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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 756947  
Subject: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done... Date: 1/12/2013 10:56 AM
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Mr. President, the worst thing you’ve done is you sent a message to America in your reelection campaign that we live in a zero-sum universe.

That is, there's a fixed amount of good things. Life is a pizza. If some people have too many slices, other people have to eat the pizza box. You had no answer to Mitt Romney’s argument for more pizza parlors baking more pizzas. The solution to our problems, you said, is redistribution of the pizzas we’ve got—-with low-cost, government-subsidized pepperoni somehow materializing as the result of higher taxes on pizza-parlor owners.

In your zero-sum universe, there's only so much happiness. The idea is that if we wipe the smile off the faces of people with prosperous businesses and successful careers, that will make the rest of us grin.

There's only so much money. The people who have money are hogging it. The way for the rest of us to get money is to turn the hogs into bacon.

The evil of zero-sum thinking and redistributive politics has nothing to do with which things are taken or to whom those things are given or what the sum of zero things is supposed to be. The evil lies in denying people the right, the means, and indeed the duty to make more things.

Last week I wrote about the crisis of unemployment in Europe. I received a great deal of feedback, with Europeans agreeing that this is the core problem and Americans arguing that the United States has the same problem, asserting that U.S. unemployment is twice as high as the government's official unemployment rate. My counterargument is that unemployment in the United States isn't a problem in the same sense that it is in Europe because it doesn't pose a geopolitical threat. The United States doesn't face political disintegration from unemployment, whatever the number is. Europe might.

At the same time, I would agree that the United States faces a potentially significant but longer-term geopolitical problem deriving from economic trends. The threat to the United States is the persistent decline in the middle class standard of living, a problem that's reshaping the social order that's been in place since World War II and that, if it continues, poses a threat to American power. ~P. J. O'Rourke

Barack Owebama = worst president ever.
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Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666009 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/12/2013 11:12 AM
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Barack Owebama = worst president ever.

Why so coy about it?

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Author: jwiest Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666032 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/12/2013 12:50 PM
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In your zero-sum universe, there's only so much happiness. The idea is that if we wipe the smile off the faces of people with prosperous businesses and successful careers, that will make the rest of us grin.

Ah, the usual rephrased BS. Yes, the pie is not finite, but as usual, you leave out a critical element. What you're missing is (using your analogy):

a) at any given time, the pie is definitely finite
b) in the past, say 50 years ago, the share of the pie at any given time slice was more evenly shared
c) this meant there was more more calories in a broader pool, giving more people access to leverage that energy and apply it in new ways.

The evil of zero-sum thinking and redistributive politics ...

We still have redistributive politics, it's just that things have been shifted so the share of the pie rests more and more with a select few. This leaves less energy for others to leverage and apply it in new ways.

The evil lies in denying people the right, the means, and indeed the duty to make more things.

No such denial exists. 50 years ago the top rate was > 90%. People were still wealthy and small businesses (the ones that create jobs) flourished. Why do you want to go back to a feudal society?

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666040 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/12/2013 1:16 PM
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At least I'm not idiotic.

Al Sharpton: Is Obama Ready for Mt. Rushmore?
http://freebeacon.com/sharpton-is-obama-ready-for-mt-rushmor...

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666042 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/12/2013 1:17 PM
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jwiest wrote: No such denial exists. 50 years ago the top rate was > 90%. People were still wealthy and small businesses (the ones that create jobs) flourished. Why do you want to go back to a feudal society?

Nonsense. There was NEVER a time when the government of the United States took 90% of what even the wealthiest earned.

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Author: MissEdithKeeler Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666043 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/12/2013 1:24 PM
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Nonsense. There was NEVER a time when the government of the United States took 90% of what even the wealthiest earned.


http://taxfoundation.org/article/us-federal-individual-incom...

Scroll down to 1963 and earlier. The highest tax rate is 91%.

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666045 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/12/2013 1:30 PM
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jwiest:"Yes, the pie is not finite, but as usual, you leave out a critical element. What you're missing is (using your analogy):

a) at any given time, the pie is definitely finite
b) in the past, say 50 years ago, the share of the pie at any given time slice was more evenly shared
c) this meant there was more more calories in a broader pool, giving more people access to leverage that energy and apply it in new ways."



No, at any given time, the pie is always able to grow. Duh! Even Owebama admits the economy is squeaking along at 1-2% growth per year. More pie. the stock market has been advancing year after year. THe housing prices are once again rising.

ANd, worse, you fall into the lib dem fallacy of 'if the government isn't doing it, it doesn't happen'.


Every year hundreds of thousands of new businesses start. HEck, there was no business on Ebay 10 years ago...now, you can open your Ebay store in 20 minutes and sell stuff you make yourself. NO hassles. You can start your own wood carving business, or meet a need in your community. Your pie is yours to make.

------




Jwiest:"We still have redistributive politics, it's just that things have been shifted so the share of the pie rests more and more with a select few. "


Hah...we got 47% paying no income taxes....and most of them living off the government .....eating taxpayer pie.

The biggest payouts are now 'entitlement programs' ...handing out government pie, and taking it mostly from 'the rich' top 10% who pay almost 90% of all income taxes.

---------



jwiest:"This leaves less energy for others to leverage and apply it in new ways."

Ha.....it's easier today with the web to go into business. It's easier to get business contacts and sell things. It's easier to buy. You have new ways of financing things. gimme a break

------



jwiest:"50 years ago the top rate was > 90%. "

and what, 10 people actually exceeded the threshold and not by much? The other 10,000 making that much used tax loopholes and deductions and legal methods to chop their tax bills by 90% legally.

------




jwiest:"People were still wealthy and small businesses (the ones that create jobs) flourished. "

Yes, and most of them didn't make a lot of money 'on paper' and grew the business and grew it.....giving them long term capital gain when they finally sold 30 years later. In the mean time, they hardly paid any taxes. duh!

and the wealthy bought lots of muni bonds...no tax. duh! and real estate for the depreciation. Low annual income.....but lots of 'wealth' that you can never tax.



--------



Once again, libs show 'wealth envy'....


t.

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Author: 307wolverine Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666046 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/12/2013 1:32 PM
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Arrrrgggghhhh!!!!

Why are liberals so freakin' stupid? This bogus factoid has been shot down so often it isn't funny. NOBODY paid 91% with all of the loopholes and such.

Effin' brain-damaged idiots.

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Author: MissEdithKeeler Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Favorite Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666048 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/12/2013 1:36 PM
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Arrrrgggghhhh!!!!

Why are liberals so freakin' stupid? This bogus factoid has been shot down so often it isn't funny. NOBODY paid 91% with all of the loopholes and such.

Effin' brain-damaged idiots.


Seriously. This is your best argument? It's a fact that the highest marginal tax rate was over 90% for many years.

The highest marginal tax rate now is what, 35%? And with "loopholes and such" the wealthiest are still paying far less. What was the one that Mitt did disclose? 14%?

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666057 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/12/2013 2:02 PM
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Edith :"
The highest marginal tax rate now is what, 35%? And with "loopholes and such" the wealthiest are still paying far less. What was the one that Mitt did disclose? 14%? "

Actually, if you look at tax collections, the 'rich' paid a signficantly less portion of the total tax take when rates were 90%.

Back in the 60s, they paid about 60% of all taxes collected.

Now, with lower tax rates, they pay about 80%of all taxes and the top 10% pay 90% of all taxes collected.

back in 1960, almost NO ONE paid zero income taxes! now, almost 50% pay no income taxes!....

YOU ARE WAY OFF BASE


The percentage of taxes paid by the rich has gone up by 50% in 50 years!


t

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Author: 2828 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666059 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/12/2013 2:06 PM
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The percentage of taxes paid by the rich has gone up by 50% in 50 years!
--------------------------------------------------------------
It gets tiring debunking the repeated lies. They're either complete morons or lying evil bastards, neither is good.

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666063 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/12/2013 2:40 PM
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Sorry, Miss Keeler, those are not effective tax rates. The effective tax rate is the rate you actually pay on your taxable income. You find your annual effective rate by dividing the tax you paid in the year by your taxable income for the year.

Please...for your sake...get edumacated.

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Author: SooozFool Three stars, 500 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666103 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/12/2013 9:44 PM
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EdithKeeler and jwiest are referring to the highest marginal tax rates, which are, in fact, much lower now than they were when we enjoyed great economic growth in the 50s and 60s.

The rich pay more in taxes now, but they control far more of the nation's wealth than they did then. Barring a super-race of remarkably smart and productive wealthy folk (were their predecessors 50 years ago so much dumber or less productive?), this just means the rich are richer than they were in comparative terms 50 years ago. Guess what that means about how much of the nation's wealth is held by everyone else compared to 50 years ago?

And yet some advocate for squeezing the bottom quintiles harder for taxes, because a maximum 39 percent marginal tax rate is so hard for today's richer Richie Rich (paying an effective tax rate of 13 percent or so) to bear.

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Author: TheDope1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666108 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/12/2013 10:18 PM
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EdithKeeler and jwiest are referring to the highest marginal tax rates, which are, in fact, much lower now than they were when we enjoyed great economic growth in the 50s and 60s.

That's nice. Are you arguing that high tax rates caused great growth in the 50's and 60's?

The rich pay more in taxes now, but they control far more of the nation's wealth than they did then. Barring a super-race of remarkably smart and productive wealthy folk (were their predecessors 50 years ago so much dumber or less productive?), this just means the rich are richer than they were in comparative terms 50 years ago. Guess what that means about how much of the nation's wealth is held by everyone else compared to 50 years ago?

And yet some advocate for squeezing the bottom quintiles harder for taxes, because a maximum 39 percent marginal tax rate is so hard for today's richer Richie Rich (paying an effective tax rate of 13 percent or so) to bear.


It's irrelevant how much wealth anyone holds. If I own a Cadillac and the guy next to me owns a Ferrari, what's the difference?

The fact of the matter is this: the rich pay more proportionately now than they have in years and at the same time the poor pay less.

The biggest problem we have is a misperception of what American standard of living should be like: in the 1950's the rest of the world was recovering from a global war that devastated every major industrial power...except us. Expecting the kind of growth and standard of living to continue forward at that rate is unrealistic.

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666109 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/12/2013 10:20 PM
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S-fool:"EdithKeeler and jwiest are referring to the highest marginal tax rates, which are, in fact, much lower now than they were when we enjoyed great economic growth in the 50s and 60s."

But what little Edith and j-wiest aren't telling you is that back then, the rich only paid 60% of all INCOME taxes.....and now they pay 90% of all INCOME taxes

-------


S-fool"The rich pay more in taxes now, but they control far more of the nation's wealth than they did then."


Oh, there you go again. "Wealth Envy">......

So you don't like the fact that Steve Jobs, one of a dozen or so super entreprenuers, made himself and Apple Shareholders filthy rich? YOU MEAN YOU DIDN"T OWN APPLE STOCK? Oh, poor little you.

Or the fact that Bill Gates is a gazillionaire and you aren't. And you are envious of 'his wealth'? And you didn't buy MSFT stock when it came out and got rich? Or Oracle stock and Larry Elision? Too bad.

Once again...you've got bad 'wealth envy'.

Notice that you didn't even say ... far more of the nation's INCOME.....

it's always about wealth envy!

-------------

S-Fool:" Barring a super-race of remarkably smart and productive wealthy folk (were their predecessors 50 years ago so much dumber or less productive?), this just means the rich are richer than they were in comparative terms 50 years ago."

really? Ever hear of the Rockerfellers? And 100 years ago, there were tycoons even 'richer' than those in the 50s.

ANd you don't think Sears and Roebuck and MOntgomery WArd spawned families of 'rich folks'?

gimme a break...

We got a 20 year old kid who started FAcebook and turned into a gazillionaire. Started with near zero...and made out...

ANd we got others...Twitter....Gazinga, imaging and more dot.com type stuff than you can shake a stick at. Game folks. Lots of new millionaires.

You libs always have problems with a constant size pie. Folks are moving into the 'rich' category all the time. And falling out of it, too. YOu never seem to mention that, right?

Plus we got these movie stars who show up out of nowhere, make $30 million a movie....buy $50,000,000 million mansions....

Same for football and NBA 'stars'....20 million signing bonus. Oh, the 'wealth'...you must be really upset, right? All those new millionaires year after year after year.


---------




S-Fool:" Guess what that means about how much of the nation's wealth is held by everyone else compared to 50 years ago?"

Ah..now you admit it's wealth envy!...plain and simple.

We don't have a 'wealth tax'. We have an income tax. Kapisch?

You got wealth envy. Libs...see money, want it. Want private property to give to others. Seniors own their home, while 'poor people' don't. You want their houses, right? EVEN if they live on SS, you see their 'wealth'....want it.



S-fool:"And yet some advocate for squeezing the bottom quintiles harder for taxes, because a maximum 39 percent marginal tax rate is so hard for today's richer Richie Rich (paying an effective tax rate of 13 percent or so) to bear."

Well, be happy that Romney paid 14%...he could have paid less. and your bud Buffet probably only paid 14% or less. That's the law.

You libs never understand the RISK involved in investing. YOU GOT A JOB< YOU GOT 100% chance of getting paid and getting paid what you are due.

You buy a stock, you could lose your shirt tomorrow. Big difference. Or you could make 20%. BUt it is YOUR money at risk. You just don't understand risk......

typical libs....see wealth want it...see income...want it....

You won't be happy till you have 100% tax rates....work, the gov't takes your check and maybe barely gives you enough to live on while 10 freeloading weenies get their EBT cards from your paycheck.



t.

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666110 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/12/2013 10:29 PM
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"The biggest problem we have is a misperception of what American standard of living should be like: in the 1950's the rest of the world was recovering from a global war that devastated every major industrial power...except us. Expecting the kind of growth and standard of living to continue forward at that rate is unrealistic. "

Heck in the 50s....there

1) No cellphones. you had a black rotary dial phone from Ma Bell. Period. YOu could not buy your own phone. Touch Tone was a buck a month more - real money then. More than the minimum wage for an hour.


2) No internet and no charges to connect. Zip

3) No pay TV or cable TV or satellite.

4) No VCRs or movie rentals or REd Box or Netflix. none.

5) Most homes didn't have a dishwasher and few had a clothes dryer.

6) No one had a microwave.

7) YOU DIN"T have 'fast food'. Our family NEVER ate out. Maybe once every 5 years for a special occasion.....or on a vacation trip on occasion.....and all food was cooked from scratch. No meals in a box..... TV dinners were just starting and they were bad news.


8) THere wsn't much stuff to spend your money on! NO pizza delivery. I never had a pizza till I went off to college at age 18.

So.....it's almost meaningless to compare 1960s living....where it did take a much bigger chunk of your paycheck for food.....and where it did take a much bigger chunk of your paycheck for cars (they crapped out after five years).....than now.

You got it easy. All sorts of conveniences, info at your command....but more ways to spend your money.

Our poor 'people' live better than 3 billion people on the planet, yet they moan and groan. Maybe they should try living in Togo for a year?
or India or rural China

t.

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Author: 307wolverine Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666111 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/12/2013 10:37 PM
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I remember an abundance of small diners. The main drag where I live had a few of them. Nowadays a bank, a Walgreens, and a vacant field now occupy those spots. All towns in America can tell a similar story.

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Author: 307wolverine Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666112 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/12/2013 10:57 PM
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I remember when the first Mickey D's opened up in town. The line of cars was so long that cops had to direct and reroute traffic. I remember when they put up the "over one billion served". I couldn't envision a billion hamburgers. Only a few options available too: hamburger, cheesesburger, fries, shakes, milk, and Cokes.

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Author: TheDope1 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666113 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/12/2013 11:01 PM
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I think a lot of the left vs. right debate in this country would vanish overnight if the political left knew anything about economics.

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Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/12/2013 11:13 PM
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But The Left doesn't want a clue. Fantasyland is more desirable than reality.

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Author: CM001 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666115 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/12/2013 11:15 PM
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What was the one that Mitt did disclose? 14%?

Mitt had to stop taking deductions because he promised at least 14%. Of course increasing the marginal tax rate is so bad... fiscal cliff... my foot.

The fact is the taxes went up on 98% of americans and the rich, wealthy retained all their deductions and this tax rates changed nothing.

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Author: CM001 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666116 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/12/2013 11:16 PM
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The percentage of taxes paid by the rich has gone up by 50% in 50 years!

I am sure you know their share of wealth had also gone wayyyyyy up. Ofcourse you don't want to mention that because it is inconvenient.

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666125 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/13/2013 12:11 AM
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Guess what that means about how much of the nation's wealth is held by everyone else compared to 50 years ago? And yet some advocate for squeezing the bottom quintiles harder for taxes, because a maximum 39 percent marginal tax rate is so hard for today's richer Richie Rich (paying an effective tax rate of 13 percent or so) to bear.

Mr. President, the worst thing you’ve done is you sent a message to America in your re-election campaign that we live in a zero-sum universe. There is a fixed amount of good things. Life is a pizza. If some people have too many slices, other people have to eat the pizza box. You had no answer to Mitt Romney’s argument for more pizza parlors baking more pizzas. The solution to our problems, you said, is redistribution of the pizzas we’ve got—with low-cost, government-subsidized pepperoni somehow materializing as the result of higher taxes on pizza-parlor owners.

In this zero-sum universe there is only so much happiness. The idea is that if we wipe the smile off the faces of people with prosperous businesses and successful careers, that will make the rest of us grin.

There is only so much money. The people who have money are hogging it. The way for the rest of us to get money is to turn the hogs into bacon. The evil of zero-sum thinking and redistributive politics has nothing to do with which things are taken or to whom those things are given or what the sum of zero things is supposed to be. The evil lies in denying people the right, the means, and, indeed, the duty to make more things. ~P. J. O'Rourke

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Author: lowstudent Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666143 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/13/2013 8:23 AM
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I think a lot of the left vs. right debate in this country would vanish overnight if the political left knew anything about economics.
________________________________________

LOL, or if the few on the right who do seem to know it, could make an argument that sounded like they both knew about it and meant it.

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Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/13/2013 10:10 AM
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CM001:"I am sure you know their share of wealth had also gone wayyyyyy up. Ofcourse you don't want to mention that because it is inconvenient."

As always, it's the lib 'wealth envy' whine.


We don't have 'wealth taxes'. YOu are not taxed on your assets.


You are taxed ONLY on income.

When will libs learn that, instead of their cry baby 'wealth envy'?

Libs see Warren Buffet with 50 billion...see Bill Gates with 50 billion...but of course, ignore all the Hollywood elites and their tens of billions....... and get upset that Bill Gates started a whole industry employing 2 or 3 million people.....and get upset that Steve Jobs gave them their darling iPhones and likely 5 million jobs.....

But no.....just because Bill Gates got rich....and they didn't because they lived in their parents basements playing video games and taking lib art courses like in Womyn's Gender studies..... they have massive 'wealth envy'.

They're hopeless.

Every argument is back to 'wealth envy' that they come up with.


t.



t.

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Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/13/2013 10:15 AM
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"Guess what that means about how much of the nation's wealth is held by everyone else compared to 50 years ago? And yet some advocate for squeezing the bottom quintiles harder for taxes, because a maximum 39 percent marginal tax rate is so hard for today's richer Richie Rich (paying an effective tax rate of 13 percent or so) to bear."


Pure wealth envy.


We don't have a wealth tax and never had.

We have an income tax. Based upon 'taking risk' with people's own money.

that's the law.

Get over your little bitty baby , living in the basement, lib wealth envy rant.....

With libs, it's always 'wealth envy'. they got and I don't is the lib wealth envy baby pleas....whaaa! Whaaa!.....they got money and I don't....whaaa! whaaaa!.....

I thought you libs loved Obama and when he said 'everyone should have some skin in the game', you didn't figure that everyone should be paying some tax? Heh heh.......

And why shouldn't folks be paying tax for the infrastructure they use? For the schools and colleges they use? for the defense of the country that keeps them safe from terrorists? WHAT GIVES THEM THE RIGHT TO DEMAND OTHERS PROVIDE THOSE SERVICES FOR THEM?

oh well....

libs are hopeless.


t.

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Author: CM001 Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666169 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/13/2013 11:13 AM
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As always, it's the lib 'wealth envy' whine.
I pointed you ommitted an important point in cherry picking. You cannot answer that. That's okay. It is a very old playbook.

When you have nothing to argue, you start bashing the other person and get personal.

You keep doing that and sure you will win over everyone with your argument.

Good luck.

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666172 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/13/2013 11:22 AM
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CM001 gets upset that his/her neighbor has a Ferrari and he/she only can afford a used Toyota. It's wealth envy 101.

Libs, other than the leaders and Hollywood elites, who seem to get a 'free pass', have big time wealth envy. THey can't stand the fact that some have more than they have. They want, of course, to redistribute it to themselves and others and 'punish' the rich for being 'rich' and 'having wealth'.

Duh...you save and save and invest during your life, and the libs think they are ENTITLED to your savings. While likely they squandered their money away, frittered it away on Starbucks 3 times a day, maybe smoked two packs a day, bought 'energy drinks' at five bucks a pop, and who knows what other expensive hobbies and toys......

then get upset when someone has more than they have.


Sorry, libs......I don't buy your 'they got too much wealth' rant....


t.

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666174 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/13/2013 11:27 AM
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I thought you libs loved Obama and when he said 'everyone should have some skin in the game', you didn't figure that everyone should be paying some tax? Heh heh

Obama's right! Even if you earn only $10,000 per year, send your five bucks to Uncle Sam--ten cents per weekly paycheck! Be a patriot! Engage your citizenship through paying taxes. That means, literally, everyone.

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666175 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/13/2013 11:30 AM
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tele: As always, it's the lib 'wealth envy' whine.

CM001: I pointed you ommitted an important point in cherry picking.

What was that "important point?" I missed it, too.

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666176 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/13/2013 11:33 AM
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Sorry, libs......I don't buy your 'they got too much wealth' rant

How come libs are shutting down state lotteries, where people become instant millionaires for (literally) doing nothing?

Libs need time on a psychologist's couch.

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666177 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/13/2013 11:34 AM
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How come libs are shutting down state lotteries, where people become instant millionaires for (literally) doing nothing?

Should be: How comes libs AREN'T shutting down state lotteries...

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666178 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/13/2013 11:36 AM
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Duh...you save and save and invest during your life, and the libs think they are ENTITLED to your savings. While likely they squandered their money away, frittered it away on Starbucks 3 times a day, maybe smoked two packs a day, bought 'energy drinks' at five bucks a pop, and who knows what other expensive hobbies and toys......

Warren Buffet is a perfect example of someone who has lived in a modest home all his life, worked hard, applied his many gifts, etc.

Unfortunately, Buffet appears to have "wealth guilt."

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Author: jwiest Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666186 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/13/2013 12:09 PM
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The percentage of taxes paid by the rich has gone up by 50% in 50 years!

Of course, you're only talking about income taxes, and this is because the tax burden has shifted. If you look at the total tax pie, it's actually net regressive...rich people pay a lower percentage than poor people do. Mitt Romney's income tax burden was 13%. His "other" burden was almost nothing in comparison. After all, he doesn't eat 250 million times more than everyone else, his tax burden on food, property, fuel, etc is a sand grain in his gold pile.

But you knew all this. As 2828 said, one gets tired of debunking all your lies.

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666188 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/13/2013 12:28 PM
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CC:"Unfortunately, Buffet appears to have "wealth guilt." "

Not really. He wants to tax OTHER gazillionaires income.

He doesn't have a whole lot of income that isn't cap gains/dividends....and what he does have, he donates megabucks to
charity.

After his tax write offs , he is paying little, and of course, he plans on leaving the estate tax man next to nothing, giving away his money before he dies to charity, and the rest through family trusts to his kids.


He might have 'wealth guilt' but he really has no intention of paying lots of taxes.

He wants YOU to pay those big taxes.



t.

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666191 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/13/2013 12:44 PM
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jwiest:"Of course, you're only talking about income taxes, and this is because the tax burden has shifted."


And, dear lib, what other federal taxes on there on people. Of course, we are talking INCOME taxes. We don't have federal taxes on real estate, on cars, on private planes, on your boat or ATV, or your computer.

duh!

--------------


jwiest:" If you look at the total tax pie, it's actually net regressive...rich people pay a lower percentage than poor people do. "

Actually,no. If you take the top 20%, most of them are paying big time income taxes since most of them are WORKING and get salaries of $100,000 or more...and if two in the family work, maybe $200,000 or more, and if in high cost areas like Wash DC, Boston, NYC or SF or LA, they are making $250,000 a year.

And the bottom 48% pay zero income taxes.

I guess you libs are really math challenged. 47-48% of all people pay ZERO income taxes and actually get some back in terms of 'earned income credits' and other nonsense.

Most 'poor' people pay ZERO income taxes. Duh!......

What a silly 'wealth rant' you started. Can't even get your facts straight!...

Worse, if we look at people who actually pay a bit of income taxes......and look at HOW MUCH OF THEIR MONEY IS AT RISK in investments......it is near ZERO once again.

Yep, you work at a job and get a salary you got 100% chance of getting paid. The 'investor' might lose every dime. His/her gains should be taxed at lower rates since money is at risk. You libs never seem to understand that.

------
-------

Jwiest:"Mitt Romney's income tax burden was 13%."

It was 14%. Wrong again

Even worse for you, 47% of people PAID ZERO INCOME taxes.

Your 13 or the correct 14% is 13 or 14% MORE than half the population pays, and likely more than the next 20% pay, for a total of nearly 2/3rds of all taxpayers.

Once again, you whine about the 'poor' and the poor pay ZERO income taxes.

Did it ever occur to you that ZERO is a lot less than 14%?



------

------

jwiest:" After all, he doesn't eat 250 million times more than everyone else, his tax burden on food, property, fuel, etc is a sand grain in his gold pile."

Oh, the seething wealth envy!......

And you haven't a clue as to his tax burden on property. And 250 million times? wow...you've really got a bad case of wealth envy!

Who cares if he makes 10 times or 100 times or 1000 times what Sam Poverty makes? Only wealth envy libs.......

and your language - - 'gold pile' - clearly you have a really bad case of 'wealth envy'.

------

So what if we had a miser who had a stash of 10 million in gold, but only worked six hours a week at the store to get pocket change, and lived on SS...... would you still have wealth envy? and be upset that he probably paid zero income taxes? Of course you would be...

You've got WEALTH envy!


t.

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Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666193 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/13/2013 1:41 PM
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You've got WEALTH envy!

I read a study that said people with wealth envy tend in overwhelming numbers to also have penis envy.

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Author: Art53 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666208 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/13/2013 4:15 PM
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"I read a study that said people with wealth envy tend in overwhelming numbers to also have penis envy." - Josh Randall


God! It's like your psychic or something.


Art

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Author: SooozFool Three stars, 500 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666211 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/13/2013 4:31 PM
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Our poor 'people' live better than 3 billion people on the planet, yet they moan and groan. Maybe they should try living in Togo for a year?
or India or rural China


What you suggest is that the poor learn to be content with their lot because it could be worse.

The rich, however, are held to no such comparative limitations. Can't possibly bring CEO salaries back to those Dark Ages where they made only 25x more than the average worker's salary, instead of 400x more as today's brilliant and deserving CEO's command.

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Author: SooozFool Three stars, 500 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666212 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/13/2013 4:42 PM
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Get over your little bitty baby , living in the basement, lib wealth envy rant.....

Who are you directing that to?

Because that does not describe my living conditions.

I do not have "wealth envy." I am doing just fine, thanks.

What I am is frustrated by people who cannot merely disagree, but must also lie about their opponents and the bases for their views.

If you must lie to make your point, your argument is probably lacking in merit.

Take that observation for what it is worth, coming from someone who is very well paid to argue for a living.

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Author: Art53 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666213 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/13/2013 4:45 PM
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"Can't possibly bring CEO salaries back to those Dark Ages where they made only 25x more than the average worker's salary, instead of 400x more as today's brilliant and deserving CEO's command." - Sooozfool


Do you really believe it's the Federal Government's job to dictate what private for profit companies pay their CEO's? I'm not sure I want the government interfering in private for profit salary negotiations?

I'm fairly liberal on a lot of issues but let's face it, the government has no business dictating salaries for companies. That is a little too close to "central planning" for my liking.

Art

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666214 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/13/2013 4:46 PM
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S-fool:"The rich, however, are held to no such comparative limitations. Can't possibly bring CEO salaries back to those Dark Ages where they made only 25x more than the average worker's salary, instead of 400x more as today's brilliant and deserving CEO's command. "

Once again, it's wealth envy!

And really, you don't think the Kings of old made more than 25x the average workers salary? LOL

or that Carnegie, Rockerfeller, and the rest of them in the late 19th century didn't make 25x more than their 'average worker'?

You definitely need a US history refresher course.


They got fabulously rich. In the process, they gave us coast to coast railroads and transportation to any town, city and burg in the USA . They gave us fuel to start to automotive revolution.


While Europe was in the dark, living with candles, first they gave us kerosene.....and got rich in the process. Then they gave us electricity.....while Europe was in the dark.....and then they gave us the automobile and fuel for it.

And again, you didn't address Bill Gates or Warren Buffet or Steve Jobs or any other of your 400 HOllywood elite 'stars' and their bazillions.

You only attack private enterprise. Duh! wealth envy...nothing but.

Why didn't you go after the NFL stars who make 25x , or is it 100x more than 'regular NFL players'?

Or movie stars who make 10,000 times more than a stage hand ?


Well?

For you, it is 'see a corporation' , hate a corporation. if it isn't government run to a lib, and usually run badly, it's not fair that some make more money......


----

t


Sorry...... if I invented , say , anti-gravity tomorrow, I'd expect to make 10,000 times more than you in the next couple years. Maybe a million times more. And you'd be unhappy, but still buy one of my flying cars for you to tool around in....moaning and groaning about that 'rich' CEO.....


t.

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666215 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/13/2013 4:51 PM
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S-fool""I do not have "wealth envy." I am doing just fine, thanks.

Take that observation for what it is worth, coming from someone who is very well paid to argue for a living. "

-----

heh heh...every previous response from S-fool is dripping with wealth envy.


If you are 'well paid' for what you do, why the heck do you want to give 90% of your money to the government? Oh...you don't? You just want the rich to give 90% of theirs to the government?

or maybe your neighbor has a Ferrari and you only have a Lexus? I dunno....but your wealth envy shows through on every post....it's those 'high paid' CEOs...you obviously don't like.


Then again, "well paid" to argue for a living could involve being paid $14 an hour instead of minimum wage.......I don't know. YOu sure are envious of those CEOs....


t.

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Author: arrete Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666216 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/13/2013 5:08 PM
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For you, it is 'see a corporation' , hate a corporation.
---------------

Unless it's Apple, because thy're cool.

arrete

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Author: lowstudent Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666217 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/13/2013 5:12 PM
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For you, it is 'see a corporation' , hate a corporation.
---------------

Unless it's Apple, because thy're cool.

arrete
___________________________________

I hope you will forgive me, but I think the statement is true.
What you missed IMO, is the psychosis that is the left, they do not see what is there. They see what they are told is there.

When they look at Apple they do not see a corporation, if you do not see it no need to hate it.

It is sort of like Dems on the entire fiscal debate and Obama and compromise they see that Republicans are evil not because they think the Dems are right, but because they just do not see them. They were not told to look, so they are simply not these.

It is impressive and one of the more obvious symptoms of the disease liberal.

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Author: tgrmn Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666218 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/13/2013 5:24 PM
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Wealth, wages, taxes, income creation, entitlement handouts.

What does the pubic skool primary and secondary curiculum say about wealth creation. Or net worth.

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Author: Umm Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666221 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/13/2013 5:49 PM
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"That's nice. Are you arguing that high tax rates caused great growth in the 50's and 60's?"

No. I am pretty sure they are arguing that the higher rates were able to generate government revenue (and therefore decrease debt) without hurting the economy.

"It's irrelevant how much wealth anyone holds."

Just because you declare it irrelevant does not make it so. Perhaps you should just use your other fallback (Fail!) to dismiss an argument you cannot deal with.

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666225 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/13/2013 5:57 PM
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ummm:"
No. I am pretty sure they are arguing that the higher rates were able to generate government revenue (and therefore decrease debt) without hurting the economy."

- - - -

Well, you are mistaken. The 'rich' paid only 60% of all income taxes in the 50s and 60s.

It was the poor working folks who ponied up the other 40%!


Now, the rich are paying 90% of all income taxes and the 'poor' - that is apparently 47%, pay ZERO in income taxes.

You seem to have missed a MAJOR Point...oh, right...libs don't argue facts...just emotions...


When will libs actually get their facts straight about the percentages paid by 'the rich'?

duh!

t

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666230 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/13/2013 6:15 PM
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SooozFool wrote: What I am is frustrated by people who cannot merely disagree, but must also lie about their opponents and the bases for their views.

You're describing yourself. What a riot!

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Author: 2828 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666232 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/13/2013 6:19 PM
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For you, it is 'see a corporation' , hate a corporation.
---------------

Unless it's Apple, because thy're cool.

arrete
--------------
Costco is cool too, Sams Club bad.
Target cool, Wal-Mart bad.
Starbucks cool
Whole Foods way cool.

What other companies are cool and uncool?

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666233 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/13/2013 6:19 PM
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Take that observation for what it is worth, coming from someone who is very well paid to argue for a living."

heh heh...every previous response from S-fool is dripping with wealth envy.

If s/he argues for a living, s/he's likely a lawyer, which is lower on the popularity polls than even politicians. What do you call 1,000 lawyers chained together at the bottom of the ocean? A good start.

I, too, perceive wealth envy. A psychiatrist is in order for SooozFool.

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Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666238 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/13/2013 6:31 PM
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What right do people who make less money have to take by the force of government from those who make more money than they do? That's the essence of liberalism, socialism, left-wing idiocy, and 0bama and his sycophant supporters and mindless minions.

There is no moral justifcation for stealing from some to give to others in the name of charity. It's despicable, worthy of condemnation and based on envy - and is not just or good. Reaching into your own pocket to help the less fortunate is praiseworthy and good.


Compassion Versus Reality

http://www.creators.com/opinion/walter-williams/compassion-v...

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Author: jwiest Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666240 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/13/2013 6:53 PM
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That's nice. Are you arguing that high tax rates caused great growth in the 50's and 60's?

Yes, indirectly. It made more sense to invest locally, in your own company, to offset capital gains taxes. The wealthy paid the burden of infrastructure and education that enabled their wealth in the first place.

It's irrelevant how much wealth anyone holds. If I own a Cadillac and the guy next to me owns a Ferrari, what's the difference?

You can repeat this all you want, it doesn't make it true. There are practical negative effects. Surely you've seen this:

http://www.ted.com/talks/richard_wilkinson.html

You used to be someone who at least respected science and data...

The fact of the matter is this: the rich pay more proportionately now than they have in years and at the same time the poor pay less.

The fact of the matter is that is not true at all. As a proportion of income, the poor pay more in taxes. Not in income taxes, but all taxes. This started under Reagan, when the top rates were lowered, state and local communities had to scramble. Leaving out income taxes plays into a cynical ploy that they are separate issues, when the truth is the socio-economic-behavioral impact is based on the total burden.

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Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/13/2013 7:17 PM
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The fact of the matter is this: the rich pay more proportionately now than they have in years and at the same time the poor pay less.

jwiest wrote: The fact of the matter is that is not true at all.

The essence of the matter is, why should the government take my hard-earned money and give it to someone else who, because either they don't earn as much as me and/or don't even WANT to work as hard as me, makes less?

Yet this is exactly what happens with respect to 47% of working Americans (and illegals) who pay absolutely no FEDERAL INCOME TAX whatsoever.

I'd really like a cogent and persuasive rebuttal to this very simple question.

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666242 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/13/2013 7:19 PM
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And don't say, "Well, they do pay taxes: sales tax, and gas tax, and Federal excise tax, and blah blah blah."

We're talking about federal income tax--the government's largest source of "revenue."

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Author: LuckyDog2002 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666243 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/13/2013 7:25 PM
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what other companies are cool? How 'bout Michael Moore's company....he's a 1%'er himself. Ack!

http://m.nbcnews.com/business/michael-moore-confesses-i-am-1...

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Author: 2828 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666244 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/13/2013 7:58 PM
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The fact of the matter is that is not true at all. As a proportion of income, the poor pay more in taxes. Not in income taxes, but all taxes. This started under Reagan, when the top rates were lowered, state and local communities had to scramble. Leaving out income taxes plays into a cynical ploy that they are separate issues, when the truth is the socio-economic-behavioral impact is based on the total burden.
-------------------------------------------------------
Yawwwwn, How many times we gotta go thru this?

http://www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/2286.html

While many studies answer the ques­tion of who pays taxes in America, the question of who gets the most government spending is often overlooked. Just as some Americans bear a larger portion of the nation's tax burden than others, some Americans also receive a larger share of the nation's government spending.

This report summarizes the key findings of a comprehensive 2007 Tax Foundation study of federal, state and local taxes and government spending. The results show that when we consider the distribution of government spending as well as taxes, it provides a dramatically altered view of how U.S. fiscal policy affects Americans at different income levels than is apparent from the distribution of tax burdens alone.

Overall, we find that America's lowest-earning one-fifth of households received roughly $8.21 in government spending for each dollar of taxes paid in 2004. Households with middle-incomes received $1.30 per tax dollar, and America's highest-earning households received $0.41. Government spending targeted at the lowest-earning 60 percent of U.S. households is larger than what they paid in federal, state and local taxes. In 2004, between $1.03 trillion and $1.53 trillion was redistributed downward from the two highest income quintiles to the three lowest income quintiles through government taxes and spending policy.

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Author: MadCapitalist Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666248 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/13/2013 8:39 PM
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The fact of the matter is that is not true at all. As a proportion of income, the poor pay more in taxes. Not in income taxes, but all taxes. This started under Reagan, when the top rates were lowered, state and local communities had to scramble. Leaving out income taxes plays into a cynical ploy that they are separate issues, when the truth is the socio-economic-behavioral impact is based on the total burden.
-------------------------------------------------------
Yawwwwn, How many times we gotta go thru this?


What we've got here is failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach. So you get what we had here last week, which is the way he wants it. Well, he gets it. I don't like it anymore than you men.

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Author: 307wolverine Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666249 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/13/2013 8:46 PM
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I love it when liberals quote the Bible to justify socialism. They seem oblivious to the mandate to not covet thy neighbor's goods. Everything liberals think, do, or say is just manipulation.

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Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/13/2013 8:56 PM
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A Cool Hand Luke reference. Almost as good as a Doors lyric. Have a rec.

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666251 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/13/2013 9:11 PM
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Maybe the 99% should go after the "awash in wealth and cash," of which Michael Moore certainly has his share, per Moore's own advice?

At 0:48 => http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=661pi6K-8WQ

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Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/13/2013 9:19 PM
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I love it when liberals quote the Bible to justify socialism.

They forget all about how God loves a cheerful giver. Can't be cheerful when it's mandatory; only when giving is voluntary.

Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. 2 Corinthians 9:7

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Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/13/2013 9:19 PM
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The fact of the matter is that is not true at all. As a proportion of income, the poor pay more in taxes. Not in income taxes, but all taxes. This started under Reagan, when the top rates were lowered, state and local communities had to scramble. Leaving out income taxes plays into a cynical ploy that they are separate issues, when the truth is the socio-economic-behavioral impact is based on the total burden.

jwiest


This is a curious assertion, because when federal income tax rates were lowered under Reagan, tax revenue as a percentage of GDP actually increased.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405270230425930457637...

If liberals were logical, they would have been in favor of the Reagan income tax *increase*.

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Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666273 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/13/2013 10:08 PM
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Also, "Thou Shall Not Steal." Libs miss that one big time.

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Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/13/2013 10:11 PM
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They forget all about how God loves a cheerful giver. Can't be cheerful when it's mandatory; only when giving is voluntary.
_______________________________

Boy did you miss on this one CC

Nothing is more cheerful than a giving liberal. There is just something special to them about giving away other folks stuff. But even I admit they seem pretty cheerful whan they get to do it.

The whole trick is to get around that Thou shalt not steal thing, but they figure they make out on a technicality.

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Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/13/2013 10:22 PM
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Even little kids know: ya gotta give from your stash voluntarily.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YQpbzQ6gzs

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666281 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/13/2013 10:22 PM
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jwiest:"The fact of the matter is that is not true at all. As a proportion of income, the poor pay more in taxes. Not in income taxes, but all taxes. This started under Reagan, when the top rates were lowered, state and local communities had to scramble. Leaving out income taxes plays into a cynical ploy that they are separate issues, when the truth is the socio-economic-behavioral impact is based on the total burden. "

THere you go again.


We're talking about INCOME TAXES and tax rates.


Not 'entitlement' programs to which you contribute!....

don't change the subject.

SS doesn't build bridges or infrastructure or provide for the national defense or fund the FDA so you have safe food and medicines!.....not a dime goes there. Nor does SS fund greenie energy projects, food stamps or anything else.



The poor will get back more than 2/3rds of what they put into SS when they retire.....they'll get like 65% of their normal pay. The middle income folks will get back like 50%......and the upper middle class will be lucky to get back 30% of what they pay in. Remember, the government is 'investing' your SS dollars for you.

Remember, SS and Medicare are not 'taxes'. They are contributions to your future use of them when you retire.

That's what the democrats keep telling us, so it must be true!


t.

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Author: lowstudent Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666283 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/13/2013 10:24 PM
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Even little kids know: ya gotta give from your stash voluntarily.

____________________________

We put up with a lot out here, but comparing little kids to liberals is just beyond what should be acceptable.

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Author: jwiest Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666306 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/14/2013 12:51 AM
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This is a curious assertion, because when federal income tax rates were lowered under Reagan, tax revenue as a percentage of GDP actually increased.

Except the debt doubled, creating an illusion of wealth and putting off the day of reckoning.

If liberals were logical, they would have been in favor of the Reagan income tax *increase*.

If "libertarians" were at all economically or ethically consistent, they wouldn't have been in favour of the Reagan tax rate decrease.

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Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/14/2013 2:30 AM
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Umm, your time would be better spent taking your hand out of everyone else's rice bowl and go see a psychiatrist for your classic case of wealthy envy. You'll feel better.


This particular guy stalks me on 3 boards. I find it cute...in a sociopathic kind of way.

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Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/14/2013 2:31 AM
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I guess you libs are really math challenged. 47-48% of all people pay ZERO income taxes and actually get some back in terms of 'earned income credits' and other nonsense. Most 'poor' people pay ZERO income taxes. Duh!

It's really quite incredible that someone could be an American citizen, work here, earn a living no matter how modest, vote, consume the country's resources, collect from the country's treasury, and pay no Federal income taxes--at all.

It boggles the mind.

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Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/14/2013 2:45 AM
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Yes, indirectly. It made more sense to invest locally, in your own company, to offset capital gains taxes. The wealthy paid the burden of infrastructure and education that enabled their wealth in the first place.


Do you think that having a worldwide monopoly on manufacturing capacity might have an effect on wages and standard of living in this country?

You can repeat this all you want, it doesn't make it true. There are practical negative effects. Surely you've seen this:

Actually, no I haven't. Can you summarize? My point still stands until you refute it: If I own a Cadillac and my next door neighbor owns a Ferrari, we both have a car that has 4 wheels and is capable of driving from point A to point B. His may go faster and have cooler features than mine, but both are still CARS and serve the same exact functional purpose.

You used to be someone who at least respected science and data...


So far no one's posted any. PA liberals used to be people who could argue their way out of a paper bag.

The fact of the matter is that is not true at all. As a proportion of income, the poor pay more in taxes. Not in income taxes, but all taxes. This started under Reagan, when the top rates were lowered, state and local communities had to scramble. Leaving out income taxes plays into a cynical ploy that they are separate issues, when the truth is the socio-economic-behavioral impact is based on the total burden.

We're discussing federal income taxes, so IS absolutely true. What state and local communities do is up to...the state and local communities.

You may argue that gas taxes or sales taxes or whatever other taxes are totally regressive and crush the poor, but when these taxes originate from state and local jurisdictions they're completely irrelevant in a discussion about the burden of taxes people pay...to the federal government. You might say, "It's unfair that a person living in New York who is poor has to pay such a high gas tax; federal taxes on wealthy people should be raised so that New York doesn't have to charge as much!", but for your sake I hope you wouldn't, as it's a silly argument on a number of levels.

For one. It's not the fault of somebody living in Idaho or Washington that New York has a high gas tax and it is NOT incumbent on those people to subsidize the choices made by New York voters or pols. Secondly, states have to make their own budgets. Policies that move money around the country to make it simpler for states just create incentives for the states to increase their own spending instead of using their money wisely.

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Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/14/2013 3:01 AM
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This particular guy stalks me on 3 boards. I find it cute...in a sociopathic kind of way.

That makes me feel better. ;-)

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Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666329 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/14/2013 7:31 AM
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Which poster is a stalker? His post got removed to protect the liberal image of tolerance and decency. If you have his address that would be helpful too, we could put such posters on an interactive map. This should make all liberals, at PA and at TMF (I repeat myself) happy and feel all warm and fuzzy.

But seriously, who was the poster that had his post removed in response to dope?

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Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/14/2013 11:15 AM
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My post was removed in response to a certain librul wherein I said (essentially), "Mind your own rice bowl." Apparently, "rice bowl" and "mind your own business" is too incendiary for the delicate flowers at PA. TheDope1 said he experienced the same problem with the certain delicate flower.

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Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/14/2013 11:59 AM
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The fact of the matter is that is not true at all. As a proportion of income, the poor pay more in taxes. Not in income taxes, but all taxes. This started under Reagan, when the top rates were lowered, state and local communities had to scramble. Leaving out income taxes plays into a cynical ploy that they are separate issues, when the truth is the socio-economic-behavioral impact is based on the total burden.

I love the way you libs try to have your cake and eat it too.

You want the feds to make up for the "inequalities" in state/local tax laws to be fair, while arguing elsewhere that tax laws (and other issues such as right to work legislation) between, say, California and Texas aren't important.

Do try to keep up. This thread is about FEDERAL TAXES. The inequalities in state taxes are irrelevant. Asking the federal government to punish the rich to make up for state tax issues is asinine. We aren't addressing it because it's not worth addressing, it's beyond irrelevant. If some poor schmuck doesn't like their tax situation in their city/state then have a pretty clear option: MOVE.

Take Detroit for example. Libs love to blame anything and everything but decades of liberal monopoly there for the woes that have befallen the city. However, they NEVER cite one important fact: Detroit levies a city income tax, which is practically unheard of elsewhere in the state. Hell, there are only a handful of cities that do that (not even Ann Arbor does it!) If you live or work in the city you pay that tax. Yet the city is beyond broke. Why? NOBODY IN THEIR RIGHT MIND WANTS TO LIVE OR WORK THERE! Especially since they have to PAY EXTRA for the honor of living/working in a crime-ridden hellhole run by the most corrupt libtards in existence!

What Republican (or even conservative) is charging the poor souls in Detroit more in taxes? There isn't one, there isn't a conservative that has held any position in Detroit (not even dog catcher) since the 60's! You want the feds to raise taxes on the rich in Oakland County to make up for the poor in Detroit having to pay higher taxes? Bulls**t! Clean up YOUR ideological house! YOU guys are the problem!

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Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/14/2013 12:59 PM
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Actually, no I haven't. Can you summarize?

It would be better if you actually watched it. It's short, and very clear.

But if you insist on not watching: the data shows that inequity between nations is much less important than inequity within nations. Nations that have less than we do, but have lower levels of inequity, fare better on almost every measure...and the really interesting thing is that this "faring better" includes those at the top levels of income. That is, those at the top levels of income in America are worse off than those at the top levels of income in more equitable countries.

Food for thought.

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Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666418 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/14/2013 5:07 PM
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Damn girl, you got skeels!

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Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/14/2013 5:15 PM
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What right do people who make less money have to take by the force of government from those who make more money than they do?

Do you think it is only the poor that slurp from the government trough? Great big chunks of government handouts go to corporate welfare and big investment banks. And what's up with a 15% capital gains tax rate? income is income and needs to be taxed as such with a level playing field for all.

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Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/14/2013 5:37 PM
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Actually, I'm pretty happy with my life. I have a great job, a great family, I live in a great place, and have lots of interesting projects and friends. I'm really happy for the Bill Gates's and Steve Jobs's (RIP, great one) of the world. But unlike you, I actually care about my neighbours, and the viability of society in general. I care whether both my kids and their kids are educated, informed, and have a sense of opportunity.
-------------------------------------------------
You care by wanting us to become more like europe, which has higher unemployment and less opportunity. Do us a favor....stop caring!!!!

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Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/14/2013 6:08 PM
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It's really quite incredible that someone could be an American citizen, work here, earn a living no matter how modest, vote, consume the country's resources, collect from the country's treasury, and pay no Federal income taxes--at all.

It boggles the mind.


First, FICA is a tax on income, so you are flat out wrong, and I think you know it.

Second, who do you have to thank for this? Someone like you -- George W Bush and all the GOP Members of Congress who passed his destructive selfish tax cuts.

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Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/14/2013 6:14 PM
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From my HR Block days there were nine cities in MI that charged a city income tax: Detroit, Saginaw, Flint, Allen Park, Pontiac, Portland, and I'm drawing a blank after that, but the common theme i these are our poorer cities.

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Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/14/2013 6:20 PM
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You care by wanting us to become more like europe, which has higher unemployment and less opportunity.

Only those nations the implemented the same "austerity" measures you want. Everyone else does better. The ol' "socialist europe" canard just demonstrates how out of touch you are with reality, and how locked in you are to your tired worn fantasies.

Do us a favor....stop caring!!!!

Do *us* a favour, start caring about more than yourself.

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Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/14/2013 6:21 PM
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posted:"It's really quite incredible that someone could be an American citizen, work here, earn a living no matter how modest, vote, consume the country's resources, collect from the country's treasury, and pay no Federal income taxes--at all.

It boggles the mind.


---
JOelCairo's comment: "First, FICA is a tax on income, so you are flat out wrong, and I think you know it.

Second, who do you have to thank for this? Someone like you -- George W Bush and all the GOP Members of Congress who passed his destructive selfish tax cuts. "



well, there he goes again!

1) FICA is a tax on reported EARNED income, not 'income'. It does not apply to interest on your bank CDs, on interest from your bonds, on stock dividends or mutual fund distributions or capital gains on investments. or on SS disability payments for the 'so called disabled'..the ever increasing welfare weenie and queenie crowd going on SS disability after 99 weeks of unemployment.

So he is wrong once again. And I assumes he means FICA 1......there are two separate FICAs....the second one for Medicare.

2) Second - the 2% tax 'holiday' on the SS withholding.....was passed under.....guess what?.....Barack Hussein Obama and the drones!...... it was part of the failed 'stimulus' (porkulus).....

So he is wrong once again. He's trying to blame Bush yet again!


I have no idea why he keeps showing up here and demonstrating how wrong hie is time and time again.

t.

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Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/14/2013 6:22 PM
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NYC has a couple percent city income tax...like 3%


t.

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Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/14/2013 6:24 PM
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http://www.michigan.gov/taxes/0,4676,7-238-43715-153955--F,0...

I was wrong on Allen Park and there are more than I remember.

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Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/14/2013 6:26 PM
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"You care by wanting us to become more like europe, which has higher unemployment and less opportunity."


Absolutely true.

Since companies can't layoff workers when times get tough...they don't hire them in the first place.

Less opportunity.


In France and Spain, they have 'contract workers' to get around it.....and they get hardly any benefits.....and still have to pay the massive taxes to the government, plus of course, the 20% Value ADded tax on anything they buy or consume in the way of goods and services. I think its 10% on food....

jwiest said:"Only those nations the implemented the same "austerity" measures you want."

Hah...Sweden, Finland, NOrway.......try getting a job......Germany....Italy....France......they won't hire permanent workers......just 'contract workers' to fill in......

No internet type opportunities. no freelancing....the 'guilds' have everything locked up. You can't sell books unless you belong to the guild. You can't discount them. Not a dime. You can't sell them on the internet. Same for just about everything else from cars to appliances.

Bad news...... but heck, after you pay your 15% 'social tax' on top of your income taxes, your healthcare is 'free'...ha ha..... you're paying 15% of your income for it.




t.

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Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/14/2013 6:54 PM
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FICA is a tax on reported EARNED income, not 'income'. It does not apply to interest on your bank CDs, on interest from your bonds, on stock dividends or mutual fund distributions or capital gains on investments. or on SS disability payments for the 'so called disabled'..the ever increasing welfare weenie and queenie crowd going on SS disability after 99 weeks of unemployment.

Even if paid, it can be refunded by EIC.

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Author: arrete Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666440 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/14/2013 6:57 PM
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Actually, I'm pretty happy with my life. I have a great job, a great family, I live in a great place, and have lots of interesting projects and friends. I'm really happy for the Bill Gates's and Steve Jobs's (RIP, great one) of the world. But unlike you, I actually care about my neighbours
-------------------

I wonder if the grayling has ever taken a partially blind neighbor to the store 3-4 times a week, as well as 1. fished flying squirrels out of her potty, b) taken her up to the vet to have her dog and cat euthanized (different times. No fun.), III. helped with every little "I can't read this; I don't know if it is important, etc.

Yeah. I don't care about my neighbors. RIP, Mrs. F.

arrete

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Author: 307wolverine Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666446 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/14/2013 7:17 PM
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Gotta love it. If I don't slap the shackles of slavery upon myself and my fellow man, I don't care about them. That's all that matters to a lib - feelings.

The end results of the policies are unimportant. Whether they actually do anything for their fellow man, other than demand socialism, is unimportant.

Liberalism is a mental disorder.

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Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666449 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/14/2013 7:24 PM
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I actually care about my neighbours, and the viability of society in general.

Translation: I am very compassionate with other people's money.

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Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666454 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/14/2013 7:48 PM
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It's so much easier to "love" humanity than to love individual human beings where you see need

I read an amusing quote a long time ago related to this, can't recall who wrote it, something like:

I love humanity, it's the people I can't stand.

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Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666456 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/14/2013 7:51 PM
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I found that great philosopher:

http://images.sodahead.com/polls/001898979/334857300_linusis...

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666459 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/14/2013 8:07 PM
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I love humanity, it's the people I can't stand.

Sounds like something from Maxine, whose new book is titled, "Yelling It Like It Is--A Fine Whine With the Queen of Attitude." Here are some Maxine-isms. For instance...

There is no vaccine against stupidity.

http://smg.beta.photobucket.com/user/yawnyyawnson/library/MA...

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Author: lowstudent Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666461 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/14/2013 9:19 PM
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Actually, I'm pretty happy with my life. I have a great job, a great family, I live in a great place, and have lots of interesting projects and friends. I'm really happy for the Bill Gates's and Steve Jobs's (RIP, great one) of the world. But unlike you, I actually care about my neighbours
-------------------

You can tell an Obama supporter by the number of "I"s in describing how he/she cared about other people. At least he/she was good at citing OTHER people for doing things for the people he/she cares so deeply for.

this may actually be up there for quote of the year.

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Author: SooozFool Three stars, 500 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666463 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/14/2013 10:11 PM
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S-fool:"The rich, however, are held to no such comparative limitations. Can't possibly bring CEO salaries back to those Dark Ages where they made only 25x more than the average worker's salary, instead of 400x more as today's brilliant and deserving CEO's command. "

Once again, it's wealth envy!

And really, you don't think the Kings of old made more than 25x the average workers salary? LOL

or that Carnegie, Rockerfeller, and the rest of them in the late 19th century didn't make 25x more than their 'average worker'?


My point was that we had great economic growth in the 50s and 60s despite higher marginal tax rates, particularly on the well-off, and that the well off were not as rich back then as they are now. And now, with much more of the pie under their belts, they're paying lower marginal rates than they did then. And, they're doing so in a time when middle and lower class incomes are stagnating. Those were the points. How you read all that as "wealth envy," I don't know. Reads more like old-fashioned greed to me, and it is a bad prescription for the future economic, social, and political health of the country IMHO.

If you view the Gilded Age as a more positive model, or the age of kings and feudal lords, I wish you luck dragging this consumer-driven economy out of its current stall using one of those models.

You definitely need a US history refresher course.

You need to recall the conditions under which most laborers worked in the robber baron days. I don't think the American people will act like sheep and meekly accept a return to those days, not when we've been asked to subsidize banks and oil companies and pharmaceutical companies and rich farmers and the like with our tax dollars.

They got fabulously rich. In the process, they gave us coast to coast railroads and transportation to any town, city and burg in the USA . They gave us fuel to start to automotive revolution.

Who gave us the interstate highway system, the space program, and the internet? Who expends massive public resources on the defense of foreign oil fields that are indispensable to the automotive revolution free-riding off those defense resources? Where does the framework that produces the necessary workers, and the rule of law that supports this system, come from? Rich folk floating down from heaven? Or the society that has as government that produces the foundation on which it all sits, and which steps in to create and support innovation where the private market fails to do so? I didn't suggest every business function should be nationalized. You shouldn't suggest government's got nothing to do with any of it.

While Europe was in the dark, living with candles, first they gave us kerosene.....and got rich in the process. Then they gave us electricity.....while Europe was in the dark.....and then they gave us the automobile and fuel for it.

Hey!! Didn't you know the Irish invented everything?!? What in the world are you on about? Do you think no technological advances occurred in Europe? That's hilarious.

And again, you didn't address Bill Gates or Warren Buffet or Steve Jobs or any other of your 400 HOllywood elite 'stars' and their bazillions.

You only attack private enterprise. Duh! wealth envy...nothing but.


Well, I didn't know you wanted a comprehensive list of all persons in the top one to two percent of income earners who should be paying substantially higher marginal tax rates. Another reason I wouldn't have mentioned Gates and Buffet or NFL players or starlets is that I didn't get to watch my tax dollars get spent to bail them out in 2008 But okay, for the record, all of 'em who make that much should be paying more in taxes, not just the poor misunderstood and underworshipped, er, underappreciated CEOs you're fond of championing.

For you, it is 'see a corporation' , hate a corporation. if it isn't government run to a lib, and usually run badly, it's not fair that some make more money......

How much do you love *your* cable company?

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Author: SooozFool Three stars, 500 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666466 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/14/2013 10:18 PM
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SooozFool wrote: What I am is frustrated by people who cannot merely disagree, but must also lie about their opponents and the bases for their views.

You're describing yourself. What a riot!


Well then, all the recs you got for repeating that description™ are mine.

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Author: warrl Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666469 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/14/2013 10:45 PM
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jwiest said:"Only those nations the implemented the same "austerity" measures you want."

Europe has implemented "austerity measures" that consist of government spending growing only slightly faster than inflation and population growth would indicate, rather than much faster.

We want "austerity measures" that consist of government spending being decreased in nominal-dollar terms, while government gets out of the way of people doing productive things.

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Author: jwiest Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666472 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/14/2013 11:09 PM
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Then donate!

I do. But charity doesn't make sense for comprehensive education and infrastructure that provides a platform for broad prosperity...you know, like we used to have. It's entirely arbitrary.

Why don't you do something yourself, instead of sitting in your trailer park blaming "lib'ruls" for your vapid and destitute life, waiting for that handout from some rich magnate, or even a relatively a successful person like me?

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666475 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/14/2013 11:47 PM
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s-fool"My point was that we had great economic growth in the 50s and 60s despite higher marginal tax rates, particularly on the well-off, and that the well off were not as rich back then as they are now."

Once again, you have a bad case of 'wealth envy'. BIll Gates started with nothing...and made his fortune. Same with Larry Elision (Oracle) and Warren Buffet started back in the 60s and got rich 'slowly'

Just your choice of words - it's always Rich or the RICH shows your unbridled 'wealth envy'. Not income envy, but wealth envy. As it lib - 'they got it, we want to take it away from them' attitude.
-------


S-fool" And now, with much more of the pie under their belts, they're paying lower marginal rates than they did then."

So you're mad at all the Hollywood movie stars and starlets, and rock singers making bazillions and getting 'rich'?

It's their money. Just how much do you want to bleed them? HUh? It's their money they made, NOT YOUR MONEY.

-------



s-fool:" And, they're doing so in a time when middle and lower class incomes are stagnating."

Well, is that the fault of the rich? Is the janitor or Walmart worker making less because Bill Gates is making more? Is the factory worker making more or less because Steve Jobs got fantastically rich starting an entire new phase of Apple Computer and you can now buy iPhones for a lot less than the first cellphone portables at $7000 each? really?


And again, it is their money. Why shouldn't they keep most of it after they have made it. They don't use the roads any more than you or me when they drive.

------


S-fool:" Reads more like old-fashioned greed to me, and it is a bad prescription for the future economic, social, and political health of the country IMHO."

What? YOu think that Steve Jobs getting fantastically rich, creating a billion dollar industry employing a million people or more in the Apple word doesn't deserve some kind of financial reward, like maybe $1 per iPhone sold?

Or Bill Gates, who created an entire industry , with over a billion users now, with tens of millions of US folks at work in the industry....... doesn't deserve, say a buck a PC using his invention of Windows?

Greed? If you don't like what they are selling, don't buy it!...it's your choice. DOn't buy an iPhone or clone. You'll make the QCOM people happy. They get dollars per phone in royalties. Don't buy a computer using windows. Try some other operating system. Buy a non-smart phone or none at all. Don't shop at Whole Foods or Walmart or Target...you'll make someone 'rich'. or any other store likely. for any product.

You don't have to participate in the free market!.....that's why it is 'free'. No one forces you to buy.

And don't give me the whine of lower and middle class...they live better than just about any country on the planet.

--------


s-fool" If you view the Gilded Age as a more positive model, or the age of kings and feudal lords, I wish you luck dragging this consumer-driven economy out of its current stall using one of those models."

But you libs always point to Cuba - wow...free health care if you can find it, remember to bring your own sheets and bandages and medicines when you go to the hospital....as a socialist paradise where everyone (but the elites) are equal...equality......even distribution of a pittance of income, but equal. In other words, everyone is equally poor. But you libs like that.

---------



s-foolYou need to recall the conditions under which most laborers worked in the robber baron days. I don't think the American people will act like sheep and meekly accept a return to those days,"

You are correct. We are past that point. so? NOw, people have to work 2 or 3 jobs to make ends meet because they spent themselves into debt hell, or are living above their means.

-------




s-fool":Who gave us the interstate highway system, the space program, and the internet?"


Actually, it was some seed money from nearly all working Americans. Back in the 50s and 60s, the 'rich' only paid 40% of all taxes. The rest of the working folks paid the other 60%. Everyone paid some income tax and there were no rebates like Earned Income Credits.

SO it was EVERYONE paying in.

And......those actually had big benefits...(but they put lots of small towns out of business. MOM AND POP business. Kaput. Bypassed by the interstate. Tangible benefits, unlike Obama porkulus that lost us a trillion and did nothing.

THe space program? Again, it was nearly every taxpayer paying in, WHEN WE HAD A BALANCE BUDGET and could afford it!......we weren't borrowing all those dollars, like Obama's porkulus!....

The internet? Heck , it was only 'seed' money that did the internet, and if you were happy with UNIX command lines, that was your internet.

It was private enterprise that brought you Netscape the first browser. ANd without that 'rich' Bill Gates, you'd only have the internet connecting mainframes on college campuses and military installations, right?

The government didn't 'invent' the internet. It spent seed money to develop the 'protocol' stack to do it. That's all. PRivate enterprise did the rest.


------





S-fool:"Hey!! Didn't you know the Irish invented everything?!?"

Hah..Chekov will tell you in Star Trek it was the Russians who invented everything.

------



S-fool"Well, I didn't know you wanted a comprehensive list of all persons in the top one to two percent of income earners who should be paying substantially higher marginal tax rates."

Again, you fail. YOu don't understand capitalism and 'risk' and investment in business.

Back to square one

-------






S-fool" How much do you love *your* cable company? "


Actually, I like them a lot. It's Verizon and I own a nice chunk of Verizon stock. They send me a nice check every three months that pays for ....about 1 year of my Fios service ..each time..........so I like them a lot. I'd rather the bill would be less...but I could go satellite...or now HuluPlus and get a lot of the same programs!.....and soon there will be more competition......and I can get Comcast here too.....

Ain't free enterprise great? In 1960, there were only a few cable TV companies, probably serving well under 200,000 people total in the country - in rural backwoods. Most had 12 channels or less. Then the satellite big dish systems came along with coax cable systems.

After 1990, you started to have internet over the cable.....wow.....fast speeds!.....my first computer whizzed along at 300 bps .....a phone modem on my TRS-80 Model 100....wow!.....and a fast modem was 1200, then 2400 bps. Now its megabits per second....

Remember AOL dialup? And Prodigy? For 10 or 15 a month for 1200 bps? Wowie!...now its 20 bucks a month for 2 megabits/sec. and full time 24/7.

You must live in a little teeny isolated world. It wasn't government that moved speeds from 300 bps to 2 to 100 mbits/sec computer speeds. it wasn't gov't that built the fiber networks and cable networks to 90% of Americans......


t.

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Author: SooozFool Three stars, 500 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666476 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/15/2013 12:08 AM
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You must live in a little teeny isolated world.

No, I don't.

You really need to stop worrying about how I live, and simply try to read and comprehend the written words as posted without making up things that weren't said or meant, capped off with the librul straw-man remarks (tweeeet! Dog whistle!!) that are devoid of any meaning.

BTW, a number of well-off (since you object to "rich") have also said they are undertaxed.

I guess they are envious of their own wealth. They couldn't possibly simply disagree with you.

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666479 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/15/2013 12:45 AM
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We want "austerity measures" that consist of government spending being decreased in nominal-dollar terms, while government gets out of the way of people doing productive things.

"Austerity" is another word for "living below your means"--a popular concept here on the Fool.

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666480 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/15/2013 12:46 AM
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But charity doesn't make sense for comprehensive education and infrastructure that provides a platform for broad prosperity...you know, like we used to have.

You know darn well conservatives aren't opposed to comprehensive education and infrastructure. Now you're just being obtuse.

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666481 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/15/2013 12:48 AM
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BTW, a number of well-off (since you object to "rich") have also said they are undertaxed. I guess they are envious of their own wealth. They couldn't possibly simply disagree with you.

Like who--Warren Buffet? He's got a bad case of wealth guilt, in my opinion.

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666489 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/15/2013 2:41 AM
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I wonder if the grayling has ever taken a partially blind neighbor to the store 3-4 times a week, as well as 1. fished flying squirrels out of her potty, b) taken her up to the vet to have her dog and cat euthanized (different times. No fun.), III. helped with every little "I can't read this; I don't know if it is important, etc.

See, the above, to me, is love--in action. (What a concept!) It's not like embracing an ideology that allows bureaucrats to take your money, redistribute it to who-knows-who, wasting half in the process, and then, because you think that's such a grand idea, continue voting fellow idealogues into office who will proceed to take MY money, too, so all you idealogues can "love" your neighbors. None of which holds a candle to the love in action described above.

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Author: FoolishVintner Three stars, 500 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666492 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/15/2013 3:22 AM
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What Republican (or even conservative) is charging the poor souls in Detroit more in taxes? There isn't one, there isn't a conservative that has held any position in Detroit (not even dog catcher) since the 60's! You want the feds to raise taxes on the rich in Oakland County to make up for the poor in Detroit having to pay higher taxes? Bulls**t! Clean up YOUR ideological house! YOU guys are the problem!

If that were true, why are the red states consistently the most impoverished, the highest in crime, the highest in divorce rates, the highest in teen pregnancy, the highest in drug abuse, the highest in infant mortality, and the highest in welfare dependence?

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Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666494 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/15/2013 7:14 AM
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BTW, a number of well-off (since you object to "rich") have also said they are undertaxed. I guess they are envious of their own wealth.

Buffet, and people like him who think this way should just shut up and write a check to the federal government for the amount that they think they should be paying. No one is stopping them.

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Author: Colovion Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666496 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/15/2013 7:34 AM
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Someone like you -- George W Bush and all the GOP Members of Congress who passed his destructive selfish tax cuts.

Giving the government as little money as possible isn't selfish or destructive... it's a patriotic duty.

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Author: lowstudent Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666497 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/15/2013 7:46 AM
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If that were true, why are the red states consistently the most impoverished, the highest in crime, the highest in divorce rates, the highest in teen pregnancy, the highest in drug abuse, the highest in infant mortality, and the highest in welfare dependence?
_______________________________________________________

Surely, you feel you are an intelligent person. If so you do recognize that the economics that impact this stuff on a state by state basis are an impossible question to address. It has so much to do with decades of infrastructure construction, proximity to resources fro transportation and a load of other factors making states very hard to quantify anything by.

A better question might be, why within both the states doing very poorly and the states doing less poorly, do Dem strongholds with extremely rare exception do incredibly poorly compared to the surrounding areas where the external factors are pretty much the same.

While you want to ask a question, that is essentially why do these areas that have always been poor, remain poor even though they have elected a more responsible alternative than liberal Democrats; perhaps a better question is why have so many cities that have adopted liberal policies become poverty stricken hell holes even though they started with riches and natural advantages.

As a liberal Democrat I can understand why you wish to change the conversation.

Why have places that have never been prosperous under previous governance by both parties not become prosperous under Republican --

is a much better conversation for you than
Why have places that had become prosperous under previous governance of both parties become veritable hell holes on a coast to coast basis under the policies that define today/s liberalism

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Author: Colovion Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666498 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/15/2013 7:58 AM
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Interesting that Detroit, Highland Park and Saginaw are three of the highest taxed cities in Michigan... and some of the poorest cities in the country. Highland Park is absolutely destitute, they rely on Detroit for many of their services! Detroit, well, need not point out the financial mess they're in. Saginaw has a reputation of being nearly as bad as Detroit. Back in the day there were several Michgian Bell workers who would refuse to work there... they kept having their ladders stolen out from under them while they were up working on the poles! My aunt worked for Michigan Bell/SBC until she retired a few years ago.

Anyway, the point is that these liberal enclaves are indeed taxing the poorest residents of the state at the highest rates in the state. It isn't the GOP doing it, good luck finding a GOP politician anywhere NEAR these places! So for liberals to whine that "the poor pay more in taxes when you take them all into account" rings hollow when THEY are the one's imposing this tax burden on the poor!

If I were to be named the Emergency Financial Manager for Detroit the first thing I'd do is get rid of their income tax. Day one, before I had even decided where to put the trash can in my office! Then I'd pull a London, call the downtown area "Detroit" and let the rest of the city revert to the townships they fall in. Viola, the crappiest parts are no longer part of the city, all the businesses that bring in money are, all the land that is worth anything is and without an income tax more businesses would flock to "Detroit Propper". Bank on that. The city wouldn't have to support hundreds of square miles of urban warzone/wilderness (that barely pays any of their taxes anyway). Let it be Wayne County's problem.

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Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/15/2013 8:16 AM
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While you want to ask a question, that is essentially why do these areas that have always been poor, remain poor even though they have elected a more responsible alternative than liberal Democrats; perhaps a better question is why have so many cities that have adopted liberal policies become poverty stricken hell holes even though they started with riches and natural advantages.

But that's just it... Detroit wasn't always poor. In fact for a time it was THE place to go to make money, rivaling New York City itself as the economic capital of the country! All those mansions in Detroit (many of which are collapsing in on themselves and being looted) weren't built for poor people. It was an economic miracle.

But then something happened. Liberalism. Once the "let's be generous with other people's money!" people got ahold of Detroit it all went to hell. That this happened in the 50's and 60's, the very era liberals keep telling us was great because tax rates were so high, is not a coincidence. It's merely proof that liberals are utterly clueless and are a deadly cancer on the prosperity of any place they gain control of.

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Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666501 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/15/2013 8:28 AM
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Someone like you -- George W Bush and all the GOP Members of Congress who passed his destructive selfish tax cuts.

You mean those very tax cuts which 0bama is now taking credit for in preventing the middle class from higher taxes (those holy rates under Clinton)?

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666502 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/15/2013 8:53 AM
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S-fool;"BTW, a number of well-off (since you object to "rich") have also said they are undertaxed.

I guess they are envious of their own wealth. They couldn't possibly simply disagree with you."


You mean the idiot Warren Buffet who complains he isn't 'taxed' enough, yet has the option each and every year to write a nice fat check to the US Treasury, which they will happily accept?

He's nothing but a Obama butt kissing drone.


So are the other Hollywood elites who say they are 'undertaxed' but don't VOLUNTARILY contribute a dime. Most of them have so many legal tax dodges in place that what they are saying is "Tax the rich guy or gal standing next to me".



t.

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Author: lowstudent Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666503 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/15/2013 8:58 AM
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So are the other Hollywood elites who say they are 'undertaxed' but don't VOLUNTARILY contribute a dime. Most of them have so many legal tax dodges in place that what they are saying is "Tax the rich guy or gal standing next to me".

__________________________

I think what they are actually saying is raise the rate, it is good PR-
I know you will take care of me, and keep my deductions in place and build me new ones so you can change the rate to 90 percent again, as long as my payments don't go up do what you have to do to placate the morons who vote liberal based on class warfare arguments. I am not worried about the rich guy next to me, I know you will take care of him too.
DO what you have to do, to get to the wealth of those working stiffs who can't pay you guys off to modify the tax codes. We need their money, it is the only way you guys in government can send money to us.

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Author: telegraph Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666504 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/15/2013 8:59 AM
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"But charity doesn't make sense for comprehensive education and infrastructure that provides a platform for broad prosperity...you know, like we used to have."


You mean like Obama's race to the bottom program? His failed programs one by one, one after another?

comprehensive education? Folks from all around the world come here for higher education, despite their 'wonderful' free national systems. From over 100 countries worldwide to go to Harvard and other places that aren't government run. Especially FEDERAL government run.

Heck, the Khan Institute is doing more for education reform......and the teachers unions hate it, and tens of millions love it. YOu are familiar with it, right? ANd it gets some charity organization grants.

Once again, your back to 'infrastrucutre'...that usually means porkulus these days. We built the interstate. The 'high speed rail' in the US is nothing by titanium plated pork.......hundreds of billions for trains to nowhere. What you libs usually mean is rebuilding water systems and sewer plants that LOCAL people should be paying for, not some farmer in TX paying to rebuilt some MA water system.......

Only when infrastructure is NEW does it add value to the value chain. Not 'rebuilding' existing infrastructure.

You libs always want pork pork pork...trains to nowhere......



t.

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666510 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/15/2013 10:21 AM
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<bIf that were true, why are the red states consistently the most impoverished, the highest in crime, the highest in divorce rates, the highest in teen pregnancy, the highest in drug abuse, the highest in infant mortality, and the highest in welfare dependence?

What a load of crap.

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Author: jwiest Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666511 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/15/2013 10:22 AM
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You know darn well conservatives aren't opposed to comprehensive education and infrastructure.

I know darn well conservatives pay lip services to these ideas, but they do a lot of hand-wringing over mere millions when they're happy to spill trillions into foreign sands. When you tally conservative priorities, comprehensive education and infrastructure are barely on the radar. It's the concerns driven by bed-wetting that dominates.

Now you're just being obtuse.

Claiming one thing and doing another is the conservative way. That's about as obtuse as it gets.

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Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/15/2013 10:24 AM
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Giving the government as little money as possible isn't selfish or destructive... it's a patriotic duty.

"Anyone may arrange his affairs so that his taxes shall be as low as possible; he is not bound to choose that pattern which best pays the treasury. There is not even a patriotic duty to increase one's taxes. Over and over again the Courts have said that there is nothing sinister in so arranging affairs as to keep taxes as low as possible. Everyone does it, rich and poor alike and all do right, for nobody owes any public duty to pay more than the law demands."

Learned Hand (1872-1961), Judge, U. S. Court of Appeals,  in the case of Gregory v. Helvering 69 F.2d 809, 810 (2d Cir. 1934), aff'd, 293 U.S. 465, 55 S.Ct. 266, 79 L.Ed. 596 (1935)

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Author: 2828 Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666514 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/15/2013 10:34 AM
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I know darn well conservatives pay lip services to these ideas, but they do a lot of hand-wringing over mere millions when they're happy to spill trillions into foreign sands. When you tally conservative priorities, comprehensive education and infrastructure are barely on the radar. It's the concerns driven by bed-wetting that dominates.
----------------------------------------------------------
Who killed the DC voucher program? Exactly. Liberals view of education reform is throwing more money at the unions so they get out the vote to keep democrats in office. We can see how that's paying off in Illinois with 200 billion in unfunded pension liabilities.

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666515 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/15/2013 10:35 AM
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I know darn well conservatives pay lip services to these ideas, but they do a lot of hand-wringing over mere millions when they're happy to spill trillions into foreign sands.

The librul now in office has spent the most trillions in one term than all other administrations COMBINED since the founding of our nation.

Why do you exaggerate (lie) so much?

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Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/15/2013 12:02 PM
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Poor jwiest FA'd my posts even though I took great pains to say I wasn't directing my comment specifically to him but to all libruls who haven't got the cajones to admit they drip with wealth envy every day of their sorry lives.

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Author: Jim2B Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666528 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/15/2013 12:09 PM
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Yawwwwn, How many times we gotta go thru this?

http://www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/2286.html


Have you ever noticed that to a PA board zombie (unthinking, mindless shambling shell of a human being), that merely regurgitating something you heard from a liberal talking head counts as:

hard data
logical thinking
common sense

While actually providing links to hard data and then applying logical thinking and common sense counts as the deranged rantings of the lunatic right.

Very reminiscent of the gun-control debate.

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Author: Jim2B Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666532 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/15/2013 12:21 PM
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What Republican (or even conservative) is charging the poor souls in Detroit more in taxes? There isn't one, there isn't a conservative that has held any position in Detroit (not even dog catcher) since the 60's! You want the feds to raise taxes on the rich in Oakland County to make up for the poor in Detroit having to pay higher taxes? Bulls**t! Clean up YOUR ideological house! YOU guys are the problem!

This is the essence of liberalism.

Invent policies based upon pink unicorns pooping rainbows.
When the policy does not achieve its goals, blame republicans for blocking the policy.
Charge republicans more tax money to pay for expanding the program.
When the program goes broke, blame republicans.
Charge republicans more as punishment.
When republicans run out of money, blame republicans.
Try to charge republicans in other regions to pay for the program.

The problem(s) with liberalism:
1) eventually you run out of republicans.
2) programs which fail in small ways when small amounts of money are used are NOT made better by spending more money.
3) reality bites. If you make policy based upon how you want the universe to work, the universe will laugh hysterically while it bites you on the a$$.

No liberal policy will ever work - it is the nature of liberals to ignore reality. It is the nature of reality to ignore liberal wishes.

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Author: Jim2B Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666534 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/15/2013 12:30 PM
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I actually care about my neighbours, and the viability of society in general.

Society is most viable when citizens respect each other and each other's property.

Society breaks down when some people do NOT have respect for other citizen's and their property.

Where do you find examples of each of these:
Society works well in rural areas run by conservatives. Rural areas have high rates of *legal* gun ownership and low rates of violent crime using guns. A criminal breaking into a farm house is highly likely to be shot by the owner who both owns and knows how to use a gun. I shoot varmints many times a year. I will continue to shoot them no matter how many legs they use for ambulation.

Society breaks down in urban areas run by liberals. Urban areas have high rates of gun control laws and low rates of *legal* gun ownership. They have high rates of violent crime using firearms. An armed criminal breaking into a house is likely to encounter a pacified citizen with no weapon or training.

A person among a well-armed citizenry is likely to be a polite citizen or a dead one.

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Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666535 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/15/2013 12:31 PM
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Too much common sense can make a liberal's brain explode.

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Author: lowstudent Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666536 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/15/2013 12:41 PM
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Too much common sense can make a liberal's brain explode.
______________________________

I wish this were true, but essentially all the compressed air in the world won't pop a tire, if there is no input valve.

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Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/15/2013 1:24 PM
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Poor jwiest FA'd my posts even though I took great pains to say I wasn't directing my comment specifically to him but to all libruls who haven't got the cajones to admit they drip with wealth envy every day of their sorry lives.
------------------------------------------------------
Yes, and they say stuff like this:

"What diseased, self-centered, noxious poison you are..."

....and the post stands.

They lovvvve free speech.

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Author: jwiest Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666563 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/15/2013 3:15 PM
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Poor jwiest FA'd my posts even though I took great pains to say I wasn't directing my comment specifically to him but to all libruls who haven't got the cajones to admit they drip with wealth envy every day of their sorry lives.

Sheesh, I did no such thing, I noticed mine got FA'd as well. I haven't FA'd anything since I found an F-bomb somewhere about 4 years ago. I prefer to let things stand.

Anyway, it was probably some "editorially you" conservative who likes to pretend they can take it but actually have a really thin skin...

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Author: CCinOC Big funky green star, 20000 posts Top Recommended Fools Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666571 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/15/2013 3:20 PM
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Anyway, it was probably some "editorially you" conservative who likes to pretend they can take it but actually have a really thin skin...

Why do you say that when a conservative would agree with me? It was a lib, that's for sure.

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Author: lowstudent Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666574 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/15/2013 3:25 PM
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Anyway, it was probably some "editorially you" conservative who likes to pretend they can take it but actually have a really thin skin...

Why do you say that when a conservative would agree with me? It was a lib, that's for sure.

_________________________________

Don't be critical!! Do you have any idea how much progress it shows that they did not blame Bush?

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Author: jwiest Big gold star, 5000 posts Top Recommended Fools Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666575 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/15/2013 3:33 PM
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"Anyway, it was probably some "editorially you" conservative who likes to pretend they can take it but actually have a really thin skin..."

Why do you say that when a conservative would agree with me? It was a lib, that's for sure.

Except mine disappeared too, and a conservative wouldn't agree with me...hmmm...and conservatives are known for their ethical inconsistency and morals of convenience...hmmm...


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Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/15/2013 3:34 PM
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Don't be critical!! Do you have any idea how much progress it shows that they did not blame Bush?

Doh! I didn't think of that. ;-)

Former Obama voters speak about their disgust with Barack Obama. Little steps for little feet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgitGKJCRXY

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Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/15/2013 3:35 PM
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Except mine disappeared too, and a conservative wouldn't agree with me...hmmm...and conservatives are known for their ethical inconsistency and morals of convenience...hmmm...

Well, TMF censors remove the original post [mine] and any replies [yours].

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Author: JoelCairo Big gold star, 5000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666682 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/15/2013 9:52 PM
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Giving the government as little money as possible isn't selfish or destructive... it's a patriotic duty.

Right. Send our kids out to die and force the unborn to pay for it. What kind of deadbeat like that would dare call himself a patriot?

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Author: warrl Big funky green star, 20000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666724 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/16/2013 12:32 AM
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Buffet, and people like him who think this way should just shut up and write a check to the federal government for the amount that they think they should be paying. No one is stopping them.

I don't even insist that they stay shut up. Buffett can mouth off all he wants about how taxes need to be higher - AFTER he writes the check.

(In the real world, of course, he claims that taxes need to be higher while structuring his income in such a way as to keep taxes to a minimum. He also claims that we need high estate taxes while structuring his estate to protect it from the estate taxes already in place. In other words, we need higher taxes on people who aren't Warren Buffett.)

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Author: JoshRandall Big gold star, 5000 posts Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: 666743 of 756947
Subject: Re: Mr. President, the worst thing you've done.. Date: 1/16/2013 5:38 AM
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(In the real world, of course, he claims that taxes need to be higher while structuring his income in such a way as to keep taxes to a minimum. He also claims that we need high estate taxes while structuring his estate to protect it from the estate taxes already in place. In other words, we need higher taxes on people who aren't Warren Buffett.)

Yep. Typical rich liberal hypocrite. Taxes for thee, but not for me.

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