characters bothers some more than others but it is a clear weakness.

He's also dead on that Jane and Ricky are the only two you care about at all for most of the film - for me, it's for all of the film. They actually had something with those two characters but never explored it. There simply was nothing going on with Lester or Carolyn or Gay Nazi Marine Dad.

-chris

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Author: Scorn6 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9783 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/27/2001 9:23 AM
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Leaving the kids aside for the moment, all of this taking control is entirely contradicted at the end of the movie, which emphatically declares we are who we are, and are merely borne uncontrollably on the winds of fate like the garbage bag, and that control over our own lives is illusory.

I have to say that I think you're correct. Funny how Ascalon and I have such different takes on this yet both enjoyed it. I think that "taking control" is a bad description of what the characters are doing. More like, naming or at least getting a good (naked, rose-covered) visual of what they want and going after it. Less taking control than rededicating themselves to self-gratification. Spacey dies, sure, but better then than at the beginning when he was miserable. At least he achieved some measure of enjoyment out of life before getting whacked.

6

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Author: TJLea Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9784 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/27/2001 9:35 AM
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Less taking control than rededicating themselves to self-gratification.

Lisa,

I always like your posts. You are right. That is the theme.

If it was done in a more realistic way I could get caught up in the movie. Since the characters were unbelievable and they were engaged in self service what is there to watch? I will acknowledge there was some good acting (given what they had)good technical support and some interesting directing. But if I want to see unbelievable characters engaging in me-me-me, I'll watch Big Brother, Real World and Dexter's Lab. At least those are funny. Which AB was in many unintentional ways.

TJ

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Author: Scorn6 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9785 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/27/2001 9:42 AM
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But if I want to see unbelievable characters engaging in me-me-me, I'll watch Big Brother, Real World and Dexter's Lab. At least those are funny. Which AB was in many unintentional ways

I guess maybe I'm jaded by all the bad characters out there. At least here I knew they were supposed to be charicatures more than characters.

6

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Author: TJLea Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9786 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/27/2001 9:47 AM
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I guess maybe I'm jaded by all the bad characters out there. At least here I knew they were supposed to be charicatures more than characters.

I don't mind that. Look at Tim Burton's Edward Scissorhands. All classic stereotypes. When you fill your movie with stereotypes you better have a script that acknowledges that and moves to the surreal or accept the fact that you're creating an Ahnold or Steven Segal movie.

The juxtaposition of the charicatures, the theme and the delivery just didn't work for me. When it was over it just felt hollow.

Thanks for the reply. I love this board.

TJ


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Author: Scorn6 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9787 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/27/2001 9:52 AM
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The juxtaposition of the charicatures, the theme and the delivery just didn't work for me. When it was over it just felt hollow.

I do know what you mean - Annette Benning's character is so over the top, like the Nazi dad, you can put them in the "fake" box and deal. Spacey somehow manages to be over the top and yet sympathetic. I definitely like the movie more from a distance than while actually watching it.

6

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Author: TJLea Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9788 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/27/2001 9:59 AM
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Spacey somehow manages to be over the top and yet sympathetic

I agree. I loved the fast food scenes. If the Spacey character is to work though, then everyone else needs to be very real while he's off being quirky-man. It's the Sitcom formula in reverse. If Mary Tyler Moore of Bob Newhart is sane and normal then everyone else around them can go nuts. In the movies if the lead is insane (Robin Williams in a number of roles)then everyone around him must be normal. If everyone is insane it must be a farce.

Please accept my...

Warmest regards,

TJ

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Author: AngryCandy Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9792 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/27/2001 11:15 AM
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<<Less taking control than rededicating themselves to self-gratification.>>

But none of that works for them either.

I think they are looking for an easy fix to their problems and like little kids just establishing their own identities, they think any breaking of the rules is, by definition, a good thing. But they do nothing to improve their lives by their selfishness.

-chris

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Author: Ascalon Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9810 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/27/2001 7:40 PM
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<<On the contrary, I am dancing freestyle on my coffee table to loud rock music in a celebration of the beauty of life.>>

Lemme guess, it's Wallflowers or Counting Crows, right? :)


Ha! I think it was actually The Eels.



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Author: Ascalon Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9811 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/27/2001 7:57 PM
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It's patronizing to offer shallow characters:

Well, so much for the film industry!

And to many, Colonel Fitts came off not just as a symbol or an archetype, but a full-fledged stereotype. He's a right-wing military man who loves guns and hates gays -- and then, it turns out he is homophobic since he is secretly, latently gay himself, and he hates himself, and "them," for it.

From:http://www.hollywoodnet.com/StoryNotes/americanbeauty.html


From the same website:

Given that quite a few scenes -- about half, when added together -- don't feature Lester at all, while it can be said he's the main character (he provides the narration, he's the first character we see, and it's his death that we've been leading toward), still, we really couldn't say that this movie is about Lester and his problems, desires, and goals.

Actually, Jane the daughter is the first character we see, talking to a video camera about her father and suggesting that her boyfriend murders him. (The same scene is repeated later on). Although broadly, yes, he has got the themes right from whatever source he is using, maybe that writer should watch the film?

Anyone else here getting their opinions secondhand? No, close the book. You can't look this one up. So, anyone...? Anyone? Bueller...?

Ascalon



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Author: Ascalon Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9812 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/27/2001 8:08 PM
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I understand that the apex of frustration has been reached. I just think the scene is weak. Annette isn't that strong. Spacey is alright, but throwing a plate against the wall is not an interesting image to me. It's purely aesthetic, but I think this is an average scene.

Spacey gets a lot of screentime in that scene so comes across visually very dominant but Annette Benning's dialogue is incessant. There is no way he can hear himself think over her idiotic gabbling which she has developed out of her new-found power. As for the aesthetics of an image, well he could have thrown the plate at the camera, yes.

The director could have used clever tricks to make the plate look aesthetically pleasing as it smashed. But at the end of the day what's the scene about? Rhetorical question because the answer is the family dynamics. So the director focuses on the family first and foremost and lets the frame be a proscenium for their action rather than forcing aesthetics on us.

I really didn't feel it was poorly made. Tell me, if you were editing it, what would you have done differently?

Ascalon



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Author: Ascalon Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9813 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/27/2001 8:19 PM
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It does indeed take quite some time to really believe in these characters. It takes quite a while to start caring about some of them. It takes a long time for them to start acting like real, three-dimensional, complex, flesh-and-blood human beings. Perhaps that was the intent. Maybe this was meant to be satirical, ironic, and stylized, and they were meant to be archetypes and symbols of certain types of people and values, rather than seem real.

This film could have been done without the humor perhaps but then it wouldn't be the same film. Yes, of course it was satirical and stylized. That's obvious from the word go. However, it's a movie and all movies are stylized to some extent. This one was heavily so, but that doesn't make its points any less valid or its characters any less important. It's called drama. Doesn't anyone go to the theatre?

This thing about using satire, irony and stylistic elements is bizarre. These have always been elements of storytelling. Did people use these same criticisms for Ferris Bueller's Day Off? Or The Good, The Bad and The Ugly? Or Shakespeare's Hamlet--films or play? Everyone does it, unless they're making a socially realistic documentary and that's not what I go to the movies to see.

Ascalon





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Author: apetrel Three stars, 500 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9814 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/27/2001 9:36 PM
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apetrel:<<The dominate theme of American Beauty is about finding the wonder and joy in each moment of life that most of us have the choice of experiencing or unconsciously pissing away. >>

This is, of course, the take that very stupid people have regarding the movie.

Since none of the characters do anything but make ridiculous decisions that make their lives worse and worse, it is impossible to see how the film could possibly be about "finding wonder and joy."

Except to a simpleton, that is.
chris



Chris, I must admit surprise that you quoted from the link that ellul supplied to support you point about American Beauty. I know from your own modesty that you are brilliant and I find it very curious that you would try to buttress your point from someone who is obviously a simpleton.

Mr. Newman:<<The problem that some would have with the film's themes is that two other themes -- the articulated themes -- seem to not relate closely to these four themes, and that these articulated themes are not well-illustrated by the events of the film.
The two articulated themes are: There is much beauty in the world, so much that it can be difficult to bear. And also: We should be grateful for every minute of our stupid little lives.>>

If Mr. Newman is a simpleton and surely you think he must be by his delineation of the what he identifies as the films articulated themes, why use him to support your point? Stranger still, why do you continue with American Beauty if it is such a total Hollywood piece of crap?

BTW, how many times does Hanks bend over in his loin cloth in that boring fedex commercial?

"The undelivered package gave me something to live for," dam that is a plot to die for.

Too bad there wasn't a bent Marine colonel on that island.



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Author: Ascalon Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9822 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/28/2001 6:10 AM
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I think that "taking control" is a bad description of what the characters are doing. More like, naming or at least getting a good (naked, rose-covered) visual of what they want and going after it.

I like this. This makes me want to see the film again for another look.

Ascalon


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Author: Ascalon Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9823 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/28/2001 6:14 AM
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...if I want to see unbelievable characters engaging in me-me-me, I'll watch Big Brother, Real World and Dexter's Lab. At least those are funny. Which AB was in many unintentional ways.

Aggh! The humor is all intentional. Is this the problem, that everyone thought AB was all totally serious?

Ascalon



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Author: bigcaat Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9847 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/29/2001 8:45 PM
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Casino.


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Author: TJLea Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9875 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/30/2001 11:26 AM
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Aggh! The humor is all intentional. Is this the problem, that everyone thought AB was all totally serious?

No. The problem is that the combination of humor, stereotypes, surrealism and serious thematics didn't combine well, even though the acting and technical aspects were well done. See Edward Scissorhands for how it can be well done.

TJ

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Author: Ascalon Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9880 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/30/2001 12:55 PM
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The problem is that the combination of humor, stereotypes, surrealism and serious thematics didn't combine well, even though the acting and technical aspects were well done. See Edward Scissorhands for how it can be well done.

This is an interesting but, I feel, rather baseless assertion. How about comparing and contrasting some specific examples from the films to back it up?

Ascalon






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Author: TJLea Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9920 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/31/2001 9:33 AM
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The problem is that the combination of humor, stereotypes, surrealism and serious thematics didn't combine well, even though the acting and technical aspects were well done. See Edward Scissorhands for how it can be well done.

This is an interesting but, I feel, rather baseless assertion. How about comparing and contrasting some specific examples from the films to back it up?


Setting:
ES - Suburban America - All houses are identical and painted one color all props designed to show conformity. Obviously not real but reflective therefore you can buy into the premise suspending your disbelief.

AB - Suburban America - Also shows conformity but displayed as truth not as an abstract notion. Therefore no suspension of disbelief asked for by the director but when the truth rings hollow disbelief becomes the reaction.

Characters -

ES - All stereotypes, mad scientist, nosey neighbor, cheerleader, envious football captain, however because they exist within this stereotypical world we see them as iconic and part of a story not like...

AB - Where the stereotypes are portrayed as real people grappling with real problems. Once again are inability to suspend disbelief leaves us uncomfortable with the story at a gut level.

one could go on. I hope you get my point. If not please reattack.

TJ


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Author: Ascalon Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9926 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 7/31/2001 12:23 PM
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Interesting...

AB - Suburban America - Also shows conformity but displayed as truth not as an abstract notion. Therefore no suspension of disbelief asked for by the director but when the truth rings hollow disbelief becomes the reaction.

Suspension of disbelief is more than a function of production design. Suspension of disbelief happens every time you buy a film ticket. The fact that one film has scenery painted to look like something out of a cartoon while the other uses fantasy sequences should be enough to tell the audience these things aren't quite real.

It's drama not documentary, despite styles favoring realism in the cinema. The style is a prop to help tell the story by connecting with the audience in a certain way, imparting things like the tone of the message and the constraints of the action. None of this is life as we know it (Jim).

ES - All stereotypes, mad scientist, nosey neighbor, cheerleader, envious football captain, however because they exist within this stereotypical world we see them as iconic and part of a story not like...

AB - Where the stereotypes are portrayed as real people grappling with real problems. Once again are inability to suspend disbelief leaves us uncomfortable with the story at a gut level.


If there was no truth in stereotypes, if they had no power to connect with audiences, writers would stop using them. Pure and simple. All film characters have elements of stereotyping, from Charlie Chaplin's poor sad clown to Hitchcock's obsession for casting ice cool blondes. Just because you can put them in a pigeonhole with a label doesn't make them any less complex, with any fewer insights to offer.

one could go on.

Please feel free.

I hope you get my point...

Well, I find your points thought provoking.

...If not please reattack.

It shouldn't be read as an attack. I sometimes use these discussions to help me think through issues and clarify my understanding. AB has a lot to offer by way of discussion if nothing else. We could just as easily talk about spaghetti westerns or Philip K. Dick sci-fi derivatives or James Bond but they don't seem to polarize opinion as much.

Perhaps that's because this film really does fall between two stools--realism and exaggeration--in a unique way while those other film genres have successfully maintained their balance on both. I find that fascinating in itself to discuss although I don't think it's really true. If you do want to stop on the AB thread, however, no worries. I won't lose any sleep over it.

Ascalon : )



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Author: TJLea Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9963 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 8/1/2001 7:53 AM
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It shouldn't be read as an attack. I sometimes use these discussions to help me think through issues and clarify my understanding. AB has a lot to offer by way of discussion if nothing else. We could just as easily talk about spaghetti westerns or Philip K. Dick sci-fi derivatives or James Bond but they don't seem to polarize opinion as much.

Sorry! Reattack in the Air Force does not connote "attack" it merely means reengage. I was not threatened or offended or anything bad.

Perhaps that's because this film really does fall between two stools--realism and exaggeration--in a unique way while those other film genres have successfully maintained their balance on both. I find that fascinating in itself to discuss although I don't think it's really true.

I agreed with your earlier remarks about suspension of disbelief, however in this case the movie's presentation made it difficult for me to do so. That distraction engaged me intellectually during the movie. I was unable to just "go along for the ride." As such my critical eye dominated my entertainment eye and I saw the movie as a house of cards which ultimately collapsed. It just didn't work for me. I suspend my disbelief easily. Even Armageddon, "sure NASA has a gattling gun on the Lunar Rover. Why not?" or Independance Day "Sure an apple computer can't interface with anything else on the planet but it can drop a virus on the Alien mainframe. Why not?"

I guess it worked for some and not for others. Thanks for letting me figure some of that out. It's nice to have a board. It took me three days after seeing Pulp Fiction for the first time to understand why they showed the scenes out of temporal sequence. This board would have helped me through that much faster I'm sure.

Thanks, Cheers, and Peace,

TJ

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Author: Ascalon Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9964 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 8/1/2001 8:16 AM
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That distraction engaged me intellectually during the movie. I was unable to just "go along for the ride."

One of the best productions of Hamlet I've seen at the theatre was powerful yet standard period costume fayre until the Yorick scene. If you remember the story at that point, Hamlet has left the country and he meets the gravedigger on his return home. The production company included a surreal sequence just before he appeared where the gravedigger pulled out a large stereo and started doing a dance macabre to Michael Jackson's Thriller. I kid you not. It allowed the audience to absorb the events that had just happened and also stood in for the several years Hamlet was supposedly away. None of this was stated, they just did it and it was totally incongruous. Nevertheless, I thought it worked, so I guess I'm kind of open to these things.

Ascalon


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Author: TJLea Big gold star, 5000 posts Feste Award Nominee! Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 9966 of 63270
Subject: Re: Movies you've walked out of... Date: 8/1/2001 9:06 AM
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Nevertheless, I thought it worked, so I guess I'm kind of open to these things.

I am too. Just not this time. Well maybe not. The Bard and Michael Jackson!? Well Ok, if you're willing to try it, I'm willing to go along. It would really work if Vincent Price was playing Hamlet. :)

To thrill or not to thrill

Alas poor Tito, I knew him well

TJ


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