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Author: Imaginistics Big red star, 1000 posts Old School Fool Add to my Favorite Fools Ignore this person (you won't see their posts anymore) Number: of 18379  
Subject: Re: Solar power demand Date: 2/15/2005 3:06 PM
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Mssr. Battle-Axes,

Not merely your name but your demeanor on this board strongly suggest
that no piece of evidence nor any collection thereof will move your
unshakable faith that 'it's all bunk', so I do not expect to change
your mind about anything. For those who put ideological Truth
above mere reality as explained by scientists, there is no hope.
For those who want to hear what science has to say, and have
is the following..

Global warming is real, it's just not got anything to do with humanity.

Followed by

In fact, there are several organizations that disagree. Try the Cato Institute:

I'd hate to shock anyone, but the Cato "Institute" is not, sorry,
a scientific body.

I can't say I've seen anything on globalwarmingconsensusofallscientists.com yet either. Your consensus is bunk and media hype.

How very funny and clever of you Battle-Axes. Now since the Cato institue is not a scientific society, let's turn our attention to
what some scientific experts have to say. Let's see what
the US Geophysical Union has come to conclude, for starters.

"Leaders of one of the nation's top scientific organizations issued a new warning this week that human activities -- most notably the greenhouse gas emissions from power plants and other industries -- are warming Earth's climate at a faster rate than ever.

The statement came from the 28-member council of the American Geophysical Union, whose 41,000 members include more than 10,000 experts on the planet's atmosphere and changing climate.
Thursday, December 18, 2003

You have have also heard of
John Christy, director of the University of Alabama's Earth Systems Science Center frequently touted as a "skeptic". He is cited
in this article as being "Critical" of the (minority) of scientists
who make predictions of "huge" temp increases or "tremendous" sea level rises (in fact it's not a minority but virtually zero: every
article I've seen indicates not "predictions" but observations of higher
risks -- e.g. faster arctic melting -- which make the possibility of
'huge' sea level rises higher than it was before we had this evidence) but even Christy laughs at as idiotic, even nonsensitcal,
the idea that humans don't have to do with it, here it is
in the "climate skeptic's' own words:

"It is scientifically inconceivable that after changing forests into cities, turning millions of acres into farmland, putting massive quantities of soot and dust into the atmosphere and sending quantities of greenhouse gases into the air, that the natural course of climate change hasn't been increased in the past century.'

so there's your actual 'skeptic' (as opposed to fake skeptics
who are paid by ExxonMobil or shills for Cato) have to say.

Of course we are assured that there is no scientific consensus (sounds like a president, "Read my lips, No Scientific Consensus!"
don't it? ;-)

So let's continue, shall we? We've already heard the testimony
of Thomas Karl, director of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric
Administration's National Climatic Data Center,
to Congress, but here's what
he said in a joint
statement..Thomas Karl together with Kevin Trenberth,
head of the Climate Analysis Section at NCAR:


No Doubt of Human Impact on Global Climate, Scientists Say
Industrial emissions are dominant influence on climate change, research shows


the press release you can find on news.google.com states in part,

"There is no doubt that the composition of the atmosphere is changing because of human activities, and today greenhouse gases are the largest human influence on global climate," write Thomas Karl, director of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration's National Climatic Data Center, and Kevin Trenberth, head of the Climate Analysis Section at NCAR.

The scientists conclude that industrial emissions have been the dominant influence on climate change for the past 50 years, overwhelming natural forces. Levels of carbon dioxide, a major greenhouse gas that traps solar radiation and warms the planet, have risen by 31 percent since pre-industrial times -- from 280 parts per million by volume (ppmv) to over 370 ppmv today.


But there is no scientific consensus we are told,
so let's ignore the 10,000 climate experts at the
U.S. Geophysical Union, and let's ignore the conclusions
of the head of the Climate Analysis Section at NCAR
and of the director of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric
Administration's National Climatic Data Center..let try, umm,
how about none other than the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS)?

They note there is "general scientific agreement"

that temperatures are rising as a result of human activities such as fossil-fuel burning, which releases carbon dioxide and other heat-trapping greenhouse gases. This warming has caused glacial melting and subsequent increases in sea levels worldwide of up to 20 centimeters, or 7.8 inches.

That's the general press release from the AAAS itself, the world's largest general scientific society (aaas.org) but
there are also statements from individual distinguished
scientists like
Michael Oppenheimer, professor of geosciences and international affairs at Princeton Universit.

Back to the press release by the AAAS, scientists generally agree that the temperature rise "is as a result of human activities such as fossil fuel burning" so let us move on.

We are told that there is no scientific consensus so we
must now ignore the 10,000 climate experts at the U.S. Geophysical
Union plus ignore the conclusions of the head of the Climate Analysis Section at NCAR
and ignore those of the Director of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric
Administration's National Climatic Data Center, and now we also need
to play monkey "See no evil" and ignore what the world's
largest science body, and certainly among the most distinguished,
the AAAS, has to say. Four not enough? How convenient, So long
as doctrinate Truth is more important than the mere reality
of what just about every major established top expert scientific
body has to say.

Ok, how about the IPCC, the
Inter-Governmental Panel on Climate Change, the largest
open scientific peer review on this issue
and one of the largest
open science peer reviews any scientific topic, ever? Same conclusion: human fossil fuel
burning is a significant factor in the warming. Five not enough?

How about the scientists at the US EPA under George W. Bush?
Same conclusion (circa 2002) by the EPA: Humans are substantially
responsible for the temperature rises. Six not enough?
How about the Bush Administration itself then, under
the signatures of its own top departments, signed
by the Secretary of Commerce and the Secretary of Energy
and by Bush's top Science Advisor all based on reports
and analyses by top science experts?

People are responsible for the spike in global warming in the last 30 years, says a new US government report. The verdict, long accepted by most scientists, has encountered resistance from the Bush administration in the past, prompting experts to question if the president will now enact policies to curb greenhouse gas emissions.

The report, titled Our Changing Planet, is part of a regular series that summarises recent and planned climate change research by 13 government agencies. It was released on Wednesday with a covering letter to Congress signed by the president's secretaries of commerce and energy, along with his science adviser.


[I'll supply url for this one,
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn6334
find the rest yourself, unless you want to grow
up and state you will finally stop the silly denial
if the urls for the rest are furnished]

Re-read those words: People are responsible for the
spike in temperature. What? Seven top sources not enough? More
like 10, given the multiple sources for some of the above. Nothing
will ever convince people like Cato and, I fear, people
like Battle Axes. Cato says it just ain't so and
other flat-earth market Fundamentalists and ExxonMobil
denies it and a handful of Exxon-connected scientists getting paid by ExxonMobil...so never mind the monsterously long list
above, never mind the overwhelming list above, after
all, hey, there's only the top most expert scientists on
the planet, what they hell do THEY know?!?!? Listen
to Cato instead! And to Rush! And Liddy! That's the ticket!

One can find less prestigious sources than the AAAS e.g.
""There has been a strong warming trend over the past 30 years, a trend that has been shown to be due primarily to increasing greenhouse gases in the atmosphere," said James Hansen of NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies in a recent story you can find
via news.google.com and so on...nothing will change their
minds, those who have fixed upon their fundamentalist
pre-conclusions. Let those who do have open minds
take the above as a wake up call. And let history
record that those who made the denials, did so without
being able to plead ignorance of the consensus
of the top scientific bodies of the world had to
say; they'll have to find some other pathetic excuse
to explain their "humans ain't got nothing to do
with it" mantras designed to keep business as usual
going and which will keep society going towards the brink, nice
job...
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